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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 01:46 AM
Original message
If you haven't read this stuff on authoritarians...
Edited on Sun Sep-30-07 01:59 AM by grasswire
....then you don't fully understand what we are up against. This link is to the book (free on the internet, mods) on which John Dean based his own book on authoritarians.

I urge all DU-ers to read this free e-book. It's accessible psychological research. Fascinating and critical info.

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/Introduction_links.pdf

Here's part of the introduction:


I am going to tell you about my research on authoritarianism, but I am not going to give the kind of technical scientific report I lay on other scientists. Whatever ends up getting crunched in this book, it's not going to be a pile of numbers. Instead, I'll very briefly describe how the studies were done and what then happened. In many cases I'll invite you to pretend you are a subject in an experiment, and ask what you would say or do. I hope you'll generally find the presentation relaxed, conversational, even playful, because that's the way I like
to write--even on serious topics--to the annoyance of many a science editor. (A sense of humor helps a lot when you spend your life studying authoritarians.)

But I have not 'dumbed down' anything. This is not "Authoritarianism for
Dummies." (Six months ago I couldn't even spell 'authoritarian,' and now I are one.) It's an account of some social science research for people who have not sat through a lot of classes on research methods and statistics--a good many of which, it so happens, I also never attended, especially on nice days. I'll put some of the technical mumbo-jumbo in the optional notes for pitiful people such as I who just can't live without it. If you want to bore through even denser presentations of my research, with methodological details and statistical tests jamming things up, the way poor John Dean had to, click here for note 2.

But why should you even bother reading this book? I would offer three reasons.

First, if you are concerned about what has happened in America since a radical right-wing segment of the population began taking control of the government about a dozen years ago, I think you'll find a lot in this book that says your fears are well founded. As many have pointed out, the Republic is once again passing through perilous times. The concept of a constitutional democracy has been under attack--and by the American government no less! The mid-term elections of 2006 give hope that the best values and traditions of the country will ultimately prevail. But it could prove a huge mistake to think that the enemies of freedom and equality have lost the war just because they were recently rebuffed at the polls. I’ll be very much surprised if their leaders don’t frame the setback as a test of the followers’ faith, causing them to redouble their efforts.

They came so close to getting what they want, they’re not likely to pack up and go away without an all-out drive. But even if their leaders cannot find an acceptable presidential candidate for 2008, even if authoritarians play a much diminished role in the next election, even if they temporarily fade from view, they will still be there, aching for a dictatorship that will force their views on everyone. And they will surely be energized again, as they were in 1994, if a new administration infuriates them while carrying out its mandate. The country is not out of danger yet.

The second reason I can offer for reading what follows is that it is not chock full of opinions, but experimental evidence. Liberals have stereotypes about conservatives, and conservatives have stereotypes about liberals. Moderates have stereotypes about both. Anyone who has watched, or been a liberal arguing with a conservative (or vice versa) knows that personal opinion and rhetoric can be had a penny a pound. But all that arguing never seems to get anywhere. Whereas if you set up a fair and square experiment in which people can act nobly, fairly, and with integrity, and you find that most of one group does, and most of another group does not, that’s a fact, not an opinion. And if you keep finding the same thing experiment after experiment, and other people do too, then that’s a body of facts that demands attention.

Some people, we have seen to our dismay, don’t give a hoot what scientific investigation reveals.

But most people do. If the data were fairly gathered and we let them do the talking, we should be on a higher plane than the current, “Sez you!”

The last reason why you might be interested in the hereafter is that you might want more than just facts about authoritarians, but understanding and insight into why they act the way they do. Which is often mind-boggling. How can they revere those who gave their lives defending freedom and then support moves to take that freedom away? How can they go on believing things that have been disconfirmed over and over again, and disbelieve things that are well established? How can they think they are the best people in the world, when so much of what they do ought to show them they are not? Why do their leaders so often turn out to be crooks and hypocrites? Why do the followers accept the flimsy excuses and even obvious lies that their leaders proclaim, and cling to them so dogmatically? Why are both the followers and the leaders so aggressive that hostility is practically their trademark? Why are both so unaffected by the evil they do? By the time you have finished this book, I think you will understand the reasons. All of this, and much more, fit into place once you see what research has uncovered going on in authoritarian minds.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. K & R
I'm willing to bet that none of the people that really need this information will ever read it.
:kick:


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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. DNC strategists? Campaign managers?
Probably not.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Could you check that
link. It doesn't bring up an e-book for me. I would love to read this.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Or me. Please check.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. please re-try
let me know if it works for you now
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yes. Thank you.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Got it now
saved it, printed it and passing it on.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. let's try again
Edited on Sun Sep-30-07 01:58 AM by grasswire
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. Link is not working.
Would love to get a copy.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. try again, please
does it work now? It works for me.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. working now, thanks
very interesting.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'm only on chapter three, but for me already...
...the urgent message is that all strategy needs to be rethought. We are at the mercy of people who, essentially, are without moral compass or conscience in their blind obedience to authority. This explains how Republicans and conservatives could so easily cast off habeas corpus, the rule of law, the doctrine of the separation of powers -- cast them off for a future of certain tyranny.

Things are even worse than I thought. Rational appeals are of no use. Bipartisanship? Ha. Common good? Oboy.

Okay, I'm going back in for more.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. John Dean had a great book last year discussing Authoritarians.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. yes, Dean's book is based on this research
Which makes it even more interesting!
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
14. The link in your post only retrieves the introduction, not the whole book.
Edited on Sun Sep-30-07 02:37 AM by AdHocSolver
The introduction is a little less than 300 KB. The full PDF document is at this link and is about 1.4 MB.

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. On another website explaining what the book The Authoritarians is about I found this description.
Edited on Sun Sep-30-07 02:54 AM by AdHocSolver
(snip)

If, on the other hand, you’re way ahead of me, and believe the extreme right-wing elements in America are poised to take it over, permanently, I think you can still get a lot from this book. The studies explain so much about these people. Yes, the research shows they are very aggressive, but why are they so hostile? Yes, experiments show they are almost totally uninfluenced by reasoning and evidence, but why are they so dogmatic? Yes, studies show the Religious Right has more than its fair share of hypocrites, from top to bottom; but why are they two-faced, and how come one face never notices the other? Yes, their leaders can give the flimsiest of excuses and even outright lies about things they’ve done wrong, but why do the rank-and-file believe them? What happens when authoritarian followers find the authoritarian leaders they crave and start marching together?

I think you’ll find this book “explains a lot.” Many scattered impressions about the enemies of freedom and equality become solidified by science and coherently connected here.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

It also provides links to download the book a chapter at a time, if you have a slow connection.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. Very important article. It puts everything in perspective.
You'll understand why the Constitution means absolutely nothing to them. What we need to do is start identify their cells, because the authoritarian personality is just a general description of a kind of character, or lack of. They crop up everywhere, and our misfortune is that they are all attracted to the same kind of president.

Here's a few I've identified:

Southern gentlemen, and their grunts.
Neo-cons
Oil industry people
Wall Street financiers

The bottom line is that they think they are above the law. And unfortunately, Nancy Pelosi is an enabler, in that regard.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. not just those kinds of people...
...but also those like my older sister. She's a suburban matron, a retired teacher, who is an authoritarian. She informs herself via Rush Limbaugh. I fear people like her, who are smart but willingly accept propaganda because it feeds their instincts. There are a gazillion of them.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. Another link to Altemeyer's book:
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
18. Wow. Fascinating. This isn't something that can be won at the ballot box.
It's about raising the next generation to trust, to cooperate, to think critically....

Excellent and important reading.

Highly recommended.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. the next generation will own people like us...
....if these people aren't stripped of power now. Our grandchildren will be their slaves.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. Thanks for that link!
Edited on Sun Sep-30-07 06:20 AM by pnorman
I just downloaded the book onto my HD, and will study it later.I have that John Dean's book, "Conservatives Without Conscience", but in Audible format. It's about time to listen to it again.

pnorman
On edit: I wasn't sure if I was referring to the same John Dean book mentioned here, so I Googled. It was the same book. Here's one of the Google 'hits': http://writ.lp.findlaw.com/dean/20070905.html It's a three part essay, which I my also download for my PDA.

On further edit: That link only goes to the introduction. Here's the complete book: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
20. I read the introduction.......can't find the rest of the book
What am I doing wrong? This is supposed to be a free e-book, right?
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
21. Here is the link for the whole book
Edited on Sun Sep-30-07 10:46 AM by Th1onein
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

On Edit: A day late and a dollar short. You guys are FAST!
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thanks so much for this!
I've completed the intro and chapter 1, and yes, this is essential reading.

This will take some time to read and absorb, and I'm tempted to skip right on to Chapter 7, "What's to Be Done?".

The question on my mind after chapter 1 is, "when do the psychopaths show up"?. By that, I mean, is there a clear line of demarcation, and if so, where does it occur? (Where does the "banality" of evil differentiate from its source, (or does it)?)

I say that because, the core observations the author details in the first chapter, are, to my thinking, what any reasonably cultivated mind already knows (though doesn't view in as coherent, systematic a fashion as is presented here). Therefor, my operating assumption is that the "string pullers" cannot possibly be unaware, but rather are psychopaths who are all TOO aware, and have long since done the studies, done the numbers, and have refined their methods accordingly, creating false consensus and tipping the scales.

So, I'll be curious to see how that perception squares with what the author presents, though I believe this research is extremely valuable, whether or not, and to what degree, the author embraces a conspiratorial worldview, and regardless of to what degree that worldview is "correct". After all, even if our entire nightmare is 100% the result of malice and premeditation, the ratio of "useful idiots" to "string pullers" is surely on the order of thousands if not millions to one.

Thanks for pointing us to this critical information.

:hi:
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