Hillary winning popular vote by a landslide

[pathansen]

This followed Keith O. last night.
Hillary got more votes from Florida than all the other states combined. Even though this did not give her any delegates, it indicates that she is highly popular with the voters in Florida so it should count as something. This happened inspite of bad publicity Bill Clinton received and in spite of Kennedy endorsement.
As we know, a huge amount of coverage was given to South Carolina though there were very few votes there compared with Florida.
The guy on MSNBC felt the media was giving Hillary unfair coverage since hardly nothing was said about this. The popular vote meant something for Gore.
Then he said that Clinton was still significantly ahead in the polls yet media makes it sound like they are about even.
Anyone else see this?

[lisa58]

1. No...

...I think the media is giving Clinton the edge for super tuesday and everyone I watch talks about how huge the democratic turnout is over the republicans.

[peacebird]

2. msnbc couldn't be bothered to cover Edwards til he pulled out - even when he beat HRC

why pay attention to them now? the only TRUTH in their concern is that media IS "giving Hillary unfair coverage" and they have been since the inevitability coronation parade began.

[SaveAmerica]

25. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this, I told my family to watch the news

that after so many months of rarely mentioning Edwards even when he came in second in one state and getting 14% and 15% compared to Guiliani's 2% and 3%, they would finally give Edwards first billing. Sure enough they covered his announcement before they did Guiliani's. Thanks a bunch, jerks.

[mckeown1128]

3. No one got to campaign in Florida to get their policies out.

Hillary had an independent group doing moderate campaigning and Obama had a few national ad buys but their was not serious effort in campaigning. Who knows what the result would have been if the campaigns would have gotten in there.

[bullimiami]

6. there is no lack of coverage for those who care to look.

i think primary voters tend to be a pretty well informed bunch.
despite the hand wringing to the contrary I think this is a fair indicator of where Florida stands right now.

i voted for kuci early absentee. i dont regret it. he was my first choice and the others hadnt won my vote.
if he was off the ballot i probably would have voted obama.

[iamjoy]

7. You Nailed It

The candidates did not campaign here (in Florida) for our rogue primary.

Unlike in 2004, where there was one clear front runner, there was none this time. Since the candidates were not campaigning in Florida (a few private fundraisers and a national cable ad buy don't count), support was pretty much frozen where it was six months ago. At that time, Clinton was the most well known candidate.

Given the size of our state and the expense in campaigning here, it is hard to say how much of a different it would have been if we'd had a legit primary. I still think Clinton would have won, just not by as much.

[rodeodance]

39. oh but OBAMA got his ads out all over Fl.

[pathansen]

47. What about all the debates?

[Catch22Dem]

4. It indicates what?

I guess it could be an indication of how states where no campaigning was done might play out. I don't think FL indicates much at all though.

[pathansen]

48. Florida will count in the general election.

Hillary appears to be popular there, compared with other candidates.

[liberal N proud]

5. If only she would clearly tell us what she stands for

I could easily move my support back to her if only she would say where she stands on these things and more:

The corporate politics (lobbies)
Taking care of the middle class and the poor
Jobs for Americans
Single payer health care - Universal Coverage.

She just never tells us what we need to hear, that she will work for US not EXXON-Mobil and Merck

[mckeown1128]

8. I will take a shot at where she stands on those positions...

The corporate politics (lobbies) = "They're GREAT!!! Excellent for fundraising."

Taking care of the middle class and the poor. Jobs for Americans "Free trade agreements make the corporations strong...they will hire more amer...people."

Single payer health care - Universal Coverage. "We'll hold meetings with the insurance companies in this dark room in the basement...well see what we can do."

[UALRBSofL]

11. If you go to Hillary's web site it's very specific

And the main issue for me is her Health Care plan. She will "Mandate" health care for everyone. Obama's plan is not mandated. To some people it sounds like universal health care like they have in Canada and many people don't like that idea but I do. But, most of the issues they stand for are very similar.

[liberal N proud]

18. Unfortunately Mandate does not mean provide

It is mandated that I purchase automobile insurance before I can drive. If they mandate everyone purchase health care it does nothing for those who can't afford it. Which is why they don't have it now.

We need to provide health care for all. Will she mandate that?

[rodeodance]

40. oh you are safer with obama--just TRUST him he said the big VISION

[Perky]

9. No it is should not... Come on Keith

[mwb970]

12. But pran was fleebot... Shib five Hannity! /nt

[rodeodance]

41. Keith is the only objective journalist and you WHIN!!--figures

[kevsand]

10. Most of Hillary's Florida votes were cast in December.

The media coverage was all quite clear about this. Hillary's lead in Florida came from early voters who participated well before the other primaries and the events of the past month. Florida voters who participated in January and on election day went for Obama. So no, the overall totals do not necessarily reflect the way voters in Florida or nationwide feel now.

[leftynyc]

13. I'd like a link for that please

MOST (more than half) came in December?

[kevsand]

26. I don't have a link right now.

Maybe later today, if I get the time. I'm quoting MSNBC exit polls as announced on Tuesday evening. To paraphrase, the Florida voters who cast their vote in the final month broke for Obama, while those who cast their votes before that favored Hillary.

Mathematically, in order for Hillary to win overall, that means that it was the votes from December that gave her the win. I don't know if her December votes were a mathematical majority of her total votes, and my apologies if that's what I implied.

However, it would have to be a very big chunk to overcome Obama's majority on election day. It would probably have been more accurate for me to say that all of her margin of victory came from December. If I remember correctly, they were reporting over 400,000 early voters total.

As a result, it is clear from the exit polls that the final totals are not necessarily an accurate reflection of the feelings of Florida voters on election day.

[kevsand]

30. Okay, here's a relevant link, and it turns out that I was partly wrong

and partly right: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/29/florida-results-show-late_n_83957.html

Obama had clear majorities among everyone who decided in the final month, while Hillary had a razor thin margin among those who decided on election day. Her biggest margin was among those who decided before the final month and early voters.

Again, my apologies for the way I originally stated the case. (That's what I get for quoting from memory an exit poll stat that was probably too vaguely worded when they reported it.)

Still, I think it's pretty clear that the dynamic was very fluid, and (to borrow a sports metaphor) that the game was much closer than the final score.

[leftynyc]

32. Thanks for the info

It just didn't sound right to me. And this game is going to be very close (much the the superbowl I'm hoping my beloved giants are going to win on Sunday).

This is why I'm pretty much ignoring polls - the situation is very fluid (great adjective) and with early voting in many states, we really don't know how it's going to go.

[Windy]

14. Unfortunately, other states have early voting too.

I believe California for one.

As Edwards is out, I want it to be Obama.
However, the debate tonight is up against the season opener of Lost. Even if obama nails it, most of america wont' see it live and will have to depend on the media regurgitation which will, undoubtedly be heavily weighted to Hillary.

[Meshuga]

15. It would be amazing if Obama does well in CA

Because so many people probably voted for Clinton. But if he is able to steal a substantial number of delegates he will have a tough hill to climb but he will be able to make it.

[foxer]

16. Edwards out won't help viewership either

[Windy]

19. Lost season opener kills viewership of the debate.

[juajen]

24. Facts state otherwise.

Hillary's lead remained almost exactly the same throughout. That means that her vote on the primary date had the same lead as the absentee voting. Ya'll keep repeating this meme, though it has been challenged and proven wrong.

The OP is talking about Dan Abrams, I believe. He had a very good show that appeared to me to be fair to both Obama and Clinton. It is very true that the MSM is really promoting obama. At times they have promoted Hillary; so, his (Abrams) conclusion was that the media wants a horse race and will do anything to get it, including slanting the polls and being loose with the facts.

It's everybody's choice as to whether we let them choose our candidate for us. Please remember, the facts are the facts. Some news programs are more trustworthy than others. Right now, I believe Dan Abrams is more trustworthy than any of the others. He is actually calling reporters to task for their bias and inaccuracies.

It was interesting when our girl, Rachael Maddow, was showing Dan how the race was going with her hands. She had Hillary and Obama almost neck and neck, when the polls show otherwise. He corrected her and stated that that was the problem, msm was acting as if they were neck and neck, when Hillary was still quite a bit ahead, but stated that Obama definitely has forward momentum right now and could even catch up with Hillary, but that she still had a strong lead, which most of the MSM is ignoring in order to promote their horse race.

I hope everyone pays attention and refuses to allow the media to entice or influence them unduly. This is an important election. As a matter of fact, Dan Abrams called it the most important election in his lifetime. I agree with that assessment. We have a lot of crap that could sink this country and that needs an expert hand, which is why I trust our first real female contender. You should, too.

[kevsand]

28. No, I didn't see Dan Abrams.

I'm talking about the lady with the exit polls up in the balcony on Tuesday night while Keith was at the main desk.

[rinsd]

42. I call bullshit since you can't do early voting until 15 days before the election in FL

Early voting is standardized throughout the State of Florida. Early voting is defined as "casting a ballot prior to election day at a location designated by the supervisor of elections and depositing the voted ballot in the tabulation system.”

All supervisors will begin conducting early voting in their main and branch offices 15 days before the election. In addition, supervisors may designate any city hall or public library as an early voting site; however, if so designated, these sites must be geographically located so that all voters in the county will have an equal opportunity to cast a vote. Early voting will end on the 2nd day before the election.

Early voting will be conducted 8 hours per day on each weekday during the early voting period and will be provided for 8 hours in the aggregate for each weekend during the period. Each supervisor of elections will designate the early voting sites 30 days prior to an election. For additional information on dates, times, and locations, please contact the office of your county supervisor of elections.

Voters who want to vote early should remember to bring a photo and signature identification with them.

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/earlyvoting.shtml

Absentee ballots are mailed 30 days prior to the election.

"Ballots are mailed approximately 30 days prior to an election to those voters who have requests on file"

http://www.elections.alachua.fl.us/voter%2Dregistration/Absentee%5FVoting/#Pickingupanabsenteeballot

[kevsand]

46. Thanks for the citations.

I think we got it sorted out already (see post #30 above). I'm guessing that the description of the exit poll results that I saw on MSNBC was a little vaguely worded, but it's also possible that I simply misinterpreted it.

One of the links cited in the link I provide above claims that voters could actually begin voting absentee on Dec. 25. (Perhaps this would have been voting in person?) I think I also saw somewhere that voters could request absentee ballots in advance, starting on Dec. 12, so that the ballots could be mailed out to them later.

In any event, thanks again for the info.

[pathansen]

49. That's not what I understood was said last night.

[kevsand]

51. We already sorted all this out this morning.

See my post #30 above. I either misunderstood what MSNBC was saying Tuesday night, or they didn't express it very well, or both.

[goldcanyonaz]

17. She could end up being the Gore of this primary. More votes, less delegates.

[robbedvoter]

21. Gore won Florida (probably sone southern states too)- had more delegates too

Besides, we'll see how the rest of the primary goes

[robbedvoter]

20. Kerry got 580,000 in 2004 primary, she got 860,000 - in spite the controversy

and the no campaigning

[mod mom]

22. She's too divisive for the right and the antiwar left. Why should we trust pollsters

who are repeated way off? If you were wanted to influence an election, wouldn't you rig polls in attempt to sway the vote?

[mod mom]

23. On Trusting Pollsters (example w scumbag Clinton Strategist Mark Penn):

Exit Polls to Protect the Vote

By MARTIN PLISSNER

Published: October 17, 2004


-snip

In August, exit polling figured in a bitter fight in Venezuela over what amounted to competing landslides for and against a recall of the sitting president, Hugo Chávez, a socialist with ties to Fidel Castro.

The recall's proponents sponsored an exit poll, supervised by Penn, Schoen & Berland, an American firm whose clients have included Bill Clinton and Michael Bloomberg. Sometime before the polls closed on Aug. 15, Penn, Schoen reported that 59 percent of Venezuelan voters had said yes to throwing the president out of office.

A few hours later, the official count, by an election commission under Mr. Chávez's control, declared him the winner, with 58 percent of the total. Both the Organization of American States and the Carter Center, the Atlanta-based human rights organization founded by Jimmy Carter, said that their observers had seen no irregularities at the polls. In response to the exit poll, they called for a random audit at selected polling stations and again found nothing suspicious.

Mr. Schoen acknowledged in an interview that the poll's field workers were recruited by a group that helped organize the recall, but he said the volunteers had been trained to conduct the poll professionally, and that his firm would have no reason to put its reputation at risk by participating in a fraudulent poll. The recall's supporters continue to believe the election was stolen.

-snip

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/weekinreview/17plis.html?_r=1&fta=y&oref=slogin

[Occam Bandage]

27. And Obama winning popular vote by landslide in states he was allowed to campaign.

[robbedvoter]

31. Landslide only in one state - and it was about 300,000+ votes, not 860,000

Voters DO matter.
The diss on Florida was heard across the country.

[Occam Bandage]

38. Like I said, add the votes and he's winning the popular vote in states in which they campaign.

[Beacool]

29. I think that both Edwards and Hillary have been short shifted by the media.

Edwards because he was barely covered and Hillary because the media appears to despise her and has given her tons of coverage, but most of it negative. The media darling this election year is definitely Obama, he's praised so much that some may think that the man walks on water (Tweety's love affair with Obama comes to mind).

I don't understand why the MSM treated Obama's victory in Iowa as such a transcendental matter when Jesse Jackson in the 80s managed to win 11 primaries before dropping out. It was impressive an deserved praise, but not the paroxysm of adulation that he received from the media!!

On the other hand, we have NEVER had a woman win a primary in the history of this country until Hillary did so in NH. The woman has won 1 caucus and 3 primaries (delegates or no delegates) and the MSM always spins it negatively. For example: she won in NH because she cried, in FL because no one campaigned, etc. The fact that more people voted for Hillary in FL than they did for McCain appears to scape their notice.

Frankly, I'm disgusted with all of them!!!!

[FrenchieCat]

33. Why do you use Jesse Jackson as an example?

What does his run in 1988 have to do with 2008. Please tell me?

OBama came in first in the first vote.....and bested Ms. Billary by 8 points. That's what gave Kerry his momentum back in 2004, and I'm not sure why Obama was supposed to be treated any differently from that. Is Obama a 2nd class citizen?

[Beacool]

34. I used Jesse as an example because he was the first African American

to become a viable presidential candidate and someone who actually was able to win several primaries. What's wrong with mentioning Jesse? I've always liked Jesse, he got in people's face and fought the good cause. Unlike Obama, the "safe" candidate.

[FrenchieCat]

44. But why are you judging Obama based on the color of his skin?

Why do you compare him to Jesse Jackson?

I don't compare Bill Clinton to anyone else.

When you discuss Tiger Woods' golf handicap, do you find another Black golf player to compare it to?

When you discuss Halle Berry's acting performance, do you only then attempt to find other Black actresses to compare her to?

When we compare Hillary....should we only compare her run to women who have come before her......like Pat Shroeder and no one else? :shrug:

[Eurobabe]

35. who has been smoking crack?

[rodeodance]

36. YES, the Poplular vote was important at one time --this board is aflame

with getting every vote to count. but so so horrible when it came to Hillary winning. Double standard for so many on this board (and very mean-spirited about it also)



The guy on MSNBC felt the media was giving Hillary unfair coverage since hardly nothing was said about this. The popular vote meant something for Gore.
Then he said that Clinton was still significantly ahead in the polls yet media makes it sound like they are about even.
Anyone else see this?

[rodeodance]

37. **also, I read that Dan Abrams also notes how coverage of HIL is poor or NEGITIVE.

[Barack_America]

43. Yea for Florida having a large population.

Obama still won by a larger spread in South Carolina, which just happened to have a smaller population.

[AtomicKitten]

45. Nobody campaigned so she "won" on name recognition alone. Reward? Zero delegates, as it should be.

[pathansen]

50. So all those debates don't count anything? Florida will count in General Election

and Hillary got more votes than other candidates by far even with all the bad publicity.