"Angry" moments in debates - Hillary versus Ronald Reagan

[MarkInLA]

For all of you who are criticizing Hillary for her forceful response in tonight's debate, I want you to look at this clip of Ronald Reagan. I'm sure that most of you have seen it - it's been shown many times in the media throughout the years. It's almost always talked about as a positive moment for Reagan in the debates.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bHve9iQymqE&feature=related

Now, compare his outburst - which wasn't exactly substantive - to Hillary's response in tonight's debate. Please tell me why Hillary's response is seen by some as "bickering and angry" and why Reagan's outburst was seen by many as "strong" and "admirable".

Ironically, Reagan's "moment" was also at a New Hampshire debate.

[Colobo]

1. Apples and oranges.

[MarkInLA]

5. .

.

[Colobo]

8. Hi newbie, how are you?

Don't forget to donate to DU whenever you have time.

[jackson_dem]

22. His posting is as substantive as his candidate

[desi]

25. Not to fret Mark

we were ALL newbies at one time and most of us were never fucking repukes.

on edit: also there are many old timers here too poor to contribute and it's not a requirement in order to participate. Being a Democrat/Liberal/Progressive is the only "hurdle."

[Colobo]

26. I'm like Hillary in that sense

we were both Republicans at one point.

[desi]

29. And that's where the "similarities" end

she's done much more for Democrats and the Democratic Party than most of her detractors.... ;-)

[KennedyGuy]

2. Because its OK to attack a woman as shrill and angry

I don't know why women aren't bothered by this..

[annie1]

13. i'm really fucking pissed off about it, but here it is so prevalent...

that the sheer numbers of people and their sheer hatred for hillary is overwhelming. and yes, i think it goes hand in hand.

[aquart]

3. "Bickering"? But there's no sexism on DU.

A deliberately connotative word.

[morgan2]

4. because when reagan was campaigning

people wanted someone to be tough and take the united states pride back. Now the United States has lost its pride, by attempting to be to talk too tough. People want someone to be sane and smart, not emotional and overly aggressive.

[MarkInLA]

9. Uhh....I doubt people had that "big picture" in mind back then, but thanks anyway (n/t)

[terisan]

14. Are you kidding. Being aggressive in the cause of freedom and justice is no vice!

The presidency is no place for wimpiness.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. What a piece of sh*t Reagan was.....

... watching that put me in a very bad mood.

[JohnnyLib2]

7. Excellent point!

Thank you for the astute comparison.

[annie1]

12. Why is there so much fucking sexism on a website full of progressives?...

it is so fucking oppressive! it's unreal.

[terisan]

16. Some progressives are closet regressives.

[JohnnyLib2]

17. Much denial. Much education needed.

[annie1]

10. so true.

[HeraldSquare212]

11. He was in the middle of a heated dispute, apparently

so the outburst was considered in line with the context. That's just my attempt to explain the difference.

[MarkInLA]

21. I'm sorry, but I disagree

If it was a woman who bellowed, "I PAID FOR THIS MICROPHONE!", can you imagine the media response? It probably would have been the end of her campaign.

[HeraldSquare212]

23. The video linked to suggests there was an argument on the stage

he didn't just jump up and make the comment, there was an ongoing and heated dispute on the stage that he was reacting to. So, he was in a tough and contentious moment and mastered it, so the thinking went. It was above and beyond typical debate back and forth.

[question everything]

15. I know. When I heard that ABC was going to determine who was

going to participate, I asked, here, on DU, where is Reagan when we need him

(and I have never had any use for him)

[Quixote1818]

18. How about when Bush got angry at Kerry in their debate?

Kerry questioned Bush's judgment and Bush got angry at Kerry. (It looked very bad for Bush)

Edwards questioned Hillary as a "change agent" and Hillary got angry at Edwards. (Mixed reviews)

[Drunken Irishman]

19. When has an angry Democrat ever succeeded?

Wasn't that the big knock on Dean, that he was too angry? I remember, as a Dean supporter, hearing it over and over again. People derided him for being mean and angry and that it wouldn't play with many Democratic voters.

The country isn't looking for someone to be angry, that was more 2004. Today they are looking for someone to offer hope and optimism. Someone like JFK, RFK and MLK. They could be angry, but generally their message was of optimism over fear and anger. And right now, that's what many people are pining for and why Obama won Iowa.

[Cha]

20. Yeah, hillary...the new

reagun.

[Catherine Vincent]

24. The difference is because it's Hillary. nt

[desi]

27. You know what's funny about this?

Some are comparing Hillary handing Edwards his ass to the "Dean Scream." How long is it going to take people and how many times do they have to be told that there was NO Damn "Dean Scream" as it was portrayed in the M$M?
Good night for our candidates eh?

[BenDavid]

28. When O&E tried the old double team HRC reconized it and

came after both and HRC scored points in so doing. Hell, you obama folks can call it what you want but after your candidates lackluster performance I would do all I could to speak bad about HRC.... HRC is taking no chit off of obama or edwards and one of the best lines was when hrc said obama should be debating hisself with all the flip flops he has made....

Way to go tonight HRC. You did yourself proud....oh and one other thing. In all her years as working to help others she has not gained monetary wise as some folks have. She does her work and the only thanks she gets is seeing that someone is helped by what she and others have achieved..

Ben David

[chieftain]

30. Excellent Point and an Apt Comparison. (eom)