What if we gave the Naderities what they wanted?

[bluestateguy]

What if we nominated a candidate like Dennis Kucinich? Mind you, some of these people still regarded Howard Dean as insufficiently radical, so let's just use Kucinich or a candidate like him as an example. We then wrote a platform that put us on the far Left of the American political spectrum. Yes, we WOULD win back the 2.74% of the Nader voters. As they walked into the Democratic tent, however, we would have to hold the door wide open for the mass exodus of tens of millions of centrist voters who voted for Clinton and Gore in the 1990's. Last time I checked there were a lot more of them then there are far Leftists in the electorate. We'd pick up 2.74% and lose at least 10%, making us lucky to win 41% of the popular vote, which is about the same percentage as Walter Mondale in 1984. Ask yourself this, will white men in Tennesse vote for a type of candidate preferred by the Naderities? Would soccer moms in suburban Detroit vote for that type of candidate? Would a well off retiree in West Palm Beach, FL vote for that typd of candidate? Would the well-to-do professional in suburban Philadelphia vote for that candidate? These are the people who do the voting in elections, and these are the people who elect presidents.

On edit: I have nothing against Dennis Kucinich, who I like. He has promised to support the nominee. My point is only to suggest that a nominating a candidate that the Green Party prefers would result in disaster.

[Ediacara]

1. if we nominated someone like Nader or Kucinich we'd lose 70-30

For reasons that should be obvious.

[Dookus]

2. Couldn't agree more

For some reason the far left extremists think they make up a majority of voters, despite the fact they can't even win a house seat.

[mdmc]

3. Nader is a non factor

so don't give him anything.

He was a non factor in 2000 also.

[mdmc]

5. I hope we don't win like we did in 2000

No need to pander to the left...

[Kahuna]

4. Let's see. Cave to the 3% at the expense of 97%. Fuzzy math.

:eyes:

[mdmc]

6. So don't cave

you don't need the progressive left. You can win by running Kerry right up the middle.

[thebaghwan]

7. Fuck Mader and the worthless people who follow him. Asshole!

n/t

[donco6]

20. Whoa! Tell us what you REALLY think!

Ha!

Actually, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[sangha]

8. For every vote liberal vote we lose to Nader

we will gain several votes from Republicans who are sick of Bush*

[CTLawGuy]

9. I used to think like that too

but maybe aobut 1% of those tens of millions of centrist people will actually vote. that's what I never realized until recently.

The base will vote for you if you excite them, but you can't count on centrists to actually vote as if they were your base.


Bush is not a centrist, but he still won swing voters. Reagan was not a centrist and he was still elected. Even Bill Clinton won by campaigning on universal health care. (He didn't become a "centrist" until 1996)

What Bush and Reagan do, that we don't, is make their base happy to vote for them. They take positions that the base likes and then tries to persuade the middle that those positions are good. they dont shame and scare their base into falling in line.

If we nominated a candidate that energized the Democratic forces FOR HIM (or HER)and not simply against Bush, we would be much more successful electorally.

Swing voters trend conservative because they only hear the conservative message. Our party is trying to use a watered down conservative message as our position, which people can see through. In 2002, our candidates ran ads showing how much they voted with President Bush. Unbelievable! Any wonder why they lost? Maybe the dems wouldnt turn out?

We shouldnt be afraid to take strong, contrary positions to the RW.

[bluestateguy]

18. Tell that to Presidents Goldwater, McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis

:eyes:

[Guava Jelly]

10. I So agree with you

Any candidate that would make us creame our jeans wouldn't appeal to joe schmoe average.
Its a hard pill to swallow But four more of bush would be a much more jagged pill to swallow.

[lcordero]

11. Kucinich is willing to listen, act on what his voters want, and

change somewhat, while keeping his word. Kucinich, unlike the other candidates, is responsive to the needs of his voters.

white men in Tennessee would more than love to vote themselves into a job. These phantom "soccer moms" would more than love to vote to protect their husband's job security. A "well-to-do professional" would be more than happy to vote against having their "profession" be shipped off to China or India.

[jmowreader]

12. The Naderites want Bush in the White House

By splitting the non-religiously-insane vote, the Nader camp managed to put Shrub in the White House.

By running an appealing candidate (the two front-runners are Kerry and Edwards; they're both likable enough and intelligent enough to take it all, although intelligence doesn't seem to be a qualification for presidential candidates these days--look at the moran the Republicans ran in 2000) we will regain the White House.

[MurikanDemocrat]

13. Exactly. Pandering to 2.74% to lose 10% is not a good strategy

It guarantees a loss in November.

[mot78]

14. If we nominated Kucinich we'd have a 50-state sweep from the GOP

It would be worse than McGovern or Mondale. The problem with our political spectrum is that most Americans arn't ready for Nader or Kucinich's platform, but they will be if we can influence the discourse.

[cryofan]

15. Political bargaining is the norm in the more civilized EU nations

The parties and factions interact and negotiate with each other. We do not really have that, and we need it desperately.

Kucinich of course cannot be the nominee. For one, the populace do not feel as through his politics represent their views, although many of his issues when taken one at a time, are actually in favor with the populace.

One option is to give Kucinich the VP slot.

Another is to use the convention to craft a REAL universal single payer healthcare plan funded by higher taxation on the upper income brackets, unearned income and corporations. if we offered that to Nader, I feel sure he would back off.

Nader is just trying to change the world, and there is more than one way to do it.

[Piperay]

16. Another 4 years of chimp in the WH...

NO I will not give him and his posse that! :mad:

[ProudToBeLiberal]

17. nader said he wouldn't run if dean or kucinich ran.

[MurikanDemocrat]

19. What kind of a deal is that? Any way you look at it we'd lose?!?!

That's no deal at all. That kind of a deal only guarantees another Bush term.