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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:47 AM
Original message
Why is Clinton struggling? Insert answer here
Found this at Salon.com, thought it was worth a read:

Success has many fathers, but failure is -- well, in politics, it's not so much an orphan as it is the evil spawn of ... somebody else.

It's way too soon to call Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign a "failure." The latest ABC/Washington Post poll still gives Clinton a commanding lead over Barack Obama and John Edwards among Democrats nationwide, and a lot can happen between now and when the polls close in California on Feb. 5. But the horse race in Iowa is as close as can be. John DiStaso of Manchester's Union Leader says New Hampshire has been transformed from Clinton's "firewall" to "a battleground, a free-for-all, and -- dare we say? -- a potential last stand for the former Granite State Democratic frontrunner."

Let the recriminations begin!

Theory No. 1: The Clinton campaign hasn't engaged enough in Iowa. The Washington Post's Anne Kornblut says Clinton is scrambling in Iowa because "her initial strategy did not put special emphasis on the caucuses, treating them as part of a national campaign. Obama, meanwhile, assembled a team of advisers with lengthy track records in Iowa and frequently made the short trip from his home state to lay the groundwork for his bid. Edwards never lost his grip on a core of supporters from his 2004 campaign. The chief concern, one person with immediate knowledge of the campaign said, was that Clinton simply did not visit Iowa enough over the summer and early fall -- a common complaint in national campaigns, but one that the Clinton team was unaccustomed to. No one on her senior staff has ever been through the grueling caucus process, which emphasizes direct contact with voters and is difficult to measure through traditional polls."

For the rest:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html

Happy fighting!

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. No Oprah. They needed an Oprah.
Obviously.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You read the whole article in 1 minute?
Man, you are fast.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:54 AM
Original message
Nah.
Was posted on another site about an hour ago.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Everyone needs an Oprah. Even Oprah needs an Oprah...
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. No class.
They needed class.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Why? I'm not sure but the proof is the hiring of
THE HEAD OF THE COMPANY THAT DEFENDED UNOIN CARBIDE


AND BLACKWATER

AND EXXON VALDIS

AND CHALABI

AND ARGENTINA FASCIST JUNTA

AND THE INDONESIAN GOVERNMENT

AND THE EL SALVADORIAN GOVERNMENT

AND THE NIGERIAN GOVERNMENT

AND SAUDI ARABIA ON SEPTEMBER 14 2001

AND THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT TO PROMOTE NAFTA

AND ROMANIAN DICTATOR NICOLAE CEAUCESCU

AND SOUTH KOREA South Korea (to avoid discussion of human rights issues during the 1988 Olympics)

AND THE UNITA - The US sponsored Angolan guerrilla army

AND BABCOCK AND WILCOX (for Three Mile Island nuclear accident)





Burson-Marsteller
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Yeah-
I started talking about Burson-Marsteller a while ago, just made her supporters mad.

But this is the biggest signal reason I don't support Hillary.
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think Clinton being down is a shock
to the system overall. Which is why even people in the media are acting befuddled when these polls come out showing how close the race is. People also know there's the strong possiblity that Obama could SWEEP the early states which is UNFATHOMABLE for the celebrated Clinton "machine" to get spanked like that by a virtual newcomer. The media has been pumping this Clinton coronation crap into our heads for months now, and people are seeing it unravel as the days go by. Clinton is making misstep after misstep and Obama is surging in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I don't think it's a shock - everyone predicted a huge Oprah bounce.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. The Penn is mightily untoward
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. If she does fail, I think it will come down to her not being
able to engage voters enough to overcome her deficits- and she magnified her lack of charisma- for lack of a better word- by going negative against a very likable opponent.
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insanad Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Her Own Worst Enemy
There's a lot of theory as to how to win, who will win, and why they win, but the bottom line is that many many Americans, Republican and some Democrats just don't like Hillary Clinton and are still ashamed of the shennanigans of her husband as well as her lack of forthrightness throughout his presidency and her own career. She just does not and probably cannot overcome the legacy of mistrust that haunts her reputation.

Even if she does manage to rally support enough to win the nomination she'll have an even worse battle when the Rebublicans go after every nuance of her past, present, and future as well as her womanhood, her looks, her voice, etc.. It's unfair, but she will be villified continually by the Republicans, the press, and possibly the world. It will be unfortunate if the Democratic party nominates her. Not because she can't do a good job, but because her personality and history will prevent her from having a worthwhile and progressive impact on anything. She'll have to spend so much time defending the indefensible things about herself that she won't be able or allowed to focus on the real issues. The gridlock that we presently see will escalate and even more negativity and polarization will be the straw that breaks the allready overburdened camel that is the U.S. Political world. Right now, the U.S. does not need that liability and it's imperative to our future and the health of the nation to elect someone that can unify rather than polarize the various factions that drive us apart. OF course I'm speaking of Barack Obama. I'll rant more on this in another post.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. Failure ultimately comes down to the candidate
Is he/she what primary voters wanted/needed at this moment in time? By a wide margin, voters are saying they want fundamental change over experience. That's very bad news for her, no matter how the campaign plays it.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. voters want change (they may think that they are getting the same with Clinton)
PS Obama won our Democratic club straw poll.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Clinton sometimes takes her coffee black and sometimes with cream.
LOL - that is a metaphor for the way she comes across - but only for how she "comes across". In reality, she takes her coffee any goddamned way she wants to! (Which is usually whichever way the corporations tell her to)... heh, heh...
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Theory 6 is interesting
Theory No. 6: Hillary is too disciplined, especially at Christmas. The National Journal's Amy Walter says the "discipline of the well-oiled machine that is the Clinton campaign" may make "Beltway pundits and wonks swoon," but can turn off actual voters looking for a little inspiration instead. "It's like the difference between getting a vacuum cleaner for Christmas versus a nice piece of jewelry," Walter explains. "Sure, you really don't need the jewelry, but it's much more fun to open on Christmas morning. Clinton backers suggest that Iowa voters are practical people, the kind more likely to pick the vacuum. But until this year, the caucuses were held in late January, long after the New Year's confetti and Christmas trees were packed up. Does the fact that voters will be deciding on their choice during the season of 'hope' and 'inspiration' serve to propel Obama's message in a way that wouldn't happen at any other time of the year?"
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. She triangulated herself into a corner
and now she's hemmed in by bad positions on the Middle East and on health care.

It's too bad. Her voting record is largely progressive.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Overreaching on negative attacks fed the Obama-campaign image of her.
He painted her as a political animal obsessed with victory at any cost. She responded by going embarrassingly negative, followed by a series of minor scandals in which her operatives were behind sleazy attacks. I don't think she's quite as canny as she's presented herself.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. Her support is a mile long and and an inch deep. Very easy for it to go
south if anything bad happens on the campaign.
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Rageneau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. Anybody who thinks Hillary is out of this doesn't know Hillary.
Or Bill, for that matter.

Hillary will be back on top in ALL polls by the end of January.

And she will stay there.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Just wondering?
Do you base that on evidence? Or is it simply your opinion?

Either way, that's fine, not trying to fight, just trying to have a conversation.
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