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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 09:57 PM
Original message
Do we need Wes Clark's plan for Iraq?
The introduction to Clark's plan seems to have been updated in 2005. The original plan was developed/published in 2003. My question is, should we try this (or some form of it)?

As this was Clark's proposed public policy, I don't think copyright rules apply.


http://securingamerica.com/issues/iraqplan

By Gen. (ret.) Wesley Clark
Washington Post Op-ed
Unabridged Version
August 26, 2005

<snipped>

Meanwhile, on the military track, security on the ground is poor, not only in terms of suicide bombing but more importantly, in terms of protection of life and property for ordinary Iraqis. The US armed forces still haven't received the resources, restructuring and guidance adequate for the magnitude of the task. Why, in June, 2005, over two year into the mission of training Iraqi forces, was the President announcing such "new steps" as partnering with Iraqi units, establishing "transition teams" to work with Iraqi units, or training Iraqi Ministries to conduct anti-terrorist operations? There's nothing new about any of this – just standard nation-building doctrine which we used in Vietnam. Where are the thousands of trained linguists that we need? Where are the flexible, well-resourced, military-led infrastructure development programs to win "hearts and minds?" Where are the smart operations and adequate numbers of forces – US, coalition, or Iraqi –to strengthen control over the borders?

With each passing month other intervening factors compound the difficulties and probably reduce the chances for the mission in Iraq to succeed. The election of an Iranian hardliner makes dialogue with Iran more difficult. Ineffective dealings with Syria probably reduces Assad's leverage in controlling jihadist infiltration into Iraq. Fractionating forces within Iraq have grown stronger, and Iraq's economic infrastructure more fragile. Iraqi patience is wearing thin amidst the continuing violence and hardship in Baghdad. And the apparently growing flow of jihadists in and out of Iraq not only testifies to an increasingly sophisticated insurgency but also a new source of training journeymen to fight against us in the global war on terror. So urgent modification of the strategy is required, before it is too late to do anything other than withdraw..

Adding a diplomatic track to the strategy is a must. The US should form a standing conference of Iraq's neighbors, complete with committees dealing with all the regional economic and political issues, including trade, travel, cross-border infrastructure projects, and, of course, cutting off the infiltration of jihadists. Iraq's neighbors should be asked to assist. This will also provide a better opportunity for meaningful back-door discussions of Iran's nuclear program, Syria's interests in Lebanon, and Turkish interaction with the Kurds in Iraq. The US should tone down its raw rhetoric for US-style democracy as an answer to all problems and instead listen more carefully to the many voices within the region. A public US declaration forswearing permanent bases in Iraq would also be helpful in engaging both regional and Iraqi support at this point.

(more...)

Original Plan
November 6, 2003

When the President flew out to the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln and posed under the banner that read: "Mission Accomplished," he made it clear he did not understand the scope of the mission. We need a success strategy. Only success can honor the sacrifice of so many American men and women; it is only success that will allow Iraq to stand on its own; and it is only success that will allow our soldiers to come home. Early exit means retreat or defeat. Wes Clark has a plan to internationalize the reconstruction, counter the terrorists' guerilla war more effectively, and give Iraqis a greater stake in our own success.

What Do We Do Now?

Wes Clark believes we need to clearly define our mission in Iraq by deciding what constitutes success. Our mission is to create a secure, stable Iraq with a representative government. Only this will make America more secure and enable our troops to come home. Success means that Iraq is strong enough to sustain itself without outside forces but is no longer a threat to its neighbors; that representative government has taken root so Iraq can be a model for democratic hope in the Middle East; and that Iraqi society and the Iraqi economy are healthy enough so that Al Qaeda cannot recruit there.

Wes Clark's strategy for Iraq is guided by the following principles:

  1. End the American monopoly. From the beginning, the Administration has insisted on exclusive control of the Iraqi reconstruction and occupation. This has cost us the financial and military support of other nations and made America a bigger target for terrorists. Ending the American monopoly will change the way this enterprise is viewed -- in Iraq and throughout the world.


    • Re-incorporate our allies. Fixing the Administration's missteps will require skilled diplomacy at the highest levels. Wes Clark recommends calling a summit of leaders from Europe, the United Nations, Japan and the Arab world to launch a new, internationalized effort in Iraq. They will be more willing to help if America works with them on issues they care about: climate change, the International Criminal Court and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.


    • Transform the military operation into a NATO operation. General Abizaid, commander of US forces in the Middle East, would remain in charge of the operation, but he would report to the NATO Council, as General Clark did as commander of NATO forces in Kosovo. With NATO support and U.N. endorsement, we can also expect some Arab countries to step in. Their presence would prove that this is not an American occupation, but an international and regional effort to stabilize Iraq.


  2. Adjust the force mix. The Bush Administration has failed to formulate an effective tactical plan. No such plan will be viable without substantial contributions from military leaders on the ground. Still, Wes Clark would approach the problem as follows:


    • Consider adding troops. Wes Clark believes we should look at whether adding forces will help the effort in Iraq. He would not measure success in Iraq by a reduction in troops or failure by an increase. It's more important to do the job right so all the troops can come home sooner.


    • Adapt to guerilla war. One mistake in Vietnam was trying to use conventional forces to fight an unconventional war. The more unarmored humvees we have, the greater our vulnerability to roadside bombs. We have suffered more losses in routine patrolling and transit than in active counter-insurgency efforts. We need to ensure the right mix of forces to fight a classic guerrilla war. That means more Special Forces and other light forces better suited for counter-insurgency


    • Better use of intelligence resources. To protect our soldiers we must do all we can to find out who's attacking our soldiers. That means better intelligence work and improved relations with the civilian population. Yet intelligence specialists and people who can speak to Iraqis in their own language are scarce. We need to take the linguists and intelligence specialists now involved in the search for WMDs and assign them to our military counter-insurgency efforts. International inspectors are willing and able to take over this mission. We must also augment our intelligence capability with new technologies and better recruitment in the Arab-American community.


    • Train Iraqi security forces, freeing up U.S. troops. We need to empower Iraqis to provide routine security so American soldiers can focus on urgent tasks like counter-insurgency. Wes Clark would implement a comprehensive two-tier plan: train police first, then military.


      • Summon the old Iraqi army for duty at the local level. We need more Iraqi paramilitary units and police at the local level. General Clark will use thorough background checks, generous pay rates, and real political control for Iraqis -- as well as appealing to Iraqis' sense of nationality -- to put Iraqis in charge of basic security, freeing up US soldiers to focus on our most urgent tasks, including counter-insurgency.


      • Reconstitute the Iraqi Army so that it eventually can do the work the occupation force now does - guarding Iraqi borders, keeping order, and fighting insurgents. It will take considerable time to have an Iraqi Army trained enough and integrated enough to do the job.


    • Engage neighbors for better border security. Iraq is now a magnet for every jihadist in the Middle East. Closing the borders requires cooperation from the countries bordering Iraq. But currently, Syria and Iran don't want us to succeed because they fear they are next on our invasion list. Wes Clark recommends engaging Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia with both carrots and sticks. We have serious issues with each of these countries, but closing those borders is the most urgent priority right now. We must show Iraq's neighbors that cooperation with us is in their interest and will help their region.


    • Secure ammunition. Today, hundreds of thousands of tons of ammunition from Saddam's arsenal have yet to be secured, and thousands of shoulder-fired missiles remain at large. Terrorists have used these stockpiles to attack our forces. We should destroy that ammunition immediately or else secure it with surveillance technology and troops from other countries willing to come to Iraq.


  3. Promote information exchange to advance civil society. To encourage the growth of civic organizations, media, neighborhood groups -- and promote reconstruction -- we should open the West to Iraq for exchange programs so that Iraqis who have been isolated for years can see the what the rest of the world does with its economy, schools, health care, media and government.


Preventing Foreign Misadventures Going Forward

  • Promote security through multilateralism. No nation will ever have veto power over our security. But turning our back on our allies makes it harder to protect ourselves and our interests. Despite our overwhelming military, economic and political strength, we cannot pursue Arab-Israeli peace, support reconstruction of Iraq and Afghanistan, deal with the challenges of North Korea, track down Osama bin Laden, fight the global war against terrorism, face the problem of Iran, and return to prosperity in this country, unless we have allies to help us.


  • Modernize international institutions to combat new threats. Wes Clark recommends pursuing a new Atlantic Charter to repair and modernize our security partnership with Europe. The Charter that will define the threats we face in common and demand action from our allies to meet them while offering a promise to act together.


  • Create a new agency for international assistance. Wes Clark believes America should lead the world in addressing the causes of human misery by attacking the problems of poverty, disease, and ethnic conflict with the same energy and skill we have brought to the challenge of warfare. A new agency would combine the existing development efforts of our government with a real budget for research and development, planning and the ability to draw on the new national Civilian Reserves that Wes Clark proposed in his campaign last October. These efforts will reduce the anger and alienation that gives rise to terrorism, and win us more friends and partners around the world. It will be far easier to ask gain international support for our concerns when other countries see us helping them on theirs.

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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. no we do not-- Clark's plan is a plan for staying in Iraq...
...at least for the short term and quite possibly for years. The war against Iraq is illegal-- why should any good person want to continue committing war crimes? The only plan I'm interested in is one that includes immediate withdrawal of ALL American forces.
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lillilbigone Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. We need to get out of Iraq ASAP
Edited on Wed Nov-29-06 10:04 PM by lillilbigone
check out McGovern's plan: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15430.htm

GEORGE McGOVERN: Well, contrary to the President's position, we think it's important to spell out the details of a plan to get us out of this uncontrollable mess in Iraq. We recommend first that our government advise the government of Iraq and advise the American people and the Congress that we’re going to begin a withdrawal next month, December of this year, and we'll have all Americans out of Iraq by June of next year. That's about a six-month span.

We’re not advocating a mad dash to the border, not a stampede or what the critics call “cut and run.” We’re advocating an orderly withdrawal, not the kind of forced withdrawal that took place in Vietnam so many years ago, where we saw the TV pictures of our last survivors there being airlifted off the roof of the embassy.

We also advocate that simultaneously with the American withdrawal, the Iraqi government invite brother Muslim and Arab states to “loan” them, if I can use that word, law enforcement people to try to preserve some degree of order over the next couple of years, and the United States, as the major invader of Iraq, would be expected to pick up some of the cost for maintaining law and order there, but by people in the area, not by American troops.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/15/1459243


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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. that is excellent-- I'd like to see a more rapid time table...
...but in fairness McGovern sets June as an outer boundary, not a target. There is every reason to believe that a withdrawal could be accomplished more quickly.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have a better idea....GET OUT OF IRAQ!
All this notion of "cutting and running" and "we broke therefore we must fix it." is just B.S.! Let's get our soldiers home now. The Democrats must not allow them to stay in Iraq.


John
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. We have to commit to leaving
It removes one of the key recruiting points for the various factions and forces the government to make compromises and call for unity and an end to the violence. Keeping our troops on the front lines has been the biggest obstacle all along. I always thought Clark knew that.
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election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm curious what Hillary's grand plan for Iraq is....
...since she's apparently "the frontrunner," and supposedly will be the savior of the Democratic Party...????
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Hillary is polling and running focus groups right now
to see which is the safest position she can take.
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election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. So true...
And the Hillaristas will simply spout the mantra, "She's doing what she needs to, as a woman, to have a realistic shot at winning the presidency."
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. No, sadly Wes has become a stay the course must succeed
idiot. Too bad. We need to to get out.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. No, no he hasn't
But it's nice to see how easy it is for bullshit to take flight on DU from one big loud lying thread.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think we are past the point of no return in Iraq. We lost the war!
To make matters worse, there is now a possibility of a regional Suni-Shia war, with a Kurdish sideshow to boot!

We must leave Iraq at once, before we are sucked into a larger conflict which no one will win.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. It's going to happen anyway, IG.
We stay? Bloodbath.
We go? Bloodbath.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. When faced with an unwinnable situation, the only alternative is...
to save the armies by bringing them home.

This is not just a military defeat in Iraq, but a major strategic defeat for America in the Middle East.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I couldn't agree more, except that in light of recent
Edited on Wed Nov-29-06 10:53 PM by janx
developments in the region--Cheney meeting with the Saudis, Iraq and Iran meeting, etc.--I think that the situation over there is growing much worse in ways we might not know about yet. We may be tangled up in this cesspool of a situation for years whether we like it or not.
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. A different frame
Clark has said for a long time that "the mission has failed." Iraq will be a fundamentalist country that is anti-American.

He believes that the way out is to be found "outside" not inside Iraq. Once we asked him about the "out now" pressure. He said that as far as can see, his way would get us out as fast, or faster. I'm hoping that he blogs soon so that he can answer some questions. There is this: he wants out.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. unless you're willfully misinforming people, not emphasizing the fact that this is 15 months old
is a big problem.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Actually, a lot of it is close to 3 years old.
Which I state in the second sentence of my post, BTW.

Also, I think there are some very valid diplomatic suggestions in Clark's (2003) plan. In my opinion, he shows a great understanding of the region, of the differing factions, and of what could (and now *has*) happen(ed) as a result of Bush's invasion of Iraq.

Clark, as a former General, is a strategist. I guess, what I expected from others was more of a discussion on the merits of his suggestions instead of the typical "Clark didn't say troops out of Iraq now, so he must be a warmonger!" response.

It's clear to me that no one really reads or listens to his remarks on the situation and understands him. He advocates truly radical ideas (for an ex-military person) in terms of international relations, diplomacy, and peace but all people see is "stay the course." Wesley Clark is NOT advocating "stay the course" at all.

What he is truly advocating is fixing the $hit "we" (Bush, Cheney, et. al) fucked up, forcing Congress to do their jobs in terms of oversight before military appropriations/funding, fostering dialogue and diplomacy in the Middle East (NOT WAR), and guaranteeing the Iraqis that the U.S. will have no permanent base or presence in the region once we've cleaned up the neocon mess.

It's obvious people here feel the mess can't be fixed. I know I do, most of the time and immediate withdrawal sounds like the solution. But, if there *is* a chance that we can fix this $hit, I think we are obligated to. And, I think if anyone has the knowledge, skill, and empathy to correct the Iraqi nightmare, Wesley Clark can do it.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Even if it is three years old, a lot of the reasoning behind it still holds up.
Obviously it is no long a viable plan; there's just been too much decay, too much neglect over the past two years. The guiding principles are the same: fix the country as part of a regional strategy; get local power players to "buy in" to the stablization; talk to everybody except the al-Qaeda nuts; decommission plans for a long-term US presence. But do not just leave and create a power vacuum; that will only get more people killed.

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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Exactly!
If we just leave, that "vacuum" is going to turn into one our biggest national security threats. The same sort of people that flew planes into the Twin Towers in NYC will be ruling the region, not just operating out of some remote little cells. So what? We just leave and hope there isn't another attack imminent on American soil?

The only thing keeping the jihadists at bay is their lack of a permanent base of operation and funding. We leave and they've got it.

Make no mistake, this is all the fault of the neocons and Bush's stupid invasion of Iraq. But as usual, the Rethugs make the deadly messes and we have to come and clean them up. Ignoring or abandoning the problem is not the solution.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. We may disagree more than you know
I don't think Jihadists are gonna take the region over. They always just skim the creeps off the top of some chaotic mess. Afghanistan was a fluke, a backwater. A once-modern state like Iraq will not end up with a Taliban in charge. The most likely faction to take over will be pro-Iranian theocrats, who are hateful, but far far from being jihadists. You don't hear about Shiite suicide bombers.

More likely you'll see Turkey cut off a slice to control (but probably not formally annex), Iran control a section, Syria grab a chunk of the desert, and then the fighting continue in the Baghdad region until another "strong man" comes along and plays Bonoparte. Which is a nice way of saying becomes a second Saddam. Militarists will take it over, not fundies. And they won't be much of a threat to us.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. This plan no longer applies.
and neither will many of the others that have been proposed.

Could it have worked at the time? Of course. But it won't now.

As far as the three posters who have all the answers about Iraq......They are just blowing smoke. They don't have the faintest clue.......except for what sounds good while sitting behind a computer.

So much bullshit, so little time!
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. here....
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. that's good to know....
Does Clark now favor immediate withdrawal from Iraq?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. Clark favors withdrawal from Iraq......
Immediate means what exactly? Yesterday or tomorrow?

I don't think he does. He's looking at the big picture, not just trying to stick his finger up Bush's ass to scream "see, told you so!"

He's leaving that to the teen-agers.

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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. so those of us who want an immediate end to the war against Iraq...
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 09:09 AM by mike_c
...a sizable proportion of the membership of this forum, not to mention most of the peace movement-- are "teenagers" in your estimation?
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I think many aspects of it do apply. Especially replacing American troops with a NATO force.
Additionally, Clark's ideas on multilateralism, a new Atlantic Charter, and engaging Iraq's neighbors diplomatically all see like reasonable and viable suggestions.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. that's just substituting one war criminal for another....
Edited on Wed Nov-29-06 11:15 PM by mike_c
The invasion and occupation of Iraq is an international crime against humanity. Finding someone else to do our dirty work doesn't make it any less criminal.
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shintao Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
27. I HAVE A PLAN


I hate the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, and war in general. I've never seen a war I liked yet. I hate wars. conflicts, mobs, civil wars, riots, gang wars, drug wars, religious wars, World wars, and battles.

Now it wouldn't be right to complain about wars and not have a plan, so I have a plan.

I have a unique plan, a failsafe plan, a plan that has never been tried before, but should be tried tomorrow, a moving plan of people and things, a sweeping plan, an entry idea, an exit stratedgy, a great plan, a good plan, a loving plan, and a plan I planned to get our troops home by Christmas. It is a simple plan, easy plan, quick plan, low cost, high value, long lasting, short grasping, understandable, and damn near damnable in ending the task, ending the hardship, shifting the burden, reducing the load, lifting our hearts, and lowering our blood pressure.

We simply get our troops off foreign soil quickly, escape by any means, and regroup when we all get to America. How's that, huh? Cut & run, escape, and regroup on American soil. Thats a simple plan. It doesn't take to much to envision this great day in American history when I revealed this wonderful plan to you. It's so simple you can write it on the back of a business card.

I like this plan for a lot of reasons. It has a start and an end, it saves lives, gives us a new direction, cuts taxes, raises morale, lowers deaths, joins families, separates enemies, makes friends, and gives us a positive outlook with the world. I can see the troops arriving by every means possible, cars, vans, trucks, wheel barrows, gurneys, wheel chairs, trains, planes, ships, hot air balloons, donkey, horse back, rickshaw, fat womens singing back, and winnebaggo. Whatever it takes, whatever is fastest, whatever gets them here from there in the shortest, quickest, fastest, safest time we can possibly make for them.

What a plan,... it needs a number or name, something to make this simple idea look a lot more complicated than it really is. A name like the B-06 Plan, Screw The World Plan, U R on your own plan, the C U later plan..., I really like this plan. Maybe we shouldn't give it a name, confuse the media, be to quick for Congress, to slow for pin ball wizards, a total surprise, we won't even pull it off in October. They would be expecting another October Surprise but we will fool them this time. We will just call it the plan and pull it off in December.

So the plan is coming to your neighborhoods, be ready, open your doors, wash your windows, take down the yellow ribbons, put up the
American flag, bake an apple pie, shine your shoes, cut your hair, trim your nails, iron a shirt or a dress, wear underware for a change. Clean your yard, wash your car, cut the lawn, hose the streets down, pick up the trash, put down the mat, and show our American troops that we took care of their America while they were gone.

The plan is coming folks, ...it really is.

Just cut & run, escape, regroup on American soil... is only the first part of the plan. A good plan always knows where it is going later, so I know where we are going with this plan. We are going into hibernation for the next 100 years. No more American wars. No more dead troops. No more massive defense budgets. Just Peace. Love. Stillness. Reflecting on life. Fishing a pond. Enjoying the arts, the shows, a real Renaissance of kick back, love thy neighbor, be a good Christian, practice peace, teach your children, have a bar-b-que in the back yard, a street party out front. Learn respect of your Country, its real values. A 100 years of learning what it really is to be a decent American.

Yes folks, the plan is coming and we should start getting ready for it. Spread the word, write it down, write it on overpasses, passing trains, send an email, call a neighbor, tell a friend, whisper to your lover, leave it as a tip, bring it up at the party, put it down on the front porch, take it to college, take it to work, pass it around, pass it back and forth. I think you get the idea.

Peace
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