We need Biden's integrity and experience

[PatSeg]

From the Des Moines Register:

The Nov. 23 article regarding Joe Biden says that Sen. Biden is often described as being verbose, prone to blathering and loquacious ("Biden's Heartache, Past Burdens Can't Defuse Heart, Ideas"). While Biden does have quite a lot to say, none of what he tells us should go unsaid.

Biden speaks from his gut with honesty and he answers questions completely. He does not dance around or wander off the question but answers it in detail. Biden is highly respected at home and abroad and is chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, of which he has been a member for 30-plus years. Experience in foreign relations is something we desperately need in the next leader of our country, and his experience does not end with foreign relations.

He authored the Violence Against Women Act and has been instrumental in the writing of important criminal laws, which include the notification to communities when a convicted sex offender moves into their neighborhoods.

I hope more Iowans will take the opportunity to meet with and hear Sen. Biden as he campaigns across Iowa in the coming month.

- Fran Henderson,

Newton.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071201/OPINION04/712010304/1038/Opinion

[K Gardner]

1. From the number of articles posted here, it seems Biden is

getting an increasing amount of "free press" in Iowa and other places. That is good.

[gateley]

4. And in all sincerity I hope that holds true for the other non Three as well --

That's all we're asking - for our candidates to be given a fair chance to be heard regardless of how much money they have in the war chest.

That being said, I feel that many people who DO hear Biden, will see what we supporters do.

Excellent post, tsegat - thanks!!

[NI4NI]

21. exactly right!

it's in the best interest of the party, and the country, because each Democratic candidate has their own individual positions, and all with great merit.

It's got to be tough on undecideds and independents who are all more than one issue voters; But,it sure beats the hell out of having to choose any one of the Reptilian Party candidates based solely on fear- mongering and bigotry alone.

[iconocrastic]

48. He's got more integrity than any other plagiarist on record.

LOL

Anyway, he's lost this thing already.

We don't need integrity, we need a will to power.

Hillary has it. The other's don't. Simple calculation.

Case closed.

[NI4NI]

58. "We don't need integrity, we need a will to power"

We've already had 7 years without integrity, and dangerously far too much will to power with ChuckleNutz and Cheney.


As for Biden being a plagiarist,

God damn some frickin' young college freshman in a first year Syracuse Law School writing class to hell for only submitting one single footnote when multiple citations were required whenever citing pages from a legal article.

Cut his nuts off!!!

And damn the Syracuse School of Law and the Delaware State Bar Association for clearing Biden of plagiarism charges.
Have they no integrity?

Along with Mike Dukakis for immediateley firing his own 1988 campaign's senior aide who didn't publicize the many times Biden factually credited his remarks to Kinnock previously; The very same remarks he failed to do so in his Iowa speech. Mike D had no loyalty!

(do I need a sarcasm tag yet)

And as for your simple calculation:

The only thing I see Senator Clinton having more of than the other candidates is campaign funding, of which I don't begrudge her because that's the big part of the game.
And if she is the DEM nominee, I'll still vote for her without holding my nose.

[gateley]

67. Well, hello!

Welcome to DU :hi:

Hope to see you around!

[dtotire]

2. Biden's integrity and experience

He would pick up votes from Independents and some Republicans

[PatSeg]

7. This is true

With Biden as the nominee, we might see a landslide victory. He would wipe the floor with any republican candidate.

"Before a Democrat can lead, he or she must get elected," he said. "We know the Republican playbook. They'll say we're weak. They'll play on people's fears, not their hopes. Ask yourself: Who do you want in the ring to take their best shots and then give it back, better, harder, and faster than they gave it?"

From yesterday's DNC speech.

[ginchinchili]

8. And a strong victory would give Democrats a strong mandate.

Something that would be extremely useful in cleaning up Bush's mess and getting this country back on course.

[PatSeg]

32. Oh my, I just said that on another thread

Having a clear mandate is essential for the next president. He/she needs to have the country behind him/her to bring about real change.

[ginchinchili]

35. Great minds think a like...lol.

[PatSeg]

57. There are a number of us here

who seem to be on the same wavelength a great deal of the time!

[keroro gunsou]

3. something that occured to me

obama / biden?

youth and experience.. i don't see too much of a downside. mr obama has the youth on his side, the energy and i think he's somewhat more personable... that's just me... and mr biden can be like an on the job mentor for the areas that the critics want to use against mr obama... in short they play to each others pros and cons...

i don't know if biden wants to be in the passaenger's seat, but it beats not getting to ride in the car... as it were.

[gateley]

6. That's been floated around here before - and many feel it would be an unbeatable

ticket (and I agree). I'd prefer Biden as Number One for a variety of reasons, but I'm sure you can see that. :7

Interesting that you note Obama being "personable" -- as is Biden. TWO personable people in the White House -- two people who the citizens actually LIKED. That would be SO healing!

[rucky]

55. In no particular order...

many other folks are coming to the same conclusion. it would really be an unbeatable ticket.

[1corona4u]

5. Thanks....I love news from Iowa...

I really do.

[Sadie4629]

9. Integrity???

Biden is a plagiarist.

[jillan]

10. We have another right wing wacko on DU!

Have you ever heard of a smear campaign?

google - John Sasso and educate yourself.

[1corona4u]

12. Well, not only that, but,

There won't be much for them to attack him on, especially when the public finds out that he was cleared of the plagiarism charges back in 1998, by the Delaware Supreme Court, and Joe never made a spectacle out of his vindication. People will realize that swift-boating has been going on for a long, long time.

[Sadie4629]

19. Is everyone who disagrees about your candidate

a RW whacko?

Whatever.:eyes:

[gateley]

26. Yep. Pretty much.

Just kidding. A lot of people on this blog strongly disagree with my opinion of my candidate, but that's America, right? Have at it! :hi:

[Sadie4629]

29. Hey, who doesn't love a good debate?

:hi:

[ginchinchili]

11. A plagiarist is someone who repeatedly plagiarizes.

Biden failed to give attribution to a line he'd borrowed from a British politician, a line he'd been using and had always given attribution before. He forgot to do so once, the Dukakis campaign picked up on it and slipped the video tape to the news media. It's not like Biden was trying to get some gain by leaving out who originally used the line. There was no gain to be gotten. He forgot, and nothing would have been made of it had the Dukakis campaign not made it an issue. Maybe there was a reason Dukakis lost.

[Sadie4629]

17. There was more than one incident on non-attribution

Once is a mistake; after that it's habit.

"Democratic presidential candidate Joseph R. Biden Jr., a U.S. senator from Delaware, was driven from the nomination battle after delivering, without attribution, passages from a speech by British Labor party leader Neil Kinnock. A barrage of subsidiary revelations by the press also contributed to Biden's withdrawal: a serious plagiarism incident involving Biden during his law school years; the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record at a New Hampshire campaign event; and the discovery of other quotations in Biden's speeches pilfered from past Democratic politicians."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/biden.htm

[ginchinchili]

34. Are you aware that he was cleared of these? Does that make any difference to you?

He is in politics, you know. Politicians get accused of a lot of crap. If cleared of the charges, that should be the end of it, unless the discredited charges serve you politically.

[1corona4u]

40. Yes, there was...both of which he was cleared of

please read, and file this under case closed;



http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD1230F93AA15756C0A96F948260

[Steely_Dan]

20. From Another Post

The plagiarism charge against Senator Biden is really unfair.  Here are the real facts people:  During the 1988 presidential campaign, Senator Biden gave a stump speech in Iowa in which he incorporated a passage from the British Labor Party leader, Mr. Neil Kinnock.  On this particular occasion in Iowa, Senator Biden failed to attribute the passage to Mr. Kinnock.  Michael Dukakis' campaign manager, John Sasso, picked up on this and ran an attack ad against Biden based on his failure to attribute the passage to Kinnock.  An investigation into the matter showed that Senator Biden had faithfully attributed the passage to Mr. Kinnock on all previous occasions where he had given the speech.  There was no intent on the part of the Senator to claim the passage as his own.  Dukakis eventually fired John Sasso over the misinformation presented in the attack ad.  Senator Biden, however, was unable to overcome the damage from the negative attack ad and had to withdraw from the race.  He has been labeled a plagiarist by the uninformed ever since.


HOW LONG MUST A GOOD MAN PAY?   He didn't pass the blame for his mistake - he accepted responsibility, dropped out of the race and went back to the Senate to work on landmark legislation like the Violence Against Women Act and the Biden Crime Bill.  He chairs the Foreign Relations Committee, is a member of the Judiciary Committee, and is one of the most respected Senate voices on drug policy, crime prevention, and civil liberties.  He blocked Bork's nomination, stood up to Milosevic, and has developed a plan for Iraq.  

Americans will forgive a million mistakes from their rock star candidates but penalize a decent man for one.

[Sadie4629]

22. What about his law school plagiarism? n/t

[ginchinchili]

36. He was cleared.

In fact, nobody seems to know who made the charge.

[1corona4u]

42. Again,

please read and file under case closed;

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD1230F93AA15756C0A96F948260

[HughMoran]

13. So he's no longer the reviled DLC-like troll that he used to be portrayed as here?

I'm confused. I happen to like him, but he was persona-non-grata here for the longest time - what changed?

[1corona4u]

15. My guess...

people who are willing to look beyond the superficial crap, to the more important things he brings to the table. At least, that's how I feel about it.

[HughMoran]

18. But I always saw through the BS

Why are there people here who are more likely to support a South American socialist leader than a decent and honest Democratic Senator? I don't "change with the wind" - why should I believe that others can change their stripes so easily (this is obviously not directed at you as I am not historically familiar with your ID)?

[jillan]

16. People started looking at his record instead of listening to each other

Joe Biden is a Hard-Core Liberal.

http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Joe_Biden.htm

[dugggy]

14. Touche!

n/t

[Sadie4629]

23. We do need someone who praises

the personal hygiene of people of color.:eyes:

[jillan]

24. Tell me you are not for real,

:rofl:

[Sadie4629]

25. The Obama remark was stupid

We have better candidates than Biden.

[jillan]

30. Fine - then don't vote for him....

Nobody cares :)

[1corona4u]

43. Obama's made some pretty stupid remarks himself...

read his first book.

[saltpoint]

28. Joe Biden apologized for that comment and Barack Obama accepted his

apology.

So should you, IMO. An electoral college map would be very inviting for a Biden-Obama ticket.

I would not only support it, but would stand in a howling gale for days on end to cast a vote in its behalf.

[Sadie4629]

31. That says more about Obama's class & graciousness

than it does about Biden. If Biden had engaged his brain before his mouth he wouldn't have had to apologize for anything. After the last 6-3/4 years, we need a President who will think before he speaks.

[saltpoint]

33. Now, Sadie, don't be silly.

Apologies are tough unless someone has the bearing and character to make one.

Biden did that.

Obama accepted.

That's where things stand.

[1corona4u]

44. Let's look at what the actual people involved said, shall we...

and even Jesse Jackson weighed in on it;

Indian-Americans
In July 2006, while speaking to a group of Indian-Americans in Delaware, Biden stated in regards to his relationship with the Indian-American community: "I've had a great relationship. In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian Americans — moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking." His comment was caught on C-SPAN. When asked to explain further, Biden spokesperson Margaret Aitken stated "The Senator admires, supports and respects the Indian-American community... The point Senator Biden was making is that there has been a vibrant Indian-American community in Delaware for decades. It has primarily been made up of engineers, scientists and physicians, but more recently, middle-class families are moving into Delaware and purchasing family-run small businesses..." The Indian-American activist who was on the receiving end of Biden's comment later called the media coverage of Biden's comments "completely unfair," and stated that he was "100 percent behind (Biden) because he did nothing wrong."

Barack Obama
On January 31, 2007, Biden took his first steps into the presidential campaign, but his comments about other candidates overshadowed his entrance. Biden especially drew criticism in the popular press for his evaluation of Senator Barack Obama; Biden was quoted in the New York Observer as saying: "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, ... I mean, that's a storybook, man." The audio of the interview, posted on the Observer's website, reportedly includes a significant pause after "African-American". Biden sought to clear up the controversy by apologizing to Obama on the same day and repeated his regret on The Daily Show that same evening: "Look, the other part of this thing that got me in trouble is using the word clean. I should have said fresh." Some media observers labeled Biden's announcement a "launch pad disaster." Jesse Jackson telephoned Biden and reported afterward "Senator Biden...assured me that he regrets that his remarks were misinterpreted. He was serious and contrite. To me, this was a gaffe, not a statement about his philosophy or ideology."



And, another CASE CLOSED file.

[saltpoint]

45. Damn it, 1corona4u, there you go again using factual analysis and

actual quotations in context to bolster your claim.

:thumbsup:

[1corona4u]

46. LOL...I know, right....how dare I...

I just think, they let it go, so should everyone else. No sense in

[1corona4u]

37. LOL...Ah...Jeez....no one can say it like you OC...

no one.

[saltpoint]

38. Hi, 1corona4u. Those palm trees! I see on the weather charts that half

the Great Plains is under snow and ice, with the Great Lakes region next in line.

And then you put up those palm trees.

Nice to see you this afternoon on the boards.

A close cousin, the adult son of a now passed on Indiana delegate to the Mondale, Carter, and Clinton conventions, thinks it should be either Edwards or Biden, and preferably both.

This is my closest cousin -- one of 2 or 3 who showed me a lot of ropes. I was taken out to pound yardsigns in people's yards, and nail them up on telephone poles, then later came the envelope stuffing and phone-bank work.

So I have trusted his comments and instincts a long time. He and I volunteered in much younger years for Robert F. Kennedy's victory in the 1968 Indiana primary.

Iowa Democrats are going to get a whole-hog blast of Biden, Obama, Edwards, Clinton, Richardson, Gravel, Kucinich, and Dodd in the next 3-4 weeks.

I think the ground is shifting big time and that Biden's shot at the first three slots in Iowa is for real.

[1corona4u]

47. Thanks for your hard work... and so do I...

[ginchinchili]

39. My guess is that Biden will ask Obama to be his running mate

should Biden win the nomination. As I've said about the ticket before, the Republicans wouldn't stand a chance.

[saltpoint]

41. I think you're right. You were on here early saying so about just such a

ticket, too.

I think if Biden is the nominee, Obama would be a terrific veep choice, and that the two of them would crush the Pukes.

[saltpoint]

27. Integrity and experience in a U.S. president, especially after 8 years of

Dumbya, would be welcome.

Biden exceeds those criteria.

I agree with your point that he would offer integrity and experience, that those two elements are sorely missing at the moment and must be restored if we're to re-establish our country as an ethical entity and effective governing body, BUT --

-- Biden embodies those elements prior to his ambition to lead as president.

It is almost a visible thing in him from the things he has said over the years and the way he speaks and listens now.

As good as he is as a public servant, and as effective, he's even better as a human being.

None of those attributes could be made convincingly about Mr. Bush.

[eridani]

49. Yes, for foreign affairs, not domestic affairs

That way he could use his negotiation skills for something other than fucking over people whose medical expenses drive them into bankruptcy.

[saltpoint]

50. Your image of Senator Biden waking up each morning with the intent of

"fucking over people" somehow does not align with the perception of those who have respected him for some decades now.

Perhaps you have mischaracterized the man.

[eridani]

52. I'll change he mind when he acts to repeal that gawdawful bankruptcy bill n/t

[saltpoint]

54. Then you must also believe that Russ Feingold intended to

"fuck over people" by casting a vote for John Ashcroft for Attorney General.

Is that it? One vote you don't like and a Senator gets a life sentence in your prison?

[eridani]

73. It depends what the vote is on

The bankruptcy bill is harming large numbers of average people.

[saltpoint]

75. In a matter of speaking, it can't depend on "what the vote is on" because

legislation is introduced from all angles, from all Senators and House Reps.

If a candidate is consistently repugnant to his or her constituents, those voters can show up at the polls and make their voices heard.

A liberal in Indiana, for example, may have to settle for Senator Evan Bayh because his father, Senator Birch Bayh was tossed out of office in a general election by voters who preferred Dan Quayle.

Point being, by playing to the middle, Bayh the younger survives elections where his father, the far more liberal Senator, could not.

Biden has perfect pitch in Delaware and his constituents return him to Congress at every turn, and have for decades.

His electability quotient in a general election would be sky high.

[1corona4u]

51. Well....

when we all have universal health care, that's won't be an issue, now will it.

[eridani]

53. True, but Biden is not for universal health care either n/t

[Froward69]

56. again you are mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jilpix0_6P8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA8HC_IBhcc&mode=related&search
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhR4PyJIvoo

Joe Biden’s CARE plan proposes four essential steps toward universal health care:

1. Cover all Children
2. Access for Adults
3. Reinsurance For Catastrophic Cases
4. Encouraging Prevention and Modernization

http://www.joebiden.com/issues?id=0003

unlike hillary and edwards' mandatory health insurance. plans

[PatSeg]

60. Someone from Canada has posted here about

Canada's universal healthcare and showed how it took decades to get to where they are today. Universal healthcare did not suddenly appear overnight. It was a gradual process. Biden's plan is a good first step in the right direction.

[ginchinchili]

69. He's going about it the way that will get real results. He's a pragmatist.

[PatSeg]

70. With the mess we're in, we need a pragmatist

[eridani]

76. "Access" is bloody damned well not HEALTH CARE!

How is it "pragmatic" to propose spending huge sums of public money to subsidize private insurers who refuse to pay up 1/3 or the time going to be cheaper than just covering everybody, no exceptions?

You can't have modernization of data handling with hundreds of thousands of different systems--keep that and you keep the situation which give us the highest medical error rate in the industrialized world.

Anyone who thinks that prevention will save money is delusional. It's the very success of several generations of effective prevention that allow people to live long enough to join the most medically expensive age demographic. A concrete example--I'm genetically prone to Type II diabetes, getting the trait from my grandmother through my father. When my grandmother was my age, she'd been dead for nine years. When my father was my age, he'd been dead for two years. I started aggressive treatment with metformin and a couple of other drugs well before any symptoms appeared, and I benefit from much improved knowledge of how diet and exercise affect insulin resistance. My a1c values haven't gone over 7.0 yet. Now, which of these three generations is going to cost the system the most money on a lifetime basis?

[Froward69]

77. well The AMA is "delusional" then

Anyone who thinks that prevention will save money is delusional.
how mis guided are you?
the W.H.O. agrees about prevention.
the idea of prevention goes back further than Ben Franklin. "An ounce of PREVENTION is worth a pound of cure." Universal health care is not immediately attainable. Just like radicals on both sides of the isle you would cut off your nose to spite your face. you will sacrifice real change in favor of immediate, unattainable Ideals.

[eridani]

78. We've already done the sorts of preventions advocated by W.H.O

That's why we live long enough to join the most medically expensive demographic. You didn't answer my question. Among my grandmother, my father and me, who will cost the system most on a lifetime basis?

[ginchinchili]

61. He is, but he doesn't think we can go from where we are now...

to universal health care. He believes that the first priority is to get everyone covered and to work our way toward universal health care. He doesn't think universal health care can make it into law right now, and he's probably right, but his program would have everyone covered. Biden's a pragmatist, or as Kennedy put it, an idealist without illusions. As deeply in debt as our nation currently is, with foreign governments owning the majority of that debt, we have to be very smart about how we proceed from here, or we could find ourselves in more trouble than we thought possible in this country. It's perhaps the biggest reason I'm supporting Joe Biden, he's the only one who has convinced me that he's very much aware of the precarious situation our country is in, on many fronts. It's a harder sell, but it's the right one.

[eridani]

74. If the problem with fixing health care is debt, the only solution is single payer

--which by sheerest coincidence happens to be the CHEAPEST possible solution--far cheaper than the bandaid proposals put forward by every candidate but Kucinich. Given that we now spend twices as much as any other industrial country (all of which provide health care to everyone, no exceptions), cost is a problem only for those plans which call for shovelling huge bucketfuls of public cash into the maw or private insurance. It's simple--just spend the money we are paying to insurance companies to deny people care on paying providers to actually provide the care.

We are already paying for universal health care; we just aren't getting it. --Dennis Kucinich.

[ginchinchili]

59. How on earth can you blame Biden for someone's inability to pay their medical expenses?

Your perspective is twisted to the point of snapping. Do not blame Joe Biden for people's inability to pay their bills. Bankruptcy is a grossly inefficient way to pay for medical bills. Health care reform is the way to deal with our difficulty in paying medical bills. In case you haven't noticed, our country is in debt to the tune of about 9 trillion dollars, and despite Dick Cheney saying deficits don't matter, they really do. We can't just throw money at every problem that comes up because contrary to American belief, there are limits to how much money our government can spend. Really. Criticize Biden for his vote if you want, but don't blame him for people's inability to pay their bills, medical or otherwise.

Biden voted in favor of bankruptcy reform and yet all the Democratic candidates have been totally mum on this issue. If it was really the burning issue you make it out to be, why isn't Edwards, Clinton, or Obama leading the charge to save the middle class from our current bankruptcy laws? It's because it's a red herring. You know it, I know it, and hopefully the readers of this thread know it. Biden makes such a strong candidate and has so few weaknesses that you feel the need to make something out of nothing because he threatens your candidate, who isn't even addressing this obsession of yours, and it doesn't matter who your candidate is because none of them are addressing it. Out of all the debates, it hasn't been mentioned once, not even the Utube debate when the people got to ask the questions. If this issue is so important, why are you supporting a man or woman who ignores it? Instead of promoting bankruptcy reform, you're just using it to attack Joe Biden, which exposes your fraudulent use of this issue.

Here's an idea! The Democrats are currently in power in Congress. Let them write up new legislation. I'm certain President Biden will be more than happy to oblige his Party by signing it into law. Problem solved. Now try some other angle of attack, because obviously this is not an issue that voters are up in arms about, unless they're desperate to find something to criticize Joe Biden on. Face it, he's better qualified than your candidate and has a better chance of winning, and winning big, in the general election, because the few people who really are concerned about bankruptcy law knows that if Biden gets the nomination he'll win the presidency, the Democrats' majorities in the House and Senate will increase, and if Democrats want the bankruptcy laws changed, it's a done deal. Problem solved. You might as well attack him for getting hair plugs from when he had surgery for a brain aneurysm. I've seen that too.

[PatSeg]

63. You know, its funny

When I watch local events on TV and the Internet, no one asks about the bankruptcy bill, yet it is brought up here daily by a small handful of people. If this is such a divisive issue, why aren't more people bringing it up?

I think it is a weak attempt to make something a big issue that pales in comparison to the far greater ones that we face.

[ginchinchili]

68. Like I said, it's a red herring.

Like the ones I have all over my boxers! :D

[PatSeg]

71. Thanks for sharing!

Just what I needed to know...........:crazy:

[calteacherguy]

62. Yes we do, and we are fortunate to have him.

We have many excellent candi ates. It becomes a balancing act...weighing the positives of each one.

I'm for Obama, but I have great respect for Biden. I could enthusiastically support him...primarily because of a traits he shares with Obama: honesty, integrity, sound judgment.

Obama has a bit more fire, though. And it's time for the world to change.

[PatSeg]

64. It is imperative that we change and change quickly

if we are going to survive. There really is too much at stake to get petty, but some people don't see it.

I'm for Biden, but I have great respect for Obama!!! :hi:

[phillyliberal]

65. absolutely

I have been saying this for months... Joe is the best candidate out of the entire pool.


I honestly think he will surprise everyone.. just watch

[phillyliberal]

66. ALSO

LET ME ADD THAT JOE IS MORE ELECTABLE THAN BARACK AND HILLARY.

There is no denying this. I have talked to many independents and they have a very positive opinion on Joe--- and dislike obama and clinton.

[TeamJordan23]

72. Obama/Biden is my ticket. nm