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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:29 AM
Original message
Obama is making a mistake.
The Clinton's are knocking him off message and distracting him from his strengths. Obama is in a situation in which he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he defends himself against the lies of Bill and Hillary, then he is knocked off message. If he says nothing, he looks weak and those lies become truths.

Obama has to find the balance, the pivot point, where he can remain on message and defend himself at the same time. He has to continue to inspire people, focus on hope and change. However, he also has to realize the Clinton strategy is rather simple:

Slash and burn and scorched earth. This is a contest to see who wants the Presidency the most, and they are willing to cost the Democratic Party our chance at the White House if it means it won't be Hillary as the nominee. Obama is the victim of this tactic, and if he wants to be the President he has to adopt the same tactic. It is a game of chicken - how long can you last until the other is either utterly destroyed or blinks?

Obama can't blink and he has no choice but to destroy Hillary and Bill, but in order to do so he cannot sacrifice himself.

First, when it comes to Bill - be dismissive. Do not try and correct the record on his distortions and lies. It drowns out your message. Instead, be dismissive and harsh in your language. "My campaign is a campaign of hope, and we reject the politics of lies - which are the tactics the Clinton's want to engage in. My record speaks for itself, and anyone interested can go to my website - barackobama.com."

That gets people onto your website, gets them signed up, and will enable you to collect more small donations to fuel your campaign - you will need the money more than ever going into Super Tuesday. On your website, have it updated hour by hour to reflect all of the spin and comments made by setting your record straight.

Second, have your truth squad also be your attack squad. Send them out daily to attack the Clinton's. Have them show no mercy in their viciousness, and push them down into the muddy trenches even deeper than the Clinton's. Have Private Investigators look for any juicy scandals that your campaign can use to educe Clinton fatigue and remind everyone of the endless scandal's of the 90's. "No mercy, no remorse," should be your campaign's motto when it comes to engaging the Clinton's.

Third, when you deal with Hillary do not ever be dismissive. It makes you look sexist. Take the high road, and ensure that America sees you as a candidate running for President for the right reasons, rather than for personal power and glory as opposed to the Clinton's. However, always be ready to pivot back to your core message. You should never be thrown off message, and anything you say should end with bringing things right back around to where you want them to be.

When you attack Hillary, don't attack her yourself but instead act as if your attacks are really "concerns" that constantly raise her weaknesses to the forefront. "I am concerned with the negativity put out by your campaign, Hillary and how it might cost the Democratic Party the White House in November." and "I am concerned about your high negatives with many American's - you have the highest negative rating out of every candidate running for President - I don't believe the Democratic Party should 'toss the dice', to borrow a term used by your husband, when it comes time to fighting for the White House's."

If Hillary attempts to draw the battle back into her strengths, such as experience, be ready for that as well so you can even chip away at that. If she wants to raise the experience meme, fall back on your comments about Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. "Experience doesn't mean you have good judgment. No one in America was more experienced than Dick Cheney, and he still led us to a war in Iraq, a war which you supported. That's not hope, that's not change, that's more of the same."

It's no longer about the party. The Clinton's have made that decision for you. It's about who wants to win more. You or them. It's about who is willing to sacrifice everything for success. They are willing to sacrifice everything, the party, the presidency, our future - you have to be equally willing. They are counting on you not throwing all your weight into the ring. They are attempting to destroy you, and this is a fight for your political life. By the end of this, if you are not relegated to a footnote in history, they will ensure that is what you become if they take the Presidency. You have to be equally willing to return the favor to them, no matter the cost.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good post and solid advice.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Obama is being Swiftboated just like Kerry was
except Obama is right back at them. I think they thought he would be a push over.

You wonder if Karl Rove is running the Clinton campaign now?
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. He probably is -
I am certain the Clinton's have already worked out a deal with the Bush's. Just like Bill Clinton covered for Poppy once he got into the White House, Hillary will cover for Bush once she enters. You can take that to the bank. Whoever becomes the next President will have the ability to bury Bush, Cheney, Rove and a whole host of other people. You can bet your every dollar that Poppy has already had a long talk with Bill since they are such close friends.

The Bush's need the Clinton's in the White House, so I wouldn't be shocked if Rove is on the phone giving them pointers.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. Kerry Should Come Out Against The Swiftboating By The Clintons
Obama needs a surrogate to muddy his hands. Kerry's experience with cheap lies would get the media's attention to the way the Clintons are conducting themselves and free Obama to inspire a nation.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. that would be solid
MSM with Kerry vs Clintons. I wonder which way Al Gore will go?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. But that's what he is doing.......
but thanks!

But I don't want Obama to win the presidency at "all cost". That would make him like them, and the reason I like him is because he is not like them.

But don't worry, Obama's a smart guy. He didn't get where he is today without being that. I have faith in him.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. How is Obama different? Do tell, because I don't see it...
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 12:49 AM by 1corona4u
his policies are almost the same as the others, with the exception of his health care...

He also got where he is today, because of a stroke of luck in the Illinois senate race. Nothing more. No need to glorify him further. Just makes you look like a swooning groupie.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. A Constitutional Amendment Making Health Care a Right
You let me know when Hillary catches up to that.

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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. But Obama doesn't cover everyone....
you let me know when he catches up to Hillary...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. He doesn't pretend mandates get full coverage
And won't mandate people into homelessness. He doesn't pretend a tax credit means affordable premiums either.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. I think Obama is handling this fine.
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 12:44 AM by AtomicKitten
It's funny if you think about it but We complained when Kerry didn't climb up in the grill of the Swift Boat Liars - and now you are complaining that he's standing up to the onslaught from ClintonCo?

I can't say I agree with your conclusion but I appreciate you taking the time to explain your POV and offer suggestions.
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I'm not complaining at all.
In fact, I don't think he's doing enough. He really has to unload on them hard to do really well on Super Tuesday. He needs a good showing, because even a modest showing will cause the Clinton's to declare victory. He has to win California, for example. Even if Obama walks away with more delegates than Hillary, as he did in Nevada, they will still claim victory if they technically win more states.

What I am saying is that he should not let his negative attacks and counter-attacks against the Clinton's drown out his core message: Hope & Change. He should also add electability to that list. Hope, Change & Electability.

What he needs is to find a way to hit hard, and use the media to his advantage, but at the same time still seem like he is above the fray. If he plunges himself into the mud then he will only begin to cause undecideds to view him in a more negative light. He has to be careful.

It is a balance. His campaign should go on the offensive against the Clinton's. It's no longer even about defense, offense is what is important. His goal should be to completely blow them out of the race through blunt force of attacks, but those attacks should not come directly from his lips.

He should fight to have a counter voice - a supporter - on every station who has a Clinton supporter, just so he can ensure the Clinton's are properly trashed. No mercy and no remorse. It doesn't even have to be true at this point, because the Clinton's have already entered the realm of lies and distortions - he should have his campaign doing the same.

Every time they hit him, his campaign should hit back 20 times harder.
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LeFleur1 Donating Member (973 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. No, He's Different from the Other Two
Today both Hillary and Edwards said that after the nominees are chosen the Democrats would be united.
In other words, they would do their best to unite the party which is what Edwards said on Olberman tonight.
Obama said that he is sure he would get Hillary's people if he were the candidate but he does not know if Hillary will get his people if she is the candidate.

That says to me that he will do nothing to bring the party together (so much for all that unity talk).
He has a vindictive streak and does not like words he has said to come back to haunt him.
If he does not win he will take his CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN signs and go home.

As you can tell, I'm very disappointed in Obama. He just seems to lack the experience for a campaign for the presidency. He whines, he denies, he flounders, he can't answer questions that require details.

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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yep. Spot on.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Hillary and Edwards are aiming for the bluest of the blue.
People voting for them will vote Democrat.

Obama is aiming for purple America. A lot of Red America will never ever vote for Hillary. They are not transferable.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
29. Please provide a (full) quote and a link
Obama said that he is sure he would get Hillary's people if he were the candidate but he does not know if Hillary will get his people if she is the candidate.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. She'll say anything and change nothing
I think that says it all. He's doing fine.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. And he won't do a damn thing if he wins.
Wait and see. Hopefully, it will be the last time this country votes for someone who speaks pretty words, but fails to deliver. I doubt it though. People seem to have selective amnesia when it omes to things like this....
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. He already has
Ethics reform was real, like it or not. Nonproliferation legislation is one of the most important there can be. usaspending.gov is one of the best tools activists will have to find where the money is really going. He got new funding for traditionally black colleges and a new Teacher Residency Program passed to partner new teachers with mentor teachers.

Real policies that matter to real people.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Did he get money for the historic white colleges too?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. They already get plenty of money
It's minority schools that are underfunded, in case you hadn't noticed.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Got any facts to back that up?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. lol, you're kidding, right?
You are really willing to make a total ass of yourself by pretending minority schools aren't underfunded??

You are the person Mark Twain was talking about when he advised some would be wiser to remain silent.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Point is, it's not just minority schools.
You need to consider the reasons they are underfunded. Also, their enrollment, drop out, and graduation rates. Historically, black colleges have much lower graduation and enrollment rates. It's just been recent that enrollment is up. Some blacks are also choosing traditionally white schools now.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. You jump right to the racial issue
I think that says is all.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Yeah, God forbid....
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 08:21 AM by 1corona4u
white people, talk about black isues... :eyes:

How dare us...
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. So Obama should just let them lie about him and say nothing?
:rofl:

Is that you, Mr. Penn?


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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. That is not what I said, at all.
He is in a difficult position. He needs to be offensive against them, but not defensive. Most of his attacks should come from his surrogates, and every time he makes an attack he needs to be able to pivot back onto his main message. (Hope, Change & Electability.)

Campaigns begin to do horribly once their candidate falls off message. Obama cannot afford to jump personally down into the mud, as much as I'd like him too, so he should flood the trenches with his supporters. His goal should be to CRUSH the Clinton's. I am even endorsing out right lying, because at this point all is fair game. They can make shit up if they have too - so long as it is believable and knocks the Clinton's out of the race.

What is important is that Obama SEEMS as if HE PERSONALLY is above the fray. It has to look like Hillary is the one slinging all the mud while he is Mr. Clean.

I do not think he is attacking them hard enough right now. They are playing hardball and he is playing beanbag. Either they are going to destroy him or he is going to destroy them, but in the end only one candidate is walking away from this race.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. So what you are saying is you wanna see how well obama can
fight? is that it? well thus far he has proven to be inept, and you cannot win the fight when you have someone calling bill clinton a bigot and racist and liken him to lee atwater who was a racist and a bigot....That goes way over the top....and all this was for the purpose of showing the nation obama atsome of his not too good a moments and with bill clinton getting into obama's psyche it is telling on obama.....and while all this is going on HRC is in calif. getting the endorsement of the united farmworkers union and then appearing in arizona with 10,000 in attendance and then coming back to get the endorsement of the gov of pa, and then on the n.j and where is obama.....he is looking over in shoulder in sc for bill...:hide: pssst obama I'm over here......pssst, obama, I'm over there:hide:
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. No, I am not saying that.
However, I do agree that he is wasting his time in South Carolina. His wife should be out there, like Bill, but his ass should be in the Super Tuesday states like Hillary. I don't care how many asses Bill Clinton kisses he isn't going to close that gap in SC. He is just trying to make sure they don't come in third place behind Edward's.

Obama needs to fight just as dirty, no - even more dirty than the Clinton's. This is a race to see who wants it the most. It's about winning. The Clinton's have decided the party doesn't matter, the White House doesn't matter, as long as Hillary wins - that is all that matters. Obama has to realize that and adopt the same attitude. Every time Bill pulls out the proverbial knife and stabs him, he needs to pull out the proverbial gun and fire back - twenty times as hard.

His campaign's goal should be to completely and totally destroy the Clinton's - using whatever tactics necessary - and knocking them out of the running on Super Tuesday, if not out of politics entirely.

And he has to do all of that while at the same time seeming like he had nothing to do with it. He has to look like Mister Clean, and stay on message. Higher a fucking hooker with a private investigator hiding in the bushes with a video camera, then send her to Bill if he has too.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. I agree with your OP - it was great
But I also think it's where Obama is going. South Carolina was the place for him to do what he's doing. It's rougher politics than Nevada ever dreamed of. It's not the well-mannered Iowa or the reserved New Hampshire. It's kick ass and take names country. This is where a guy like Bill Clinton meets a guy like Dick Harpootlian and only one of them comes out on his feet. Still, Obama's hope and change campaign met the road most traveled by the Clintons in Nevada, after the relatively genteel terrain of the Midwest and New England. What was he supposed to do after that filth? Precisely what he is doing. He had to show he's got the balls to take on the Clintons on their level, way down there, he personally. He's showing he will fight for the nomination with everything it takes. He could only do that himself. There's something else going on, particularly in South Carolina, which is the old guard Democratic establishment is being challenged to their great surprise by up and coming party pols, which is an element of the generational change theme, but different. They were so sure they could bring SC home for Clinton, because they have been in power so long. Well, not so fast on that one. So it's a brutal political environment at the moment, in what is even in normal circumstances a tough primary state, and brute politics is what it takes to function there; this is added on Obama's achieving a necessary recovery from Nevada. Once SC is behind us, I think we will see more of what you are calling for, a focus on the message by Obama and the knuckle busting by the surrogates. The only disagreement I have with your points is that Obama is doing what it takes right now, at this point in the campaign, in the best place he could do it, and not making a mistake.
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wildflowergardener Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. No
"Obama needs to fight just as dirty, no - even more dirty than the Clinton's. This is a race to see who wants it the most. It's about winning."

I completely disagree. That he will not stoop to Hillary's level is why I support him. It is also why I'll have a difficult time supporting Hillary if she should win the race - no matter how much Obama may urge us to support her. I don't like dishonest people. I say defend himself as much as he needs to, but in no way stoop to lie like they are doing in order to hurt him in the race. That is what will hurt her with Obama supporters if she does manage to win - not anything Obama says to them about supporting her, in my opinion. If I wanted someone like that I'd have voted for Bush. We don't need another person like that in the White House. I like that Obama is different than that.

Meg
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protect our future Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
30. How to fight the two-headed monster: Obama throws the rulebook out the window and
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 08:47 AM by protect our future
names his running mate. Suddenly it's two against two instead of two on one.

Maybe John Kerry or someone else who can debate and is ready to lead the country on the day they take office.

Novel idea, I know, but it just might work.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
33. Heavy, but strikingly true...
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 04:53 PM by cooolandrew
adio caller " In Iowa before the negativity the race went as it should with Edwards and Obama ahead. I said then that the clintons would go negative and if it had been Edwards in front he'd of got the same treatment"

Win at all costs is too destructive America must get away from that and lose with dignity as in this life we can't all win.


Love creates, hste destroys show the love Barack.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. "Sacrifice everything?" "You have to be willing?"
That's just what the corporate media/Republicans would like. A no holds barred "throw the country to the dogs" approach from our candidates. Ratings galore and at least four more!

I disagree that the Clintons are putting their ambitions before the country, and if Obama were to demonstrate that he is "willing" to do so, he'd be "history."
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