Why does Obama hate health care reform?

[OzarkDem]

If he was serious about enacting a good system, he would have proposed one. He didn't. He proposed a weak plan that burdens hospitals and the insured with having to pay for those who aren't insured. No thanks Obama supporters, I don't feel like paying for your health care costs simply because you choose to stay uninsured until you get sick or injured.


To add insult to injury, his campaign and supporters choose to overcome the problems with his plan by lying about Clinton's health care plan. If he really cared about health care reform, he would match Clinton's plan or come up with an even better one. He has chose not to do so.

So one can only surmise he is willing to screw up chances for meaningful reform for the sake of his own ego. That's not the kind of person we need in the WH.

If you want to win on the health care issue, Obama, you need to come up with a better plan.

[Avalux]

1. Your subject line negates anything substantial said in your post. n/t

[boston bean]

2. wrong spot

[OzarkDem]

4. Then tell me why

he's torpedoing any chance for getting good reform.

Tell me why he hasn't offered a better plan.

[stimbox]

10. This is why.

[jody]

13. Obama promised "A fiscally sound and efficient program to deliver universal health care to

all Americans and a high quality education, from pre-school to college, for all of America's children."

That's his promise in 2003 and five years later he has no more details than when he made the promise.

That's because talk is cheap until someone gives you the responsibility of making good.

[OzarkDem]

17. Its one of the most important issues facing the US

If we don't do something soon, something that works for the long term, our health care system will collapse.

[Barack_America]

19. The problem with details is that you have to look for them.

Don't insist they aren't there when you haven't done your homework.

His plan has plenty of details, you just never bothered to read it.

[jody]

23. I've read every authentic Obama document on the Internet re his health care proposal. Have you? n/t

[Barack_America]

25. Yep. Funny that you've read pages and pages of text...

And yet, conclude that there is nothing there.

[jody]

28. Have you read all Obama's papers supporting his health care proposal? No, that's what I thought. n/t

[OzarkDem]

38. Yes I have

Care to argue on the merits of his plan instead of attacking?

[Barack_America]

48. For the second time, yes. n/t

[jody]

62. Perhaps you lost count because this is your first "yes" to my post #28. I see no value to me in

debating you about Obama's health care plan.

Have a good day. :hi:

[Barack_America]

64. You might want to check out posts #23 and #25.

:hi:

[ClericJohnPreston]

54. Funnier that you read pages

and still can't define the plan.

Gee, I wonder why?

Got links? :rofl:

[OzarkDem]

26. Why don't you read them both, I have

http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=11&c=16

[Bluerthanblue]

22. Hillary's plan isn't any better than his- it is worse in that

it will require people to purchase CORPORATE insurance-

Obama's plan- which is not the plan I would like- we need SINGLE PAYER insurance- at least doesn't force people to buy from insurance companies.

You don't seem to be able to wrap your mind around the facts about this.

:shrug:

peace~

[OzarkDem]

27. Clinton's health plan offers a choice between govt and private plans

Wrong again

[rodeodance]

47. there you go with those pesty facts again--it really hits up against their empty suit

"arguments"

smile smile.

[Bluerthanblue]

52. no- YOU are just continuting to parrot vague promises- I'm

talking about reality.

I don't have any money for health insurance- No insurance company will insure me. The choice I will be left with- the choice that many low-income people will be faced with, is to become Medicaid eligible- (no assets over $2,500) or be fined.

How is that choice?


Have you ever been reduced to having to apply for government help????

I'm thinking not- but please surprise me.

peace~

[rodeodance]

46. wrap your mind around this FACT--Somebody someday HAS to pay for those

who are selfish--those who think they need no health insur. plan.


Are they financially well off should a terrible health crisis them or their family members? maybe billionaires are.

[Bluerthanblue]

55. feel free to lecture me all you like about

selfish people.

I am uninsured- I have been for the last several years. No health insurance company will give me a policy- those who might be willing to write one would charge over 1000 per month- with a 9mo. pre-existing condition no care waver- I have equity in my home that keeps me from being eligible for govenment assistance without having the state put a lien on our home.

I'm all my kids have left. I'm going to leave them parentless- I won't leave them homeless as well.

I am selfish that way.

and stubborn as shit.

And sadly, I've met far too many people in similar situations especially lately.

peace~

[rodeodance]

57. sorry, I was referring people who simply will not purchace health insur. no

matter if from employ or gov.

sorry that i did not make that clear.

I too am in a situation similar to yours-.

But, i will go thru the process of applying for gov assistance for the kids no matter how demeaning I find that to be. We do have a version of Kid care in our state for kids but none for the adult/parent. So if parent gets sick/accident--. that is what I fear.

Health ins. is a deep issue with me. I have read their plans and have chose Clintons.
Best to you and your family

[Bluerthanblue]

63. I wish

you the best as well.

My youngest is still on SCHIP- I'm not proud- just determined that my kids not be made to suffer anymore than they already have because of their parents poor decisions, and bad luck.

I wish DK's proposals had really had a chance. I don't see Hillary's as any improvement over Obama's as I don't have much faith in the promise that the government isn't going to make me sign over my intrest in our house in exchange for health care. I pay as I go now- and will quit going when I can't keep making payments.

It's pretty sad that in the greatest nation in the world, this is still an issue.

Sorry to snap at you- I'm more than frustrated at how little is really understood about what being in this situation feels. That doesn't excuse my rudeness.

Maybe we'll both be pleasantly surprised- eh?

peace~

:hi:

[Mojambo]

3. Because it slept with his wife! n/t

[boston bean]

5. Thank you, you verbalized my thoughts exactly, K & R for you!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. Unless the uninsured pay for themselves, someone has to pay for them.

Now who might that be?

[paulk]

11. taxpayers?

Can you explain why Obama's healthcare plan is better than Hillary's?

Seriously, I would like to hear an explanation. I think the OP is close to the mark on this.

All I see from a lot of the Obama supporters are attacks on Hillary (and Edwards) plans without any explanation of why Obama's plan is superior.

[kurth]

7. "Look, this is hard work"

[OzarkDem]

8. It makes you wonder

is this the way he plans to deal with the Iraq War, too?

[populistdriven]

9. Amazing how you back up your claims with facts & links

[OzarkDem]

15. Here you go

I've already posted this link about 20 times today, but here it is again.

A side by side comparison of Clinton & Obama plans from the Kaiser Family Foundation...

http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=11&c=16

[jody]

12. Obama deals with policy, not technical details. I’ve heard that Mark Twain addressed congress and

said:

"I understand you all are concerned about the German U-boat threat in the North Atlantic.

Well I have the solution, just heat the North Atlantic until it’s boiling and the U-boats will come to the surface and you can sink them with your destroyers."

After congress had finally quieted somewhat from laughter, he continued:

"Now some of you will ask me how to heat the North Atlantic to 212 degrees but I just establish policy, you take care of the technical details."

Perhaps Obama and Mark Twain have a lot in common, their skill with fiction.

[OzarkDem]

14. True

Though one must assume he knows enough about policy details to falsely criticize Clinton's plan.

Then again, if he's this sloppy on policy in the campaign it doesn't bode well for the WH. I guess he'll let his staffers take care of these litle details.

[Occam Bandage]

16. Why do you hate America?

[OzarkDem]

18. Like Clinton, I'd like to see all Americans with coverage

as opposed to leaving 15 million of them uninsured and calling it a "personal choice".

[Barack_America]

20. Absolutely, in the choice between rent, food and healthcare...

Healthcare is always #1.

People must be forced to understand this.

[OzarkDem]

29. You keep lying about this

Should we assume you also oppose health care reform?

[Barack_America]

34. Nope. I'm not lying and I am for health care reform.

There are many families who are struggling to make ends meet and yet still make enough money that they are not eligible for Medicaid. Yet, they still pay little in income taxes. I don't see how Hillary's income tax cut is going to give them enough money to pay for their healthcare. But, they're required to have it, so something else is going to have to go.

[OzarkDem]

35. Clinton's plan expands Medicaid

so families who can't afford any kind of health insurance premium get free health care. Ok?

[Bluerthanblue]

56. PLEASE educate yourself about medicaid- you are not

speaking truth.

peace~

[Barack_America]

61. Okay. Tell me how we're going to afford it...

...and what the income cut off will be.

A mandate is an absolute.

So, in return, I'm asking for absolutes...numbers.

[Alexander]

21. Why do you hate America?

See, I can spam the boards with talking points, too. :eyes:

[Mass]

24. Only difference between the two is that Clinton takes a mandate as starting position knowing she

will not reach it, and that Obama thinks that he can reach what he is proposing.

We can discuss about who is more realistic, but it would mean that we start by being straightforward.

And, BTW, as somebody who has seen mandates used in MA, I believe it is NOT the solution. It works for the poorest and for those who are rich enough to pay an insurance whatever the price is. It screws those in the middle with the only policies worth having being out of price and the only affordable policies covering very little.

[BootinUp]

30. The only way to ever get control of Healthcare costs

is to have everyone in the system.

A lot of people in the middle class are getting fucked right now on healthcare. Some people are winners on healthcare now and others are losers and the only difference is what company you work for small, or large, successful or not.

If there are Federal government plans as a choice and Federal Regs on the insurance industry and everyone is in, the costs will come down on average for the middle class. And it will be affordable. And the new Regs will guarantee minimum levels of coverage.

[sandnsea]

31. Tax credits vs monthly subsidies

is a huge difference as well. There are actually several differences in the two plans, Obama's Health Insurance Exchange that actually regulates insurance benefits is another. I don't know why his campaign decided to say the plans were basically the same. Her tax credits though, are no replacement for income based subsidized premiums.

[OzarkDem]

33. Subsidies to private insurance w/ no government plan option

is corporate welfare. Just imagine how quickly those private insurance premiums will skyrocket once they start getting government subsidies.

[sandnsea]

40. "new national helath plan"

Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features:

Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.

Comprehensive benefits. The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.
Affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles.

Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.

Simplified paperwork and reined in health costs.

Easy enrollment. The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage.

Portability and choice. Participants in the new public plan and the National Health Insurance Exchange (see below) will be able to move from job to job without changing or jeopardizing their health care coverage.

Quality and efficiency. Participating insurance companies in the new public program will be required to report data to ensure that standards for quality, health information technology and administration are being met.

[OzarkDem]

42. Why doesn't he offer a govt insurance plan option?

Why is private insurance the only option consumers and businesses are allowed under Obama's plan?

[sandnsea]

44. That IS the public plan

Read it.

[OzarkDem]

45. He doesn't have a govt funded choice option

He only talks of expanding Medicaid, something Clinton also proposes.

He doesn't give middle income people a chance to purchase a government based health insurance plan like Medicare.

If he's giving that choice in his plan, you'll have to provide a link.

[sandnsea]

49. wow

"buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress."

That's the public plan.

"The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care."

[OzarkDem]

43. Why doesn't he offer a govt insurance plan option?

Why is private insurance the only option consumers and businesses are allowed under Obama's plan?

[OzarkDem]

32. Wrong again

Because Clinton's plan offers a choice between government and private insurance and covers everyone, hers is the most likely to lower costs of health insurance and stay out of the red for the long term.

Obama's, without the choice between government and private plans, subsidies to insurance companies and the exclusion of 15 million people, is nothing more than short term corporate welfare. It will collapse from high costs, much the same as Mitt's Massachusetts plan is doing.

[Mass]

36. I have no time to repeal your numerous misconceptions, but read the kaiser links and you could be

able to spot a few. Of course, it would take some straitforwardness to be able to discuss them. And MA plan is bad for many people, including those people who did not get subsidies because their companies were providing plans even if they could not afford them. (BTW, it is not Mitt's plan. Mitt came there forced.).

[backwoodsbob]

37. why do we need headlines like that?

I'm about to give up on anything getting done this cycle.We dont need the repukes to destroy us...we do fine all by ourselves

[Barack_America]

39. By how much is Hillary going to lower premiums for the average American family?

How is Hillary going to address wasteful spending by hospitals?

With the economy tanking and, thus, less money coming into the IRS from the wealthiest Americans, will there be enough to subsidize the mandatory healthcare for poor Americans? And, if not, will they be exempted from healthcare, or forced to push aside other bills?

I want numbers. How much poor people are going to be mandated to pay for insurance and how much of this this will be subsidized. If she's going to talk mandate, she's going to have to show me that it's economically feasible.

[OzarkDem]

41. By making govt and private insurance plans compete

the cost of insurance premiums will go down.

"Campaign estimates cost to be $110 billion a year when fully phased in. $35 billion to be financed by savings from quality and modernization initiatives. Additional $21 billion in savings from Medicare private plans, recapturing Medicare and Medicaid payments to hospitals for the uninsured, and constraining prescription drug costs. Also $54 billion in revenue from limiting the tax exclusion for employer-paid health insurance and discontinuing tax cuts for those with incomes over $250,000."


She is also going to provide tax credits as well as a cap on insurance premiums so they don't exceed too much of a family's income. Obama doesn't have such a provision.

As for cutting health care costs

Proposes a 7-Step Strategy to Reduce Health Costs:

* A national prevention initiative;
* A “paperless” health information technology system;
* Chronic care coordination to improve outcomes;
* Elimination of insurance discrimination to help reduce administrative costs;
* An independent “Best Practices Institute” to help consumers and other purchasers and plans make the right care choices;
* “Smart purchasing” initiatives to constrain prescription drug and managed care expenditures (permit the Secretary to negotiate prices for Medicare prescription drugs, limit direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs and change patent laws to increase the availability of generic drugs; and reduce payments to Medicare Advantage plans to create more level reimbursement with traditional Medicare); and
* Linking medical error disclosure with physician liability protection.


Poor people won't be required to buy health insurance. Her plan calls for expanding Medicaid to cover more low income people. Medicaid is free.

[Barack_America]

58. I get the words. I want to see the numbers.

I understand what she plans to do, what I fail to see is how she's going to come up with the money to do it.

What incentive do the insurance companies have to work with her? Isn't it their best interests, financially speaking, to spend their money fighting this?

If she is unable to attract the votes of Independents and Republicans, what incentive do the congressmen who represent them have to work with her? If their constituents dislike her, wouldn't it be more politically advantageous to be seen fighting her "mandate"?

What percent of their income will poor people be required to pay? How is it determined how much is "too much"? What happens to people if their financial situation suddenly changes? How would they switch to Medicaid. How long would this take? (it currently takes months and months to do this) In the meantime are they forced to continue paying their premiums or are they allowed to go without insurance for a time.

That, IMO, is the problem with mandates. You have to provide so many exemptions, that you end up shooting yourself in the foot with bureaucratic costs.

[ErnestoG]

50. How many of these silly threads you gonna post, Ozark?

This is looking like a pamphlet leafing operation LOL

[annie1]

51. because he's slick and wants to win. he does not take hard positions...

because then he cannot get the republicans and independents to vote for him.

[rodeodance]

59. Obamababies will do anything to win.

[cgrindley]

53. Why do you hat pie?

Everyone loves pie. Why don't you?

[ErnestoG]

60. Perfect. Thanks for outing this OP. Same old bullshit.