As I watched Harold Ford today on CNN and then Hardball...

[madfloridian]

I felt that little nagging feeling again that I had before. It is though when he spoke of the DLC of which he is now chairman that it appeared to be its own party, separate from us.

He mentioned on CNN that Obama called him, then on Hardball said he called Obama....but said Obama had agreed to take part. Most of the ones running are DLC, and Ford made clear that Kerry was not DLC any longer. And, Kerry's not running either.

Ford mentioned Vilsack, Dodd, Obama, Hillary, and Wesley Clark, among others. I am waiting for the CNN transcript to come up now, because he mentioned some others.

He is going to be traveling the country, recruiting and working.

This group is the reason we are in Iraq now. They are most likely the reason we won't ever actually leave. I feel funny today about this. He was treated by both Matthews and Blitzer as though he were head of a party, not head of a think tank. It was so odd.

There's a reason Carville did what he did right after the election, calling for Dean to step down and put Ford in his place. It was sending a shot across the bow. It was odd, my hubby thought so, too. My hubby doesn't mince words much more than I do.

He said, hell, they're making it sound like he is head of the effing Democrats! And they were.

I just wrote up some stuff about this group, as it is making me feel uneasy today.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/992

[tularetom]

1. If Ford is as shitty a DLC chairman as he was a candidate

you don't have anything to worry about. They'll be looking for a new chairman in a year.

[partylessinOhio]

2. The kid needs a job and the DLC gave him one.

[wyldwolf]

5. Ford was hardly a "shitty candidate."

[CTLawGuy]

10. He lost in a huge Democratic year

running basically as a Republican

[against all enemies]

12. I guess that means Tennessee sucks, at least to me.

[wyldwolf]

62. He was a black in a red state running as a Republican

[CTLawGuy]

64. With a choice between a Republican and a Dem masquerading as one

people will choose the real one every time, even in red states.

[wyldwolf]

68. a correction and a rebuttal

My previous post should have read, "He was a black in a red state running against a Republican."

As for your reply:

With a choice between a Republican and a Dem masquerading as one people will choose the real one every time, even in red states.

Ridiculous. #1, Ford wasn't masquerading as a Dem. He is one. #2, it certainly isn't up tp the Johnny-come-lately's of the "netroots" and their simon-pure litmus tests to decide what a Democrat is. Your type opposed Dems like Truman at Kennedy and nearly every turn. Finally, #3, even if your miguided (and misquote of Harry Truman) notion were true, there have been many examples of Democrats who the Johnny-come-lately's of the "netroots" have disapproved of that still won their races against Republicans.

Bob Casey.
Joe Lieberman.
Hillary Clinton.

Just examples...

[CTLawGuy]

73. I know he's a Dem

but he's bought into this failed triangulation strategy of "run like a Republican who is not as bad."

As for your examples:

Bob Casey was running against unpopular nutjob Rick Santorum. A bacon sandwich could have beaten him.

Joe Lieberman was re-elected by Republicans (just like how he was elected in the first place) who sold out their own candidate, and he is not even a Democrat anymore.

Hillary Clinton won in NY (who love famous, high profile candidates) against lightweight competition both times.

On the other side, netroots-backed Jim Webb and Jon Tester defeated DCCC-backed primary oppnents in red states and won their general elections.

[wyldwolf]

74. on the contrary

he's bought into this failed triangulation strategy of "run like a Republican who is not as bad."

Triangulation hasn't failed and he didn't run like a Republican.

Bob Casey was running against unpopular nutjob Rick Santorum. A bacon sandwich could have beaten him.

That wasn't a stipulation of your original argument. Are you going to modify it everytime it is found to be flawed?

Joe Lieberman was re-elected by Republicans (just like how he was elected in the first place) who sold out their own candidate, and he is not even a Democrat anymore.

That wasn't a stipulation of your original argument. Are you going to modify it everytime it is found to be flawed?

In addition, you have absolutely NO evidence to suggest Lieberman was elected by Republicans the first time or anytime.

Hillary Clinton won in NY (who love famous, high profile candidates) against lightweight competition both times.

That wasn't a stipulation of your original argument. Are you going to modify it everytime it is found to be flawed? She still won against a Republican.

Your original argument was: With a choice between a Republican and a Dem masquerading as one people will choose the real one every time, even in red states.

But I guess that doesn't include Democrats that Republicans and Independents vote for, Democrats running against unpopular Republicans, Democrats running ins states that love love famous, high profile candidates, conservative Dems who are former Republicans and/or take on a populist tone, Democrats with a vowel in their names, etc.

On the other side, netroots-backed Jim Webb and Jon Tester defeated DCCC-backed primary oppnents in red states and won their general elections.

No they didn't.

[rinsd]

13. He came close to being the very first Black senator from a Southern state

And he was ultimately done in by racism and a sneaky bastard of an ad that insinuated Ford was after white women.

[TankLV]

52. being rabidly anti-gay didn't help either.

fuck him - I for one am GLAD he lost - we don't need his bigoted kind in the halls of government.

Repuke in dem clothing...feh...

[Hippo_Tron]

60. You're talking about a state that passed an anti gay marriage amendment by like 80%

I'm a huge proponent of gay marriage but Tennessee isn't going to be the place where we initiate this fight.

[CTLawGuy]

65. yeah, but he didn't

need to showboat his faux outrage at the NJ gay marriage court decision. But that's all part, along with endorsing Lieberman (I-CT), of his "I'm a republican" shtick.

[Hippo_Tron]

75. The Lieberman endorsement I admit was idiotic

His response to questions about Lieberman should have been "I don't give a damn about what's going on in Connecticut, lets focus on Tennessee" which would've had an added benefit of bashing the northeast, which plays well in the south.

And again, I wish he could downplay his false opposition to gay rights but we're talking about Tennessee.

[bigluckyfeet]

100. Matthews and Blitzer

Treated Ford well because there is no difference between him and a repuke.

[Cha]

21. ..

We"don't have anything to worry about"!

[Jim Sagle]

110. Bull fucking shit. A shitty leader is just what the DLC was looking for - a fake

Democrat who loses elections and gives fake advice intended to make REAL Democrats lose elections as well. Losing is what corporate America pays them for. It's their job.

[PresidentObama]

3. "Most of the ones running are DLC, and Ford made clear that Kerry was not DLC any longer."

Can we confirm this?

It would put to the rest the arguement the other day about whether Kerry was still DLC or not!

[madfloridian]

4. Oh, yes, he said it. It was on CNN. He also said Clark was a member.

He said that on CNN and Hardball. I am watching for the transcript for CNN, but Sit Room is not up yet. He said he wished Kerry the best, rather dismissively.

[madfloridian]

6. Here's a link to the transcripts page for Situation Room

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/sitroom.html

Not up yet.

[FrenchieCat]

30. He didn't say Clark 'was a member"....and he named Edwards as well!

He was saying that there were associated in some kind of way (but didn't much clarify); that's not the same thing, and you are therefore spreading falsehood. what FORD DID DO was to name every single potential or announced candidate INCLUDING EDWARDS! That was his way of saying that most Democrats are associated in some kind of way with the DLC which he was "promoting".

Seems like he put Clark in the same category as Kerry.

I really don't like you misinforming people like this......as though you are the only one that has a TeeVee. :eyes:

I understand clearly Ford's agenda here; attempting to make the DLC look good.

But what is yours? :shrug:

Here's the CNN Transcript!

FORD: Well, there will be opportunities, I think, for him to work with us. I certainly want to work with him on globalization, international terrorism efforts and as the candidates fashion their agenda. Mrs. Clinton is a former head. John Edwards was recognized by the group. Joe Biden has been recognized by the group. Al Gore was one of the former chairs and founders. Bill Richardson the same. Tom Vilsack, a former chairman.

So the DLC has an incredible tradition. Even John Kerry is involved, though he's no longer in it. I wish him the very best. Wes Clark the same way.

There's a strong tradition here of...

BLITZER: So you...

FORD: ... and Chris Dodd, too.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/25/sitroom.01.html

Looks like everyone is named.....Ford probably would have named Kucinich too, but he may have forgotten him.

[Leilani]

101. Frenchie,

Guess you're not getting an answer.

[CarolNYC]

47. Sheesh!

I read the transcript and watched the video at the links you provided and geez, where the heck did you get that Harold Ford said Clark was a member of the DLC?! You sure do hear things a funny way.

Thanks much for providing the links or I'd have the totally wrong idea about what Ford was saying....

[Leilani]

102. It's called smearing with a broad brush

& used by certain posters quite frequently.

[madfloridian]

111. Here's the MSNBC transcript, a portion I posted below.

I guess you did not read it or you would not be so insulting to me.

"FORD: Very easily. Remember, Hillary Clinton, back when she was first lady of Arkansas, took on the issue of education and challenged some of the orthodoxy of our party years ago. Throughout her time in the Senate, she has been a champion, a stalwart for strong national security measures, even measures that take on other orthodoxies in the party that help advance national interest. Even Senator Obama, who‘s reached out—who I‘ve reached out to, rather, to ask if he‘d be willing to look at part of this agenda and the platform that the DLC has, and he has committed to taking a look and seeing how—what ideas may appeal to him. Senator Edward, who has been recognized by the group. Governor Richardson, who has been active in the group. Governor Vilsack, the former chairman. Even Senator Dodd—and I don‘t mean to leave anybody out—General Clark and many other candidates all, all can point to the DLC at some point. Senator Biden, who was recognized by the DLC.

I mean, all of these candidates have some roots in this organization, and we hope not only to give them a home, but to really give them a platform on which to talk about the important issues of day".

I don't see any reason to be ashamed. Many good Dems are and have been members. Why are you guys mad at me and not Ford. You can email him at the DLC....write him.

[Andromeda]

58. He didn't say he wished Kerry the best in a dismissive way.

I saw the interview and I thought Ford was bending over backwards to be fair. Just paraphrasing, but said he was sorry if he forgot to mention everybody's name.

The DLC has a lot of members, past and present. Maybe with Ford as chairman it will become more inclusive. That's the feeling I came away with after seeing the interview.

Why do you feel so uncomfortable? Harold Ford ran a good campaign, I thought. He was the victim of some pretty dirty politics and he handled it with dignity.

[wisteria]

80. Wow, I don't share that view at all. I think they need to be marginalized and

have deminished power. They are not good for the people of this country.

[madfloridian]

84. I think I said I felt odd because it sounded like they were their own party.

And I recently summed up my feelings about the DLC here.

They do worry me a lot. They have hurt our party. The New Dems, which are the DLC were for the war mostly, for the bankruptcy bill, and are not that eager to get us ot of Iraq.

Here is what I wrote.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/992

[TheDebbieDee]

9. Hurry up and make another post, Kerry2008.......

You've got the mark of the devil!

[KoKo]

7. Yes...it was as if the DLC was a separate Party ...it's own AEI...

with such huge influence that Dems have been losing elections since they took control....except for the MIGHTY CLINTONS who sold us a bill of goods that shipped our jobs out, deregulated our Media and managed to throw Dems in the wilderness in the House and Senate for most of their administration and Lose us the Presidency since Bill & Hillary vacated the White House.

What did the Clintons ever do to support Al Gore. I just saw a commercial on CNN this a.m. with Bill and Poppy promoting New Orleans relief! Was this Ad placed to show Bill with Poppy as a message to get Repugs onboard with Hillary's Campaign? It was disgusting. I've not seen that either of them have visited NO's for a Photo Op since they set up their Foundations or whatever for New Orleans Rebuild. :-(

[madfloridian]

8. In 2005 Ford told Imus he might ask Dean to step down as chairman.

Imus: "On another note here, speaking of the Democratic Party, which you are a member of, how's Howard Dean working for you?"

Rep. Harold Ford Jr.: "(Laughing) I won't have him down so many times in Tennessee on the campaign trail with me. He has made some comments as of late that really speak to a lack of understanding I think, of the country, a lack of understanding of faith and values. I'm a Democrat and I'm a God fearing one. I grew up in church. Christianity is not reserved for white males. I think perhaps Governor Dean sometimes gets a little excited at the mouth, and says things that are simply not true. It may reach a point where if he can't find a way to kind of control some of his comments, and temper his comments, it may get to the point where the party may need to look elsewhere for leadership, because he does not speak for me, and I know he does not speak for a majority of Democrats and I dare say Republicans in my home state. I know that other, even Senator Biden and others, have made some stronger comments about him. I look forward to having a chance to sit with him here in the next day or so. I think he's going to be here in Capitol Hill a little later today to meet with us. I want to ask him directly. Can he contain himself in a lot of ways, and what is his thought process in a lot of these issues because it is not representative of where the party is."

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/06/harold_ford_mis.html

When he is on TV, I remember that. Because "I am a Democrat, and I am a God-fearing one. I grew up in church".....just like Harold Ford. I was raised in the church, Harold.

Ford said Dean showed "a lack of understanding of faith and values."

He is not one to judge anyone's faith and values. God did not mean for any of us to do that.

[enough already]

11. "god"

Why do these people think anybody gives a rat's ass about their 'god'?

[PaDem]

14. this guy really bothers me............

Who the hell does he think he is? Moderate Dems like Heath Shuler and Bob Casey and Jim Webb won their campaigns on progressive economic issues and a strong voice against the Iraq War. Harold Ford ran his campaign on the fact that he likes "woman and football". God help us if this guy ever has a position of prominence in our party. Howard Dean speaks for this Evangelical Christian. Harold Ford does not.

[Cha]

22. Dean has more faith and values

in his pinkie than ford does in his whole goddamn body.

[KoKo]

33. Ford was on with Tweety and he mentioned his belief in God

and I wondered why he thought that was appropriate since he was on as the new DLC Chair, except that he said the DLC believes in the values that most Americans believe in and then somewhere at the end of that mentioned his belief in God. To his credit Tweety seemed not impressed.

[Morgana LaFey]

43. What an arrogant little jerk

It really doesn't wear well on him, either. How DARE he even imagine he has any right -- any standing -- to ask Dean to step down. How dare he. What a self-serving ass.

[Guaranteed]

106. Yeah, he's not getting it. nt

[rinsd]

15. Yeah we only picked up House seats in '96, '98, '00

Senate seats in '92 and '00

3 straight Presidential elections

Nothing but loses for as far as the eye can see

:eyes:

[mtnsnake]

16. How exactly did Ford make it clear that Kerry was not DLC any longer?

Did he actually say that?

[madfloridian]

20. From the transcript...and more was said on MSNBC, don't have that yet.

FORD: ... even my friend Senator Obama has called to say hey, he's willing -- not only willing, but wanting to work with us. And we welcome the chance and opportunity to do that.

BLITZER: So is going to come into the DLC umbrella?

FORD: Well, there will be opportunities, I think, for him to work with us. I certainly want to work with him on globalization, international terrorism efforts and as the candidates fashion their agenda. Mrs. Clinton is a former head. John Edwards was recognized by the group. Joe Biden has been recognized by the group. Al Gore was one of the former chairs and founders. Bill Richardson the same. Tom Vilsack, a former chairman.

So the DLC has an incredible tradition. Even John Kerry is involved, though he's no longer in it. I wish him the very best. Wes Clark the same way.

There's a strong tradition here of...

BLITZER: So you...

FORD: ... and Chris Dodd, too.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/25/sitroom.01.html

[mtnsnake]

24. Thanks. The only part that isnt too clear to me is the "Even John Kerry is involved" part

where Ford said this:

Even John Kerry is involved, though he's no longer in it. I wish him the very best.

By "no longer in it", I couldn't figure out if Ford meant Kerry is no longer DLC or no longer a presidential candidate, since just before he said that he was referring to all the Dems who are in the running for the Democratic nod for presidency.

[PresidentObama]

27. As much as I'd like to clear Kerry from the DLC.

I'll agree with mtnsnake. That was very unclear, and doesn't set the record straight on the DU/Kerry/DLC arguement.

It sounded like Harold Ford was saying Kerry's in DLC, but isn't in the 2008 race. And we wish him luck. Yada yada. But it could be vice versa.

I'm not sure, honestly!

But the truth is, either way we know where John Kerry's heart is. And it's not with the DLC!

[karynnj]

26. Little Clarkie mentioned on anothr thread

that she called Kerry's office and was told he is not in the DLC.

I also read that Obama specuifically choose not to be in it when he just joined the Senate - it sounds like the organization may be loosely organized.

(By the way I agree your intrepretation of Ford's comment is logical - he's not very clear. As to Clark, I thought you had to be in office.

[PresidentObama]

29. karynnj, glad to hear Kerrys office clarifyed him/DLC

Finally, the answer :)

[mtnsnake]

38. You know what though, 008...

Nothing is ever final around here for long. :evilgrin:

[PresidentObama]

42. Muwahaha.

That is true }(

[AtomicKitten]

17. I have always liked Harold Ford.

We don't have to agree 100% with a person's political POV to appreciate their worth as a human being. Ford is a good man and I certainly wish him all the best.

[FrenchieCat]

35. I like him too....

He as liberal as Murtha except for Murtha saw the light about a year or so ago on the specific issue of war.

Personally I care more about the outfit called the corporate media that manipulates all of our elections than I do about the :scared: "DLC" boogeyman.

[Andromeda]

59. I agree.

The DLC gets far too much credit, or blame, for everything that happens in the Democratic party.

[Crunchy Frog]

88. I don't care for him myself.

I also don't care for the person(s) on this thread selectively quoting him in such a way as to make Wes Clark look like some kind of boogieman with some sort of special, nefarious link to the DLC.

I'm glad that you posted the actual quote, and set the record straight.:toast:

It's starting to look like the corporate media here on DU. :(

[TankLV]

53. except for his rabid anti-gay homophobia...

I hear hitler was a good watercolorist, too...

[FrenchieCat]

55. True...true....

[AtomicKitten]

56. he's church boy and his audience is a red state

You do the math.

The redder states we took in November were done so by more conservative candidates. So, I wonder if you would prefer running a progressive candidate on principle and losing - or winning with a more conservative candidate and garnering SUBPOENA POWER and setting the agenda that comes with being the majority party in Congress.

His statements on gay issues are definitely conservative, but I think calling him "rabid" and "homophobic" is just a teensy bit of gratuitous exaggeration. But then again I'm a Californian, in San Francisco no less, so I don't have to deal with it. I do sympathize with those Dems living in the rectangular red states in the middle of the country.

Hey, he's not my cup of tea, but he's not bereft of value as a human being. I have an eclectic group of friends so I have a hard time understanding this scorched earth policy of choosing up sides here at DU.

[CTLawGuy]

66. conservatives?

you mean like Jim "This war is flat wrong and poor people are getting screwed" Webb, from VA, or Jon "The Patriot Act is unamerican and I'm not afraid to say so" Tester, from MT.

Could have fooled me.

[CTLawGuy]

67. conservatives?

you mean like Jim "This war is flat wrong and poor people are getting screwed" Webb, from VA, or Jon "The Patriot Act is unamerican and I'm not afraid to say so" Tester, from MT.

Could have fooled me.

[AtomicKitten]

77. I guess I did fool you.

I said "more conservative" which is a modifier phrase, the "more" being a qualifier of "conservative," an adjective, the modifier phrase denoting relativity of the noun "candidate" that it precedes.

I try to say precisely what I mean.

[TankLV]

103. It's so much "fun" to see who makes excuses for unacceptable behavior.

duly noted...

THERE.
ARE.
NO.
EXCUSES.
PERIOD.

"nice" to see you're always so willing to make excuses for the unacceptable...

FUCK FORD.

WE don't need or want him...

[Cameron27]

18. From the article you posted

in another thread, John Edwards is DLC:

The three men who've dominated the last three presidential tickets, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Joseph Lieberman, the DLC's most recent chairman, are all quintessential New Democrats. So are many of the party's rising stars, such as Senator John Edwards of North Carolina; Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana, the DLC's new chairman; and Maryland Lieutenant Governor Kathleen Kennedy Townsend.

http://www.prospect.org/print/V12/7/dreyfuss-r.html

It stated that Gore went to the left, so I doubt he's still DLC, but Edwards' voting record regarding the IWR, the Patriot Act, and his strongly worded speeches warning against Iran's aggression, and supporting Israel's inclusion in NATO, have him squarely in DLC territory.

[madfloridian]

19. That's where the money and the power went for a long time.

Yes, Edwards, Dean, Gore, just about anyone you name was a member.

Many are working to try to change the power base from them and outside of DC. I know I am. I know others who are.

[KoKo]

34. Remember that Edwards is from NC and grew up in SC and

Dems in the South tend to be very conservative. He replaced an extreme RW Agribusiness Pig Farmer in the Senate who was a clone of Jesse Helms. He wouldn't have been elected as a Progressive and there really aren't such people running here in NC as Dems, anyway.

[madfloridian]

23. Here's the video from MSNBC. He sounds like he is running the party.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=dc502eaf-4c84-4d99-a8ef-3d3793d86ccd&f=00&fg=email

He sounds like he is in charge of the party.

[k_jerome]

25. MF, did he actually say Wes Clark was DLC?

i am hoping this is not the case. thanks.

[madfloridian]

28. In the CNN transcript it is vague....but in the MSNBC video it is clear.

You need to watch it. He is only speaking of the DLC when he mentions "General Clark." Those are his words. He is not speaking of those running.

I watched that segment twice. But it makes no sense since Clark does not hold elective office.

About 3:20 into the video, maybe less.

[FrenchieCat]

32. Ford knows that Clark MAY run...which is why he named him along

with everyone else.

A Transcript being vague is kind of ridiculous....either there are words there or there are not. :eyes:

PS. Talking to your BF again?

[madfloridian]

39. No.

Ford is listing people who "all can point to the DLC at some point." He mentions General Clark.

Good Lord, there is no shame to being a member or being connected to the group. Why are some so upset because I mentioned his name?

Nearly all Democrats the last decade are tied to the group. Why do you think we are in a hopeless war?

I think groups like this are great as long as they don't try to run the party. In this case it sounds like Ford is in charge of a party instead of a think tank.

Watch the video, don't take my word. I don't care who was or wasn't. I care who is or isn't.

Your anger at me gets totally out of control.

[FrenchieCat]

45. McCarthyism is dead.....guilt by association is uncivilized and passe

I didn't say that Clark didn't have an article over there.

I'm saying he wasn't a member and Ford didn't say he was...but you did.

I don't need to watch the video....I saw it at the time.

It ain't about anger, it's about folks lying and then acting like they are the angels in the story. That's all. :shrug:

I've raised two girls already.....so I know about keeping control. It's just that I raised my children not to lie. In other words, some of us had good home training, and others should try and get some.

[madfloridian]

48. I have never on this board said anyone was lying.

You had your say.

[janx]

49. Frenchie, in spite of your relations with MF in the past,

I think that in this case she might be warning you about what Ford is trying to insinuate about Clark. It doesn't look good to me. Ford seems to be tossing a lot of names around with abandon.

[FrenchieCat]

50. Well it was a "weird" way of "warning" about Ford....

Considering the actual manner in which MadFlo announced up thread...."He" I guess is Ford....while Clark is named as a member.

"Oh, yes, he said it. It was on CNN. He also said Clark was a member. He said that on CNN and Hardball. I am watching for the transcript for CNN, but Sit Room is not up yet. He said he wished Kerry the best, rather dismissively."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3077951&mesg_id=3077991

I’m not sure if she was doing Clark any favors......cause in not having been born yesterday.....and knowing full well how Madflo feels about the DLC and about Clark, and by extensions Clarkies.....it is hard for me to get out of it what you're interpreting.

Considering the transcript doesn’t read that Ford said that Clark was a member, and in fact Ford mentioned Clark more as a “who else can I name?” and named him after Kerry....and said Gen. Clark too...

It doesn't appear to mean that Clark was at a podium or was by satellite giving a speech in support of all that they are and all that they want to do.

(however, this whole thread does remind me of McCarthyism--Are you, or have you ever been a member, or associated with, or have spoken to, or looked at, or .....)

Anyways....I”ll say What-E-ver.....or else I’ll become the petty one.

Thanks anyways.

[madfloridian]

51. Thank you, janx, you got it.

He just mentioned too many. It was odd he said some were "recognized" by the DLC...such as Edwards. And he said a few were really a part. Where does he get the distinctions.

I could say the sky was blue and I would be a liar because a storm moved in.

I will have my say and not worry about it. The worst thing we can do is not recognize the manipulation of and taking over of our party.

I was reading a post from 2002 here by a guy from NZ. It was going into what a lot of us think. That this corporate takeover that involves losing personal assets and personal freedom is not just in the US but all over the world. Some of the conservatives taking over are just as tied to the religious right as Bush is.

[FrenchieCat]

54. I will agree that it was "odd" that YOU named Clark as a member,

in this thread and attributed it to Ford......when all I saw and all that I read in both transcripts is Ford throwing in the "and the same of Clark" very ambigious line after stating that Kerry was no longer a member....

Also "odd" that you said you had watched it a couple of times...and each time you obviously saw and heard something that really wasn't there because then started this thread and still said that Ford had said something that he hadn't.
that is "odd"! :crazy:

[Guaranteed]

107. He's just trying to associate himself and the DLC with as many big names

as he can. I wouldn't put any stock in what he said.

[FrenchieCat]

31. This whole thread because Ford in attempting to "Boost" the DLC

which is his new job, named every single potential Democratic candidate as having something or other to do with the DLC. He wasn't very specific, just rattled their names; "recognized such and such", and "recognized him too" and Kerry used to be in it (ambigious).....and same with General Clark (what does that really mean, since Clark can't join) last as an afterthought, and now Clark is called a DLC member by Madflo on this paranoid thread? Geeze!

ANd Obama is gonna call him back? Cause even a call means membership, I guess! :shrug:

If no one could figure out that Ford was doing his PR bit, than we are more naive than I thought.

Are these folks supposed to call the DLC now and raise hell?....."How could you have mentioned me in the same breath as Al Gore, Hillary Clinton and John Edwards? How Dare you Mr. Ford?"

This is a lot about nothing.

"Vague transcript"....That's a new one!

[Cameron27]

36. Thanks Frenchie,

I didn't see the program, but I should have realized that Clark couldn't be a member.

Too much spinning in this thread, glad to have the facts show up.

[madfloridian]

37. You need to ask Ford why he mentioned Clark in the video.

Please watch it and make your judgement by what he said.

Don't take my word for it, listen to Ford.

I gave the link to the video, and I said I was wondering.

What one calls truth, another calls spinning.

Watch the video, don't take my word.

[FrenchieCat]

46. Relax....no one is stoopid.

I provided the transcript.....and everyone can read.

[janx]

40. Obama is too smart for this.

Look at what Ford is doing. This is going to be interesting.

[Guaranteed]

108. He should know that this is not a good path to go down.

He's probably going to do just enough to be "friendly" with Ford, and nothing more.

[janx]

41. "The DLC is irrelevant."

Remember that, MF.

[oasis]

44. No DLC, no Iraq war?

:crazy: Beam me up Scottie.

[IndianaGreen]

57. Harold Ford is the puke that endorsed Judas Joe Lieberman over Lamont

and he is now Al From's garden gnome.

[Hippo_Tron]

61. It will be interesting to see what Ford's political future is like

IMO, he completely botched the last debate with Corker and that may have been his downfall just as much as the "call me" ad. That said I'd love to see him get elected statewide in Tennessee because I think breaking the racial barrier in the south even with a conservative like Ford would make it easier for us to compete there in general.

[wyldwolf]

63. There is a portion of the netroots that firmly believe Clark is DLC...

...then there is a portion that emphatically believes he is not. He has never been elected to public office so he can not have ever been a member of the Senate or House New Dem coalition.

The truth is, Clark did meet with the Clintons in 2003 before entering the race, and he has since provided policy advice to the DLC and vice versa (specifically on universal service and Darfur.)

But the question everyone avoids is what constitutes being a member of the DLC?

Simply, you have to pay dues, at which point you are subscribed to their magazine, Blueprint. You are then a member.

Last time I looked, Blueprint had a circulation of 25,000. Considering General Clark has written at least one piece for Blueprint, and began his campaign as on "New Democrat" ideas, I have no doubt Clark is a subscriber, and thus a member.

But that is just how I see things. Maybe YOU see "DLC" defined based on someone's overall ideology.

[xkenx]

70. Whatever the subscription technicalites may be, I guarantee you

the DLC will shill for a number of other candidates before they support Wes Clark. He is far too independent and not beholden to corporate interests or the DLC. If he is nominated it will be on his own, controlled by no one. And the DLC is afraid of that. BTW, if I subscibe to the National Observer or WSJ to read the other side's views, does that make me a Rpeublican? I suppose you could think Clark is a Rethug because he is interviewed on Faux News.

[wyldwolf]

71. I'll answer your question

BTW, if I subscibe to the National Observer or WSJ to read the other side's views, does that make me a Rpeublican?

I can pick up both of those publications on a newstand. Did your subcription to those publications include a membership into the Republican party?

Hey, I didn't create the process. The last time I checked, subscription to Blueprint includes membership in the DLC.

[xkenx]

78. FYI, you can suscribe to Blueprint for $25 w/o joining DLC.

But this isn't about that, is it? Knowing that DLC is negatively regarded on DU, yours' and some others' comments are just attempts to place DLC stripes on Clark. Seems like a Wes Clark candidacy is majorly feared by some other candidates' supporters here. Could this be a smokescreen to knock down Clark because of the IWR votes of HRC and Edwards??

[wyldwolf]

81. If that is so, thank you for the clarification... but...

I'm not trying to place DLC stripes on Clark. And if you were paying attention during the 2004 primaries here, I was/am one of Clark's biggest supporters (and one of the first on DU.)

[kentuck]

69. I believe if he had acted like a "Democrat"...

he may have won his race...? Yes, I know it was in "conservative" Tennessee..

[wyldwolf]

72. How is a "Democrat" suppose to act?

[paulk]

76. from your post

"This group (dlc) is the reason we are in Iraq now."

absolute bullshit.

George W. Bush and the Republican Party are the reason we are in Iraq now.

I can't believe the nonsense you try to spread on this board....

[wisteria]

79. Our party wil never be for the people as long as the DLC are in power,

or even trying to pretend they are.

[Geek_Girl]

82. Harold Ford Sucks I'm glad he lost

The only reason I voted for him was to flip the senate.

I hope a true progressive, not a DLC Dem runs and wins the primaries and the DLC goes away. They're like a cancer in this party.

[Clarkie1]

83. You left Edwards off your list. He mentioned Edwards. nt

[madfloridian]

85. I added it later when I posted from the transcript.

FORD: ... even my friend Senator Obama has called to say hey, he's willing -- not only willing, but wanting to work with us. And we welcome the chance and opportunity to do that.

BLITZER: So is going to come into the DLC umbrella?

FORD: Well, there will be opportunities, I think, for him to work with us. I certainly want to work with him on globalization, international terrorism efforts and as the candidates fashion their agenda. Mrs. Clinton is a former head. John Edwards was recognized by the group. Joe Biden has been recognized by the group. Al Gore was one of the former chairs and founders. Bill Richardson the same. Tom Vilsack, a former chairman.

So the DLC has an incredible tradition. Even John Kerry is involved, though he's no longer in it. I wish him the very best. Wes Clark the same way.

There's a strong tradition here of...

BLITZER: So you...

FORD: ... and Chris Dodd, too.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/25/sitroom.01.html

I am posting the MSNBC transcript next.

[Crunchy Frog]

89. It wasn't part of your agenda for people to see Edward's name

associated with the DLC. It apparently was part of your agenda for people to see Clark's name in that way. Seems pretty simple and straightforward to me.

[madfloridian]

90. Oh, God, please tell me you are kidding me.

I can not believe you thought that. I quite frankly don't give a damn whether anyone is a member of DLC. I do give a damn if they are and pretend they are not. Edwards, Dean we always knew were. Most of us thought Kerry was, but is no longer. Gore cut ties with them when he endorsed Dean.

Sometimes I feel like this place is losing touch with reality.

I post about the group itself, the leaders, like Will Marshall, and Al From. I criticize the way they took over the party.

I do not go after the members except for their votes. I don't care if Clark is or isn't DLC.

But I don't understand why you are mad at me instead of Harold Ford. If you think he is lying, then contact him. Don't kill the messenger.

[Crunchy Frog]

92. I'm sorry, but it fits the pattern of your entire posting history

with respect to Clark.

And I'm disgusted as Hell with Harold Ford, and have been ever since I read his position on the Iraq war. But that was never the issue of my post.

I'm sorry that you have worked so long and so hard to earn so much suspicion for your motives where they pertain to anything you post concerning Clark or his supporters, but that's what you've done, and you are now reaping the result, even as you continue to do it.

It's too bad, because I genuinely find many of your posts to be very interesting and valuable, and I frequently enjoy reading them, and learn alot from them. I think I would really like you as a poster, if it weren't for these strange issues that you seem to have.

[madfloridian]

93. So you judge me only on my feelings about one man.

If that is how it is, so be it.

I noticed no one here suggested seeing if Ford was fudging some names a little.

Hey, I am not concerned. I am who I am. It has been this way since 2003. I have been called Kool-aid drinker, accused of idolatry...hounded, alerted on, and put on ignore by your group. There have been organized attempts to make sure no one responded to my posts.

So if that is what you think, I can't worry about that anymore.

[Crunchy Frog]

94. No, I judge your postings about that man and his supporters

on your feelings about one man. I'm sorry, but am I supposed to ignore your entire posting history and professed feelings when evaluating particular posts or the motives behind them?

I don't know anything about any organized attempts to make sure no one responds to your posts. Whenever I've responded in a friendly way on one of your threads, I have been completely ignored by you. Maybe the way you treat other posters has something to do with the way they respond to you, rather than its being some sort of organized conspiracy against you. Just a thought?

[madfloridian]

96. Wow, go for the jugular. Then ask Ford is he is lying.

I have accepted long ago here that I am not liked. I get told that in every thread.

Talk about taking stuff personally, I have not seen you responding to me...so it has nothing to do with you.

Now, why aren't you mad at Ford for lying? Instead of being mad at me for saying what he said.

[Crunchy Frog]

97. I think this conversation has just about exhausted itself.

I've pretty much said all I have to say for now. You're free to continue complaining about it if it will make you feel better.

I will continue to point out the agenda that I think you are pushing when I see you pushing it.

[madfloridian]

98. Well, thank you for that.

.

[madfloridian]

86. From the MSNBC transcript of Ford's interview.

I think he was tossing around a lot of names pretty freely. I think a lot of folks seem to think I am criticizing individual members. No, I am not. I think those who have roots in the organization, but fail to acknowledge it are wrong. My gripe is that I feel it is like its own party now. I think they should not have such policy power. They are setting the policy completely...the DLC/PPI/Third Way. You can check the policy agenda at the Third Way site, and you will hear those words coming out of the mouth of Howard Dean and every other person on TV.

I think that gives too much power to a think tank. I think the people get a voice. Maybe it will take time, if they don't keep absorbing the honest men into the corrupt DC culture.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16826322/

"MATTHEWS: I guess it‘s a quandary for a lot of people who study politics. How can somebody like Hillary Clinton of New York, who has about a 100 percent ADA rating, a liberal rating, claim to be a centrist?

FORD: Very easily. Remember, Hillary Clinton, back when she was first lady of Arkansas, took on the issue of education and challenged some of the orthodoxy of our party years ago. Throughout her time in the Senate, she has been a champion, a stalwart for strong national security measures, even measures that take on other orthodoxies in the party that help advance national interest. Even Senator Obama, who‘s reached out—who I‘ve reached out to, rather, to ask if he‘d be willing to look at part of this agenda and the platform that the DLC has, and he has committed to taking a look and seeing how—what ideas may appeal to him. Senator Edward, who has been recognized by the group. Governor Richardson, who has been active in the group. Governor Vilsack, the former chairman. Even Senator Dodd—and I don‘t mean to leave anybody out—General Clark and many other candidates all, all can point to the DLC at some point. Senator Biden, who was recognized by the DLC.

I mean, all of these candidates have some roots in this organization, and we hope not only to give them a home, but to really give them a platform on which to talk about the important issues of day".

[madfloridian]

87. Ford blasts GOP for talking too much about religion.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/26/politics/main2400875.shtml

The new head of the leading group of centrist Democrats lashed out Wednesday at what he called the "hypocrisy" of Republicans who overdo their talk about religion.

Harold Ford Jr., the charismatic Tennessee congressman who lost a nasty Senate race last year, on Thursday was named chairman of the Democratic Leadership Council, the party's most influential centrist group.

....."God works in mysterious ways," Ford said. "Some of the nomenclature and jargon that's used by those who invoke faith regularly - compared with some of their actions and behavior and conduct - I think has raised concerns on the part of many that maybe those who preach it the most aren't practicing the most. I pray for all of them, and would hope that they'd be able to find some healing and wholeness in their lives, but that they would also see that maybe they should reflect a little before they go lashing out and attacking others. I think voters get it, too. The hypocrisy on the part of some was so interesting in this last election."

Yes, Harold, perhaps we should quit berating others because they are not religious enough, because they don't speak religiously correctly.

Yes, Harold, I think so.

Imus: "On another note here, speaking of the Democratic Party, which you are a member of, how's Howard Dean working for you?"

Rep. Harold Ford Jr.: "(Laughing) I won't have him down so many times in Tennessee on the campaign trail with me. He has made some comments as of late that really speak to a lack of understanding I think, of the country, a lack of understanding of faith and values. I'm a Democrat and I'm a God fearing one. I grew up in church. Christianity is not reserved for white males. I think perhaps Governor Dean sometimes gets a little excited at the mouth, and says things that are simply not true. It may reach a point where if he can't find a way to kind of control some of his comments, and temper his comments, it may get to the point where the party may need to look elsewhere for leadership, because he does not speak for me, and I know he does not speak for a majority of Democrats and I dare say Republicans in my home state. I know that other, even Senator Biden and others, have made some stronger comments about him. I look forward to having a chance to sit with him here in the next day or so. I think he's going to be here in Capitol Hill a little later today to meet with us. I want to ask him directly. Can he contain himself in a lot of ways, and what is his thought process in a lot of these issues because it is not representative of where the party is."

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/06/harold_ford_mis.html

I think it would be wise for all of us to stop questioning each others' religion. You go first, Harold. Perhaps we all need to stop questioning the faith and values of others.

[madfloridian]

91. Dear Clark supporters...if you don't like what Ford said, contact him.

Not me. I don't care who the members of the group are. I just call attention the way the leaders speak and how the members vote. We should all do that.

I don't care if Clark is DLC. It does not matter to me.

But Ford said it, and you guys are getting upset with me. That makes no sense at all.

He now has contact info at the DLC....write him. Call him.

[Crunchy Frog]

95. And I don't have a problem if Obama attended a madrassa

or if the Hillary camp was responsible for calling people's attention to it. If anybody here does have a problem with it, they should contact Insight Magazine who said it, and not complain about DUers who merely point out what somebody else reported.

I certainly wouldn't expect that anybody would get upset with me if I made a post about it.

[madfloridian]

99. The post was not about Clark, it was about the DLC's new chair.

Are you being a bit reactive here?

My God, is it impossible to mention the general's name?

Talk to Ford, he said it.

[Jennicut]

104. Madfloridian, I believe you really caught on to something

It is so obvious that the DLC will dominate the Dem primaries. I will vote Dem no matter what but and I used to support the DLC about 12 years ago when I was 18 but I grew up and learned that this is no way to run the Dem party. Most DLC'rs take such weak positions on every thing and some members try to keep dissent quiet within the Dem party. Kerry, Dean, and Gore definitely learned a hard lesson about the DLC. Do their bidding and they will support you, be their rivals and speak out strongly against the Iraq war and they will try to destroy you. If Ford is their chairman, are they any better than moderate Rethugs? I do believe we should that moderate to conservative Dems should have a voice in the political system but I do not believe that they should try to suppress others who do not agree with them. I suppose that if Al Gore does not run in 08 then I will have to choose a member of the DLC. It won't be any easy decision. It will be who is least influenced by the DLC.

[madfloridian]

105. Yes, money is still the big factor.

It will be for a long time to come. By forgoing the "traditional loyalists", such as unions and minorities...the DLC was able to get huge financial gains from the corporations. They did not have the party use their words to stand up for people's right.

If you don't care about the people, it is easy to get money.

[Guaranteed]

109. I think they will try. I don't think they'll win, though.

Things have changed.