FACT: Under OBAMA'S Health Care, NO ONE turned away because of a preexisting condition or illness

[FrenchieCat]

OBAMA'S healthcare proposal clearly states, "No one will be turned away because of a preexisting condition or illness.”
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress.


1st bullet point of health plan, 1st section titled; Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: -
Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.

ALSO STATES:
Insurers would have to issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status. The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency.

--------------
This is in answer to the following:

Elizabeth Edwards takes aim at Obama

John Edwards' wife Elizabeth blasted Barack Obama’s health care plan today, telling voters at an Iowa campaign stop that it would not cover her.

“I did a radio interview today, and I heard a radio commercial for Sen. Obama that indicated where it said in there that his health care program covered more Americans than either Sen. Clinton or John. That is actually not true,” said Edwards.

“There’s 15 million people or so — I’d be one of those — the hardest to insure …who are left out of his system.
It’s just kind of a complete untruth.”
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/02/elizabeth-edwards-takes-aim-at-obama/

Mrs. Edwards was alluding to her pre-existing condition.

Please note that Obama's health care plan proposal makes it possible for Mrs. Edwards to be insured under his plan.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

1. No one's turned away under the current H.I.P.A.A. plans, either...

...you just pay twice the premium as people without pre-existing conditions. You also receive significantly lower benefits.

Example: Blue Cross $1500 Deductible maximum lifetime benefits, $2 million.

H.I.P.A.A. version of the same Blue Cross Plan: maximum lifetime benefits, $500K.

So we can all take victory laps for the Obama plan if it's not just a simple re-write of H.I.P.A.A...

Make sure you read the fine print.

[sandnsea]

3. Premiums will not depend upon health status

"charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status"

Please do read the fine print.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Can you provide where that is stated in the Obama Health Plan

in the fine print you want me to read?
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

Thanks! :hi:


Barack Obama's Record
Health Insurance: In 2003, Barack Obama sponsored and passed legislation that expanded health care coverage to 70,000 kids and 84,000 adults. In the U.S. Senate, Obama cosponsored the Healthy Kids Act of 2007 and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) Reauthorization Act of 2007 to ensure that more American children have affordable health care coverage.
Women's Health: Obama worked to pass a number of laws in Illinois and Washington to improve the health of women. His accomplishments include creating a task force on cervical cancer, providing greater access to breast and cervical cancer screenings, and helping improve prenatal and premature birth services.
-------------------------
What's your candidates' track record on health care insurance? Wasn't he against Universal Health Care before he was for it? :shrug:

Edwards' Healthcare Shift
Edwards wasn't always a fan of having the government provide universal health coverage. In 2003 and 2004, during his first campaign for president, he backed a far more modest proposal that was estimated to cover about half of those who lacked health insurance -- and criticized rivals who had universal plans for what he portrayed as fiscal irresponsibility.

"What we ought to be doing is something that number one is achievable and number two is responsible," Edwards said in July 2003, in reference to then-rep. Richard Gephardt's, D-Mo., universal healthcare plan, according to The Washington Post.

Late in the Democratic primary fight, when Edwards was trying to topple Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., he contrasted his plan with Kerry's by pointing out that it was less expensive. He said at the time that his $53 billion healthcare plan would cover about 21 million people, including all children under age 21; Kerry's plan was pitched as costing $72 billion, to cover 27 million people.

"We will be able to attract the support we need to get my plan actually done, so we don't spend 15 or 20 years debating the issue," Edwards said in February 2004.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/09/edwards-healthc.html

[Amerigo Vespucci]

7. I didn't say that it was in the plan...

...I encouraged people to read the fine print to make sure that they will not pay a higher premium due to pre-existing conditions.

[karynnj]

29. even then it is NOT what EE said

she said she couldn't be insured not that she would have higher premiums.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

9. Loophole #1, page 4, Section 2:

"Insurers would be required to justify an above-average premium increase to the Exchange." (http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf)

That's how Blue Cross and the rest are charging H.I.P.A.A. rates right now...they "justify an above average prmium increase" due to pre-existing conditions under a claim that the insured person is a higher risk.

The PDF you linked to is a proposal. It is not a plan. No health insurance carriers have signed on and agreed to its terms. This is a document that expresses what Obama would like to accomplish. I'm not taking issue with that.

I am just saying that if Obama specifically addressed H.I.P.A.A. and his plan to do away with it, I'd be impressed. People need to understand that the insurance companies are not going to simply stop charging double premiums. The "justification" process alluded to above will be a long, drawn-out battle. Count on it.

[Lurking Dem]

8. Also under HIPAA

you have to have been covered under a plan previously and exhausted your COBRA (at exorbitant cost) before you can be taken on a private coverage plan.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

11. I was, and when I gave up Blue Cross...

...they sent me an eligibility letter to pick up insurance again at some point.

But my concern is that there is a big difference between "no one turned away due to pre-existing conditions" and "no one charged a higher monthly premium due to pre-existing conditions."

See my post above...the Obama proposal says that providers would have to "justify" above-average premiums. It does not say that above-average premiums cannot be charged. As such, it leaves the door wide open for a plan which is not an improvement on H.I.P.A.A. at all.

[Lurking Dem]

17. All of the plans are vague

on some points because nothing anyone is proposing is going to get through both houses of Congress untouched (or unscathed, possibly).

But he does touch on it in this:

? Affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles. Participants will be charged fair premiums and minimal co-pays for deductibles for preventive services.

? Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP
but still need assistance will receive income-related federal subsidies to keep
health insurance premiums affordable. They can use the subsidy to buy into the
new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.

The National Health Insurance Exchange part which you referenced includes establishing rules and transparency so people can compare actual costs.

Barack Obama will prevent companies from abusing their monopoly power through unjustified price increases. In markets where the insurance business is not competitive, his plan will force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care instead of keeping exorbitant amounts for profits and administration. Obama’s
new National Health Insurance Exchange will help increase competition by insurers.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

23. I hear you, and my point is basically this...

...I'll high-five the program when I see the specifics.

I'm not trashing the program, but I can't get excited over intent. Because I've been burned by the Blue Cross version of H.I.P.A.A., once I am assured that Obama has successfully implemented a plan that does not charge double premiums, I'll be the first person to give credit where credit is due.

In the year before I gave up coverage, Blue Cross enjoyed something like a 110% increase in profits while justifying premium increases as the result of "rising health care costs." The issue is that they set a target to hit 110% profits.

So as I've said elsewhere on this thread, I'll celebrate the plan, not the proposal. Money talks and...well, everyone knows the rest of that one.

[Lurking Dem]

24. I'm not jumping up and down

about any of the plans, actually. But it's a start.

I lost my coverage in a divorce. Then the HIPAA regs got passed but I hadn't been covered so I couldn't get private insurance. TennCare which, at the time, was a gold standard of state plans was going to charge me $1200 a month because of my pre-existing issues.

Single mom, huge non covered medical expenses PLUS $1200 month for the covered stuff? Yeah, right.

But there are so many things to consider in changing such an entrenched system. Like the 1.5 - 2 million people employed by insurance companies, controlling outrageous pharma costs (the re-importation clauses I think all the big 3 plans have will help a lot in that regard), the mostly bankrupt state Medicaid programs, etc.

I guess what I am saying is, there is no easy fix and we're going to have to dig in and hold firm.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

25. Exactly. It's a start, the intentions are good.

The reason there's no easy fix is that the health care companies have been allowed to get away with so much for so long, and they're not going to give that up without a fight.

I was paying $650 PER MONTH for a $1500 deductible PPO Blue Cross H.I.P.A.A. plan. The non-H.I.P.A.A. $1500 deductible PPO plan cost $365 at the time.

It's a proposal, not a plan. When the health care providers sign up and offer coverage, it's a plan.

[Lurking Dem]

27. Thank you for a refreshing

discussion of policy.

:toast:

[frazzled]

2. Why would she so blatantly lie, when this information is so easily verifiable?

It must be desperation .... but out and out lying? That is incredibly low, especially to play off her own illness.

[alteredstate]

5. Maybe she doesn't know the details of Obama's health care plan

n/t

[FrenchieCat]

6. Possible......

but then, why make a comment? :shrug:

[karynnj]

26. Then she should not speak about it

The Edwards' campaign has healthcare experts, I'm sure they have detailed analyses that compare the plans. If she didn't know the provisions, why would she say this.

Consider the timing of this - you have to be pretty naive to think this was not intentional and a pretty nasty trick - with almost no time to correct before the caucus. There have been a few borderline attacks by Edwards - this goes over the line. They are counting on sympathy to give her teflon for attacks.

[Tejanocrat]

12. Because she believes she's the only one with access to Google. What a moran!

[Tejanocrat]

10. You know that's a feature of Edwards' plan and Hillary's plan, too, right? Also, you are aware what

happens when you have (1) no mandate and (2) no exclusion for preexisting illness or injury?

Why would I have insurance AT ALL if I can wait until I get sick and ONLY THEN go buy insurance knowing that the insurance company can't turn me down because I waited until I was sick to buy insurance?

Why would I pay premiums when I was healthy if I didn't have to?

I WOULDN'T!

Under Obama's plan, healthy people have a DISINCENTIVE to get health insurance. You know what that does for everyone else? It makes their premiums SKYROCKET.

If you don't understand this, you should spend less time posting inane bullshit on the internet and enroll in a community college to better yourself.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Your panties are showing.....

You have an opinion, but that's all that it is. There are no facts attached to your information.

as for what is inane bullshit as you callit? well, that's relative.

[creeksneakers2]

30. Russert (who I don't respect) brought that up on his show

The health insurance companies say they'll refuse to allow undeniable access rules unless purchasing health insurance is mandated.

I don't blame them. They'll get all the big payout cases with no healthy people to pay in the premiums to cover the cost of the people with the pre-existing conditions. And they have a point. Why buy health insurance when you're healthy when you can automatically get it the moment you're ill?

Some here would say that's a good reason to get rid of the insurance companies completely. That's what you'd have to do to have guaranteed access with no mandated participation. I don't think getting rid of private insurance is a marketable political position now though.

[karynnj]

34. If that happens, it means that when Congress writes the actual legislation

they will either have mandates in OR they will make a law on what the insurance companies must do. I assume that the actual final version of health care will be formed as much by people like Kennedy, chair of the committee that includes health and people like Kerry, who is a senior Senator on the Finance sub- committee that oversees health with respect to how it impacts Finance issues and other Senators not added due to my ignorance as by who the President is. The key is that all Democrats would actively support the effort and that is important. (The last time this wasn't true - HRC's contribution to S-CHIP was bringing her reluctant husband on board.

[Hieronymus]

14. No one will be refused coverage under Edwards' plan ... the

poorest Americans will be subsidized 100%, and subsidies will exist for those earning less than $100,000.

[Auntie Bush]

15. Frenchie, I haven't been studying the differences in the health plans

suggested by the top 3 candidates...but I trust your knowledge and research. But, doesn't Hillary's plan also cover pre existing conditions?
Just wondering?

[Tejanocrat]

16. Of course all three plans do. She's just pushing a worn out agenda, and like a flare of herpes,

she'll be over with in a month when we have picked a decent nominee.

[FrenchieCat]

20. Who, Elizabeth Edwards?

But you are quite right....."she'll be over with in a month when we have picked a decent nominee."

Personally, I'm not sure why Elizabeth Edwards made that comment in giving the false impression that Obama's plan is different from John Edwards' in covering existing conditions? Does seem strange. :shrug:

[Auntie Bush]

22. deceitful is more like it.

Not just strange. This verifies why I don't trust Edwards.

[karynnj]

28. deceitful and timed the night before the caucus

In 2004, the only things that made me trust JRE, against my better judgment, was that he was married to EE and Kerry selected him as VP. I now actually have a lower opinion of her than him. Given the timing this is Rovian.

[Auntie Bush]

31. That's not the first catty thing she has said lately.

I'm very disappointed in her too. Seems like she is John's attack dog to protect him from sounding negative. But I don't fall for it and I'm glad
to see you don't either. They seem nice but as much as I'd like to support him and his message...I don't trust him.

[karynnj]

33. This goes beyond catty - healthcare is a major issue

and she is making a very emotional statement that those who most need insurance won't get it under Obama's plan. It appears from Obama's plan that she is wrong. Now, this was not a response to a question, where it is possible that she just didn't know, this was a statement she purposely made on the eve of the caucus. Earlier, it would have been fact checked and rejected. As is, it was designed to pull voters from Obama to Edwards. I hope that it is roundly rejected as untrue in the media and that the interactive nature of the caucus makes it so the truth becomes known. (She's smart enough to have been able to know where Obama's web site was and to have read the health care plan. )

[FrenchieCat]

19. They all do....which is why Elizabeth Edwards stating that Obama's plan wouldn't

is being challenged in my op.

:hi:

[WinkyDink]

18. STILL all about the citizenry BUYING INSURANCE, NOT getting health-care!

"...to buy affordable health coverage."

Just more customers for Big Insurance.

[FrenchieCat]

21. No one is offering anything much different.....

The health care plan of the top three candidates are very similar.....in that respect.

[eridani]

32. He says nothing about what they are allowed to CHARGE sick people, though

Nor does he say anything about what they should do when their claims are denied. Nor about indirect cherrypicking by offering dramatically lower prices to healthy people, as the privatized Medicare Advantage is now doing.

why any of the top three think that private insurers will not fight them tooth and nail on obvious attempts to limit their profits totally bewilders me. Why not be hung for a sheep instead of a lamb?