Who are the Hillary haters and are they from the 1930’s?

[Bo Bike]

Robert F. Kennedy JR. Huffington post article

Even some Democrats who agree with Hillary Clinton on every issue and consider her an effective, inspiring leader, fret that the blind, irrational hatred, that burdened her husband during his presidency and that continues to dog his wife, might impair her delectability. "She is too polarizing" they say, parroting the verdict of television's Sunday morning gas bags.

It's worth recalling the historical parallels with an earlier presidential couple. "No other word than hatred will do," observed a May 1936, Harper's Magazine feature "They Hate Roosevelt" by Marquis W. Childs. "The phenomenon to which I refer goes beyond objection to policies or programs. It is a consuming personal hatred of President Roosevelt and, to an almost equal degree, of Mrs. Roosevelt."

Childs deemed this "fanatical hatred" so intense and irrational that it could only be explained as the product of "abnormal psychology." Historian William Manchester described how Roosevelt haters "abandoned themselves in orgies of presidential vilification." William Bird, curator of political history at the Smithsonian Institution said that "by 1936, the 'Roosevelt haters' had developed into a well-defined cult among the nation's business elite," their lackeys in the press and on the editorial boards and among right wing Christian theocrats led by fascist radio host Father Charles Coughlin.

"In history, this hatred may well go down as the major irony of our time," wrote Childs. "The majority of those who rail against the have to a large extent had their incomes restored and their bank balances replenished since the low point of 1933," before FDR came to power. "That is what makes the phenomenon so incredible. It is difficult to find a rational cause for this hatred."

Describing the same baffling dynamics, a bewildered contemporary magazine editor created an inventory of the most vitriolic Roosevelt haters, including the CEOs of Phillips Petroleum, National Steel, DuPont, General Foods, Monsanto Chemical and General Motors, and then recorded the tremendous growth in their stocks which had all flourished since the implementation of Roosevelt's New Deal policies.

"People in power with privilege don't want to be challenged at all," Hillary told me recently as we discussed the repetitive rhythms of history. "FDR's policies rescued capitalism, thereby saving the fortunes and restoring the incomes of so many of the same people who would curse his name over the dinner table. They somehow still felt threatened because they don't like to be questioned."

"And there is something of the same going on today. If you challenge the pharmaceutical companies, the health insurance companies, if you think investment fund managers should be taxed at the same rate as nurses and firefighters, you run into this vitriolic response."

Irrational hatred was the powerful drug that intoxicated the Gingrich Congress to impeach President Bill Clinton at the time when he enjoyed 65% popularity with the American people and had steered the nation through eight years of peace and unprecedented prosperity.

Hillary's supporters should be heartened by the fact that intense hatred is often accompanied by equally strong support. Roosevelt won four landslide victories against his opponents and crafted the architecture for the most humane, successful, generous features of modern American government.

They can also take comfort in Hillary's proven ability to transform intense hatred into loyal support. I recently toured upstate New York's traditionally Republican counties which she has transformed through leadership and political acumen, into rock solid Hillary Clinton strongholds.

With a playful wink she told me, "One of my favorite pins in my political pin collection is "I Don't Like Eleanor Either." It reminds her that it's not just the president who is targeted by the haters. But "about anybody who cares about and stands up and fights for the changes that our country needs to have."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/hillary-haters-and-the-ro_b_76573.html

Republicans are Hillary haters, conservatives are Hillary haters, big insurance are Hillary haters, big pharmaceuticals are Hillary haters, investment fund managers are Hillary haters, corporate media are Hillary haters, and right wing nut radio talk show hosts are Hillary haters. HAY!!! Maybe the existence of all these Hillary haters is a good reason to elect her.

[ORDagnabbit]

1. and war mongers are hillary lovers...cause she hasnt met a war yet she wouldnt support...

[napi21]

6. THA is an unfair statement! Yes she supported giving Shrub the authority to use force

in Iraq, but guess what? So did I! I well remember listening to the discussions back then, and I recall the Shrub supporters saying that he needed the authority when he went to the UN to back up his threats.

Well, I held a number of jobs in my career, and I knew that if you didn't have "authority to make the decisions" you couldn't accomplish anything! When I heard their argument, I believed it too!

I doubt you'll find very many people who detest Shrub now as much as I do, but I admit I was a damn fool for thinking that any American President would automatically go to war without just cause!

BTW, I'm not going to vote for Hillary in the primary, but all this hatered against her for that vote is simply not recognizing human reality!

[Egnever]

12. No its not

Difference is your just some schmuck going about your daily life trusting in your government to do the right thing and pay attention to the details especially when it comes to matters as important as war.

Hillary on the other hand was elected to pay attention to those details and she fell woefully short hell she didn't even bother to read the intelligence reports that spelled out pretty clearly the holes in bushes lies. There were congress people at the time that where doing their job at the time and did try to stop the madness but had their hands tied when sharing the classified information they had that spelled out the holes.

Sorry but that vote was timed to make it as uncomfortable as possible to vote against it and the timing worked flawlessly. The Dem's caved big time under fears of looking weak on terror after 9-11.

Sorry its forgivable for you to believe but not for them.

I was scouring the net for information at the time and bush didn't set up a single argument that wasn't either knocked right down or at least in question. Because the MSM was complicit in its willingness to repeat the lies it was easy for an average joe like yourself to drink the coolaid. If you were paying attention though at the time like many of us here were you knew damn well before the vote went down that it was BS and that bush had no intention of stalling his march to war hell he sent the carriers before the vote was even held.

No sorry there is no excuse for that vote from our reps they knew or would have known better if they just did their job.

[earthlover]

14. But Hillary voted AGAINST the Levin AMendment the same day as the IWR

The Levin Amendment would have sent it back to the UN and only after another vote by Congress would war be authorized.

So...if, as you try to say, Hillary only voted for the IWR to send Bush back to the UN,why on earth would Hilllary have voted NO on the Levin Amendment?

[cali]

18. so did JE, for that matter. And they both voted against the

Durbin amendment as well. Only difference? Edwards was by far the bigger cheerleader for attacking Iraq and he co-sponsored the IWR.

[mike_c]

56. exactly-- that's why I'll never vote for EITHER of them....

The war against Iraq wasn't just a mistake. An oops. Damn, buggered that one. Sorry.

Apologizing for a crime of that magnitude is not sufficient to undo the effect of having facilitated it. Oh course, Sen. Clinton won't even go that far.

[creeksneakers2]

57. The faulty logic of the time was

That Saddam would only cooperate when threatened, so if a negotiated solution was to be found Saddam had to be convinced that the only alternative was war.

At the time, IWR backers said the idea of sending the whole issue back to the UN would cause Saddam to consider that blinking in the face of his threat. He'd be less likely to make any concessions, the argument went.

I know! I know! Pretty stupid ideas but that's what many were thinking at the time.

[MercutioATC]

15. Anybody who would vote to give THIS administration that power...

...is either an idiot or a political opportunist.

I don't want my President to be either.

[Cha]

49. Well, that's your

bad. Only hillary has supported bush for 7 years.

[Evergreen Emerald]

26. this is a lie. She is no more a war monger than Edwards and Obama are

[Alpharetta]

28. Yes and no

Edwards voted YES for Iraq War resolution
Obama was no in office

[Evergreen Emerald]

29. Obama has voted for funding every time

He is not clean on this issue. And his "stance" on Iraq is the exact same as Clinton's, Dodd's, Biden's, and Edwards'.

[Alpharetta]

35. true, but their IWR votes still taint them

As far as I'm concerned, Kerry, Clinton, and Edwards' failure to stand with Senator Byrd against the war was a lost opportunity to show political courage. I'll vote for someone who wasn't there before I'll vote for someone who stood on the wrong side.

[Evergreen Emerald]

38. If that is your stance, then you may want to review Obama's statements at the time

He said that he does not know what his vote would have been. He stated that he may have voted for it.

So, there is no one clean on this issue. The question is: what will they do on Jan. 1st?

They have all said they would end the war. Richardson and Kucinich said the troops would pull out immediately. The others have said they would stop the fighting and have a few on the parameter to quell any terrorists.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

43. He did that out of respect for Kerry and Edwards, who were running at the time

Criticizing them for their IWR votes at that time would have been bad form. Contrast that to Bill Clinton and Sen. Clinton, who were going around praising Bush for his leadership in the War on Terra at the same time, while criticizing Kerry's stance.

[earthlover]

60. Obama publically stated his opposition to a war that was popular at the time

Contrast this to Clinton and Edwards who, although privy to all the intelligence, still voted to support the IWR apparently because it was the popular thing to do....

[sandnsea]

2. Because Hillary is a Communist

Yeah, that's what everybody is saying. Sorry, Bobby is way off the mark on this one.

[ElizabethDC]

4. That is what a lot of Republicans are saying, actually

Republicans I've talked to seem to think she's the second coming of Karl Marx. Comments on a lot of blogs/online articles often say the same. In my experience, it's one of the many ways in which the real world is quite different from DU.

[Cha]

50. The rabid wing like to spout

shit like.."hillary is a communist" but we know better. She's a bush enablin' opportunist whose advisers were on the wrong side of history.

[babylonsister]

3. RFK Jr. isn't! Whoo hoo! I'm not sure about that 1930s reference, but

good news for Clinton lovers, and go for it!

[bluestateguy]

5. If she is so unelectable, why does she win so many of these head to head matchups?

She does not always win them all the time, but she wins them more often than not.

The same people who are foam-at-the-mouth Hillary Haters will be Obama and Edwards haters in due course, if either of these men are nominated.

They will hate anybody who threatens the Republican belief of a God-given Right to the presidency for eternity.

[Bo Bike]

7. Maybe… But there is no hatred like Clinton hatred

as far as the right is concerned. If Hillary became president I think some of these right wing-nuts would slit their wrists.

[crikkett]

23. HRC is the best candidate that Republicans have, IMO.

[earthlover]

20. Why do you hate 'Merica? Why do you hate Hillary? Are you a card carrying Republican? ;-)

[crikkett]

22. Really? I thought Edwards was winning - and it's all a horserace isn't it

I heard it on Tuesday's Rachel Maddow Show as her 'burying the lede' story.

You won't find an article that says Edwards is winning; what she did was interpolate from an article on how well each Dem candidate would fare vs. Republican candidates, and Edwards would do much better than her in each case.

This election feels like its been going on for years. sigh.

[emilyg]

8. Kick

[Imagevision]

9. If Hillary is so electable, why are her numbers dropping so much across the board...?

[regnaD kciN]

10. "Straw-Man" Alert...!

Even some Democrats who agree with Hillary Clinton on every issue and consider her an effective, inspiring leader...

RFK Jr. gives the game away in his very first sentence, creating a fictitious bloc of people who agree with HRC on everything(!) but fear she is unelectable, and then rebutting this phantom bloc as a substitute for actually answering those opposed to the candidate herself.

For the record, none of those I know who have qualms about Hillary fall into such a camp (and, to be honest, the notion of people supporting what a candidate says, but not the candidate him- or herself, out of fears of "unelectability," is really a concept that would be far more applicable to a progressive idealist like Kucinich than a triangulating centrist like HRC). Most of those whom "Hill's Shills" would pigeonhole as "Hillary Haters" are unenthusiastic about the Senator simply because they don't agree with her on most crucial issues such as the Iraq War Resolution, Kyl-Lieberman, her "No Insurance Company Left Behind" health plan, etc., and/or consider her insincere and ego- rather than principle-driven.

But isn't there a second irony here? For months or even years, "Hill's Shills" have been touting her candidacy on the grounds that she's the only Democrat prominent enough to be a sure winner. In other words, she's been presented as this campaign's "Senator Electable," much like Kerry was four years ago (even though one would think what happened to the latter might give pause to those adopting the same position now). But now we're told that not only is Hillary the most electable candidate, but that the only reason anyone could have for opposing her is that she isn't seen as electable. What's wrong with this picture? :crazy:

[whirlygigspin]

11. hmm

No matter the motivation, Hillary does seems to be very devicive.

I for one do not look forward to another 4 years of constant 'Hillary bashing'

if she wins...and if she does, how much can she realistically accomplish?

[sniffa]

21. outstanding synopsis

:thumbsup:

[Usrename]

25. I have to agree, outstanding!

Well done! :thumbsup:

[Perry Logan]

13. Mostly white guys.

[earthlover]

16. Why do you hate America? Why do you hate Hillary? Are you a card carrying Republican? ;-)

sarc

[mwb970]

17. It is frustrating to have "bush hatred" considered irrational like these cases.

I hate bush with all my heart, and it is not the least bit "irrational". (I'm an engineer; it's not my style.) I hate bush because of the damage he has done and continues to do to the country I love, unlike the FDR-haters who hated him despite the benefits he brought to America. (I would put Bill Clinton-haters in this latter category as well.)

bush has killed our citizens in Iraq, polarized the population, poisoned our air and water, sent the country spiraling into debt while cutting taxes (but only for the super-rich), allowed a major US city to die, started an endless, expensive war based on lies and fought by corporate mercenaries beyond the reach of any law, filled the government with incompetent suckups, violated the Geneva Convention, turned America into an amoral torturer, merged church and state, cheapened and coarsened our political discourse, ruined our reputation in the world, repeatedly defied the Constitution with his "signing statements" - do I need to go on? There's much more.

What could possibly be "irrational" about hating someone who has done all this? Is it also "irrational" then to hate bin Laden? Hitler? Satan?

[karynnj]

19. You forgot that there are real Democrats that are appalled at the

ruthless attacks of the Clinton machine. As my daughter reminded me, she was raised with the view that HRC was good. Many of us spent the 1990s excusing in the Clintons things we would have been screaming about if they were Republican.

We really are to blame. We knew before the 1992 primaries were decided that Bill Clinton met most accusations by first lying to avoid consequences. In retrospect, knowing that should have been important. On both the Flowers and draft accusations, he could have spoken the truth as soon as asked. The draft was way in the past - though he was older than Obama when he tried cocaine. The fact that he lied and also attacked and blamed others should have shown us that Clinton, as charming and brilliant as he was, had major character flaws. (Bush was below 40% - Tsongus, Harkin or Kerrey would have won - so we would have had a Democrat.)

This editorial - even if it is by the esteemed RFKjr - implies a Black and white world, when in fact there are shades of grey. The actions of HRC and her campaign have moved people, who earlier were positive or neutral on her, to actively dislike her. It is always right before or during the Iowa caucuses that many people first take a serious look at the candidates - people on a message board are atypical in that we've already fought this for about 3 years. She is lucky that it right before Christmas and that the writers on on strike - otherwise I would guess that this last month would have been a bigger implosion.

[crickets]

62. Agreed

Thanks especially for these points:

This editorial - even if it is by the esteemed RFKjr - implies a Black and white world, when in fact there are shades of grey.

Binary thinking, false dichotomy. I'm disappointed in him. He should know better.

The actions of HRC and her campaign have moved people, who earlier were positive or neutral on her, to actively dislike her.

Yes, although I would add that the reason I will not vote for her has nothing to do with dislike for her personally, but rather my disagreement with her stand on issues. Any dislike I may have for her is just an annoying 'bonus' I spend as little time on as possible these days by ignoring her.

[SIMPLYB1980]

24. K&R

I see the trolls are out in full force again today.

[Bucky]

27. "might impair her delectability"?

What an unsavory prospect.

[flyarm]

30. hillary haters..hillary haters..hilllary haters..waaaaa waaa booo hooo

how about many just don't like her..that she is polarizing..is that hating her?? i call that bullshit!.. is this rhetoric going to persist..it is so childish and such nonsense...and demeaning to many women..

people have the damn right to just not like her..that does not mean they hate her.

and those that keep that line of bullshit up only make people dislike her more!

but hate??

that is going so over the top it is demeaning to all women in positions of power.

my damn 2 cents.

fly

[SIMPLYB1980]

32. People also have a right to defend her

from people that do hate her.

Just my damn 2 cents.

[flyarm]

34. name me someone who has said they hate Hillary..please..i don't mean dislike..i mean who have said

they "hate her"

come on please name those individuals..


come on..name people who "hate Hillary"

i am not talking about people who dislike her..name me people who have said they "hate her"

i dislike her..but i do not hate her..i dislike even the thought of hate..

although i will say..i hate Little lord pissy pants and darth vader cheney..because they have killed so many human beings...but i reserve hate for only the truely evil among us..

but do please..name anyone who has said they "hate Hillary"

there is a big difference between hate and dislike..understand that.

and there is even a bigger difference that people do not feel she is the right person to be president and hate..

i am personally getting disgusted with a grown woman's supporters using the word hate , because people do not support hillary..it is childish beyond words.

fly

[SIMPLYB1980]

39. I don't have to, and their are to many to name.

I didn't say you hated her, and I think you protest to much.

[creeksneakers2]

59. When I see people who are capable of believing that

Hillary attacked Obama for something he said in kindergarten, or that Hillary is part of a cult that will install a theocracy in America, or any of the dozens of other crazy things I've read here I conclude minds are being twisted by a powerful force. It must be hate. There is no other explanation.

One can't succumb to a belief that Hillary had volunteers send out 20 E-mails about Obama being a Muslim just by disliking Hillary.

[randr]

31. You do not have to hate Hillary

to disagree with her politics. We have several candidates far better qualified and trustworthy.
A return to the derisive 90,s is not what I would like to see our nation dealing with as we approach 2010.
We need to move on in many ways and it will be necessary to sweep the past out of the way.

[blm]

33. With all due respect Robert - Some of us just don't TRUST closed government at all, or

the Democrats who side with protecting the secrecy and privilege of the powerful instead of with open government that is accountable to its citizens.

It doesn't matter if that closed government protection comes from someone wearing pants or a skirt.

You left concern for open government out of the mix.

[Enrique]

45. there are good rational critiques of Hillary

and there is also irrational hatred of her. Kennedy is talking about the hatred.

[flyarm]

53. so should we be nominating someone who is hated? Before ever being sworn in?

or should we nominate someone who will be respected and be accepted across the line?

fly

[Enrique]

54. yes, I think so

she can overcome the hatred.

[kenfrequed]

36. Uhm

Big Pharm has given Hillary tons of campaign money, how are they "Hillary haters?"

Fox news is curiously quiet about how horrible Hillary is, save that they constantly talk about 'who can beat hillary' on occasion. The candidates at the republican debate talk about her a lot too.

Wall street likes Hillary compared to other democratic candidates.

Medical Insurance companies are born again Hillary lovers.

Nope, your arguments don't hold water.

Hillary is no roosevelt. Has she called for a new deal? Has she called for a real change in policy at all? Does she really strike you as a revolutionary change in the way things work in America, or is it merely a return to ubber-moderate and economic conservatism of her husbands administartion.

[YOY]

37. I don't hate her. I thought her hubby was an effective president.

And that he was exactly what a Republican should be: big on economic, little on social issues instead of the bat shit wannabe Reagan crew trying to milk the lucky economic upswing that happened during that actor-president's reign that they are. She would be, from what I see, an mere extention of her husband's presedency.

I don't like her stance on a number of issues. I don't like legacies...especially for elected positions. I don't like being told that she in inevitable. I don't like that's hate.

[Rock_Garden]

40. Thanks for bringing a fascinating perspective to the discussion, Bo Bike. K&R!

[applegrove]

51. I second that. I never knew how hated the Roosevelts were.

[Beacool]

41. Who hates her?

Easy, both extremes: the ultra left and the ultra right. To the left she's "Bush-Lite" and to the right she's a fascist, a socialist, a communist or a marxist (take your pick). The irony is that she's none of these things. She's a centrist who believes that one should work with both sides of the aisle whenever possible without leaving behind one's core values. That IS how government should work. We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship, all sides should be heard and be seated at the table.

[Sooner in VA]

42. Re: Who hates her?

Good post, Beacool. I agree.

Hillary is despised by the fringe lunatics. In reality she's amazingly intelligent and engaging and BY FAR the most qualified candidate out of the entire field.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

44. I am a Hillary dis-liker

not a hater. But I'm not going to support someone solely because our "opponents" don't like her.

[tom_paine]

46. I greatly respect RFK Jr., but I disagree with him on this

There are a great deak of reasons to dislike Sen. Clinton, not the least of which is the she doesn't seem the least concerned with the wholsale destruction of our System of Checks and Balances.

She can improve the economy and environment as much as she likes. But without serious attempts to restore the Old American Republic to health and vigor politically, then we are just marking time until the next Royal Bushie comes in a picks off right where they left off, as if the interim never happened.

That, in my opinion, is the primary, and very legitimate, reason to hope that Sen. Clinton is NOT our nominee in 2008.

However, if a brief respite from Bushie Vampirism is all we are offered (and a Sen. Clinton pResidency/Imperium would indeed be that, and would likely be generally positive, doubly so in comparison to what has come before, for the American People) in Nov. 2008, then there is no question that is the choice to vote for, if that's what it comes to.

[Cameron27]

47. K&R

[William769]

48. K&R!

[Tellurian]

52. K&R

:dem:

[depakid]

55. "People in power with privilege don't want to be challenged at all."

One suspects the irony of that statement may be lost on her....

[DrFunkenstein]

58. Stalin Hated Hitler

The logic you are suggesting is completely nutty. As if there were only ONE reason to oppose someone's candidacy.

Meanwhile, you are also suggesting that it would be great to rekindle the culture wars of the 90's. I'm glad the Clinton's get along with Newt these days, but if I would like to highlight the things that Americans can accomplish together.

[defendandprotect]

61. Hillary Clinton is no Eleanor Roosevelt --- !!!

QUOTE: With a playful wink she told me, "One of my favorite pins in my political pin collection is "I Don't Like Eleanor Either." It reminds her that it's not just the president who is targeted by the haters. But "about anybody who cares about and stands up and fights for the changes that our country needs to have." UNQUOTE