Which candidate is perfect?

[LoZoccolo]

[MadBadger]

1. A resounding none?

[terrya]

2. Same answer as in GD: none of them are.

[ulysses]

3. none.

Why are you asking for perfection?

[LoZoccolo]

5. If I post about who I like, I want to be able to not have someone go...

..."yeah but they did _____" and have it be even one thing that they did. I want them to have not even one thing bad about them.

[ulysses]

6. good luck with that, then.

:shrug:

[stevedeshazer]

8. Nader

:rofl:

[seasat]

4. Me of course

I agree with myself on all the issues I like best.

Please send your contributions to Seasat's beer fund errr... I mean campaign.

[Think82]

7. Tell you what. Biden is close.

Anybody ever watch "The West Wing" or old Jimmy Stewart movies?

[MadBadger]

9. I love West Wing...however

He still voted for the IWR. While that doesnt mean I couldnt vote for him, which I could, that means he isnt perfect. Plus, as a candidate, those plagerism charges hurt.

[LoZoccolo]

11. ulysses, if you're still watching, this is the kind of thing I wouldn't want to have happen.

I wouldn't want someone to be like "yes, but...".

[ulysses]

37. well, if we're including fictional characters,

Bartlet was wrong in the end on school vouchers.

Why the concern with "yes, but..." reactions? I'd have thought you were of the "none are perfect, get over it" camp.

[LoZoccolo]

43. When someone says "yes, but...", they are instantly disqualified.

You cannot vote for them.

[ulysses]

45. in what world is this true?

Or are you trying to make a point?

[LoZoccolo]

47. If that were not true...

...then why would people say "yes but..."?

[ulysses]

51. because issues matter.

People have a valid "yes, but" concerning Kucinich over his past abortion stance, because reproductive rights matter. People have a valid "yes, but" concerning Clinton and Edwards over their IWR votes, because the Iraq war matters. People have a valid "yes, but" concerning Obama over McClurkin (sp?) because equality of rights matters.

You know all of this, of course, and are making an oblique point. Go ahead and trip the trigger before this gets old.

[1corona4u]

13. There were no plagiarism charges. EVER.

Get it straight;


Professional Board Clears Biden In Two Allegations of Plagiarism
Print Save Share
Del.icio.usDiggFacebookNewsvinePermalinkAP
Published: May 29, 1989
LEAD: Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. was cleared of allegations that he committed plagiarism in law school by a panel under the authority of the Delaware Supreme Court, The News Journal reported today.

Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. was cleared of allegations that he committed plagiarism in law school by a panel under the authority of the Delaware Supreme Court, The News Journal reported today.

The Wilmington newspaper also said Mr. Biden has received a clean bill of health from his doctor after two life-threatening brain aneurysms in 1988.

The Delaware Democrat withdrew from the 1988 Presidential campaign after accusations that he had quoted the British Labor Party leader, Neil Kinnock, without attribution and had plagiarized an article while attending Syracuse University's law school.

Mr. Biden called his failure to attribute the quotes to Mr. Kinnock an oversight.

The alleged law school plagiarism involved an essay Mr. Biden wrote in 1965 for an introductory class on legal methodology. 'A Personal Vindication'

The Senator ended his Presidential campaign Sept. 23, 1987, and, because the allegations involved his standing as a lawyer, he notified the state Supreme Court about them later that year.

The court's Board on Professional Responsibility, consisting of lawyers and non-lawyers, ruled on Dec. 21, 1987, that Mr. Biden had not violated any rules.

Mr. Biden said he decided not to publicize the ruling, which was confidential. ''I guess I had in the back of my mind . . . this was more of a personal vindication than a political one,'' he said.

But he added that he had decided to divulge the ruling because he expected ''somebody would go back someday and check. And I knew there was a hard record there.''

L. Susan Faw, independent disciplinary counsel for the board, confirmed that the ruling had cleared Mr. Biden.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD1230F93AA15756C0A96F948260

[1corona4u]

14. Obama doesn't vote on controversial issues. That, is a fact.

Thus, he is not perfect either.

[MadBadger]

15. My answer: A resounding no

I never said Obama was perfect.

[1corona4u]

21. No, but you were damn quick to slam someone else.

On false information I might add.

[MadBadger]

I'm sorry if I got the plagerism thing wrong

I personally would have no problem voting for Joe Biden at all. I love Biden. The first time I ever heard about the plagerism thing was from my mom who doenst know much about politics, but still refers to Biden as the plagerist.

I might add, I didnt slam him, I was merely pointing out that no candidate is perfect, or damn near close. They all have their faults.

[1corona4u]

25. See, this is the thing though...

it happens all the time on these boards. People repeat things they "heard", and treat them as though they are facts. It simply should not be done. To any candidate. IF I post something on the board, it's because I have gone out, and done the research myself, and I ALWAYS have the facts to back up what I am saying BEFORE I say anything.

I'm not mad at you, I just wish people would stop using false information while trying to make their candidate look better. And I mean this as a general statement, not just at you.

Yes, no candidate is perfect. I see Joe's faults too. But they are very few if you ask me. Too irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

But I will always defend Joe Biden, since so many people have it wrong. As I'm sure you will do with Obama.

[MadBadger]

26. I'm not trying to make my candidate look better

In fact, I have stated before that Obama and Biden are a very close 1/2 for me. I used to support Biden first, but then Obama joined the campaign, and I thought he really had a chance to win. So if Biden can get himself really back in this race and win some states, I may change my support. Personally though, i just dont see it happening.

[1corona4u]

29. Never say never....

;-)

[MadBadger]

32. BTW, One thing I didnt mention, because I know nothing about, is the Bankruptcy Bill

I know a lot of DUers have hated him over that one. I'm wondering what the other side has to say over it, cuz I really know nothing about this issue.

[1corona4u]

33. Here ya go...I keep it handy

LOL;

As I have posted many, many, times on this board, Joe voted for the BK bill, for women and children. Under the old BK laws, divorced women with children were the last ones to be paid, if the deadbeat dad filed a BK. Now, they are the first ones to be paid. If you ever question why Joe votes for anything, go look at the floor statements on his website. They will clearly give you an idea of where his interest were. Not in some bank, as has been previously speculated on. There's just no denying that Joe has stood up for women's rights, in a big way. As in the violence against women act, and now, the International violence against women act. But, no "bill" will ever work for all people. There are a lot of people who respect the revisions of the 2005 BK bill. I am one of them.

My best friend is about to reap the rewards of this bill. Her X has just filed a BK, after leaving her without ANY child support, for 2 children, 8 & 6, for 4 years, and just on Thursday of last week, thought that he could get out of paying her by filing a BK. Well, it's people like him that will not be able to get away with it now. He claimed to have lost his 135K yr. job, and had protested ANY request for documentation for his current financial status. Her attorney called for deposition, forcing discovery. Then came back and filed a BK. I know for a fact that he hid money, and that he is also still working, under the table. Under the new law, he will be fully investigated by the courts.

A Senator sometimes has to vote for a bad bill, if there is something in it they truly want. I believe that was Joe's dilemma on the BK bill. But you can look for yourself, and see his financial contributions from banks from 1998, and it's not very impressive.

JOSEPH R. BIDEN JR.: CAREER PROFILE (SINCE 1989)

Top Industries
The top industries supporting Joseph R. Biden Jr. are:
1 Lawyers/Law Firms $6,265,871
2 Real Estate $1,172,230
3 Retired $853,148
4 Securities & Investment $839,775
5 Misc Finance $499,470
6 Misc Business $462,641
7 Business Services $455,925
8 Health Professionals $382,275
9 TV/Movies/Music $364,666
10 Lobbyists $333,185
11 Finance/Credit Companies $294,650
12 Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $294,249
13 Pro-Israel $272,700
14 Commercial Banks $269,050
15 Education $249,725
16 Insurance $223,975
17 Retail Sales $186,400
18 General Contractors $175,550
19 Accountants $136,935
20 Democratic/Liberal $129,490

So, that's about a $563,000 bucks in 18 years. Or $31,000 a year in contributions. I doubt he did it for the banks, at all.

[ellacott]

36. Everyone makes mistakes

Even if we feel we've researched something it can still be inaccurate. No person and no candidate is perfect.

[MadBadger]

22. delete

[1corona4u]

12. Ditto, Biden is the closest, to what we need right NOW.

[rurallib]

10. Ron Paul? Some are looking at him

just saying

[Occam Bandage]

18. So, you think that ending federal Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, and welfare is "perfect?"

Yeah, fuck old people, poor people, and sick people.

Or do you believe his plan to dissolve OSHA, FEMA, the EPA, the Dept. of Labor, and the Dept. of Energy is "perfect?"
Yeah, fuck regulations. The market will handle everything. We can trust big business.

Perhaps you find "perfect" his belief that Roe v Wade should be overturned, birthright citizenship for children of immigrants should be ended, and that the federal courts should be stripped of their ability to rule on matters of privacy, abortion, sexuality, and marriage.

If you want to support Ron Paul, go over to FR. Oh, wait, no, even the Freepers think he's fucking insane. How about Stormfront? They love him there. Seriously.

[rurallib]

19. Well, I can see you can really take a joke

I guess I needed to hang the sarcasm sign out. I didn't think anyone would take a Ron Paul reference seriously.
BTW - thanks for ripping me. I had a Biden staffer call me one night. When I told her I would not support her candidate she started yelling at me, telling me how dumb I was, how I was a fool not to support Biden, on and on. Good to see she is not the only one.
I continue to listen to all the candidates, but for Joe - well sorry that was no way to win my support.

[Occam Bandage]

20. Your emulation of a Ron Paul supporter was, well, perfect.

That's what a Ron Paul hit-and-run looks like, and they're being spammed all over the internet, including on liberal boards and blog comments. Forgive me for not realizing--without any context whatsoever--that this particular one was ironic.

Seriously, look at it again. And explain to me how exactly that differs in any way whatsoever from the Paulcruft that has infested the Internet. Where was the clue that you were not actually a Ron Paul supporter?

(I was phoned by a Edwards staffer one night. I said I wouldn't support Edwards. Then he drove over and shot my dog. Then a Hillary staffer called and laughed, exchanging high-fives with a Kucinich staffer.)

[rurallib]

23. Well I obviously stupidly thought that the "just saying" was a give away

especially in a thread that was tongue-in-cheek to start with.
And the story of the Biden staffer is totally true. I live in Iowa and am a precinct captain. Other staffers have cajoled and persuaded. Biden's have tried to intimidate
In another incident one of his supporters read me the riot act over the phone when she called to ask my reaction to an appearance we went to together. No way to garner support.
I have been used as a football by the Hillary folk on here today, also.
I am really thinking of dropping out of DU til we get a nominee. I just hate to see us beating each other up so badly. Most people on this board are probably leaders in their local parties. to see half of them go into the election pissed off is really bothering me.

[Occam Bandage]

24. Except they do that, too. Their meaning of that is,

"Many people I know like Ron Paul. Just saying. (I'm not saying I like him, because that might get me kicked from here, I'm just saying that lots of other people like him and maybe you should look into him.)"

Okay, so Biden's supporters in Iowa are apparently sociopaths who have gone rogue and are attempting to torpedo his campaign. Can't really think of any reasonable explanation for the situation as you presented it.

[1corona4u]

27. I can...

when you don't like a particular candidate, nothing their "people" can say will come across well. Just the way it is.

[mtnsnake]

16. Chuck Norris said Mike Huckabee is perfect. Are you gonna tell Chuck he's wrong?

I double dog dare you!

[calteacherguy]

17. Since I'm not running, none.

:P

[Renew Deal]

28. Me

I agree with all of my positions.

[youthere]

50. I wish I could say the same...

I'm soft on crime, and I tend to waffle.

[Kucinich4America]

30. Dennis Kucinich

unless you buy into media bullshit like "he's too short".

[frazzled]

31. Sadly, no

Even Dennis Kucinich is not "perfect." Certainly you remember his long history of votes against abortion rights--right up until the eve of his running in 2004. He had one of the worst records on the issue of any Democrat in the House, and for many years.

So, no, even St. Dennis is not perfect.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but no candidate is perfect.

[Radical Activist]

34. He would run this country into the ground

if the way he runs a campaign is any indication. I love Dennis on the issues but the idea of him being President scares me.

[Zorra]

46. Well, he's not perfect, but he's by far the only candidate with genuine solutions

to our national and worldwide problems.

[OHdem10]

35. There is no perfect cadidate--all will have flaws.

You have to measure each one :

Who can all at the same time
Handle Terrorism
Get some peace in ME
Handle an economy in recession, 7 major companies in past 3 days
having major layoffs. More to come
Globalization, 40 million dislocations.
Preserve SS without Privatization
Reform Healthcare so as to end up with all receiving care.
Improve the Educational system turning around the high dropout rate.
Seriously Investigate as to why the Trade Policy is ruing
America and make corrections.

Much More. That is quite a plateful

It takes more than hope.

[readmoreoften]

38. Huckabee

Perfectly horrific.

[red2blue]

39. Maybe it's because i am an atheist, but...

i didn't even know that God was running... I hope he would be an independent .. or is he a she? damn i'm so confused

[Adelante]

40. No candidate is perfect and I don't expect a perfect candidate

I decide on which imperfections I can't live with and go from there.

[LWolf]

41. None of them, of course. But some are much closer than others. n/t

[XemaSab]

42. :crickets:

[Ellen Forradalom]

44. Mine.

'course I haven't chosen one yet, but when I do, it'll be the perfect one.

[IndianaGreen]

48. Hillary Clinton

Hillary Clinton "is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known."

The Manchurian Candidate (1963)

[LoZoccolo]

49. Isn't that movie about communist brainwashing?

lol