Obama calling up the Reagan fetish goes beyond pandering

[Proud2BAmurkin]

It has an "ick" factor that will take a long time for people to cleanse from their brains.

It reeks of a lot of things, none of them good. Weakness, ambition, a hollow core, a blank slate of a candidate trying to fill in the space with poll tested words.

[mckeown1128]

1. I guess he isn't the only one.

I guess you could say the same thing about Clinton. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4091086&mesg_id=4091086

[BootinUp]

6. Geebus H. crise on a pogo stick, he had just croaked when that statement was issued.

there is no comparison you Obama loyalist you.

[Djinn]

45. yep they both suck

praising fascists responsible for the funding and resourcing of death squads is an offensive and appalling act. End of story.

[ProSense]

2. Obama pointed to Bill Clinton's

flaw

[Maribelle]

16. Obama needs to be educated on Reagan then.

"Some people seem to be missing the point. Reagan was central casting for the presidency. He was all morning in America with nothing to back it up. Least we forget, he sent us into Lebanon, then when we got creamed and Marines killed, immediately parachuted out, which is the first incident Osama bin Laden uses to make his case that the U.S. is an easy mark and won't make a stand if challenged. Like Reagan, Obama talks of hope and bringing people together, but there is nothing behind it to back it up"

[jackson_dem]

1 thing Obama thinks is Reagan curbed the "excesses" of liberalism

See pages 31-33, 36, 43, 147, 156-58, 181-82, 201, 209, 288-289, 293 of Obama's book to understand his true views of Reagan. He isn't a Reaganite but he is too pro-Reagan for any real Democrat's taste.

[Maribelle]

34. Thanks.

But I'll be taking your word for it over reading Obama's book.

[ProSense]

26. He also cultivated the corrupt GOP and enabled

their success

[midnight]

33. Speaking of Bill Clinton's flaw, I did not know that Edwards

deposed Monica Lewinsky when he was a freshman senator. That has got to be a bit odd for Hillary?

[William769]

3. Your second sentence just described Obama

So I guess they are alike!

[calteacherguy]

4. He was simply maturely stating the historical reality

not agreeing with all of Reagan's policies.

Get a grip, seriously.

[HughMoran]

5. Hopefully for him, only DU was really paying attention

It wouldn't be the first time DU has gone nuclear over an issue that the general public simply "shrugs" about. :shrug:

[calteacherguy]

8. Did he say something you disagee with?

He didn't say he supports Reagan's policies. He was describing what occured in an historical moment. We should learn from history, not deny it.

[HughMoran]

20. "Obama 08"

Sorry, I am not currently having discussions with people who advertise their preference in their sig. Nothing personal.

I gave money to both candidates and will be glad to have a discussion with non-biased people here.

[Maribelle]

7. What on earth is Obama thinking?

It boggles my mind that Obama would even think such thoughts never mind broadcast them as he has done.

[calteacherguy]

11. What "thoughts" do you disagree with? nt

[Maribelle]

43. The most egregious for me in this issue ...

"I don't want to present myself as some sort of singular figure. I think part of what is different is the times. I do think that, for example, the 1980 election was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it.

Bill Clinton, of course, did far more for this country that Reagan, Bush, and Nixon combined. And part of what Bill Clinton did was to undo some of the damage Reagan and Bush did to this nation.

[bcoylepa]

58. Obama gets it

no fan of Reagan - I am old enough to remember the damage done - but as president he created a governing majority--something both Bill Clinton and George Bush did not do. Obama knows what he is doing here - working towards getting elected - and to do that and be effective - he too will need the governing majority. Most of this country is sick to death of the divisiveness - not too many on this board - who seem to thrive on it - myself included sometimes -
activists and partisans are not the voting majority - Reagan know that and used it - looks like Obama does too

[Proud2BAmurkin]

12. "I like how Kristol and Tucker are trying to make me the nominee. How can I keep them happy"

:shrug:

[Maribelle]

22. Looks like it, doesn't it.

I hope Obama doesn't sell his whole soul.

[dpbrown]

9. Reagan was one of the worst Presidents in history

He destroyed the idea of a "common good" and it's been replaced by "whatever sells."

Typical for an actor.

[jefferson_dem]

10. Nice try, Murkin.

Obama was honest and accurate in his comments about Raygun. You and others are just having trouble dealing...

[William769]

Don't you mean MCclurkin?

[jlake]

13. Absolutely correct. And I cannot believe that Obama supporters are now defending

Reagan and his "inspiring message".

Edited for spelling.

[calteacherguy]

14. What part of history do you disagee with? nt

[jlake]

17. That Reagan was anything other than an evil con artist who rubed alot of people

into thinking he was a nice, decent guy. No Democrat should ever defend him. PERIOD.

[calteacherguy]

19. He inspired the American people.

That's a fact. I don't agree with his policies, but he met an historical moment.

Obama is right, and he's about to meet his own historical moment.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

21. to hate people with AIDS.

eom

[calteacherguy]

23. I don't diagree with you there. nt

[Usrename]

47. Your lack of any understanding of history is astonishing.

What did Reagan ever build or accomplish? Either in this country or anywhere else in the world? Name one thing.

All he ever did was destroy good stuff and break things that were working fine. What problem did he ever fix?

Can you think of anything?

He was a HUGH SUCCESS!!!!!11!!1!!111

[calteacherguy]

49. Is this a response to something I said? What did I say he accomplished? nt

[Usrename]

62. I must have misunderstood.

I thought you were arguing that Reagan was a successful president.

:shrug:

[jackson_dem]

28. He inspired people to not give a fuck about the least among us

[jlake]

29. Well.... if you are finally admitting that Obama is like Reagan ... an

evil empty suit puppet whose positive attributes are inspiring people at the right time .... with no substance, purpose or POSITIVE change... I applaud your honesty.

[Djinn]

46. Really?

what are you basing this on? the fact that he won 2 elections? Well I guess Chimpy inspired the nation too.

Obama has bought into the utter nonsense that a man elected by only 30% of the nation "inspired" anyone or brought any "cohesion"

Yes those that voted for him were happy and cohesive - the millions that didn't found him no more inspiring than any other politician.

Why is this specious claim being promoted by a Democrat?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

15. It's almost satire. There's almost nothing left to like much less vote for.

eom

[ProSense]

18. Here is one

defense

[jlake]

24. I disagree with that. To find a fault with Bill Clinton - fine. To say

Reagan was better is outrageous - and should not be tolerated.

[ProSense]

35. It's accurate in the context of the movement Reagan built. Obama's comments are nothing

compared to the outrageous remarks Bill Clinton made in the middle of the 2004 election:

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for.

link

[jlake]

39. First of all, Bill is not running. Secondly, though those comments are outrageous, not as outrageous

as a Democrat pandering by using Reagan the way that Republicans do.
Obama has a history of praising Reagan....and I find this disturbing.
End of Story.

[ProSense]

41. "I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq,..."

I disagree, that comment is despicable, right down to it's timing!

[Nailzberg]

37. Horribly wrong on policies, but gifted politically.

Is it wrong to acknowledge Reagan's political skill? Obama didn't say he admired Reagan's policies, and he is hardly the first Democrat to have pointed out Reagan's abilities. Reagan was very skilled, and thankfully the Repubs haven't had anyone near his abilities since.

[jlake]

40. Yes. it is wrong to praise Reagan in any form. And Obama is on the record as saying

that he believes Reagan was a "successful president".

[Nailzberg]

48. He was successful as a president. Just not for our side.

It is possible to praise Reagan's skills without agreeing with his policies.

Read Begala and Carville's book "Buck Up Suck Up". They thought Reagan was the best politician since Nixon. I don't disagree with there assessment. No one said they were great guys. In fact, they were assholes. But to not acknowledge they were skilled politically is sticking your head in the sand.

[Maribelle]

50. Reagan was a successful politician not a successful president.

Perhaps your subjective opinion needs some self examination.

[Nailzberg]

51. Yes, mine is subjective opinion, as is yours. n/t

[Maribelle]

52. I didn't express my opinion.

You quoted "politician" to support your statement "president"

Read Begala and Carville's book "Buck Up Suck Up". They thought Reagan was the best politician since Nixon

[Nailzberg]

53. And you stated he was not a successful President. Which is your opinion.

The difference between the two is Nixon could not fulfill the goals of his Presidency, and Reagan did. Reagan's success as a President WAS his success as a politician.

Reagan created a narrative that defined his presidency and his party. He split the democratic party right in half, tearing moderate democrats away from the liberals, and that Reagan movement is still evident today, as we still have trouble our party still feels the this divide. Look at how many middle class, blue collar guys still like Bush despite his policies. That's Reagan's narrative alive and well.

He achieved many of the goals of his presidency, including the demise of the Soviet Union (a collapse that had little to do with him, but hey, heck of a bullet point on a resume), left a good enough approval rating for his VP to pick up.

He was an asshole, but to think he was not successful? He was so successful it still pisses us off.

Now, you can tell me I'm wrong, but you're simply arguing your opinion over mine.

[Maribelle]

55. Paul said he was a successful politician not a successful president.

Perhaps I did not type that correctly before. But that is not my opinion.

[Maribelle]

56. There is another school of thought which is not mine.

The reason democrats flocked in droves to vote for Reagan was not because Reagan was so good but because they felt Carter was doing so poorly. Two huge issue were critical then: the hostages and the economy.

Reagan did not split the democratic party, the issues did. Reagan did not tear moderates away, they fled.

It is similar to the support Bush received over 9/11 - - it was nothing Bush did.

[Nailzberg]

64. Fled or torn away. Semantics.

Whatever you call it, it was the narrative that Reagan created, and it played so well it still reverberates today. You can not say the same of Bush's presidency.

[ProudDad]

25. EXACTLY -- thank you!

icky to the MAX...

[femrap]

27. Good description...nt. k and r

[Horse with no Name]

30. Someone that is filling a hollow shell by likening himself to Kennedy

and Reagan.
That is having your cake and eating it too.:puke:

[fooj]

31. Sounds like he picked the wrong "experts" to advise him, eh?

[tangocash77]

32. Obama fans are pretending he just thinks Reagan was a uniter, not successful, but....

Obama in fact told Meet the Press that Reagan's president was very successful

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/obama_reagan_changed_direction_of_country_in_way_bill_clinton_didnt.php

[fooj]

36. Who "dubbed" Obama the uniter? Exactly WHO has he unified?

[Jamastiene]

42. The rest of us against him.

:rofl:

[mckeown1128]

38. successful in getting his hellish agenda pushed through...

unfortunatley he WAS successful.

[billbuckhead]

44. In those terms Hitler was even better than Reagan

:eyes: Maybe Obama should say a few good things about the Fueher?

[mckeown1128]

57. Your post is the definition of a slippery slope argument. nt

[Proud2BAmurkin]

61. Don't bet against it

[CyberPieHole]

54. Great post, Proud2...Kick and recommend for the banal candidacy of Reagabama

"ick" factor indeed.

[ShortnFiery]

59. Nice try and partisan attempt to re-write history, Reagan was "a force" in the 1980s - MANY dems

voted for the man. Just because you look back and despise him based on "partisan politics" doesn't detract from the fact that he was influential. Just like you can't deny that Bill Clinton has poor "impulse control" when it comes to SEXUAL matters of the fidelity kind.

See, we all can get in the mud. I suggest you stop wading deeper? :evilgrin:

[dionysus]

60. you're like the energizer bunny of lies...astounding

[Proud2BAmurkin]

63. Which part is a lie, that it's a puke worthy comment or that it represents weakness