Question for people who oppose Dean in the Democratic primary.

[Bush loves Jiang]

I lean towards him right now, but I'm not entirely decided, for I prefer Kucinich ideologically and Clark pragmatically.

But my question:

Regardless of your personal opposition to Howard Dean and regardless of your reasons for said opposition, would you say that his grassroots Internet campaign has revolutionised poltiical campaigning for the better?

[Jerseycoa]

1. Absolutely, yes

>would you say that his grassroots Internet campaign has revolutionised poltiical campaigning for the better?

[RandomKoolzip]

2. Yep. It's a real breakthough.

n/t.

[blm]

3. Meetups and the antiwar internet found Dean.

Dean didn't create it. It created him and turned him into the antiwar candidate even when he was never really antiwar. He was CLEVER enough to milk it, though, and went about coopting the language of the internet message boards and changed some of his centrist positions to accomodate his newfound supporters on the left.

[Donna Zen]

5. Abso-f**king-lutely to blm

If it wasn't for each and every one of us on all the blogs...and all the forums...there is NO internet movement.

Now that they know we are here, I expect them to become especially cynical in 2008. That's okay. We'll raise the bar.

Hey_one of the candidates was actually drafted over the internet. I know that there are those who doubt that it happened that way, but it did. Without those 40,000 letters and the many websites, Clark could have never done this.

[RandomKoolzip]

6. You say that like it's a bad thing.

I swear, Dean will be demonized for changing his position on ANYTHING, and reviled for not changing his position on other things. At least anti-Deaners are consistent: everything the man does is bad, bad, bad, and he must be stopped!

So the guy caught a wave and decided to ride it...and we should be upset beeecause.....?

[windansea]

9. granted he caught the wave

but he's a shoulder hopper

[RandomKoolzip]

13. I don't understand what that means.

"Shoulder hopper?" You mean like he's walking on people or something? Hmmm....I'll mull that one over for a while.


I've fully realized that even if Dean were to balnce the budget, bring world peace, and raise John Lennon from the dead, he'd still be despised by a lot of people on DU...He'd probably get put down for being a "show-off."

Dean's latching onto the internet movement is just canny camapigning. It doesn't seem malicious to me at all. Sounds to me like what Dean did was to tap a vein and sculpt his campaign planks to reflect the needs of his constituents. Whay that is such a treasonable action according to some democrats I don't understand either.

[blm]

15. Because a person runs on who they are and their record

which should reflect their own deep-seeded principles. Dean started running as a centrist because THAT'S who he is at his core. He then switched to where the votes are in the primary and with the antiwar crowd who believed he was with them. THAT shows a lack of principles.

[windansea]

17. just a joke

"shoulder hopping" is a surfing term...it's someone who does not take off at the real peak of the wave...

I should add that I do think Dean's internet campaign is very good for democracy...and he has some nicely designed websites.

ok?

[Hep]

24. Think what you want

but it's his campaign model. His is the only non-top-down campaign model in the race, and this model has been pining for the internet for decades.

His campaign has been revolutionary because it was made for the internet. Before the internet existed as we know it.

[stickdog]

19. Meanwhile, Kerry didn't notice the train coming and got

flattened by it.

We needed somebody to stand up to Bush during his Iraq Attack. Dean was there. Kerry was not.

And that has made all the difference.

[sweetheart]

4. yes, and i agree with your first sentence....

kucinich as the heart and clark as the will.

[meti57b]

7. yes!

[Lefta Dissenter]

8. I think that the internet has changed MANY facets of our lives

including the campaign. No, I don't think Dean 'revolutionised' political campaigning, any more than I think that Gore invented the internet. I pretty much expect these days that anyone who has a message to get out to the public will do it via the internet.

I do think that the idea of a 'draft' is pretty revolutionary, however. How many times in our history has the public spoken together in such a voice to encourage someone they believe in? I think that that wouldn't have been possible without the internet. I'm not giving Clark the credit for that, he isn't the one who did it - I'm giving the credit to the pair (Hlinko and... can't remember the other one's name), and then the group of supporters who touched all of us, and encouraged us to raise our voices.

[Bush loves Jiang]

11. I just hope nothing comes of the Draft Hillary movement...

I'm not crazy about her, and I'll have little respect for her if she doesn't keep her promise to the people of NY. (And just imagine how people controlled by government propaganda would react.)

[Scott Lee]

28. You and me both.

When she not only endorsed the Iraq War, but made that insipid "you're either with us or with the terrorists" remark, she went into my turdball file.

Why support her when we already have a warpig in the oval office.

[5thGenDemocrat]

10. I never said otherwise

The Dean campaign sets the standard for how campaign funds will be raised in the future and, IMHO, it's a very democratic development.
John
Which isn't exactly what you asked me, but it's the most notable thing to me about the Dean04 campaign -- more so than the campaigning itself.
Any internet geek could, theoretically, run a campaign on the internet, but raising funds is just as important and Dean's done a hell of a job of it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. Absolutely

And someone needed to show the way, Howard and friends did. It is a reason why Dean is high on my list (though not on top). I got a taste of that experience when I particapated in the Draft Clark movement in the Summer. It really is empowering to feel that you are making a difference.

[bearfartinthewoods]

14. yes

[jmaier]

16. Actually I think the Dean's campaign

most significant innovation was more the "contest every vote" tactic which led to 1) capturing a major 'wedge' issue in the democratic party (IWR) to grab an early bucketful of supporters and 2) using every media and channel to garner support.

Kerry, Gephardt & Lieberman used a very traditional strategy of isolating specific target primaries, focusing and then hoping to capitalize on those successes.

In the interim, Gov Dean & co. simply steamrolled them and the Internet was a great tool, probably the only tool, for being able to mobilize a 50-state campaign. I think their effective use of this tool is an offshoot of a very interesting strategy.

Just as interesting to me is where Wes Clark fits in. His campaign is a hybrid Dean/Traditional strategy with an unconventional candidate entering at the 11th hour. He's a very good candidate but he benefits, I think, by his later entry in that he also is outside the pale of the traditional guys and benefits from their apparent demise. As they seem less viable, he becomes a natural candidate for folks not overly attracted to Howard Dean himself.

Whatever happens, it does make the process interesting to watch.

[DuctapeFatwa]

18. No, but is has nothing to do with Dean

the internet has "revolutionized" a lot of things, in different ways.

The people who have been "cyber-active" in Dean's campaign, or in any of the others are only a small fraction of A) Voters and B) Internet users.

That those internet users who are voters and interested in politics would use the internet to pursue those interests was as inevitable as alt.fan.Everybody.Loves.Raymond

[stickdog]

20. I normally enjoy your posts. However, you've got blinders on

this time.

Dean's campaign is the most democratizing force associated with a US national campaign of any sort in almost 30 years.

[DuctapeFatwa]

26. I realize that his supporters are very excited about him, and the role

that the internet has played in making it possible for the net-savvy among them to "meet up" and get to know each other, etc.

However, in the long view of history, internet users who are also interested in politics are no different from internet users who are interested in African Violets.

I don't support any of the candidates, and you should not interpret this as anything either for or against him or any of them.

Depending on events, subsequent elections will see more and more people using the internet to get to know others who support their candidate, and candidates will continue to use it to talk to fans. Many of them already have "campaign blogs."

[HFishbine]

32. African Violets vs. The Internet

The Internet allows people to exchange ideas.
African Violets do not.

The Internet allows people to organize.
African Violets do not.

The Internet allows people to coordinate activities.
African Violets do not.

The Internet allows people to acquire campaign materials at near zero cost.
African Violets do not.

The Internet allows people to financially support a cause.
African Violets do not.

The Internet can inspire people to take a message to the un-wired world.
African Violets do not.

The Internet does not smell pretty.
African Violets do.

[mitchum]

21. Just as the internet hype for "Blair Witch Project" revolutionised...

movie hype. Let's hope the doctor has better legs than that franchise.

[LoneStarLiberal]

22. Yes With Rights

Most definitely.

However, it is a strategy that needs to evolve.

It's great for mobilization of those citizens who have not voted before, but it is also horrendously narrow in terms of who it reaches. Depending on it too much is a recipe for disaster; using it in tandem to a traditional block-walking approach is a recipe for mobilization and success.

[arewethereyet]

23. no, not really

far too confined an audience.

Its like e-commerce, fine for people who already screw around on-line but the brick and mortar stores area not going anywhere and they represent the lion's share.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. For the better?

It's only better politics if it results in better leadership.

New, innovative forms of demagoguery are not an improvement.

[H2O Man]

27. Expanding the democratic base!

While Dean is not my first choice, I am very impressed with his ability to use the internet to reach the youth of America. Listen: I am 45, and at a different station in life, but I find even the more outrageous comments on this forum wonderful! I was in college & in my twenties in the Reagan years. Young people had generally lost interest in politics. You folks are on the cutting edge. I admire that, and hope you will consider two points: (1) identify your enemy. You may like any of nine democratic candidates, for good reasons. But you have an enemy in common. (2) There are three groups: those who always agree with you; those who never will; and the undecided. Your job is to energize the first group; ignore the 2nd; and appeal to the 3rd. That is how you win elections. Remember: your enemy will try to cause divisions in that 1st group, making any appeal to the 3rd impossible. Use the Power of the Good Mind that the Haudenosaunee (or Iroquois) found to create unity.

[newyawker99]

30. Hi H2O Man!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Monte Carlo]

29. Absolutely. There is now no question that the internet...

... is a powerful tool for organizing lots of people fast. Enough to alter the course of the entire nation.

Every serious presidential bid from now on will try to establish a strong internet presence, for both popular support and campaign funds. Direct communications from the candidate will become commonplace, if not demanded. The paradigm has shifted.

I like Howard Dean and his politics a lot, I just prefer the candidate below more for THIS race. I think he would fare better against Bush, and I like his politics more. It's nothing personal.

[AP]

31. Absolutely. Ask me anything.

[JohnKleeb]

33. Its not opposition of Dean, its support of Kucinich