Voting present as a state legislator & missing half a year in his 1st Senate term to campaign.

[rinsd]

The Obama experience!

Fear it!

[Renew Deal]

1. Yes, and compare that to being elected senator on your husbands last name

Then taking all sides of every difficult issue and being wrong on the rest (IWR amongst others). Have you figured out where she stands on drivers licenses for illegals yet?

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. We did not elect HRC on her last name. She campaigned and earned

the senate seat in her own right.

[Renew Deal]

8. Right, we would have elected some other out of stater with no experience

Right...

(I'm from NY too)

[Fredda Weinberg]

17. Then you know she was invited to run ... and I for one, appreciate

her long term plans. Did you get involved in her first Senate campaign? I did.

[Renew Deal]

19. I was busy with Gore

But there's no question that she was a celebrity candidate, not an activist, or elected official.

[Muttocracy]

22. "invited" - how nice - by whom? based on what?

MAYBE 'cause Bill wanted it for her?

[Fredda Weinberg]

31. Look it up ... even the Republicans in our state recruited her n/t

[Muttocracy]

56. well, so much for her liberal credentials n/t

[Fredda Weinberg]

95. We want a winning candidate, don't we? n/t

[Muttocracy]

12. you just made the argument for Obama

Run a good campaign and you're entitled to win the election, prior experience be damned.

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. No ... we made sure HRC served out a full first term

Hold your candidate to the same standard ... then we'll talk.

[Muttocracy]

20. who the heck is "we"?

I guess you personally held her back in 2004?

And my candidate was Biden, and I don't like any of the ones left very much. You're clearly not interested in logical argument. Your argument was that Clinton didn't need any elected experience in NY prior to winning her Senate seat, just a campaign.

[Renew Deal]

23. don't ask

[Fredda Weinberg]

28. NY has a history - we're proud of giving a seat to RFK

And "we" are native NYers who pay attention to state politics. Who are you?

[Muttocracy]

34. I would have opposed RFK on the same principle

Spent almost all my adult life in NY state, but, unlike you, I'm not one of special people who gets to choose senators and presidents I guess.

Noone has told me what else HRC did for NY state yet.

[Big Blue Marble]

100. Did she promise to complete her second term when she ran the second time?

[ISUGRADIA]

108. Yeah, I'm sure you were the ones who made her do that

[Renew Deal]

21. Obama has 11 years if elected experience

10 of them prior to running for president. 8 of them prior to running for senate.

[Fredda Weinberg]

33. And that won him no respect from Charlie Rangel. Ignore reality, but

that's your candidate.

[Renew Deal]

38. You're wrong again.

That's common.

[JackORoses]

32. She used NY as a stepping stone to the White House, nothing more

Do you actually think she did it to help out New Yorkers?

It was pure political manipulation. You'll see how loyal she is to NY when she no longer needs you to get a leg up.

[rinsd]

35. Because Obama is a dedicated Senator from Illinois who thought nothing of the Presidency!

:rofl:

[Renew Deal]

40. I was used by Hillary for political reasons.

And so were all NYers. That's no secret.

[rinsd]

43. Which is why Obama is dedicated to serving out his FIRST Senate term right?

:rofl:

[Muttocracy]

53. um, he has a career history in IL, unlike her in NY

but don't worry about defending her, just keep attacking him and trying to change the subject :eyes:

[rinsd]

61. Yes, 11 years as a state legislator voting present on the tough issues.

Not sure I would tout that "record".

[Muttocracy]

65. law professor, community organizer, actually lived there

unlike HRC in NY

still no answer to what she's done for NY state....

edit - answer from others posted below....

[Renew Deal]

79. Actually 8 years in the state leg voting present to protect a womens right to choose.

Are you anti-choice?

[ecstatic]

101. is this true? nt

[Renew Deal]

106. Yes, It's true.

Pam Sutherland, president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, vouched again in the conference call that Obama’s present votes were made a the request of Illinois abortion-rights advocates.

“It was our strategy from Planned Parenthood,” Sutherland said.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4071517

[jackson_dem]

111. He voted present 130 times. Only a handful of those votes related to abortion

He voted present on many other tough issues such as gun control.

[Fredda Weinberg]

94. You don't get it, do you ... we asked her here. That's a public fact

So take your small mind elsewhere. HRC has been excellent on constituent service, so what you call manipulation is your problem.

[paulk]

105. NY didn't seem to mind

when they re-elected her.

Overwhelmingly.

I mean, don't you think if she'd done a crappy job those first 6 years the voters of NY would have expressed their displeasure?

[Big Blue Marble]

98. She came a calling with that Clinton brand.

Do you seriously think that the former First Lady of Arkansas would be a senator of New York?

[rinsd]

4. Have you figured out where she stands on drivers licenses for illegals yet?

Very funny coming from an Obama supporter.

He had time to prepare for that question and he still fucked it up.

[cd3dem]

11. shame on you! this is a very sexist remark!!!

and Hillary took heat for saying she understood another persons point but did not necessarily agree with it... and the next debate... Obama stumbled on the very same question and no one has challenged that! he could not give a straight answer! open your eyes!

[Renew Deal]

18. There is no shame in the truth

NY would never have elected a person from out of state with no experience. She had one important characteristic that made her a viable candidate. She was the presidents wife. Make no mistake about it. Hillary is a celebrity candidate like Schwarzenegger.

[cd3dem]

42. IRON MY SHIRT!!!!

Hillary Clinton is not a cookie baking housewife! there is not a single soul that believes if Hillary were to win the presidency that Bill would spend his time discussing the china patterns with the White House staff... so why do we assume her time in the White House was that of the dutiful woman? why? because even so-called liberals are sexist!!!!

[Muttocracy]

50. looks to me like HRC is Bill's ticket around that darn constitutional amendment n/t

[Renew Deal]

76. She was elected because she was famous.

And she's famous for marrying Bill. There's no dispute about that.

[cd3dem]

87. there are many great couples... and the Clintons are among them!

many women have made their husbands successful but because we live in a misogynist world.. the men take all the credit!!!

[Big Blue Marble]

102. It is not sexist to say that she is running on the Clinton brand.

As a strong feminist of long standing, I do not like you screaming sexist in an effort to shut down the charge.
If you really believe that she would be a serious candidate without her husband, you are in denial.
Bill built this brand with her help, but she is campaigning in his reflected glory.

[Cha]

120. It's the truth so don't

throw out yur "sexist remark" routine. I'm in New York,too, and have defended hillary in the past and then I saw what she deliberately did to get herself on the campaign trail and it's at the expense of other people's blood.

[cd3dem]

123. Women Are Never Front-Runners

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/opinion/08steinem.html?ex=1215493200&en=07809ff6a3077b3b&ei=5087&excamp=GGOPgloriasteinem&WT.srch=1&WT.mc_ev=click&WT.mc_id=OP-S-E-GG-NA-S-gloria_steinem

[VotesForWomen]

110. hmm, do you think hill helped bill get where he got in the first place? or are wives just maids w/ b

maids with 'benefits?'

[redqueen]

3. Missing half a year?

Are you sure about that?

[mkultra]

5. of course

If hillary said it, then it must be true. Of course she could say that he missed half a year but he didnt miss half a year and they would nod thier heads in agrement.

[rinsd]

6. He's missed 37% of the Congressional votes this session.

And its only his 3rd year in office.

[redqueen]

7. Ouch. (nt)

[Muttocracy]

9. ?s on Clinton's record.

To be fair, hasn't Clinton missed a lot of votes this Senate term too?

Also, I'm still waiting to hear what Clinton has done for New York.

I've heard/seen

* some funding for NYC Ground Zero issues

* some minor pork scattered around the state

* some help to the defense contractors up here? maybe that would have happened anyway (jobs, but ick)

Things still look the same in upstate NY to me... Maybe I'm just not hearing what she's doing, but I didn't find it on her senate website.

I can't believe anyone seriously thinks she ran for senate here because she cared about the state where she and Bill bought a house a few months earlier.

Why didn't she run in Arkansas or Illinois?

edit to add - link to a senate newsletter posted by someone below...

[rinsd]

15. Hillary has missed 23.3% of votes this session of Congress

Here's WaPO handy Congressional database. You can scroll down and see her missed votes and link out to every vote she's missed since she came into office.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/c001041/

[Muttocracy]

25. sounds like they're both putting themselves first to me n/t

[cd3dem]

89. Hillary promised not to run her first term... for this reason!

[AtomicKitten]

10. I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning!

[question everything]

13. What bothers me most is his lack of understanding of foreign policy

".. as chair of a Senate subcommittee on Europe, he has never made an official trip to Western Europe (except a one-day stopover in London in August 2005) or held a single policy hearing. He's never faced off with foreign leaders and has no idea what a delicate sparring match diplomacy in the Middle East can be. And at a time in which the United States has gone from sole superpower to global pariah in a mere seven years, these things matter.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x332028

Once we lost Biden, Dodd and Richardson, Clinton is the only one who has traveled the globe, yes, as first lady, met with foreign leaders as well as regular folks, had a chance to study the difference in approaches to life and to what matters most in different cultures.

[Muttocracy]

26. loss of the experience

I hate the fact we've lost the 3 foreign experience candidates.

Clinton had first-lady tours. Barack has a degree in international relations. Don't know any experience in this area from Edwards.

Not much for any of them. :(

[mkultra]

44. hillary?

And im guessing that Hillary has?

[Mass]

55. And when did Reza Aslan become an expert in foreign policy?

He has an excellent understanding of the Muslim World and, as indicated at the end of the article, is a writer and an scholar of religions , but this does not make him an expert in foreign policy and he is repeating claims about Obama subcommittee that are ludicrous. He has been chair for about one year and Europe was far from being the most important issue, so how is it a problem that he has not had a meeting of his subcommittee.

Certainly, Obama does not have Biden, Dodd, or even Richardson experience, but he has at least as much as Bill Clinton.

http://www.rezaaslan.com/bio.html

[jackson_dem]

113. Europe's economy is something like $10 trillion

Not an important issue? Clinton was governor for 10 or 12 years. Obama's "experience" pales in comparison.

[killbotfactory]

14. You have to be present to vote present

[cd3dem]

24. read it and then tell me how he is a leader!

It’s Not Just ‘Ayes’ and ‘Nays’: Obama’s Votes in Illinois Echo

"In 1999, Barack Obama was faced with a difficult vote in the Illinois legislature — to support a bill that would let some juveniles be tried as adults, a position that risked drawing fire from African-Americans, or to oppose it, possibly undermining his image as a tough-on-crime moderate.

In the end, Mr. Obama chose neither to vote for nor against the bill. He voted “present,” effectively sidestepping the issue, an option he invoked nearly 130 times as a state senator."


"Among those, Mr. Obama did not vote yes or no on a bill that would allow certain victims of sexual crimes to petition judges to seal court records relating to their cases. He also voted present on a bill to impose stricter standards for evidence a judge is permitted to consider in imposing a criminal sentence.

On the sex crime bill, Mr. Obama cast the lone present vote in a 58-to-0 vote.

Mr. Obama’s campaign said he believed that the bill violated the First Amendment. The bill passed 112-0-0 in the House and 58-0-1 in the Senate."



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

[CyberPieHole]

27. Barack Obama should be ashamed of himself...

the problem is, he has NO shame.

[Muttocracy]

45. see the abortion rights group for an explanation of the present votes

A group of Dems and moderate Republicans joined together to vote "present" so Repubs wouldn't campaign against them using the inflammatory titles of the bills (Democrat Smith voted against the "baby protection act" or whatever). other Dems joined the ones in vulnerable seats. Present really means no because it's the yes tally that counts.

I think it's weird, but that's what IL legislators themselves and most media report rather than Clinton's campaign.

But hey, doesn't sound like you folks are interested in debating facts.

[Connie_Corleone]

58. No, they're not interested in the facts. Only nitpicking.

And both Clinton and Obama missed a lot of votes in the Senate last year. McCain has missed the most votes. John Edwards missed a lot of votes when he was running for president in 2003/2004.

That's what happens when Senators run for president.

[cd3dem]

64. Obama should not claim to be above it all and a leader if he hides from his vote

the republican party set up the democrats on the Iraq vote... very few people voted against it because it was considered political suicide... to vote against it showed they were weak on terrorism and military strength... the republicans have attacked democrats on this issue for years... scare people into voting republican because the democrats are afraid to fight! Wellstone took the chance that he may not be reelected on this vote! and he payed the ultimate price... as some of us in MN believe it was no accident!

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1009-05.htm

Wellstone was in the minority of those who did not vote for "A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq"

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

Obama claims he is above it all... but he failed to stick his neck on the line in Illinois and his job to vote what he really believed! lobbyists asking them to vote a certain way is no excuse... even if the lobbyist is a liberal!

[jackson_dem]

114. What about the other 110-120 present votes that had zero to do with abortion?

If present really means no why didn't Obama just vote no?

[cd3dem]

119. No means No

[jackson_dem]

121. That isn't what Barack himself says

[cd3dem]

122. "Present" means No

[William769]

29. Sen. Obama voted 'present' 129 times while in the State Senate

In 1999, Sen. Obama voted 'present' more often than he voted 'no'.

At least 36 times, Sen. Obama was either the only State Senator to vote present or was part of a group of six or fewer to vote that way.

Sen. Obama was the only State Senator to vote 'present' on a bill that sought to protect the privacy of sex-abuse victims, and the only state senator to not support the bill.

Sen. Obama was the only State Senator to vote 'present' on an adoption bill that imposed stricter requirements for parental fitness, and the only State Senator to not support the bill.

Sen. Obama voted 'present' on a bill that would increase penalties for the use of a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school.

Sen. Obama voted 'present' on a bill to prohibit the presence of adult sex shops near schools, places of worship, and day care facilities; bill allows local governments to regulate the presence of adult sex shops.

[cd3dem]

96. more details

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html

[CyberPieHole]

30. Kick and recommend...Obama has been a disaster as a Senator...

what makes anyone think he will be any different as President?:shrug:

[GalleryGod]

84. AND..this guy was a playboy Dilettante

[jackson_dem]

116. How does Obama's experience compared to JFK's?

Can we finally see a side by side comparison? Obamites invoke JFK all the time to justify Obama's inexperience but we never see an actual comparison of their experience. Anyone know why?

[ISUGRADIA]

109. Disaster...you must mean Hillary's top down, I won't compromise

health care plan in 1993. Now that was a disaster and was one of the reasons we've went through 12 years of Repub Congress hell.

[Skidmore]

36. Exactly what are you trying to imply here?

[goldcanyonaz]

37. Kyl-Lieberman; Obama couldn't even bother to show up. Now, that's leadership!

[Renew Deal]

41. Is it better to show up and be wrong?

:shrug:

[William769]

47. Goes back to his voting present now doesn't it?

[Renew Deal]

71. No

It's a philosophical question.

[goldcanyonaz]

49. Newsflash, they are paid to SHOW up. 16 percent of missed votes for Obama.

[Renew Deal]

72. The vote was moved

To a time he couldn't be there. It was intentional by Harry Reid. Besides that, Hillary is 15% no show, so try something else.

[cd3dem]

115. Hillary Clinton missed 143 of 2394 votes (6%) Barack Obama missed 177 of 1086 votes (16%)

get your facts straight!

[rinsd]

52. Yes asking a Senator to do their job is oh so taxing.

Maybe Obama will break Bush's vacation record.

[Connie_Corleone]

67. Tell your candidate to show up too while you're at it.

Or maybe it doesn't matter to you because she didn't miss as many votes as Obama?

[goldcanyonaz]

70. She's only missed 6 percent of votes as a Senator, pretty impressive compared to others.

[Connie_Corleone]

77. Rinsd says it was 23.3% of missed votes.

[goldcanyonaz]

81. Maybe he/she is combining his record for both state, and U.S. Senator?

I just know that Clinton has only missed 6 percent as a Senator and Obama has missed 16 percent, like Edwards.

[rinsd]

83. 23.3% missed votes for Hillary & 37.6% missed votes for Obama are for this Congressional session

Here's WaPo Congressional database links to each

Obama - http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/

Clinton - http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/c001041/

[rinsd]

75. I expect them to miss some votes during campaign season.

But nearly 2 out of every 5 votes is not what I expect.

[Renew Deal]

73. How did Hillary vote on Peru trade?

:shrug:

[rinsd]

80. I believe it was NV. Same as Obama.

What was Obama's vote on Kyl Lieberman?

The MoveOn censure?

[Renew Deal]

92. Yes asking a Senator to do their job is oh so taxing.

Maybe Hillary will break Bush's vacation record.

[GalleryGod]

85. Missed lotsa votes in 1960 & 1968

[beachmom]

39. I believe Planned Parenthood. Not the lies of the Clinton campaign. n/t

[William769]

48. See post #29, and feel free to point out the lies.

[GalleryGod]

86. As Do I...

He missed lots votes from 1965-8

[cali]

46. spam sundae

one slice spam, one scoop mint chocolate chip icecream, 2 tbs butterscotch sauce. Place spam on a plate, put ice cream on top and spoon butterscotch sauce over it all.

Enjoy.

[Connie_Corleone]

51. The present vote has been explained several times on here.

Planned Parenthood in Illinois already explained this, so it's a waste of time to rehash it on DU since people like you don't give a damn.

Also, both Clinton and Obama have missed a lot of votes in the Senate last year because they are RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. John Edwards missed a lot of votes when he ran for president in 2003/2004. That's what happens when people in Congress decide they want to run for president. I wish it wasn't that way, but it's reality.

[Muttocracy]

54. shhh, don't confuse them with facts

[rinsd]

57. Hillary has missed 23.3%, Obama has missed over 37%.

"Planned Parenthood in Illinois already explained this, so it's a waste of time to rehash it on DU since people like you don't give a damn."

As far as the abortion votes, one Obama ally gave a weak excuse that it was to protect vulnerable members.

Except that when researched only one seat of those voting under the present "protection scheme" was in remotely close. All of the others were unopposed or has won their last reelections handily. So not taking a stand was to protect a single seat in a state with a clear Dem majority.

And that just what 5 present votes? He has over 100 of them.

[Muttocracy]

60. I'd say 23 and 37% are both pretty lousy n/t

[Connie_Corleone]

68. 23.3, 37. Who the hell cares about percentages?

They both missed a lot of votes last year.

[GalleryGod]

88. So did this guy: March,1968 thru June,1968

[rinsd]

112. LOL...that Obama cult on full display.

Obama = JFK

Obama = RFK

Obama apparently can't stand on his own merits or record so he needs icons to ddistract people and carry the burden.

[Cameron27]

118. I never heard this:

"As far as the abortion votes, one Obama ally gave a weak excuse that it was to protect vulnerable members.

Except that when researched only one seat of those voting under the present "protection scheme" was in remotely close. All of the others were unopposed or has won their last reelections handily. So not taking a stand was to protect a single seat in a state with a clear Dem majority."

What the hell?

[William769]

59. Thats not the only thing he voted present on.

Care to elaborate on the rest of the present votes?

[jackson_dem]

117. Obamites pretend as if his present votes were only about abortion

They ignore the 110-120 that had nothing to do with abortion. Maybe because there is no defense of those "votes"?

[Muttocracy]

62. still no answer to my question about what she's done for NY? (#9 above)

If that's her big experience ticket, I'd like to know more about it. I looked at her campaign site and Senate site a few weeks ago and didn't see much. If I missed it please point me to it.

Thanks.

[William769]

63. Start a thread about it and you'll probably get a answer.

Your deflection in this thread won't work.

[rinsd]

66. Here's her letter to NYers on the latest session

http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=261846&

Also her Senate site has a wealth of info, its just not organized in ways that say "what she has done for NY". You have to dig a bit.

BTW what has Obama done for Illinois since he became a Senator?

[William769]

69. Didn't he give a bunch of free bust trips to Iowa?

[tammywammy]

78. What's a free bust trip?

And how do I sign up for one?

[Adelante]

103. I could use a free bust about now

:)

[Muttocracy]

74. thanks for the link

Many other Senators do have "Service to my state" parts of their site. From work, I've heard about her involvement in NY ag issues but only in vague ways and in large groups, and that was several years ago. Will read the link more carefully.

I have no idea about Obama - I'm not from IL. And I don't know why people assume I'm supporting him. I just think they BOTH fail on the experience and Senate service arguments. Like two kids scoring 36 and 40 on the exam and arguing about who flunked less ;)

All the candidates drive me nuts with their "fought for" "worked on" "stood for" etc. language - hard to figure out what it really means they did :crazy:

[cd3dem]

91. people don't value experience

Anyone who has listened to Joe Biden will walk away informed and better able to understand the issues... the guy is well-qualified... but we live in a time where experience is worthless... employers are hiring young people out of college and laying off seasoned workers... if you are 45-55 and looking for a job... forget about it! if we did not have age requirements for the job of president... Jessica Simpson would be the front-runner!

[Muttocracy]

93. yeah. for some reason I thought it would be different this time. Sigh. n/t

[GalleryGod]

90. Stats? Keeping A List & checking it TWICE !

[GalleryGod]

82. Here's a Guy with a bad Senate record of votes in 1960

[LanternWaste]

97. He should be campaigning from his Senate desk and no where else?

He should be campaigning from his Senate desk and no where else?

You partisan hacks are really pulling things out of your underwear lately. And you yourself are almost as entertaining (yet negligible) as one or two of the Obama 'droids.

As I've neither chosen on nor ruled out a candidate yet, I yet maintain the ability to both see chickenshit, and to call it chickenshit.

[Adelante]

99. I did a comparison for my DU Journal, fwiw

Clinton is in the Senate the longest, so I list her first. She also has the best record on missed votes. Her rating on voting attendance is "Average"; Edwards' rating on voting attendance is "Extremely Poor"; Obama's is "Very Poor." Edwards and Obama have similar records on missed votes. In three years, Obama sponsored 48 more bills than Edwards did in six years. In three years, one bill sponsored by Obama was successfully enacted; while two bills sponsored by Clinton in seven years were successfully enacted; and zero bills sponsored by Edwards in six years were successfully enacted. In terms of results, meaning enacted legislation, given the different time spans, Clinton and Obama performed similarly.

Clinton 7 years

Sponsored 350 bills; 2 enacted
Co-sponsored 1706 bills
Missed 6%; 143 votes of 2394
Average relative to peers

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=300022

Edwards 6 years

Sponsored 81 bills; 0 enacted
Co-sponsored 531 bills
Missed 15%; 311 votes of 2019
Extremely poor relative to peers

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=300039

Obama 3 years

Sponsored 129 bills; 1 enacted
Co-sponsored 529 bills
Missed 16%; 177 votes of 1086
Very poor relative to peers
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400629

[cd3dem]

104. Biden

Interesting LINKs... here is another one... out of the race but longer in the Senate.. Biden

Let us also not forget that who was in the Senate with each Senator... Senate majority party status and who was in the White House... makes a difference...


Statistics: Joseph Biden has sponsored 222 bills since Jan 21, 1997, of which 128 haven't made it out of committee (Average) and 6 were successfully enacted (Average, relative to peers). Biden has co-sponsored 1140 bills during the same time period (Average, relative to peers).

Missed 363 of 3717 votes (10%) since Jan 22, 1997.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=300008

[Renew Deal]

107. That should go in it's own post.

Interesting stuff.