Giving Drivers Licenses to Illegal Immigrants = POLITICAL SUICIDE

[boston bean]

Just ask Lou Dobbs and probably 3/4 of the American public.

[Dawgs]

1. No. Not apologizing for voting on the Iraq war is political suicide.

Supporting licenses for illegals, which Hillary did before she didn't, is a nothing issue.

[rodeodance]

19. Stick to the OP issue please.

[Dawgs]

58. I did. What part do you think didn't?

[rodeodance]

61. bringing in the war vote--flame bait--. But you knew that didn't you!

[chascarrillo]

2. Lou Dobbs can kiss my ass.

And you can, too, if you're going to support his white supremacist bullshit.

[conservdem]

44. This is an important issue to me and I think it can be a big problem

for us in the general election. I wish the focus was put on border security.

[Occam Bandage]

3. So now we're attacking Obama for taking a principled progressive stand?

[w4rma]

5. There is nothing progressive about giving drivers licenses to people who snuck over illegally. (nt)

[Occam Bandage]

6. Solving problems without relying on paranoid sloganeering is the essence of progressivism.

[chascarrillo]

7. Do you support giving drivers licenses to people convicted of check fraud?

Embezzlers?

Pornographers?

People who illegally download mp3s?

[Occam Bandage]

13. I like how he changes it from "...giving DLs to lawbreakers" once you point that out.

[chascarrillo]

18. Cute, isn't it? (nt)

[w4rma]

21. My edit beat his post by 1 minute. Nothing was "pointed out" to me. (nt)

[mckeown1128]

9. Let me get this straight...

You think that drivers licenses should be taken away from shoplifters, jay walkers, bootlegging movies, and people who don't pay for their song downloads.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. Well technically, since crossing the border without papers is a CIVIL offense,

this poster must also oppose giving licenses to speeders and stop sign runners. :)

[chascarrillo]

15. "There is nothing progressive about giving drivers licenses to law breakers. (nt)"

That was the previous poster's original message, in case you were wondering about my previous reply.

[Whisp]

30. Its a matter of public safety.

getting a license means you have to pass the road test, doesn't it?
i'd rather have tested drivers on the road than not....

isn't that the way Bill Richardson explained it - that made big sense to me then and still does now.

[chascarrillo]

34. Absolutely. I supported Clinton when she supported Spitzer's rationale...

... even if she's against the idea. The hullabaloo over her remarks was sad, ignorant, and incorrect. While she may not support the idea, she understood the reasoning behind it, and when she tried to explain it to voters, everyone had a field day. In contrast, that was the point in this campaign where I gained a hell of a lot of respect for her. She recognized the issue, addressed its complexities, and basically acted how I expect a leader to act.

[JustinL]

41. did you ever notice

People who use the "they shouldn't be driving in the first place" argument sound just like conservatives who oppose making contraceptives available to teenagers since "they shouldn't be having sex in the first place", or who oppose needle exchanges because that would be "condoning drug abuse."

[RC]

47. And you are for giving "Get Out of Jail" cards to prison escapees?

What's the difference?

[Whisp]

51. I'm all for that...

only makes sense to jump from point A to point M all in one disjointed gangly leap.
:sarcasm:

'we got to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here' or some nonsense repuke blather. or legalizing gay marriage will threaten your hetero marriage and family!

same repuke smell.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. You didn't just make that comparison, really???

Good grief.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. Amen

This is one of the most ill informed debates ever. What the hell difference does it make on immigration numbers if they have a license? Will more of them sneak across the border if they know they can get a US drivers license? Will they stay here longer?

Let's get a clue here. They don't come for a drivers license!! LOL

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. You ever get hit by an uninsured motorist?

Without a license you can't get insurance. I prefer all drivers being insured. Silly me.

[Bluerthanblue]

12. oh----

:nuke:

thank you for posting rationally- I'm too outraged by this crap to do so myself.


peace~

[rodeodance]

26. Obama has not been held accountable for his stand on this issue--press is giving

him a free pass.

When clinton said basically the same thing. the press --including dobbs had a hay day.

[Occam Bandage]

29. ...

...what the hell is a hay day?

[rodeodance]

32. oh come now--do you live on planet Earth?

[Occam Bandage]

65. Yeah. I do. I've never heard of that.

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22hay%20day%22&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

I was thinking maybe you meant http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22heyday%22&btnG=Search or http://www.google.com/search?q=field%20day&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 .

[rodeodance]

76. I just keep it simple--They had a good day (vs a bad day.

[JustinL]

50. I remember differently

I seem to remember Clinton being attacked for waffling on the issue, while Obama took a clear stand.

[rodeodance]

63. That's what I said--Clinton was attacked endlessing. Obama has not been critqued by the

press/media

[cali]

4. got any links to demonstrate that immigration is high on the list for voters?

I haven't seen it. You are sooo freakin' desperate.

[never_get_over_it]

14. Are you kidding

it is one of the top repunk issues

you know another them against us strategy - so while the working class and beat the snot out of each other "they" are robbing us blind

It is not an important issue on our side....

[cali]

20. Yes, for the repugs. The OP claimed that it was a top issue for

3/4 of the American people. That's bullshit. I've seen nothing that bears that out. And there are a lot more dems and indies than repugs. I don't know the breakdown of top issues for indies, but I doubt that for 90% of them, illegal immigration is a top issue.

[never_get_over_it]

37. Well here is a poll

do with it what you like

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

I think it could be a big issue because I think the immigrant haters are more passionate and it could drive them out to vote...

I personally think they are more looney - the whole issue IS NOT the immigrants but the sleaze bag employers who give them jobs - for low wages - which suppress our wages - if there were no jobs they would not come...

[cali]

54. that poll does nothing to support the OP's contention

and the question about supporting a path to legalization is interesting. It's pretty evenly split. Certainly nothing like 75%.

12/16-19/07
49 46 5

[never_get_over_it]

60. Well first of all I didn't really say that it did

I said do what you want with it. Secondly I think just skimming it - it is a mixed bag on the issue and thirdly specifically to the driver's license issue the poll does indeed support the OP opininon. If you scroll down through the poll there is a question I think it was in Oct that said should or should not the government give driver's license to illegals and the poll said 76% should not. 76% = 3/4

[boston bean]

23. if there is one issue that puts the GE in jeopardy, it's this one. nt

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alexander]

10. Well, Hillary was for it before she was against it.

Now where have I heard that before? :eyes:

[rodeodance]

24. Hilliary was held accountable for Dlicence issue--the press is NOT holding Obama accountable.

[Alexander]

40. Because Obama's position has been consistent from Day 1.

Hillary can't decide what her position is until Mark Penn gives her polling results.

[rodeodance]

46. well--the WORT game. What Obama Really Means. --is making a space hit.

[Alexander]

56. You can read too much into it, or you can judge candidates by what they say.

Hillary said she was against it, then she said she was for it.

I don't want a repeat of 2004. Maybe you do.

[rodeodance]

59. You made ASSumptions-, since as far as I know Obama has not been critiqued on this issue, you

are jumping ahead to what you think how he would respond--and you assumed he would renig. Then your notion that we would have a flip -flop.

ye, of not faith?


You can read too much into it, or you can judge candidates by what they say.
Posted by Alexander


Hillary said she was against it, then she said she was for it.

I don't want a repeat of 2004. Maybe you do.

[Straight Shooter]

68. "You're likable enough"

Don't mind me, I'm just judging Barack by what he says.

[FrenchieCat]

11. I the world of Politics of Hate and Division, that argument

could fly.

But in a world of change, we refuse to scapegoat the fact that folks need to be able to get insurance....as they will drive any ways. I'd hate to hear the stories of folks who's loved ones were killed by uninsured drivers who may have been illegals.

I'm sure that Obama can locate a few. They can testify to what that ordeal is like.

[depakid]

16. The more he gets pummelled over his stance- the more inroads he make with hispanics

quite aside from the fact that it's responsible public policy.

[BlackVelvet04]

27. Legal immigrants often have a deep anger

at illegal immigrants. I'm not sure it works in his favor at all.

[depakid]

49. Not over this issue

and not over others where they're potentially discriminated against.

[BlackVelvet04]

17. Here's one of the big problems with giving driver's licenses to

illegal immigrants.....many of them can't read English and the street signs are in English. The driving situation on the border is bad enough with legal immigrants driving without being able to read many of the signs. I've spent much time in Nogales, Mexico and they don't have stop signs or traffic lights in much of the city.....the whole driving thing in Mexico is different.

I lived 10 miles from the Mexican border. I really like the Mexican people in general and I highly approve of a path to citizenship but the driver's license issue really needs to be addressed in a fashion beyond YES THEY CAN and NO THEY CAN'T.

Arizona's driver license test is a joke.

Driving is just one of the reasons immigrants need to be able to read English.

[chascarrillo]

25. Que?

You don't need to know English in order to distinguish traffic signs. That's one reason why most states have drivers license tests available in multiple languages. I mean, c'mon. That's just a bad argument.

[BlackVelvet04]

31. *sigh*

I'm not talking about stop, yield, etc. Have you ever been on the interstate running 70 miles an hour behind someone who can't read the names on the exit signs? I doubt it.

I said street signs, not traffic signs.

[chascarrillo]

36. Seriously? You'd miss a turnoff to Nogales? Nanterre? Montreal? Hamburg?

Street signs are place names. I can read place names in languages that I can't speak. Non-latin alphabets may be a problem, but that's not applicable to this issue.

Sigh.

[BlackVelvet04]

38. ...................

So all signs have on them is names?

[chascarrillo]

42. Are you talking about traffic signs now?

Traffic signs are iconographic and can be understood without a knowledge of the language they are written in.

All street signs have names on them. Place names, street names, etc.

[boston bean]

48. I wonder if someone who spoke and read no english could understand this one?

[BlackVelvet04]

53. Thank you....

I've got 101 fever and the flu and just don't feel like arguing with the obtuse.

[chascarrillo]

55. Yeah, that's really tough.

Someone who speaks Spanish is going to easily know what "advisory", "grade", and "curves" mean. Unless you're going to argue that you don't know what "15-20kph" or "17 kilometres" represent, you're barking up the wrong tree.

[BlackVelvet04]

52. There are all kinds of signs.......

road signs say many things.....there are signs with words giving warnings. Next time you drive look at all the different kinds of signs giving directions and warnings.

[chascarrillo]

62. Here's one.

Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't slow down?

[chascarrillo]

64. Would you speed up here?

[JustinL]

57. huh?

How does giving a license to an unlicensed driver make them less able to read signs?

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. And when they hit you, since they don't have a license, they also don't have insurance

I would prefer they be insured. There is also the chance they will learn to be better drivers if they have to pass the test for a license.

[rodeodance]

22. Press is NOT holding Obama accountable in this issue (as they did with Clinton for days on end)!

[boston bean]

28. he is the Almighty Obama, no need to. nt

[rodeodance]

33. who rides in the ObamaPopemoble.

[boston bean]

35. I wish some one would do me a photoshop of oboma in a white robe

with rays or light beaming behind him. I could find many uses for it.

[rodeodance]

43. There is one being passed around-i forget the color of the robe--buts it a Pope robe and hat.

[Bread and Circus]

39. Is this your answer to the "garnish wages" gaffe?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

45. If that were true, Duncan Hunter would be the GOP frontrunner right now

For whatever reason, though public sentiment against illegal immigration is high, making it your signature issue is a big loser.

Clinton's disastrous non-answer re licenses is more damaging IMHO.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. Then convince the insurance companies to cover them

That's why they need a license - to get insurance. I would rather they have insurance.

[Indenturedebtor]

74. Yeah as someone who lives here in Tucson

Give them licenses for faqs sake! You think they're not going to drive if you don't?

Here is something you should know about Obama: He has the ability to take a principled stand on something and bring people over to his side. I think that he would sway people over to the arguement with sheer honesty. It's better to have these folks insured and driving safely than uninsured and driving unsafely. They're going to drive.

[busymom]

71. The people I know who support it the least

are legal immigrants who went through the proper channels.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. Oh I just love that talking point

The immigration laws have changed. I wonder how many of those legal immigrants who went through the proper channels to come here and become citizens would still be able to do so today?