Fact Check: Obama's 'present' votes

[ProSense]

Fact Check: Obama's 'present' votes

Thu Jan 24

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Barack Obama's rivals in the Democratic presidential race contend he sometimes voted "present" on tough issues rather than take a firm stand.

"In the Illinois state Senate, Senator Obama voted 130 times 'present.' That's not yes, that's not no. That's maybe," Hillary Rodham Clinton said in a debate Monday.

Obama responds that Clinton is cherry-picking a handful of votes from a long legislative career and then distorting them.

THE SPIN: Obama portrays himself as someone voters can trust to tell the truth and skip the usual political games. Clinton and John Edwards are using his "present" votes to offer a different picture — one of Obama ducking tough issues or refusing to support common-sense legislation.

THE FACTS: Obama acknowledges that over nearly eight years in the Illinois Senate, he voted "present" 129 times. That was out of roughly 4,000 votes he cast, so those "presents" amounted to about one of every 31 votes in his legislative career.

Illinois legislators often vote "present" and for a wide variety of reasons. Sometimes blocs of lawmakers do it as a protest in some dispute over rules and procedures. Obama was often joined in his "present" votes by 10 or 20 other senators.

In other cases, lawmakers do it to signal objections to the details of a measure that they support in principle. They also use "present" votes as strategic moves to defeat legislation or, of course, simply to avoid taking a firm position.

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[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. "present" votes in Illinois are a standard tool, used by

many on both sides of the aisle.

It is the height of ignorance by the Clinton campaign to rush into a critique, like a bill in a China shop and bitch about something they do not understand.

[Windy]

2. Yes it is. Unfortunately, you won't see any responses from HRC supporters to this.

the facts get in the way of their spin.

Sad that we face this in a democratic primary.

[izzybeans]

3. They understand it. It's not very hard to. They are revealing themselves in their

bushlike disdain for their own supporters. They believe they are really that stupid.

[patrice]

4. I thought John Edwards's question about this in the last debate was helpful.

Does anyone REALLY think a trial lawyer would ask a question like that without some idea of what the answer was going to be?

Q. What kind of attorney doesn't do enough oppo research to know how the Illinois Senate uses the "present vote" to allow senators to express their technical objections to a bill without being forced to either support it or kill it (just as Obama said)? A. A poor attorney - and - that - ain't - John Edwards.

He asked that question to let Obama respond to the Clinton Machine while at the same time counting coup on him (and I do mean counting coup in the same manner as some Native American tribes used to do - a kind of pro forma striking, just to show that you can and that you can do more if you wish). It was a polite way to use what was going on between the other two, not only to his own advantage and without getting dirty doing it, but also to Obama's advantage against HC, but I don't expect to see any Obama supporters recognizing what JE did for him with that question.

P.S. I'm married to an attorney. Questions are never just questions.

[izzybeans]

7. You are correct. Edwards is clearly sick of the lies and smears.

He put that lie on the tee for Obama to smack away.

[patrice]

9. That's exactly what he did.

Even my Libertarian attorney husband, who does not like Edwards, tipped his hat to that one.

Solidarity, izzybeans!

[izzybeans]

12. I do hope that whatever the outcome that those two are standing together

during the party convention.

Solidarity indeed.

[patrice]

15. That WOULD be a Change. nt

[robbedvoter]

11. Nice spin - it's when I woke up and listened - I was kinda dozing up to that point

Edwards was the one who effectively exposed Obama on the 130 equivocations. You may chose to direct your frustrations to whatever target you prefer, but to us listening, it's how it went.

[izzybeans]

13. dupe

[izzybeans]

14. So you admit to not really watching that debate then.

Interesting.

Do you live in Illinois? Do you understand what a present vote is there? Do you realize he was asked to do so by president of Illinois Planned Parenthood and that he voted present some 1/1000th of a percent of the time?

I'm not frustrated. Just realistic. No spin needed.

Edwards and Obama laid that lie out on the table for all to see.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

19. are you dense?

NO offense, but the "present" vote is a well used tool in our legislature's system. It is used to further negotiations on the floor. It is NOT like the US congress or senate, where all drafting is done behind the stage and often in secret.

If you haven't a clue of how our legislature operates, I can't blame you - it is unusual. But, when people start casting stones like Hillary, when she is wrong on the facts, wrong on the impact, and wrong on how it operates here, excuse me, that is too clintonian for my tastes.

[robbedvoter]

10. Helpful - but to whom? Obama or Edwards? Edwards helped himself by embarrassing

Obama there. He cross-examined him, and Obama babbled.
The intention clearly wasn't to help him. If it were, then he failed miserably.
But I think he went for blood - and drew it.

[patrice]

16. I think it caught Obama a little outside of his game, so his response could have been

more constructive (as in framing-wise).

But that definitely was not blood.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

18. well put. And accurate.

the thing is, the Clintons may know the truth, but they will never allow it to get in the way of a good knife in the back when they choose to apply it.

[MethuenProgressive]

5. Barack "I was not aware that I had voted no" Obama - there's a reason the Present button is Yellow

[KennedyGuy]

6. yeah that and the "I pushed the wrong button" excuse

another PRO fessional editing job..
another Non-sene post..

[robbedvoter]

8. Ah, it was only 129! How rude of Hillary to say "130". A regular karl Rove, she!

"
THE FACTS: Obama acknowledges that over nearly eight years in the Illinois Senate, he voted "present" 129 times."

[ProSense]

17. Kick! n/t