This board seems intent on smearing and swiftboating the two Democratic frontrunners.

[calteacherguy]

More than half of the posts here everyday are smears against Obama or Clinton.

Who would like to join me in pledging to keep it positive?

[Bluebear]

1. "#3, #4 etcetera are on their own, however"

:hi:

[Tejanocrat]

70. I find that hypocrisy gag-making; "play nice with my corporate lap dog while I slander progressives"

[BootinUp]

2. good luck, lol.

Its a nice thought though.

[Lerkfish]

3. is kucinich one of the two frontrunners?

because he's getting smeared, too.

what's your point?

[IndianaGreen]

4. Grow up! That's what primaries are for, to spare us nominating the most "electable"

candidate, just to find him (or her in this case) flop miserably in the general election.

It is not a smear to point out the inconsistencies and contradictions in a candidate's position, or to highlight questionable tactics by a campaign.

[calteacherguy]

8. You do have a point.

I will overlook your juvenile comment and acknowledge that reality.

However, there is a difference between that and, say, calling someone a bigot or a lying sack of scum.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cuke]

42. Wrong? No. Hypocritical? Maybe

I notice you don't have any problems with IG's "Grow up", but maybe because her aggression wasnt passive

[Yukari Yakumo]

25. The problem here is...

The problem here is none of the other candidates are saviors or shining knights on white horses either. However, the supporters of the other candidates will typically ignore that detail and will accuse and insult anyone who chips away at the phony facade they've made for their candidates.

[Capn Sunshine]

38. Nice take

over about 50% of the readers heads, Indy, but yeah, that's how it's going down.

[DemBones DemBones]

61. Exactly. The OP keeps whining about how mean

everybody is here. Maybe it's his first election, I don't know. But I do know these "Let's all play nice" threads never work.

[seemslikeadream]

5. I thought Kucinich WAS the frontrunner at DU

[caseycoon]

16. He's MY frontrunner... LOL! n/t

[Hekate]

6. Works for me. There are days I'm ready to quit this place. Trouble is...

...those of us ready to join you have already made our own pleas for peace or seconded the motion of others for it.

Like I said, there are days...

Thanks for the effort anyway. It can't hurt and eventually it might help.

Hekate

[Karmadillo]

7. LOL

nt

[Lerkfish]

9. yeah, PLease why can't we all just get in line behind the eventual winner?

why do we have to actually disagree instead of moving lockstep towards one candidate?

cmon, I"m going to CRY!

[Jade Fox]

10. I assume a great deal of it is the work of trolls......

This is an influential board, and there are those who get paid to disrupt just such a board.

That said, their are always those willing to leap on some tiny, perceived in perfection of a candidate they don't like.

[nancyharris]

17. Sorry to burst your bubble

but this board has zero influence with the Democratic Party

[Jade Fox]

22. Sorry to burst yours....

but I wasn't necessarily talking about influencing the Democratic Party (although Elizabeth Edwards and Kerry family members have posted on DU), just Democrats.

The Rove-controlled Republicans did pay people to disrupt boards like this one. Is it still going on? I'd guess it is.

[guruoo]

40. No doubt about it.

I now know why they could afford to let Karl go

[blm]

12. WWHD? Hillary swiftboats with RW smears, but, can't tell the truth about her, tho?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[mtnsnake]

19. Over the last 2 yrs, you've been responsible for this as much or more than anyone else on this board

You're like a broken record with the way you repeat the same BS, propaganda, and innuendo over and over and over about the Clintons, with high hopes that a small percentage of people will start believing your gossip from the sheer effects of repetition alone.

[blm]

34. Big diff between gossip and historic record you want to PRETEND is just gossip

And you act as if Hillary, Bill and their loyal team have no responsibility for THEIR actions over the years that have benefitted the Bushes and their cromies since 1993 - but concerned INDIVIDUALS on a democratic message board somehow have influence over the media and the matters that effect us EVERY DAY.

Did you see blm in front of a slew of cameras repeating a RW smear against a Democrat being attacked with a lie or did you see Hillary Clinton finding a slew of cameras to join a RW smear against a Democrat being lied about by the Bush machine?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

WHO is responsible for the promotion of RW smear? Not me - not EVER. Hillary beats me by a mile in that regard.

[cuke]

45. It's not "gossip". It's simply untrue

"Did you see blm in front of a slew of cameras repeating a RW smear against a Democrat being attacked with a lie or did you see Hillary Clinton finding a slew of cameras to join a RW smear against a Democrat being lied about by the Bush machine?"

Neither. Hillary didn't "find a slew of cameras". They found her and they asked her and she answered by saying it was "inappropriate". I'm sure Kerry was devestated

:sarcasm:

[blm]

46. The cameras were there KNOWING ahead of time she was sticking the knife in Kerry

Why pretend? Not everyone on DU is an impressionable political neophyte.

[cuke]

48. So now you can read other people's minds.

Yeah, I believe ya!

[blm]

49. We heard the leak about it here at DU before it happened.

And, yeah - some people are easy to figure out.

[cuke]

50. So it wasn't "gossip", it was a "leak"

Uh huh. Please, do go on (and on and on and on...)

[blm]

52. Gossip that Hillary was going to throw Kerry under the bus? Uh...she DID.

Do go on pretending she didn't.

More people are waking up to the continuing the coziness and who it ends up benefitting - and it certainly ISN'T Democrats or democracy.


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[cuke]

55. I'm sure Kerry was absolutely crushed by the "inappropriate bus"

I think Kerry is a little stronger than that

[blm]

57. Didn't say he was crushed by what she said - but she made sure her poodle Schumer

who was running the DSCC at the time told candidates that Kerry had to be pushed over or he'd hurt their campaigns.

A lie.

It was all about Kerry spending more money supporting candidate races and making inroads with all the candidates he had spent time for in 2005 and 2006.

Keep playing pretend. Few here at DU will play along that far. Most of us knew EXACTLY what her intentions were - and it was all about her 2008 run.

See - some of us had known for years by then that Hillary2008 was operational long ago:

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/


http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

[mtnsnake]

59. I love how you always blame the Clintons for Kerry's horrible loss to an imbecile

Kerry needed no help in losing to Bush, who was the worst president in history. He did it all on his own, blm. You always accuse others of using rightwing talking points, well that's all you do when you blame the Clintons for Kerry's pathetic campaign. You wanna blame someone besides Kerry himself? Try Edwards who turned out to be nothing near the asset Kerry thought he'd be when he picked him as his second choice for his VP running mate behind McCain. lol

[cuke]

63. She thinks Kerry lost because Hillary said his joke was inappropriate

One problem - that happened after Kerry's election was stolen

[blm]

68. I never said that - that's more of your misdirection.

The only reason Kerry isn't in the oval office today is because the RNC spent their four years before 2004 election day securing control of every level of the election process where the votes are allowed, cast and counted while the DNC spent their four years LETTING the RNC do it what they wanted, uncountered.

[blm]

69. And both Clintons spent 2001-2006 firmly supporting that imbecile's decisions

on terrorism and Iraq war.

And Bill even spent his 2004 book tour DEFENDING BUsh from the attacks on his decisions.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Why would Bill have spent all that effort defending an imbecile like Bush?

[AlCzervik]

13. it ain't beanbag.

it's not hard to ignore the smears, me, i'm going to try and see as many of candidates in person as possible, what posters say about candidates makes no difference to me either way.

[itsrobert]

14. DK and JE seem to be the DU frontrunners

Must of the smearing is Obama supporters attacking Hillary and Clinton supporters attacking Obama.

[nickgutierrez]

15. I wish they would focus their attacks on the Republicans.

There seems to be at least one more than fitting target, as Senator Biden pointed out in the last debate.

I personally think Huckabee's going to end up getting their nomination, but nobody sees him coming right now.

[rodeodance]

18. very very little related to issues-that is the problem

[Catherine Vincent]

20. I seem to recall some "swiftboating" from you. n/t

[Clintonista2]

21. You're one of the most negative posters on the board. nm.

[emilyg]

23. You? of all people. HaHa.

[caseycoon]

24. I don't comment on smears... just go on to something else.

There are a lot of ridiculous 'smear' comments, but there are also valid criticisms. Those I want to know about. I still don't usually comment, though. I don't even even comment when my candidate is smeared. I'm here to learn, not fight.

Well, I DO comment or yell & scream, but only my computer & my cats can hear me. LOL!

[Vincardog]

26. Not if it means settling for a Corporatist enabling DLC DINO

[LWolf]

27. "Smearing" and "Swiftboating"

are not the same as adamantly opposing.

I adamantly oppose the two so-called "front runners," and will continue to do and to say so all the way to the convention.

Opposition isn't going to go away.

If you'd like to hear less opposition, you might start more positive threads about the rest of the candidates, many of whom poll higher than the top two here on DU, but get buried under the avalanche of posts from the minority.

When the threads on the front page of "GD Politics" reflect the actual levels of support for candidates from DUers, those of us who oppose the "front runners" might spend less time discussing them.

Or, conversely, if you find the majority of those posts to be oppositional in nature, it might just be because the majority of DUers oppose them, and therefore be an expected part of the discussion.

[ElizabethDC]

28. Aren't you one of the people who's been posting negative things about Sen. Clinton recently?

Did you think we hadn't noticed, or are you just pledging not to do it again in the future?

[seriousstan]

30. The OP must think the smears against his candidate are working.

[Lerkfish]

31. "did you think we hadn't noticed"

you sound as if you are in a group that keeps track of the posts of others and works in a concerted effort.

on the surface, that sounds like a conspiracy of sorts. surely I must be misreading that.

[ElizabethDC]

33. Well, I'm in no such group, so yes you are misreading that.

By "we" I meant DUers and, more specifically, Hillary supporters on DU. Because I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed it. I haven't discussed it with anybody, though.

[cuke]

51. You mean like that site that may not be named

where some DUers put others on a Complicity Watch List?

You would never do such a thing, right?

[cuke]

64. *crickets*

Gee, I can't imagine why

[Rabo Karabekian]

29. Well, If they Stood for Something

Keep it positive? Name some positives about Hillary b/c I can't find too many.

p.s. This board is kind of inter-left warfare, I doubt there are too many dittoheads here.

[cuke]

54. Here ya go

Just a few from her Senate career alone

forced * to increase funding for Ryan White Care Act which helps people with AIDS

got Plan B accessible OTC

helped secure the $20billion to rebuild after 9/11,

fought to provide compensation to the families of the victims,

grants for hard-hit small businesses, and health care for front line workers at Ground Zero.

She also passed legislation to track the health status of our troops so that conditions like Gulf War Syndrome would no longer be misdiagnosed.

She is an original sponsor of legislation that expanded health benefits to members of the National Guard and Reserves,

introduced legislation to tie Congressional salary increases to an increase in the minimum wage,

She worked to strengthen the Children's Health Insurance Program, which increased coverage for children in low income and working families.

She authored legislation that has been enacted to improve quality and lower the cost of prescription drugs,

she worked to ensure the safety of prescription drugs for children, with legislation now included in the Best Pharmaceuticals for Children Act,

legislation to help schools address environmental hazards.

proposed expanding access to child care.

passed legislation that will bring more qualified teachers into classrooms and more outstanding principals to lead our schools.

one of the original cosponsors of the Prevention First Act to increase access to family planning.

Her fight with the Bush Administration ensured that Plan B, an emergency contraceptive, will be available to millions of American women and will reduce the need for abortions.

[AlCzervik]

32. nice glass house you have there, might want to buy some windex and let the sun shine in.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3660509

[Tejanocrat]

35. That's pretty rich coming from a person who relentlessly attacks Edwards and his supporters.

[Forkboy]

36. How many personalities do you have?

[TeamJordan23]

37. Pretty hypocritical since you have many anti-Obama threads. nm

[luckyleftyme2]

39. HOW WE CAN LOSE

THEIR WILL BE MANY WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING POSING AS CONCERNED DEMOCRATS OR INDEPENDENTS.
WE HAVE ONE OF THE BEST FIELD OF CANDIDATES IN YEARS,NOT ONE BUT AT LEAST 3 CAN BEAT ANYTHING
THE RIGHT CAN PUT UP.
THE ONLY WAY WE CAN LOSE IS TO TURN THIS FORUM INTO A CAT FIGHT. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE RIGHT WILL TRY TO DO.
WHEN PAT ROBINSON THREW HIS SUPPORT TO GIULIANI HE PROBABLY GAVE US ANOTHER 5% EDGE.

[Basileus Basileon]

41. You, on the front page of GDP: "Clinton campaign top advisors childishly insult Obama supporters."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3708162&mesg_id=3708162

[BootinUp]

43. rofl

:rofl:

[Tejanocrat]

44. Freerepublic treats Ghouliani only slightly worse that Hillary is treated here. I wonder if there is

a common explanation?

[beaconess]

47. I would!!!

[laureloak]

53. Maybe because BO and HC fans smeared the other candidates?

[TheFarseer]

56. I'm not going to sit around and pretend

all our candidates are equally good. If you want to vote for a letter, go ahead. I'm voting on issues.

[yardwork]

71. Good response.

[Odin2005]

58. Methinks #2 (Obama) and #3 (Edwards) need to cut #1 down to size. n/t.

[ginchinchili]

60. I suspect that you're failing to distinguish between smearing and

constructive criticism. It's easy for you to call for a pledge "to keep it positive" when the candidate you're supporting is leading in the polls, particularly since she's showing some signs of slipping in those polls. I've noticed that many of Hillary's supporters think all criticism of their candidate is just an attempt to smear her.

[dugggy]

62. K & R

[Baby Snooks]

65. Truth is smear?

Just because some do not believe "might possibly win" is sufficient reason to just automatically support the "front runners" doesn't mean everyone else will. Or should. Some of us would rather have the BEST candidate who can not only win but represent ALL OF US. Which Clinton and Obaba have made increasingly clear they will not. They're both pandering to everyone but mainstream progressive Democrats.

You can call that a smear if you want. I call it truth.

[Auntie Bush]

66. I will will if you will...but if I remember correctly you have done your share.

Or am I thinking of someone else? :shrug: I don't usually make many negative comments...but I've been known to make a few. I really make an effort not to and to post positive comments about my favorite candidates. (Hillary and Biden) However sometimes it's necessary to go negative in defending ones own candidate from attacks from others.

I can't see attacking a fellow Dem and then later having to vote for him/her.

[CyberPieHole]

67. LOL...Pot. Kettle. Puce.

I pledge to "keep it positive" for as long as you do. How's that?

[PVnRT]

72. Obama eats puppies after Hillary kills and cooks them

It's true! Someone wrote about it in a blog, and any blog I like must be true.

[Arugula Latte]

73. The time to derail a disastrous Hillary nomination is now.

We have to do what we can.