The only ones who think electability doesn't matter are the unelectable

[NewHampster]

Funny how early in the campaign all we heard was that Hillary was unelectable. Now that she's set the record straight with her incredible debate performances and toughness against the rethugs, all of a sudden electability isn't an issue.

Bullshit!

It is all, 100% about beating the republicans at the game they have controlled for close to 40 years. The bastards have made the rules they play by and Hillary is ready to play.

Barack Obama is to me a good, honest, highly intelligent man but in the game called Presidential politics he will lose. If he is the nominee I will do everything in my power to prove myself wrong. I will support him. I will blog for him. I will donate to his cause. I will phone bank for him and I will canvass for him. Heck, I'll even deny writing this post.

But my efforts will be in vain and we will have the beginnings of the permanent Republican, Christian State.

[1corona4u]

1. I hate to say it, but I agree with you....

[NewHampster]

10. and I agree with everything Joe says too

I've sworn to see him if he returns to NH. I love the guy but he falls into the unelectable category too. I wish it wasn't so but I live in the real world of 2007.

[1corona4u]

30. LOL...

(snark) we'll just see about that. ;-)

GO JOE!! I hope you get to see him!!! I'd be very jealous. :-)

[David Dunham]

26. Obama is not electable in 2008.

[Joe the Revelator]

2. So far he seems to be doing quite well in the "game called Presidental Politics"

Winning the GE is only half of the game.

[NewHampster]

4. Winning the GE is all that counts

The losers aren't remembered and the winners of primaries who lose the GE are still losers.

[Joe the Revelator]

5. But if you can't win the primary, you don't have a lot of chance of winning the GE

[NewHampster]

12. They are two different ballgames

Hillary may lose the nomination and she may get negative but I can guarantee she will never ever attack Democrats the way she will fight the rethugs.

This GE will be the nastiest most disgusting campaign we've ever witnessed. I'm just glad we dems have people like Hillary who are willing and able to take on the challenge so she can get control and try her damnedest to change the future.

[Joe the Revelator]

19. Hillary is failing at everyturn

She can't win the primary, i have no hope for her winning the GE.

And please, don't give me this line about Hillary not fighting Democrats the way she would fight the republicans. She is trying everything she's got to get Obama back in line. She's just not effective at it, and she won't be in the GE either.

[NewHampster]

22. If you think she is fighting tough you are fooling yourself

[Joe the Revelator]

31. Yeah, I bet she'd rather lose the nomination instead of giving it everything she's got

:rofl:

[NewHampster]

32. Yes. she'd rather lose than destroy Democratic chance in the GE

Grow up. The GE is what matters. Dems must win period whoever the dem is.

[Joe the Revelator]

36. You're living in a complete fantasy

if you think Hillary isn't doing everything she can. I mean, her campaign accused Obama of being a drug dealer today. It doesn't get much more vicious then that.

[NewHampster]

40. No they did not

and if good dems can't read then what about the electorate. Shaheen said that the rethugs would say that but you only read headlines on blog posts by people you don't even know.

That's being well informed.

[Joe the Revelator]

43. They sure enough did.

It was a push poll without the phone call.

Is this your first campaign? Because everything you've said so far is suprisingly naive.

[NewHampster]

47. McGovern was my first back when I really was naive

but I guess I did try for McCarthy first.

[Joe the Revelator]

48. Then you should know better.

nt

[NewHampster]

52. Finally you get it. I do know better than to support the

Unelectable idealist. I want to win in November.

[AX10]

3. It's the damn "elitists" that are doing this to us.

The same GD elitists (Starbucks junkies) who gave us McGovern in 1972. The same elitists who gave us Mondale in 1984 (though we could not defeat that drooling pig Reagan, we could have made it close with Gary Hart, no gains for the GOP in the house and no electoral or popular landslide for that morAn. We would have blunted his victory if we nominated Hart instead of Mondale)

As you said, electability is no longer an issue now that she has proven that she can win! :eyes:

[Maven]

6. Obama isn't a genuine progressive and doesn't have lengthy political experience

so the only benefit I can see to his nomination is what his supporters love him for--his image and his rhetoric.

Problem is, those same supporters absolutely refuse to admit that his image isn't as airtight and invulnerable to attack as they think it is. They think Hillary's campaign is bad? Their attacks will seem like mosquito bites compared to the swarm of hornets the Republicans will unleash on the Dem nominee. And every little stupid thing, the madrassa story, the middle name, the drug use--and believe me, I think they are ludicrous and shouldn't matter to an informed electorate--will be exploited in the lowest, crudest most venomous way possible by the GOP.

And if Team Obama can only respond with righteous indignation it makes me seriously question their ability to handle the big game. This is a question worth asking; unfortunately, all anyone can see is the horse race directly in front of them.

[Tellurian]

39. Obama is whatever he needs to be at the moment..

He's gone beyond Triangulation...He just make shit up as he goes along, depending on the audience!

[Lord Helmet]

7. if trending upwards in polling is "losing" in Clinton-speak

Obama is losing, er, I mean winning big time. Hillary is slowly slipping into oblivion because she was too cocky, too confident, too a-holey to win the nomination.

[1corona4u]

11. Perhaps you missed it, but this poll, from 2003, was posted on this board...

and it actually makes your point moot;

NEW YORK, Dec. 17, 2003

CHOICE FOR DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE
(Democratic primary voters)

Now
Howard Dean
23%
Wesley Clark
10%
Joe Lieberman
10%
Richard Gephardt
6%
Al Sharpton
5%
John Kerry
4%
John Edwards
2%
Carol Moseley-Braun
1%



Hmm....wonder how they could have been so far off...

[Lord Helmet]

13. It confirms my point that the "inevitable" candidate ain't so inevitable after all.

Just like happened to Dean.

[1corona4u]

15. Which wouldn't exclude Obama either.

[Lord Helmet]

20. Obama has overcome double digit differences and was always the long shot.

so it in fact does not include Obama in the inevitability meme

[David Dunham]

29. Obama only beat Alan Keyes. That's it.

[Lord Helmet]

41. Obama has overcome her double-digit leads in this race.

We're talking about this election, but Hillary beat a yahoo in her Senate race too, so what?

[NewHampster]

16. She never said she was

That was rethug MSM speak meant to sway people like you away from her.

[Lord Helmet]

18. b.s. Her campaign complained to David Corn that Obama was UPPITY

and presumptuous for trying to take the nomination away from her
the truth is out there, dude

[maddiejoan]

34. That's not even true

David Corn's article sites an un-named Democrat with no campaign affiliation for that.

In other words -- it's the opinion of an outsider.

[NewHampster]

35. good evening ms. maddiejoan

:yourock:

[Lord Helmet]

38. It is true and it did come from the Clinton camp. Here's what Corn had to say:

from: http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/davidcorn/

When talking to Clintonites in recent days, I've noticed that they've come to despise Obama. I suppose that may be natural in the final weeks of a competitive campaign when much is at stake. But these people don't need any prompting in private conversations to decry Obama as a dishonest poser. They're not spinning for strategic purposes. They truly believe it. And other Democrats in Washington report encountering the same when speaking with Clinton campaign people. "They really, really hate Obama," one Democratic operative unaffiliated with any campaign, tells me. "They can't stand him. They talk about him as if he's worse than Bush." What do they hate about him? After all, there aren't a lot of deep policy differences between the two, and he hasn't gone for the jugular during the campaign. "It's his presumptuousness," this operative says. "That he thinks he can deny her the nomination. Who is he to try to do that?" You mean, he's, uh, uppity? "Yes." A senior House Democratic aide notes, "The Clinton people are going nuts in how much they hate him. But the problem is their narrative has gone beyond the plausible."

[NewHampster]

42. A senior democratic aide is not the campaign

read your own friggin words god damn it.

[Lord Helmet]

44. ya keep kicking that can down the road and see what that gets you

We hear the same denial from the Clinton Campaign and from her clearly demented supporters.

People aren't nearly as stupid as you are banking on.

[NewHampster]

50. Would lord helmet be from the dark side perhaps

you sound more like a freeper every minute.

[Lord Helmet]

54. ya keep telling Demcrats that don't support Hillary they are freepers

seriously, keep doing it

[maddiejoan]

51. In other words

"wooooooops. I got nuthin'"

[Lord Helmet]

53. in other words your candidate has been caught with her panties around her ankles

and it's hillaryous

[maddiejoan]

56. You're not very good at this.

Maybe you need more experience.

[maddiejoan]

45. Freakin' unbelievable ain't it?

I didn't even have to dig up the article to prove I'm right.

[Lord Helmet]

49. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Doesn't matter what you cling-ons have to say on these matters because the American public knows that the piles of shit coming from the Clinton campaign can't possibly all be innocent. Keep fooling yourself though becuase it's funny to watch.

[maddiejoan]

55. Maybe Obama: the new Moses --

--can lead me over that mighty river of Denial, and lead me to the promised land!

Hallelujah!

[NewHampster]

14. lol

[earthlover]

8. Sorry, but 50% of Americans ALREADY won't support Hillary in the general

The most UNelectable candidate is Hillary.

Does electability matter? Well, maybe there is a case for nominating someone who will make a message even in defeat. But if that is the case, what is Hillary's message, anyway? All I see is that it is all about herself.

[Beacool]

9. Yep, electability is what it's about.

What's the point of nominating someone who will in all likelihood not win next November? The Repugs are salivating at the thought of putting Obama through his paces. The "audacity of hope" and other platitudes are no match for the Republican machine. Notice how despite the race being tight in the early states the Republicans don't even bother mentioning Obama, but Romney is airing an anti-Hillary ad in MI. Why is that? Why is Rove and some of the other Repugs giving Obama pointers on how to defeat Hillary? All of the sudden they developed a soft spot for Obama? Please........

I know that many on his board are very young and idealistic, but I want a Democrat to win the White House next November and I don't see Obama in the Oval office next year. Maybe in a few years when he's more seasoned and actually DOES have some gravitas.

[Rock_Garden]

17. She's electable, highly electable. We will elect her.

[penguin7]

21. It used to be that some votes were cast before electability was decided

How did we come to this where the corporate media chooses the field before a vote is cast?

[NewHampster]

24. Thank Rupert and the Fox Street Journal

[Colobo]

23. NewHampster, we already have a seat for you in the Obama Train.

The Hillary Express is about to be derailed, so get outta there soon.

[NewHampster]

25. Mrs. NH keeps inviting me over

and if she can't win me with promises of .... then you have no chance.

Hillary is my girl and I'm phone banking almost every day.

Come on and see her Saturday in Plaistow, NH.

[Colobo]

27. Mrs. NH is right. You need to listen to the right woman, and that's her

not Mrs. Clinton. :)

[NewHampster]

28. Mrs. NH was only right once

In any other previous year I would have been on the train with you. This year I decided to back a winner rather than the idealistics of my past.

[Beacool]

37. Hey, you that are actually there,

what's the word of mouth from the regular people? The polls are enough to drive anybody insane, they're all over the place and it's hard to assess the truth being that I'm in Jersey. Around here, it's good for Hillary. People comment the same thing over and over: he lacks experience. I hear that from people constantly, most comment that they don't dislike him but that he should have waited a few years. People also seem to be immune to the Oprah factor, those I polled (unofficially) basically rolled their eyes and didn't think much of it. Then again, we're a NY/NJ crowd and are not easily swayed by fluff.

[NewHampster]

46. My sense is that Hillary still has it

My sense is that Hillary still has it and some of these polls are polling activists rather than normal voters and independents.

My town committee, my wife and virtually all activist dems I know are for Obama. The normal every day voters and indis love Hillary. Teachers I know love her and are getting active too.

My phone banking this week(3 nights, 500+ calls) has been mostly to former confirms(1s) and Hillary leaner's. Not a single loss and the commitment seems stronger than ever.

Also had a great 25 minute call with a Kucinich and former Nader supporter. He laid out all the reasoning and economics for Dennis but every few minutes he kept coming back to not wasting his vote this time because it is too important for dems to win. He said when it comes to voting day he'll be voting for Hillary.

[Beacool]

60. Thanks, I have faith in NH.

I think that she's got deeper roots in the state than Obama and I'm hoping that in the end it'll pay off. So far, no worries in this neck of the woods (NY, NJ, PA & CT) and these states pack a whopper of delegates.

[maxanne]

33. this is so interesting

You're laying the foundation for the future - the meaningless primary, where only candidates who can suck billions
from the corporate teat need apply - and where the faithful will continue to berate us about electibility. As long
as we choose to vote this way, we'll recieve an endless supply of candidates who will ensure that no neccessary
social changes will occur.

On top of that - the poor fools who will stubbornly cling to their vote as somehow being THEIRS will be blamed
when the corporate candidates lose.

[CTD]

57. Hillary supporters are apparently irony-impaired

Electability IS an issue. And HRC is simply unelectable.

[provis99]

58. No, Hillary's the most electable

Probably because she's the most conservative in the primary race, like Bill Clinton was in his. But if we stop caring what their ideology is, and care more about their electability, then why bother with the process at all? It becomes as irrelevant as cheering for your local football team because they play in the same town as you live.

[CTD]

59. Actually, the media and most voters are lazy

They vote based on the lazy characitures the media puts forward on each candidate. It's how Gore became wooden and sighed a lot and how Kerry became the elitist flip-flopper while Bush was someone we all supposedly wanted to have a beer with.

Hillary's characiture has been established and it's not pretty. Fair or not, it's basically "driven, calculating bitch". And it will lose out to "nice-guy Huck" or "9/11 Rudy" or "war hero McCain".

[maddiejoan]

61. Will it lose out to--

"Women are chattle Huckabee"

"Pay for my whore Rudy"

or

"I'm Bush's Bitch McCain"?

[CTD]

69. But that's not how the media is playing those guys.

None of those storylines is anywhere near the MSM.

As I said, the characitures are already set. The media is lazy and won't revise them unless something truly dramatic happens. And then the voters will vote based on the characitures.

Hillary loses.

The importance of understanding and accepting this reality is CRITICAL is we want to avoid another Republican president.

[weeve]

62. Ummmm HELLO ...

I think you're all missing the point here. JOHN EDWARDS is the most electable of the top three . Hillary's negatives are huge (starting with the 50% who will never vote for her). Obama sometimes has charisma ( though often it seems canned ), but the whole Oprah machine is turning many off, and let's face it ... racism still exists in this country. Sexism too ( another strike against Hillary winning ). Edwards energizes the Left of his party, Independents, and frankly many Conservatives I've talked to. The Republicans fear him the most in the General ( as recent polling points out ), and once the Media starts paying some attention to him, his numbers can only go up. It's a shame they've been pushing Hillary down our throats for two years now, and now want to make it only a TWO PERSON race ( w/ the two most Corporate friendly ). Hopefully Edwards winning Iowa, and a few more to follow will force them to be more evenhanded.

John Edwards wins the General election in a cakewalk. The problem is going to be securing him the nomination.
But we (the people) can do it.

[donheld]

63. Hillary, Shut the fuck up

:puke:

[Perry Logan]

64. Hillary: "Same to you, pal."

[Perry Logan]

65. It's fun watching the "unelectable" meme come back to bite Obama.

[mtnsnake]

66. Well said, NH. It's nice to think how quickly Hillary has gone from "polarizing" & "unelectable"

to perhaps the most electable candidate we've had since Bill Clinton. Man has she turned things around!

Glad to recommend this.

[BenDavid]

67. The best way to get a lie started is tell a lie against HRC and

then watch as the msm picks up on it and reports it as news. BY THE TIME THE TRUTH GETS OUT THERE, MANY, ESPECIALLY THOSE ON THE LEFT BUY INTO IT.
This HRC is unelectable was a plant by the right and most non thinkers on the left bought it, lock, stock and barrell. Then another lie, the right talking so nice and sweet about Obama. Now why would facist be talking nice about obama? Could it be they already done enough "operational research" to hit him with it if he is the nominee?
I'm thinking the right is good at being racist and you can bet yo butt the right will go with it.Oh they will not be so blantant about it but underneath it will be there.

[NewHampster]

68. and they still don't get it

BY THE TIME THE TRUTH GETS OUT THERE, MANY, ESPECIALLY THOSE ON THE LEFT BUY INTO IT.

You are so right BenDavid and I am so sad that my friends have the memory of an Ass rather then the memory of an Elephant. Methinks Nash or whoever came up with the party symbols really knew what they were saying.

[William769]

70. K&R!

[Tejanocrat]

71. On what planet is Hillary more electable in a general election. Edward, then Obama, then Hillary (in

that order) do best against Republican candidates here in planet Earth.

Check this out: http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/12/11/tue6ampoll.pdf

[NewHampster]

72. Planet Earth

Where smart people ignore polls from the MSM