President Clinton did NOT say Hillary Clinton was "swiftboated."

[Sparkly]

What he said that involved "swiftboating:"

(T)he point I'm here to make to you is whoever you're for, this is a really big election. We saw what happened the last seven years when we made decisions in elections based on trivial matters. When we listened to people make snide comments about whether Vice President Gore was too stiff. When they made dishonest claims about the things that he said that he'd done in his life. When that scandalous Swift boat ad was run against Senator Kerry .

When there was an ad that defeated Max Cleland in Georgia -- a man that left half his body in Vietnam. And a guy that had several deferments ran an ad with Max Cleland's picture with Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, because he dared to vote against the president's version of the Homeland Security bill.

That's about REPUBLICANS smearing DEMOCRATS.

What he said about the debate:

Because, I had the feeling, at the end of that last debate, we were about to get into cutesy land again. "Ya'll raise your hand if you're for illegal immigrants getting driver's licenses." So, we'll then let the Republicans run an ad saying, "All the Democrats are against the rule of law."

I don't -- look, I think it's fine to discuss immigration. We should. Illegal immigration needs to be discussed, and it's fine for Hillary and all these other guys to be asked about Governor Spitzer's plan -- but not in 30 seconds, yes, no, raise your hand. This is a complicated issue. This is a complicated issue.

That's about how the debate MODERATORS set Democrats up for REPUBLICANS to make spurious claims.

PLEASE see Media Matters for the genesis of the "He said they swiftboated her" lie.

http://www.mediamatters.org/items/200711080003?f=h_latest

[William769]

1. Who needs the republicans to do the smearing?

We have plenty right here on DU to do it.

[rodeodance]

5. Bingo. Yes, there is a lot of this on du

[illinoisprogressive]

2. I see. He is really fearmongering with the swiftboat boogey man

[Sparkly]

3. Are you serious?

I can't tell.

[LanternWaste]

12. You appear to have one of the broadest definitions...

You appear to have one of the broadest definitions of that cute bit of bumper-sticker sloganeering, "fear-mongering" that I've ever encountered (outside of right-wing talk radio).

[blm]

4. So Bill was FINALLY showing outrage over Bush/Rove's attacks on Max and Kerry

and he couldn't SHOW that outrage in 2002 and 2004 during THEIR elections because he needed to SAVE that outrage over the attacks on them so he could use that show of outrage for Hillary's election?

Got it.

Plus - here's what REAL swiftboating looks like when used by a Democrat against another Democrat....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg


I hope Bill defends Kerry on THIS blatant use of swiftboat tactics.

[Sparkly]

7. Oh come on, blm.

The point is he didn't say what the media (and others) claim he said.

And about the subject you brought up:

THE CLINTONS; After Sharing the White House, Sharing a Critique of the G.O.P.

By RAYMOND HERNANDEZ
Published: August 30, 2004

Former President Bill Clinton offered a hard-hitting attack against the Republican Party yesterday, telling worshipers gathered at Riverside Church that President Bush and the Republicans are distorting John Kerry's war record in Vietnam.

''Sometimes I think our friends on the other side have become the people of the Nine Commandments,'' Mr. Clinton said. ''It is wrong to bear false witness.''

The remarks were echoed by Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, who unleashed an unusually strong assault on Mr. Bush and his party during back-to-back appearances on the Sunday-morning talk shows.

Mrs. Clinton accused the Bush campaign of having a direct hand in television ads that a veterans' group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has been running. The ads accuse Mr. Kerry, the Democratic nominee for president, of lying about his war record and the circumstances surrounding the medals he was awarded during the Vietnam War.

''The bottom line here is John Kerry is an authentic war hero,'' Mrs. Clinton said during an appearance on the ABC News program ''This Week with George Stephanopoulos.'' ''And this attempt by the Republicans to smear a man of John Kerry's character and courage goes to the heart of their pathetic campaign.''

(snip)

''But that doesn't mean that he (Bush) doesn't see through a glass darkly," he (Clinton) said. ''It doesn't mean that you can have a bunch of people acting on your behalf and pretending like you don't know them, to say that the seven people who were on John Kerry's Swift boat don't know what they're talking about when they say he deserves the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts.''

Mrs. Clinton, speaking on the NBC program ''Meet the Press,'' also linked the Bush White House with the Swift boat ads. ''The smear tactics used very effectively by this group, in, you know, conjunction with people very high up in the Bush campaign, have been an effort not only to impugn Senator Kerry but, more importantly, to divert and deflect attention from what's really at stake internationally and domestically,'' she said.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E5DC1631F933A0575BC0A9629C8B63&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/C/Clinton,%20Bill

[blm]

9. That's strongly worded outrage? Where is the wall of noise tactic they use for themselves?

Did you notice that NYT used the word 'unusually' to describe what Hillary said? Because it was UNUSUAL for them to speak against Bush in any public way. PUBLIC moments ARE few and far between when you try and find them from 2001-2006. Every now and then you can find something from a PARTISAN gathering, but, as Bill is now saying, he has no interest in going after Bush and Cheney.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[Sparkly]

10. I think this is both weak and irrelevent

The point remains: Bill Clinton didn't say what people are claiming he said re: Hillary Clinton being "swiftboated" at the debate.

If you want to go back and retrace everything they did and didn't say going back to 2001, how often and how strongly, at which forums, and then opine about whether it was enough, fine.

If you want to claim that either or both aren't "going after" Bush and Cheney sufficiently in your opinion, fine.

I don't think debating those opinions will get us anywhere, so I'll just repeat the point of my OP: Bill Clinton did not say Hillary Clinton was "swiftboated."

[blm]

11. Using the strictest structure, you're right, and that is what WH claims when

they say Bush never said Iraq attacked us on 9-11.

Bush knows exactkly what he's doing when he uses that tactic and so does Bill.

You don't list egregious attacks on military records and THEN move on to what MIGHT be attacks on Hillary 'cutesy after the debate' because arguing any distorted stance on the driver's license issue is still nowhere near the smearing of Cleland and Kerry.

[Sparkly]

13. "attacks on Hillary 'cutesy after the debate'"

He was speaking about all Democratic candidates when he said that. Any of them can be smeared when these tactics are used.

[blm]

14. Yes - and some Dems DO get swiftboated by OTHER Dems and yet there

was no concern when THAT occurred, was there?


Hey Bill - Let me show you 'cutesy'....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[Sparkly]

15. "no concern?"

That's just not so.

[blm]

16. Bill was concerned that Kerry got swiftboated again in Oct2006?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg


I doubt that many Dems acknowledged that swiftboating - and that was REAL swiftboating. People who knew damn well that Kerry worked for DECADES on the most important issues effecting military and their families and pushing the very idea that he insulted troops was another enormous LIE and insult.

Was Bush showing his support for the troops by lying about Kerry?

Was McCain?

Was Hillary?

[Sparkly]

17. I think you want to take this way beyond the point of the OP

into an entirely different discussion.

It's a valid thing to discuss, but it's not a discussion I'm engaging in here and now.

[durrrty libby]

6. To view another thread on this subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3696313

[Cameron27]

8. Thanks Sparkly,

the spinning has been so over the top that it's nearly impossible to discuss this rationally. I put the initial blame on MSNBC, Tweety and Russert who have been rabid in their Clinton (both Bill and Hillary) hatred, but unfortunately other candidates and their supporters will continue to use it to their own advantage.

Media Matters is a great debunker.