Obama is anti gay!

[Egnever]

Riiiight!

Every single piece of legislation relating to gays that he has come across in his career so far he has landed on the right side of gay issues and some that he actually proposed himself. But because he invited a popular gospel singer to an event intended to get religious people in the door he must all of a sudden have turned into a gay basher.

I can certainly understand the disdain for mccrackhead but to extend his beliefs to Obama is just ridiculous.

Maybe he should have had a satan worshiper there to draw em in instead or hmm lets see maybe he should have had a drag show and invited the religious community. Yea that would have helped to win them over for sure.

Heres a clue for the more outraged of you. He wants these people to vote democrat so he can get into office and get some of those rights for the gay community that they so richly deserve. None of em are going to call it marriage it would be political suicide to do so.

Why in the world would you ignore every single instance he is on record voting for gay rights and all of a sudden believe he is a homophobe it just defies logic.

Welcome to the DU lunacy bin I guess.

Flame on cant wait to be called a homophobe myself.

[Colobo]

1. Great post, Egnever.

Thanks. You echo my sentiments.

[calteacherguy]

2. Well said! nt.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. For someone without the first clue as to the facts, you have a lot of opinions about it

He publicly allied himself with the "war on the curse of homosexuality" ("Not a war of violence, but a war of purpose" of course) in before playing at the 2004 Republican convention over the protests of the Human Rights Campaign and, coincidentally, the African-American version of the HRC.

I don't see how anyone can read this letter ( http://www.hrc.org/issues/2031.htm ) and say, "Gee, why would this guy be inappropriate for a national democratic candidate's fundraiser?"

When a class of people's identity is said to be "curable" and that we need a war against that identity, and the vessel for that war is George W. Bush in 2004, then it's way over any line I've heard of. Particularly since McClurkin was preaching this war on homosexuality in the midst of the republican party's project of getting gay marriage referenda on ballots in swing states, like Ohio... a wedge issue that may well have cost Kerry the election.

McClurkin is not the harmless ex-gay eccentric the Obama camp has spun him to be. This guy went on the 700 Club and said "we need to take off the gloves and close that school" referring to the Harvey Milk school in New York. And he has also said on the 700 Club that "homosexuals are killing our children"

If he were just some religious guy who thought god cured him of being gay it would be distasteful, but this is a whole different deal. This guy has served as an anti-gay ally of republicans who would genuinely just as soon put GLBT in camps... for real. He has a political activist anti-gay history.

Many on this board supported the HRC call to remove the guy from the Republican convention line-up in 2004, so many folks were genuinely SHOCKED that Obama selected the guy to do the same damn performance at an Obama fundraiser. Actaully, Obama's event was worse, since the guy spoke about his cured staus on stage, not in newpapers or on the 700 club before the performance, as he did in 2004.

If Bush had peddled the inclusion line to defend McClurkin at the RNC convention nobody here would have bought it, so why is it better coming from our own?

It is WORSE coming from our own. The Democratic party is supposed to be a refuge... GLBT don't get gay marriage, but at least they don't get gratuitously spit upon by national democratic candidates... or at least not until recently.

[Egnever]

11. again your problem is with mc' crackhead

I couldn't care less what mccrackhead and his ilk spew.

They are going to spew it no matter who condemns it. Do you seriously believe Obama invited him because he is anti gay? Despite him being on record every single time supporting the gay community?

I totally understand your hatred of Mcrackhead. But trying to transfer that hatred to obama just baffles me. I cant imagine you truly believe Obama went looking for an anti gay singer.

Do you?
Really?

[FredScuttle]

18. It is truly mystifying, isn't it?

Obama had plenty of advance warning that his guy was an "ex-gay" clown who said some horrific things about gays and lesbians in the past. Hell, the HRC got him on the phone and told him in no uncertain terms what he faced if he went ahead with featuring this guy in his concert.

And yet, he proceeded not only to include this clown, he made him MC!

The question is: knowing what he knew, how could Obama insult Democrats of many stripes and orientations by featuring this clown?

Also, why does he have to be a "crackhead"?

[Egnever]

28. And yet he is still

The number 2 or number 1 gospel singer in the country no?

God forbid he books someone popular with the crowd he is targeting.

And he has to be a crackhead cause I dub him so.

Maybe not the best decision for obama when it comes to relations with the gay comunity but hardly puts him in the homophobe camp.

[FredScuttle]

49. Toby Keith is the most popular male country singer in the country

Seems like an obvious choice for a candidate looking for votes in the heartland, no?

Surely Yolanda Adams, Kirk Franklin or one of the Winans were available?

[hisownpetard]

58. Isn't Toby Keith a rabid Republican? nt

[FredScuttle]

62. No, he actually calls himself a conservative Democrat

and by the OP's logic, is a perfect choice for any Democratic candidate hungry enough to pander for Neanderthal votes.

[Egnever]

64. Absolutely!

Bring em in the door and let their minds be opened. I dont give a rats how you do it just wake em up. Cause the vilifying them and ignoring them aint working out so good.

Again do you seriously believe Obama is anti gay despite voting every time in favor of gay issues?

[FredScuttle]

146. Well, Obama is the one that welcomed a homophobe to his campaign

Confusing signal, at best.

[closeupready]

179. I don't think he's homophobic, but he should have cancelled McClurkin without a second thought.

n/t

[Egnever]

183. Really and alienate the people he was trying to reach out to

By proclaiming one of their favorites unacceptable?

Its no excuse for mclurkins BS but I think it was a lose lose situation for him no matter what.

[closeupready]

185. Remember Bill Clinton and Sister Souljah?

>>In United States politics, a Sister Souljah moment is a politician's public repudiation of an allegedly extremist person or group, statement, or position perceived to have some association with the politician or their party. Such an act of repudiation is designed to signal to centrist voters that the politician is not beholden to traditional, and sometimes unpopular, interest groups associated with the party. Though, such a repudiation runs the risk of alienating some of the politician's allies and the party's base voters.<<

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Souljah_moment

A similar press conference/action would have been appreciated.

[Egnever]

186. Agreed and I think if he is smart

He will get on it and get it done.

[hisownpetard]

68. Another contest I'm gonna get to miss! nt

[Egnever]

63. Um unless I am mistaken

Mckulkin or whatever is a gospel singer not a country singer. Toby keith is a trool also though.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

29. Do you seriously believe Obama invited him because he is anti gay?

OF COURSE... what do you think this is about?

Your naivete is stunning.

[Egnever]

39. Perhaps my post was not clear

I mean do you believe Obama invited him because Obama is anti gay?

I got the Naivete part the first time got any more good one liners or are you spent?

[babylonsister]

4. No flames here - Agree totally, and thank you. nt

[LeftyMom]

5. So he's not really a bigot, only a lying panderer. Remind me never to let you defend me.

Actually, it looks like he's a panderer either way, and maybe a liar. It's only whether he's a 'phobe that's really debatable, or if he only lacks the moral courage to stand up to and speak out against them.

[calteacherguy]

12. For crying out loud, wouldn't you rather these people to vote Democratic????

How else to you expect to get legislation passed and change the world. Get a freakin' clue!!!

[LeftyMom]

17. Uh, they're churchy black voters. They're going to vote Dem no matter what.

He's trying to out pander Hillary to win the South Carolina primary, it has nothing to do with with getting them to vote Dem in the general.

[Egnever]

21. LOL so let me get this straight

all the black people should be ignored cause the gays don't like it? Is that the stance your taking here?

[LeftyMom]

24. No, my stance is that principle is more important than pandering.

[Egnever]

30. yes and ignore the black churchy vote

They are going to vote dem anyway.....Guess what so is the GLBT comunity. So by your measaure we should ignore them both...

Guess he got it half right in your book ehh?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

40. Homophobia is common here. This brand of naked racism is not.

Your casual equation of black people's political idntity with homophobia is a slur to just about everyone.

You're ignored. Have fun.

[Egnever]

55. Bye I wont miss ya

good luck with chip on that shoulder.

[LeftyMom]

43. Win the black church vote, and the gay vote, and the centrist vote for that matter, on real social

issues. Talk about poverty. Talk about education. Talk about improving the economy so young people can get decent work and a good start on life. Talk about ending the war. Talk about the cost of living.

Those are the things people really care about and those are the things that unite and expand the party rather than divide it.

[Egnever]

61. Again do you really believe

He invited mclurkin or whatever his name is to garner the anti Gay vote? Obmamas record on gay issues clearly nulifies him geting any of that voting block.

[LeftyMom]

70. Either that or he's an idiot who can't be bothered to google his invitees

If that's the case, he sure as hell shouldn't be in a position to nominate anybody to any work of importance. If he can't throw a concert without this much of a flap what the hell would his cabinet (or closet in McClurkin's case) be like? :scared:

[Egnever]

87. Yes cause He has the time to wory bout every entertainer

He books for every apearance he does.

You clearly live in fantasy land.

[LeftyMom]

90. Here in realityville, that's why you hire competent staff. And when they fuck up, you fix it asap.

Basic leadership skills.

[Egnever]

98. Again what was the good answer here

do tell. alow the crowd draw to go on while explaining that you dont agree with his veiws or.. Remove him and explain to religious folks why one of their favorite singers sucks.

There was no good choice and Here in reality ville he made the right one.

[LeftyMom]

104. Google first, then invite. Invite somebody else with no skeletons. Avoid the whole issue.

Once the guy's invited, you either find a politic and polite way to disinvite him (rescheduling to a day you know he has another event, for example) or you bring him down with the clear understanding that he's not to touch the issue with a ten foot pole.

Instead he did a half hour sermon at Obama's event. (And I say again, even an innocuous sermon at a political function should have been a huge red flag.)

[Egnever]

109. Well I would say its pretty hard to find prominent religious leaders

With no anti gay skeletons. Care to find me some with that there google thing you keep talking bout?

And the tour was called "40 Days of Faith and Family" The whole thing was about religion and politics. Do you even have a clue about what this event was supposed to be or are you just outraged at the anti gay guy and so nothing about it could have been good?

[LeftyMom]

113. No, I'm saying the whole preminse of religion and politics like that is fucked.

And I don't need to search to know there are plenty of open and affirming (or whatever the denominational buzzword is) congregations out there and likely many of them have awesome singers and performers to send out. If I, an atheist, could figure that out, one would hope that churchgoing and well-connected Senator Obama or his staff could make a few calls.

I don't know what gospel singers are good on the issue, but it's not my role to know either, since I'm not putting on a political rally/gospel concert, for pete's sake.

[Egnever]

118. what in the world?

I thought it was simple you just google it blah blah..

Apparently not so simple after all I guess.

So really your issue is just the fact that religion was involved at all and the gay thing is just a reason to be pissed. Just asking.

Oh and you didn't really figure out much of anything did you other than supposing that there must be someone.

[IndianaJones]

93. you need to just give this one up dude. nt.

[Egnever]

99. Thanks for the one liners!

They are keeping me entertained!

I will take your drive by into consideration.

[IndianaJones]

101. anytime dude. nt

[IndianaJones]

48. that is a racist statement. nt.

[Chovexani]

84. All black people are not homophobic, first of all.

Some of us are even queer.

Thirdly, not every church-going person is anti-GLBT. There are GLBT Christians, and many more Christians who reject homophobia and embrace inclusivity and tolerance..

But thanks for playing.

[calteacherguy]

22. I want those votes in the General. All of them.

And I don't for a moment believe the Republicans won't try to take them away from us with wedge issues.

Our best defense is to be inclusive, and continue to stand up for our progessive principles. That's the way to change the world.

[LeftyMom]

35. Bigotry is not a progressive principle, demonizing gay people is not inclusive, and we're not going

to lose the black vote in the general (about 90% in most presidential elections goes to the dem) by not being bigoted enough, because anybody unprincipled enough to try will still be outdone by those champion haters on the right side of the aisle.

[calteacherguy]

47. Obama is not bigoted. You are not seeing the issue clearly.

And I don't think you ever will.

[LeftyMom]

59. One of us certainly isn't seeing this clearly.

Hint: it's the one with his head so far up Obama's ass he could do his dental exam.

If for some crazy reason he wanted to mix politics and religion and hold a campaign rally/ gospel concert (does anybody else find that bad enough?!?) he could have done so without inviting a homophobic ex-gay, he could have changed plans when the error was pointed out, or he could have told the guy to go out there and sing and keep his bigotry to himself. Instead Obama gave that freak his stage, his credibility and his crowd. So either he supports what he has to say or he's a panderer.

[Egnever]

65. And thats where you have it wrong

Obama wasnt looking for his crowd he was looking for Mclurkins crowd. He was trying to reach out to them and bring them into the fold or at least maybe open a few eyes. Where he looking for his own crowd he could have just shown up himself.

[LeftyMom]

73. So we're back to pandering. Does he want the hater demo that badly?

[Egnever]

76. Hate to break it to you they all pander

Every last one of them thats what p[olitics is babe. Get used to it.

[LeftyMom]

78. Babe?

Holy fuck, do you have a lot of nerve.

[Egnever]

88. Yep

[IndianaJones]

91. lol. too much. nt.

[IndianaJones]

83. LOL. babe. ha. nt.

[eridani]

74. No, he isn't bigoted

He's just pandering to bigots, like Clinton did in 1993 with the Sistah Souljah thing.

Reaching out to people by playing to their bigotry is bullshit. Why not reach out on areas of common ground like education, health care, the environment and ending the war?

[Egnever]

77. Again you confuse the issue

Do you truly believe he invite this tool because he was anti gay or because he is one of the most popular gospel singers in the country?

If you believe he invited him because of his anti gay stances well, methinks you are looking for demons.

[eridani]

81. Given the fact that there are lots of gospel singers out there who are not anti-gay--

--why give a bigot a platform?

[Egnever]

92. theres lots of lots of things out there

When you want to draw people in do you invite the bigest ticket you can get or some dude who does the same thing but no one knows?

Again when The invite went out do you really believe that he was aware of the anti gay meme of this guy?

I probably would have nixed him when i found were it my decision. However condeming the guy would also come with blowback from the gospel comunity. Not a great choice to have to make and yes he will likely research his performers much better in the future.

It still baffles me however that people choose to view this as he purposely intended to hold a gay bashing event.

[FredScuttle]

25. the same song and dance the LGBT community has been hearing for years

1988: Gay and Lesbian what? Oh Christ, back in the closet with you!

1992: Huh? Oh yeah...if you don't make a lot of ruckus, we'll take care of you when we win

1996: This re-election is crucial, so don't make a big scene about your "rights" and such shit....we promise we'll make it up to you

2000: Christ, this Bush guy is pretty slick! He's gaining a lot of ground with this compassionate conservatism schtick. It's going to be a ultra-tight election, so don't rock the boat and embarass us....we'll make it right with you when we win

2004: We have to get bush out of office. All other issues must take a lower priority. That includes you gays and lesbians....can't you see the Republicans are killing us on gay marriage?!! We'll take care of you after the election

2008:?????

[Egnever]

34. Yup and guess what

Its going to continue.

Keep fighting the good fight.

I agree mc crackheads a dick. Make all the waves you want but try to keep an eye on the baby you are throwing out with the bathwater.

[Maven]

167. "It's going to continue"

No, it's not.

We represent millions of voters, a sizable bloc that votes Democratic--what?--90% of the time?

And we've had it. NO MORE votes, period, for politicians of any party that legitimize bigots and their bigotry.

You got that?

[closeupready]

181. Deleted.

self-delete.

[hulklogan]

37. 2008: Stop your uppity gay whining, we need the new anti-gay votes to win the election nt

edited to add this: :sarcasm:

[Egnever]

53. Whine all you want

Couldn't care less, but stop pretending you think Obama is anti gay. I don't think hes gonna get the anti gay votes.

Hell just a couple months ago the religious community was grilling him about how gay friendly he was.

He just might get the family values votes though or the people that listen to their preacher when he tells em the Dems hate them and want to take away their bible. The anti gay vote doesn't want you to have civil unions even. Hell they want constitutional amendments baning gay relationships completely. I seriously doubt Obasma was after the anti gay vote. If he was hes got a lot more work to do yet.

[hulklogan]

82. Of course he was after the anti-gay vote

If you believe otherwise, you obviously haven't read the multitude of threads on the subject.

[Egnever]

96. LOL

if you believe that you have taken this BS way to personaly and need to clear your head of the circle jerk that is DU.

[hulklogan]

148. Right, I took Obama calling McClurkin one of his favorites too personally

Especially considering how McClurkin has declared war on me and said that I'm killing children.
:sarcasm:
Shameful

edited my poor spelling

[Egnever]

151. yes cause theres just no possibility in the world

that anyone can enjoy someones music and disagree with their politics or beliefs ever. Good luck in your black and white world let me know how that works out for you.

Wonder what the dixie chicks have to say about your kinda bullshit.

[hulklogan]

155. You should be ashamed of yourself

Homophobic bigotry and the victims of it do not deserve to be called bullshit by you or anyone else.

I'm not calling you a bigot, but I definitely see a lack of compassion and empathy and values in your posts.

[Egnever]

161. My apologies

I am sorry that you feel somehow threatened or lessened because I don't believe Obama is a bigot. Just calling it how I see it. I didn't call victims of anything bullshit by the way I called the argument that somehow obama is a bigot because a popular gospel singer he invited to perform at an event is one bullshit.

The kind of hyperbole displayed in your post is exactly the sort of stuff that drove me to start this thread in the first place.

Shame on you for trying to twist my comments into somehow calling gay people or any other victims of anything bullshit.

These obama is a homophobe posts from a large portion of the gay community here are hardly the posts of victims they are the posts of people looking for a way to be a victim. A rational person would simply look at Obamas record on GLBT issues and realize he has done a lot to support them over his political career so far and dismiss this mclurkin as the jerk that he is and yes even give obama hell for giving him a forum but suggesting that Obama has some sort of secret anti gay agenda is complete horseshit and ill keep calling posts like yours on it.

[hulklogan]

177. If he wasn't trying to reach out to the anti-gay vote

why did Obama let McClurkin MC the event and then give an anti-gay sermon?

And you did say "your kinda bullshit." What did you mean by that, exactly, other than to call the outrage of the GLBT community bullshit?

I don't believe that Obama is truly a bigot, and I never called him a bigot or a homophobe. However, associating with bigots and giving them a platform to spout their garbage is pathetic and there is no excuse for it.

All of the Obama defenders who are trying to make excuses for an indefensible act are only serving to drive this gay even further away from his campaign. I will not be a Log Cabin Democrat.

[Egnever]

180. Once again I don't care if you vote for Obama or not.

Hes not my candidate I don't have a favorite. I have a lot of candidates I like and a couple I don't. So threats of my actions driving you away from Obama mean little or nothing to me.

As far as MC'ing the Event he did it because the guy is a gospel superstar. whether or not the gay community likes him the gospel crowd adores him. At no point did obama say he agreed with him and he certainly didn't ask him to get on stage and spout anti gay nonsense in fact he made a statement saying he disagrees with mcjerkins views on homosexuality.

I meant exactly the bullshit of trying to paint Obama as a homophobe because he allowed an incredibly popular gospel singer to sing at a faith based event.

I understand your outrage and I share some of it. It was and continues to be badly handled IMHO. But its complete bullshit to call Obama a homophobe when his record clearly shows he has supported the gay community for a long time.

If i am painting you with too broad a brush I apologize but the catalyst for this thread for me was reading one to many posts saying the guy is a homophobe. I find that every bit as offensive as I do mclurkins garbage. Obama handled the situation poorly, very poorly IMHO. You have every right to be angry about mclurkins spew at an obama event but pretending Obama agrees with it or worse wanted him to spew it is disingenuous and a complete departure from reality.

[jlake]

6. Stop apologizing for him!

It is getting really old.
Obama's pandering is sickening and the more it is defended the more I cannot stand him.
2 weeks ago he was my second choice. Now, I would NOT Vote for him in the GE (Fortunately, he will NEVER get the nom...EVER)

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. It's a carnival of cluelessness

[calteacherguy]

10. Yes, but I believe it is YOU who are clueless.

We simply disagree. I think the OP is spot on.

[Egnever]

14. I am not apologizing for him

I think he could have handled it way better. Or god forbid perhaps even removed him from the bill. However I don't for a second believe he is anti gay and if you do you are just looking for excuses to call people homophobes.

[jlake]

44. I disagree with that...he handled it just the way he wanted to...

It throws up SO many red flags. What core values will he compromise to get votes.
If it was simply bad handling of a SIMPLE issue, how is he going to handle the GOP attacks and run a good ge campaign...let alone run the country.
I honestly feel that Obama has the same "cult of personality" that Bush does. Folks who are so caught up in some *idea* of a man that they do not see the obvious truth...it boggles the mind.
I think that the only thing that Obama has going for him is his personality - and I think his personality sucks.

[Egnever]

75. I think your confused

First Obama is not my candidate. I am just sick of the bullshit about this issue. And its not a simple issue at all. Would there have been a backlash from the religious community had he condemned one of their Icons and removed him from the show?

Obviously the religious vote means little to you. I can accept that. That doesn't mean they are unimportant. Nor does a gay bashing gospel singer at a show mean obama is anti gay when every vote he has taken on the issue says otherwise.

[jlake]

89. You're the one confused..."the religious vote"

The issue was simple. Obama should have NEVER gotten involved with someone who is an "Icon" of homophobes.
That is exactly the bullshit that Obama was spewing..not McClosetcase..Obama himself bringing together the "good Christians" and the "sinful gays"
...There are plenty of "religious" GLBTers...I should know, I am one. and Yes, the vote of anyone who would hold McClosetcase as an icon is not important to me. Let's not stop there...we need all of the misogynist and racist votes too.
...If that is the road that we are going down then Hillary and Obama should step out of the race because wimmins should be in the kitchen and blacks aint smart nuff to be presdent.....
I think we are better than that. Where is the "hope" that Obama promised???? If I want a panderer to the religious right I can vot for whoever the Republican nominee is...that is NOT what I am looking for!

[Egnever]

95. The hope is

That by trying to include tese people rather than just vilifying them you can break down bariers and hopefuly allow them to take a second look at their bigotted ways.

[jlake]

97. LOL

Then I think we should try to include the Klan....let's have a dialogue.

[Egnever]

100. Absolutely

talk to all of them you dont educate people by ignoring them.

[jlake]

108. good luck with that.

Besides the fact that it is hopeless to these kind of people....we DO NOT need them.
The votes are there for a STRONG DEMOCRAT who opposes the Republicans, not tries a weak immitation.

[Egnever]

111. what in the world are you talking about?

who has a better stance than obama on gay issues? That has a chance of becoming the nominee?

Obamas plenty strong. Which religious leader would you have suggested he put on stage for his faith and family tour that the gay community wouldn't have had a problem with?

There are plenty of very good christians out there. Decent people with good hearts and to pretend that all christians are gay bashing republican worshiping hopeless cases is demented. And shows more your hatred of anything religious than it does any bigotry on their part.

[jlake]

117. Hillary, Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, Gravel

(I think that anyone running has as good of a chance as Homophobama) ...He is absolute toast - his fundraising will plunge off a cliff.
Obama could have put the two gay pastors that his campaign barred from appearing on the stage or any number of religious leaders that are not homophobic.....You do know that being homophobic is not a pre-requisite to being religious...right?
.......You must be nuts..... I am very active in my church...that you would accuse me of hating religious people...WTF...I have NO Problem with Religious folk...I have EVERY Problem with haters who use religion as an excuse.

[Egnever]

122. Sorry I am trying to understand you

all those people have better stances and records on gay issues than obama? or all those people could win the election or hell I don't know WTf you are trying to say there.

I also don't get you reiterating my point to you that not all religious people are homophobes.

What two gay pastors he banned? I heard nothing about that unless they were people who walked in off the street and decided they should be on stage that would be bothersome. However as I understood it he invited an openly gay pastor to appear.

[jlake]

132. They are all at least as good as Obama on gay issues. They are all as viable for POTUS.

Do some research. Obama's campaign refused to let 2 prominent gay religious leaders perform at the event...no, not wome people walking in off the street. Adding a token gay pastor as an afterthought was just insulting.

[Egnever]

135. Really?

Of course they are all as viable as candidates I still don't know where thats coming from.

WTF do some research? your the one who posted it did you just pull that out of your butt about baning the gay pastors or do you actually have some sources for that? This isn't my issue its yours, you want to convince me Obama is a homophobe you show me cause I ain't buying till i see some source for that, i am willing to bet there isn't one cause if there was, there sure as hell would be loud threads about it. It would likely surpass the mckjerkin BS.

[jlake]

187. Link

http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2007/10/barack-obama--1.html

" New reports suggest Camp Obama rejected at least TWO openly gay black pastors, and two straight allies, including the popular Rev. Michael Eric Dyson, as choices to open the concert series.
This news comes as the campaign releases an open letter by prominent black clergy and gay supporters which says the White House hopeful rejects the beliefs of alleged "ex-gay" Rev. Donnie McClurkin and "at the same time, a great many African Americans share Pastor McClurkin's beliefs."

[cboy4]

121. Oh that's an excellent point jlake.

"It throws up SO many red flags. What core values will he compromise to get votes."

Yes indeed.

[NMMNG]

188. There's a reason he didn't want a black gay pastor

And it's downright insidious.

[FredScuttle]

7. You are a disgrace to your avatar

Jerry weeps.

[calteacherguy]

9. Hey now.

Let Jerry rest in peace.

[FredScuttle]

13. How can he

when bigot apologists co-opt his image?

[calteacherguy]

15. Would you rather these folks vote Republican?

Obama is strengthening the Democratic Party, and helping the progressive movement. We win with VOTES.

[LeftyMom]

20. 1. bigotry is not progressive 2. Obama is a centrist 3. the folks he's pandering to are already Dems

Nice try.

[calteacherguy]

31. Nice try.

1. Of course it isn't. That's not relevant to the issue.

2. Obama is a strong supporter of gay rights...as strong or stronger than any of the nominees.

3. I don't for a moment believe the folks he's reaching out too will not be courted by the Republican Party. You sound stereotypical and frankly racist to me in your attitude toward them...as if they can be taken for granted and think as one.

[LeftyMom]

51. Horseshit. Two of the canidates support equal marriage. Obama does not,

even though he's the only one who belongs to a church that supports full equal marriage.

And if you honestly believe that the Republican party has any hope of picking up any real percentage of the black vote in SouthCarofuckinglina you've never been there.

[calteacherguy]

54. I support civil unions for all. Marriage is a religious institution

in which the government has no business being.

And yes, I believe Black voters could swing SC one way or the other in the General Election. It only takes one vote.

I'm getting a little nauseated from your implicit racism...it's starting to show. Goodnight and good luck.

[LeftyMom]

66. Goodnight Zandor

:hi:

"Goodnight and good luck" pfft. Murrow you're not.

[Egnever]

69. Which two that have a chance of being elected?

Hell i heard howard dean say nthere are 128 Dem's runing for POTUS I am sure theres more than two. It doesnt mean any of them stand a chance in hell of getting elected.

Hell I support gay marriage but you wont se me getting elected either.

[IndianaJones]

71. nice try yourself. that is BS. nt.

[FredScuttle]

33. It neither helps the Party nor advances the progressive movement

to welcome ex-gay clowns onto a concert stage to condemn the LGBT community for the amusement of fellow bigots.

We will win with votes....and the Democratic candidate won't have to pander to bigotry to do so.

[calteacherguy]

38. He wasn't pandering.

A confused gay gospel singer aired his misguided views, and Obama stated he clearly disagreed. Do you think McClurkin doesn't know Obama's views on this one issue are not completely opposed to his own? McClurkin was endorsing a candidate with views opposed to his own on homosexulity. You think that is a bad thing???

[FredScuttle]

57. Curious choice then for the star of his fundraising concert, right?

It's not as if this was the first time Obama was aware that he put an ex-gay clown in the center stage of his event. He was given plenty of advance warning of the consequences of welcoming a bigot to his campaign and he is reaping those consequences right now.

[calteacherguy]

60. He chose to take the high ground and do the politically courageous thing

while upholding his principles.

Thank goodness he didn't listen to the likes of you.

[Maven]

172. Bullshit.

He LEGITIMIZED a bigot.

Do you understand that word, or shall I repeat it?

LEGITIMIZED.

We're sick of it, and will not vote for him. Is that "courageous" enough for you, Mr. I Don't Support Obama Even Though I Go To Bat for Him in Every Thread?

[Egnever]

16. Cry me a river

I don't remember Jerry being a big promoter of hatred of any kind. Including hating one person for something someone else is doing.

[calteacherguy]

19. He's not promoting hatred!

Stop confusing what you think of McClurkin with Obama!

[Egnever]

79. lol

think you have me confused with the other guy. I was talking bout Jerry

[cboy4]

23. Here's a "clue for" you Egnever....we know that Obama

is trying to get the fundies to vote for him.

I wonder how Obama would feel if the other candidates went to racist Bob Jones University to get votes there, using the same argument?

I don't agree with selling one's soul to the devil in order to win.

[calteacherguy]

26. You would prefer the "fundies" NOT vote for a Democrat?????

This is becoming surreal...

[IndianaJones]

32. I would prefer the fundies dry up and blow away. nt.

[calteacherguy]

52. NOT a progressive, moral, or courageous attitude. nt

[IndianaJones]

56. I'm not a progressive. Too many bigots. nt.

[FredScuttle]

36. How on earth did we pull off such miracles without fundies

let's see....1992, 1996, 2000 and a damn near close win in 2004. Not to mention an electoral ass-whipping in the 2006 Congressional elections

[calteacherguy]

41. And you have Dean as your avatar?

The irony is beyond belief.

I'm not writing ANY voter off. Democrats need to get smart.

[cboy4]

46. Not if it means pissing all over minorities in the process.

You don't see Hillary, Edwards or the others acting so desperate.

[calteacherguy]

50. I like your HRC avatar.

I'm a member too, and I also fully support what Obama did and is doing.

[cboy4]

67. I'm glad you like my avatar teach, but seriously...

would you support candidates reaching out to other bigots to try to win votes also?

I mean, where do you draw the line?

[Egnever]

85. WTF he wasn't reaching out to bigots

How do you not get that? He invited a popular gospel singer not a gay bashing freak I am quite sure at the time of the invite he was like hey can we get any great gospel singers to come do a show for us ? and someone said this dork very popular with the GOSPEL community. Not the GAY bashing community the gospel community . WTF you act like the only people that like this asshat are gay bashing homophobes the guy is like the second most popular gospel singer in the country you don't get that way singing just to the homophobes.

[cboy4]

94. Obama should have replaced the gospel singer with

another gospel singer.

He was informed about this guy, yet chose to keep him.

Now Obama is dealing with a guilt by association situation.

It's a valid concern, and he deserves all of this grief, because he chose to sell his soul to the devil to win votes.

None of the other candidates have felt the need to climb into the gutter like Obama has.


on edit, typo

[Egnever]

106. Right none of them

like hillary playing fotsie with murdock or Edwards runing hedge funds while pandering to the little people..or biden and his calling obama a clean black or.. the list goes on and on.

Wake up to reality and stop the candidate worship they all have warts. They are human.

[cboy4]

110. Sense when is "playing fotsie with midock" or "runing

hedge funds while pandering to little people" a bigoted behavior?

You're mixing apples and oranges, and you know it because you're getting pinned into a corner.

And I don't defend what Biden said about Obama.

It would be one thing if Obama allowed the homophobic gospel singer to perform, without knowing about his history.

But Obama knew, and decided to piss all over gay people anyway.

[Egnever]

114. ok ill ask you the same question I asked elswhere on this thread.

Which prominent religious entertainment do you think he could have invited that the gay comunity didnt have a problem with?

Pretty mcuh none of em right? Cause most of the religious leaders have made anti gay statements at one time or another. Hell you just ruled out any catholic apearing at all havent you?

[cboy4]

119. No, you don't understand the difference. Mcwhatever

is gay and the poison he spews, the lies he tells has a profound impact on gay people's fight for civil rights.

And Obama should know better, especially being a minority himself.

[Egnever]

123. Can you answer the question?

I understand mcfuckwit is an ass got that loud and clear and agree wholeheartedly. Which prominent religious leaders or entertainment would you not object to?

Seriously?

Or is he just not allowed to have any big name religious people appear because they are all anti gay in some way or another.

[cboy4]

126. As I said, the difference is that he selected someone

who is poison to gay people.

I'm pretty sure there are good gospel singers who are not rabid gay haters....as opposed to the person he happily allowed to perform, betraying a group of minorities he should have been more sensitive to.

[Egnever]

128. people keep saying that

I am sure there are good gospel singers...

I have yet to hear anyone suggest any.

Maybe we can agree on something here. For the most part I think the religious establishment comes down on the anti gay side. I don't agree with it which is one of the reasons I don't go to church anymore but I believe it to be the case. Name me any prominent religious figure and ill bet you dollars to donuts i can find anti gay speech coming from them.

Having said that I understand your point that this guy has said some pretty outrageous shit. I also understand your point that he is widely hated in the gay community. I assume this is true because you say so.

However while it may be very important to you and because of that you are or were aware who this clown was before this whole flap I have never in my life heard of the guy. Nor had I heard any of his hate speech and I doubt Obama had either.

I am not denying your right to hate this mclurkin dork with all of your being hell i don't like him and i just heard of him. I am questioning the motives of people equating Obama with his positions simply because he appeared at one event. Despite the fact that Obama clearly stated before the event that he didn't agree with his views before and after the event and having a record that pretty much proves he didn't.

People and you are trying to imply that he invited this guy out of some sick desire to get out all the gay bashing he has been wanting to do all his life. I think he made a bad choice in singers and after the choice was made made another bad choice and decided to go ahead anyway. I also think he was asking to step in it with the 40 days of faith and family no matter what. There was going to be controversy coming out of that no matter who he invited if it wasn't gays it would be womans rights or abortion rights or prayer in schools or god knows what else theres a fundy pet project out there to piss off pretty much anyone.

His idea is to bring the people together hopefully so they can shed some of their ignorance of each other and come together as human beings without the ginned up hatred they have concocted for each other.

You don't like his choice of entertainers... I can live with that I don't like his choice either. I do understand where it came from at least originally though, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with him being anti gay.

It may turn out to be a huge mistake in the end for Obama But I at least appreciate the effort he is making to try to get people to the table. Looks like this one backfired horribly from the gay end of the table.

[cboy4]

131. And Egnever....please keep in mind that, speaking for

myself, I do not believe that Obama "invited this guy out of some sick desire to get out all the gay bashing he has been wanting to do all his life."

But I'm concerned about the guilt by association factor in that I worry Obama is more fundie than he's letting on.

And I have no reason to believe you're a bigot.

[Egnever]

136. hmm you mean more fundy as in

Religious nutcase fundy? I can understand feeling that I suppose. We never really know who these folks are. However again I think if you look back at what we do have him on record on you wont find anything to confirm that feeling. Hell the fundies were raging against him just a couple of months ago.



http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-3670.html

Christians attack Obama's record on gay rights

His popularity has prompted radical pro-life group Christians for Social Justice to launch ObamaNation.Com, a website "exposing" Obama's positions on abortion and same-sex unions.

In a sign of the moral battles ahead, Pastor Clenard H. Childress, Jr. director of the group, said:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hes not really my candidate i like a bunch of them this time around some a lot less than others but theres several good choices and any of them will be better than what we have now. I just suddenly snapped after reading this crap for four days now or however long its been and decided to sound off about it.

Thanks for the not labeling me a bigot

[cboy4]

139. Nah, not a "nutcase fundy." But definintely someone

who is religious enough to allow his beliefs to prohibit him from ever approving of equal marriage.

While on the other hand, I can see John Edwards eventually getting to that stage much sooner...especially since his wife and daughter are already on record as supporting gay marriage now.

[Egnever]

80. I would aplaud any candidate willing to go to bob jones university

As long as their message didnt change and they spoke to their beliefs in front of what would surely be a very tough crowd.

You would condemn them I suppose just for the fact of going there.

[cboy4]

103. Of course I would condemn them, because they

would be speaking at a "university" that doesn't view black people as equals.

It would be despicable.

[Egnever]

107. Well I guess we disagree then

I think discourse is a good thing be it with friends or enemies you don't change minds by ignoring them.

[cboy4]

112. Well, using that argument, you would therefore not have

a problem with candidates speaking to the Klan or Neo Nazis, etc.

"You don't change minds by ignoring them." Right Egnever?

[Egnever]

125. Absolutely right!

Nor would I have a problem with them talking to castro or achmadenacrazy or Chavez or any number of other people we dissagree with. It doesnt mean they agree with them you know just because they engage them in conversation.

just like I think your out of your mind with your stance but it doesnt stop me from responding to your posts. Nor does it seem to stop you from responding to me despite the fact that you quite clearly feel the same way about my stance.

We may neither of us change the others mind about anything but we will both hopefully walk away with a better understanding of where the other is coming from and perhaps be better able to come to a concensus in the future.

Crazy concept I know but there it is.

[cboy4]

127. Egnever, I'm lost for words that you actually think

it would be okay for a political candidate to reach out to hate groups.

That's a stunning revelation.

I do agree with you about talking to the world leaders we don't see eye to eye with.

But that's again, apples and oranges.

You can't compare reaching out to hate groups to seek votes, versus negotiating with world leaders in the name of American national interests.

It's not a fair comparison.

[Egnever]

130. so in your mind its all a matter of standing?

Iran is ok because its a country but say talking to the mayor of your local fuckwit fundy town might not be because it doesn't rise to the national security level? or maybe you just draw the line at politically recognized groups I am not sure.

You clearly draw the line of talking with people you disagree with somewhere. Where exactly is that line for you?

I on the other hand think it has benefit across the board from that neighbor I cant frigging stand that keeps letting his dog get into my trash to the bat shit crazy people like achmadenijad and even you !

[cboy4]

133. For a politician, the line is talking to and associating

with hate groups, racists and bigots.

Now, if you're talking about a private person talking to these people in order to try to convince them to change their ways, then that's a different story.

But we're talking about someone who wants to represent Americans, including myself, as President.

Obama didn't allow Mcwhatever to perform to try to engage in outreach.

He allowed him to perform to raise money and to secure votes.

That's the problem I have.

And it's a fair issue for gay people and others to go after him.

[Egnever]

138. I can accept that line.

I also think its absolutely fair for gay people to take him to the woodshed on. I don't however think it in any way relegates him to the realm of homophobe or purposefully gay bashing or a lot of the other nonsense I have been reading about this for the last few days.

I think he clearly has some fence mending to do on this issue, but I also think he has a good record he can point to and be proud of when it comes to supporting the gay community.

[cboy4]

140. Sweeet. We've reached total agreement with your post,

just as my fingers are getting numb from typing so much.

Thanks Egnever.

;)

[BeyondGeography]

27. Fair-minded post

and your follow-up that Obama could have handled McClurkipalooza better makes it even more credible.

:thumbsup:

[Solon]

42. So he is a panderer and a moral coward? Is that somehow supposed to be better? n/t

[Name removed]

45. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

72. I love the straight people posting in this thread: "Good post! Great!"

And the gay people explaining why Obama has lost our vote. That's "lunacy" for you.

[cboy4]

86. And I like how their guilty conciouses always prompt

some of them to reiterate that they're not bigots.

You know, it's the old, "some of my best friends are black" cabal

[Egnever]

102. I don't give a flying

well you know if you think i am a bigot or not nor do I care if you vote for Obama or not. I just find the circle jerk about this issue lame and so I decided to post sa counter to all the obama is a gay basher bullshit posted here.

I totally understand why you wouldn't vote for him after this and thats fine with me. Like i said in the beginning not the best handling of a situation I have ever seen but to try to somehow turn obama into some kind of anti gay candidate after he has voted for gay rights every time he has had a chance to including introducing legislation of his own is just laughable.

We've got a lot of great candidates ill take most of them don't really care to much who. Clinton is probably the only one I would have to hold my nose for.

[Bluebear]

105. "I just find the circle jerk about this issue lame"

Do let us know about an issue near and dear to YOUR heart that we can insult next time. Just to "counter" it, ya know.

[Egnever]

116. If its near and dear to your heart then why

Dont you give a rats ass that Obama has been there for you every single time he voted? Instead its more important to point fingers at the bad man that was at the event.

Take a breath and admit that Obama has been there for the Gay comunity over and over when it counts and in the grand scheme of things this one jerk offs day oin the stage at an event doesnt change any of the legislation that passed and will pass with Obamas support.

I am not saying it shouldnt sting. Hell i dont like it either but I sure as hell dont for a second believe it makes obama anti gay.

[Bluebear]

120. It's not the bad man, it's that Obama clumsily said we have to reach out to those kinds of people.

I don't think Obama is bigoted, but the way he handled this was injurious to gay people, no matter what his voting record. Frankly, I am getting over the concert flap more than I am tolerating people here saying it was a "good move", and excusing it away.

[Egnever]

124. No where did I say it was a good move

Hell it was a disaster.

But those people do need to be reached out to. I know most of them will just bite your hand. But without reaching out there is just a hardening of positions.

I am not trying to excuse it either. I think doing a 40 days of faith and family tour was just asking for controversy and he certainly seems to have gotten it in spades. However I don't think demonizing religion is a good thing either. In fact though I am not even remotely religious many of the tenants laid out in religion are very good things. Be kind to your fellow man golden rule don't judge etc... And are DEMOCRATIC principles. We are losing a vote that should naturally be ours because we don't reach out to them.

I am quite sure there will be lots of angry people created in that process on all sides.

[FredScuttle]

149. Who's demonizing religion?

Should we embrace bigotry, homophobia and ignorance cloaked in the very serious cover of religion?

[Egnever]

153. You

We should embrace religion and work on the very serious bigotry that hides itself inside of religion.

[FredScuttle]

156. "work on the very serious bigotry that hides itself inside of religion"

so whose responsibility is it to clean the house of the faithful of the pernicious bigotry that lies within? Non-religious people?!!! Ever hear of the Scripture quote about removing a mote from an eye?

I'm not demonizing religion or the religious by condemning an "ex-gay" clown who mocks and defiles religion by parading his bigotry around as ordained by God. I'm demonizing bigotry...you're the one conflating religion and bigotry.

And, by the way, I'm not "embracing" religion. I respect the faithful and will work with whomever has an open mind and true heart, no matter the demonination, but I am long past my "Praise Jeebus" phase.

[Egnever]

174. Good idea!

First off you jumped into this thread after i had posted to someone else about demonizing religion. That post was not directed at you in the first place so claiming you were accused of demonizing religion by me doesn't hold a lot of weight and I haven't got a clue why you keep responding to me as if I said it to you.

I agree Mclurkin is is a clown judging by his comments. Of course I also feel the people that somehow think Obama is a bigot because someone performed at an event are also clowns.

I am not religious other than a belief in god. I don't like organized religion specifically because of its bigotry that flies in the face of everything that Jesus supposedly taught. I certainly am not trying to get anyone to be a fundy. What i am trying to point out is that when you are trying to engage religious people you don't bring in motley crew to do a set you bring in a gospel singer and a damn good one if Grammy awards mean anything. It doesn't mean you agree with everything they say or do in their life it means you like their singing.

[cboy4]

115. You may call it a circle jerk. I call it standing up for

principle and decency.

[Maven]

169. Right, and in the same breath they say our votes don't matter.

Boy, are they in for a surprise.

Thankfully, Obama has no shot at the nomination.

[CyberPieHole]

129. Obama is NOT anti-gay...

...he just panders to bigots who are.



He has lost my vote.

[AtomicKitten]

134. Bravo!

I completely agree with you. K&R

This is an election for the leader of the free world. As much as I abhor the thought of some of the candidates getting the nod (the ones I take to task on issues of war), I would never, ever wage a jihad against any of the Democratic candidates during an election as some have done against Obama. That's bullshit politics that is completely bereft of integrity on a number of levels.

Obama has a good LGBT record, consistently. That matters.

You are a brave man indeed for speaking up, and I thank you.

Remember ignore is just a click away when the ugly gets on your last nerve.

Cheers.

[cboy4]

137. Remind me again of Obama's good LGBT record...

Opposes equal marriage.

Embraces a homophobe to perform for his campaign, while ignoring the pleas of LGBT Americans to please, please choose someone else who doesn't preach that homosexuality is evil.

There's no telling what else Obama has no problem doing to secure votes, even if it means pissing all over gay people.

[Egnever]

141. Bah just when I thought we were getting somewhere.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-3670.html

A Democrat, he has only been a Senator for two years, but has already been able to vote against moves to amend the constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman.

The favourite to win the Democratic party nomination for President, Hillary Clinton, is already under fire for her hawkish approach to the war on terror and silence on gay rights.

Many LGBT Americans are unhappy that the former First Lady and other Senate Democrats have not responded in a visible and assertive way to attacks against gay marriage and other gay rights efforts by conservative Republicans and religious advocacy groups.

In contrast, Obama has been unafraid to make the case for fair treatment for gay people. He is is pro-choice, favours civil unions for lesbian and gay couples and supports universal health care.

He also never voted for the Iraq war, and has consistently that said the policies of the Bush years have put America in peril.

[cboy4]

142. Well, even though I have a lot of problems with Hillary,

I don't believe she's been any more silent about gay rights than anyone else.

Which issue is she silent about compared to any of the other candidates...particularly Obama?

She's said she supports civil unions, but opposes gay marriage like everyone else, except DK and Gravel.

She supports ending Don't Ask Don't Tell.

She does not support a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

This is why Obama's decision regarding the gospel singer has been magnified.

[Egnever]

143. I don't know

Just an article I found when looking for information on his record. This article was written before he announced so maybe at the time Hilary had not come forward then to the extent she has now.

The gist I get from the article though is he was outspoken on it before ruining for president where as she has come to it at some point during the race.

The article could be wildly off base I really couldn't tell you what Hillary has or hasn't done on this issue nor do I really care, I have other issues with Hillary that put her on the bottom of my list.

That said I am quite sure were she elected she would be worlds better than Bush.

Having said that its time for me to hit the hay.

Thanks for the conversation.

[sniffa]

144. wow, dismissive much?

i've read through your responses to peopLe, and you're even more sickening.

i Love the obama fetishists here and their audacity of hope. it's not enough that obama said fuck you, you keep adding more fuck yous here.

weLL, gotta go start another anti-obama thread, and kick my oLd ones.

[terrya]

145. Yeah, who gives a shit about us whiny homos

We're secretly all Hillary supporters. And we've got an agenda. To destroy Barack Obama. It's been in place for months now. The McClurkin thing was just a ruse.

[Egnever]

150. Do what you gotta do

Keep up the good work!

[cboy4]

175. You're so evil.

Keep it up.

[Dawgs]

147. Agree 100%. Great post!!

:toast: :bounce: :kick: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo:
:toast: :bounce: :kick: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo:
:toast: :bounce: :kick: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo:
:toast: :bounce: :kick: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo:
:toast: :bounce: :kick: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo:
:toast: :bounce: :kick: :headbang: :yourock: :woohoo:

BTW, I think he was wrong to keep this guy for this concert.

[Renew Deal]

152. Many people here couldn't care less about human rights.

They just want to bash the other candidate. You could bet that any of the other ones would have stoop with Donnie if the opportunity existed. Then it would be the Obama people smashing someone else.

Political Bullshit that gets DU excited. Nothing more.

[FredScuttle]

154. I care about civil rights

and I don't support Senator Clinton. Am I an outlier?

And until any of the other candidate book an "ex-gay" clown like Donnie McClosetCase to spew homophobic filth at an officially sanctioned campaign fundraiser, you bet your sweet bippy I'm giving Obama tons of shit because that's what he deserves for welcoming a bigot with open arms.

[Renew Deal]

157. Couldn't saying "Donnie McClosetCase"

be considered homophobic?

[FredScuttle]

158. No.

That was another chapter of "Simple Answers to Idiotic Questions"

[sniffa]

160. but, but, but...

you're just as bad as a bigot. :eyes:

[FredScuttle]

163. I must be...

because....I condemn bigots?

RESOLVED: I will try to understand and engage those who hate me and my LGBT brothers and sisters. I will give them a megaphone and my front lawn so they can educate me on how much they hate me and how hot it will be in Hell where I will suffer for eternity. I will defend their right to spew horrific bigotry to all my friends because I will say "You shouldn't condemn Reverend Phelps....you need to understand him. You need to comprehend what motivates his batshit insane hatred and bigotry". Only then, will I become a better Democrat.....an Obama Democrat.

Obama '08 - We Need The Votes

[NMMNG]

159. Yes, he is

He purposely held, as part of his campaign, a gospel concert tour complete with 5 raving homophobes as part of an attempt go garner for himself campaign money and votes from the homophobes.

When asked repeatedly by the LGBT population to remove McClurkin from the lineup he refused.

His "consolation prize" was to add a gay minister, but it was a white one. He purposely turned down two black gay ministers because having a white minister would keep alive the notion in his audiences mind that homosexuality is a "White-man's disorder".

He allowed McClurkin to emcee the event, and to give a 30 minute sermon against gay people.

He not only didn't say anything against this afterward, but said he was proud of his decision to go through with it. In effect, he was saying "Fuck you gay people, I'm glad I sucked up to the homophobes".

He played the race card and the homophobe card in order to win votes and money, and sold out LGBTs in the process. He is therefore a bigot.


You can read all about it here if you want details.

[Egnever]

164. Ok I read it

And I disagree with it.

the episode raises troubling questions about whether the Illinois senator has the courage and grace to prove the uniter he postures to be.

The posts implication is that to be a uniter you need to only play with the people on your side of the issue and is preposterous and is the reason we are so divided to begin with. You don't unite people by dismissing them, or ignoring them or condemning them. You unite people by bringing them to the table together so you can hash out their differences.

And yes he invited other homophobic singers. None of which I know but several of which apparently are grammy winners so they must be pretty damn good gospel singers.

Theres a lot of people out in the world with a lot of views on a lot of different things that doesn't make them good gospel singers.

I have an idea lets try to get as many people as we can to an event to hopefully help raise awareness about our issues but first lets eliminate anyone on our bill that has ever said anything controversial to anyone on anything. Then when we are left with a bunch of performers that no one has ever heard of because they are the only ones not on record saying something stupid or entirely whacked, we can get the three people that show up to our non event together and start working on some real change!

[NMMNG]

166. This has been explained a brazillion times but I'll try it again

You don't unite people by dismissing them, or ignoring them or condemning them. You unite people by bringing them to the table together so you can hash out their differences.

That concert was not an attempt to unite people and hash out their differences. Other than the token minister, who was brought in after much protest, and who was white, there were no gay people there. All of the performers were blatant homophobes and probably most of, if not all of, the audience was too. Obama gave his high praises of McClurkin via videotape, and therefore his implicit approval of McClurkin's opinions. McClurkin gave a 30 minute sermon against gays after which the audience cheered and clapped signifying their obvious agreement.

Where do you see any "hashing out" of differences between homophobes and LGBTs? There was no support of any kind for LGBT individuals at that concert. There were no LGBT people to speak of, other than the white minister (who did nothing but bolster the stereotype that homosexuality is a "white man's disorder"). Nothing was accomplished there except to strengthen homophobia among the audience, imply that Barrak Obama agrees with their homophobia, and garner money and votes for Obama. There was no "uniting" accomplished between homophobes and gay people.

[Egnever]

173. of course something was accomplished

if as you say her garnered votes and money from a house full of bigots then he got them to pay and vote against their own beliefs because he dangled something pretty in front of their eyes.

Again I don't think he handled it well, in fact i think it was handled poorly, but neither do I think he is a bigot. Hell if he is he sure has a fucked up way of voting his bigoted ideas.

The point i keep making over and over and I will try again is that like it or not the people at this event may have been homophobes but if we can get them to vote against their homophobia then something has been accomplished and as much as many would like Gay rights to be obamas only issue there are a lot of fish to fry in this election and we need to do everything we can to ensure we bring some sanity back to this country including talking to people we don't agree with.

Be mad don't vote for him whatever you see fit. Thats certainly your prerogative but pretending he is a bigot is glaringly false.

Were you actually at the concert? do you really know there was no uniting going on or are you just full of outrage that mclurkin got a stage and so dismiss anything good that might have come out of it out of hand?

[closeupready]

162. Given your post in the GLBT forum, many DU members must think that you are.

n/t

[Egnever]

165. My post in the glbt forum?

Quite honestly i don't care if DU'ers think I am a homophobe. They don't know me nor do you their opinions of me have little or no effect on me whatsoever.

I would love to know what post you are talking about though.

[closeupready]

168. Responses 66 and 75 to this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3672755#3674908

I don't know if it would be fair to call you a homophobe from these posts (and even though you don't care if you do get called out, that would be against the DU rules, anyway), but you sure do come off as cold.

[Egnever]

176. Thats not in the GLBT forum

And post 66 wasn't me.

And what exactly is homophobic about

"First Obama is not my candidate. I am just sick of the bullshit about this issue. And its not a simple issue at all. Would there have been a backlash from the religious community had he condemned one of their Icons and removed him from the show?

Obviously the religious vote means little to you. I can accept that. That doesn't mean they are unimportant. Nor does a gay bashing gospel singer at a show mean obama is anti gay when every vote he has taken on the issue says otherwise."

Really I don't care if you call me a homophobe I know what I do in my life and nothing I can say to you will make you believe anything other than what you want. I am completely comfortable with my relationships with the gay people in my life and thats just fine with me nothing anyone calls me on this board will change my relationships with them in anyway whatsoever. So call me a homophobe all you like if it will make you feel better. I promise not to alert on you.

[closeupready]

178. This isn't about you. I don't care whether you are or not. You wouldn't be the only homophobic mem

member of DU if you were, either.

This is about one of the Democratic candidates for the presidency, and he is held to a far higher degree of scrutiny than someone on an internet message board, and if Obama didn't know that his activities were going to be scrutinized so closely, then what the heck kind of candidate is he?

[Egnever]

182. your the one that started this conversation pointing at me

you made our conversation about me. I am happy to talk about Obamas actions instead if thats where you want to go.

Who said he didn't know his actions were going to be scrutinized? He better be well aware that they will be. I just don't think he shares the outrage over mclurkin you do. I think he separates the music from the man and perhaps thats a failing on his part to see past the ignorance and try to enjoy the good.

and once again no matter what the gay community thinks or i think about this mclurkin dork. He IS wildly popular in the gospel crowd apparently. Obama was trying to get the best faith based entertainment he could get his hands on for a faith based event are you really surprised people there performing or otherwise hold anti gay sentiments? Its pretty much a staple in the religious community is it not?

I don't think holding the event was the smartest idea he has had in the first place but I do appreciate the attempt to reach out to people that have been largely ignored or derided by our party. Despite the fact that they don't all have views i agree with.

Yes i understand your outrage at mclurkin but blaming Obama for Mclurkins actions is weak.

[closeupready]

184. Deleted

Never mind. I think we can agree on the spirit of your post above. :hi: Peace.

[CyberPieHole]

170. Obama is neither a bigot nor a homophobe...

He just panders to them. Spin it any way you like...the facts speak for themselves.

"I can certainly understand the disdain for mccrackhead..." I bet you can.:eyes:

[Maven]

171. Right, he's just a phony and a hypocrite. nt

[wndycty]

189. Certain DUers will look for any reason to hate Obama. . .

. . .and also will go out of their way to ignore his overall record on gay issues.

[cboy4]

190. It's fair game to criticize Obama for embracing

a high profile homophobe, simply to raise money and secure votes/

That's a strawman to argue we're looking "for any reason to hate Obama."

He made this bed, and he should have known better.

He now has a worse record on LGBT issues than both Hillary and Edwards because of his decision.