Clinton just lost the election, garnish the wages of workers who refuse to buy health insurance

[usregimechange]

garnish the wages of workers who refuse to buy health insurance

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3167528&mesg_id=3167528

It is paternalistic, authoritarian, unpopular, and a sure loser for social libertarians, moderates, independents, most democrats, and just about everyone else.

[Vincardog]

1. Well if the Hill bomb has gone off can we get JE back in the race?

[flyarm]

9. Oh why oh why did John leave us????????..i will not leave him and obama's followers are making it

harder and harder for me to look his way..i am about damn sick and tired of correcting their propaganda!

fly

[DJ13]

23. "obama's followers are making it harder and harder for me to look his way"

You're not voting for the "followers".

[flyarm]

46. me too and i don't like Hillary..but i can hardly stand Obama now because his followers have turned

me off big time..they are arrogant and liars.

fly

[flyarm]

2. how many times are you going to post this propaganda...i am not

for either of these candidates but you are sure about to push me the other way..with all these lies and propaganda!!

Hillary's plan is all but Edwards plan..if you are so damn ignorant..who wants to go towards your candidate?


you are doing your candidate an injustice..and yourself..because you are looking more and more foolish by the minute!
fly

[madrchsod]

3. did she actually say-garnish or garnishment?

can`t believe anyone would say that. shit i`ve had my share over the years and that word is pretty dam unpopular with me and a whole lot of people in this country.

[cd3dem]

42. garnish with a piece of parsley or a fruit wedge?

http://www.kraftfoodservice.com/BusinessSolutions/plating_tips.htm

[roguevalley]

60. that word will not win her converts. that's all we need. garnishing

working people's wages. welcome to the gulag.

[rug]

4. They're already garnished for Social Security.

[madrchsod]

12. yes---- but that`s a very unpopular word to use

did she use it?

both candidates health care plans are about the same

[rug]

20. But one is universal, the other isn't.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

35. They don't give my SS contributions to private insurance companies. nt

[rug]

47. They let you do that.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

49. No they don't. I'm one of the uninsured.

I'm self employed and I simply can't afford the $500-700 a month they want. I have a pre-existing condition, meaning that I've been to a doctor for something at least once in my life. That's what a pre-existing condition is. My income isn't steady and I already have enough obligations.

[rug]

52. And you're against mandated universal health care?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

54. Depends on how much it costs and how they'll make me pay it.

If it's indexed to my income it won't be so bad but if it's a set monthly premium it would be harder on me.

Look, I don't have a problem with the rationale behind the mandate. My main problem is that we are handing the GOP a club to beat us with, and we're not even going to get single payer out of it.

It's shaping up to be the "Hillarycare" fiasco part deux.

[rug]

59. It will only work if it is indexed to income.

I'm in a similar situation to you and I think if it's handled correctly it's a powerful reason to vote Democratic. Reliable and certain health care for families and individuals trumps the tax argument.

I'd like to see an ad with the tax cost of one day of war next to the tax cost fur universal health care.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

50. No they don't. I'm one of the uninsured.

I'm self employed and I simply can't afford the $500-700 a month they want. I have a pre-existing condition, meaning that I've been to a doctor for something at least once in my life. That's what a pre-existing condition is. My income isn't steady and I already have enough obligations.

[nolabels]

57. No they funnel the money to defense contractors and put you bills on the national debt tab

This is just one more scam to suck money out of the working stiff's pockets and what should have we been expecting otherwise :shrug:

[flyarm]

48. it is obvious theobama IPOD KIDS haven't drawn a paycheck yet..

they just post his bullshit talking points...

my hubby and i already have health insurance payment requirements withdrawn from our paychecks..and retirement checks!!

who the fuck are they kidding??????????

certainly not me ..and they are showing their foolishness every minute here!!

fly..

[MethuenProgressive]

5. "apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it,"

Good policy.
Better than Obama's leave-most-children-ill plot.

[Egnever]

10. really? she actually said that?

who decides who can afford it?

[Bread and Circus]

6. I think it's the biggest gaffe of the entire political season thus far.

[Thrill]

7. The Media is really running with it too

Bad News for her

[yourout]

8. As much as I would like to bash Hillary about this.....

Health Care HAS to be handled like the social security program and that means everyone pays.

"Garnish the wages" is just another political hit term for payroll deductions.

[dkf]

16. Social Security is a government program so yes everyone pays

Health Care is through Corporate America. We shouldn't be forced to subsidize huge pay for CEOS. JMO.

[flyarm]

17. we are already garnished NOW..if we have health insurance..we are already being charged through

our insurance and our insurance fees for people who do not have health insurance..and furthermore and more dangerous to all of us ..the fees taken out for those with no health insurance are taken off our lifetime cap of insurance!

so we are being doubly garnished now!! and one of the ways effects our own life long care!

and we are paying to be fucked now!

dearly

fly

[sandnsea]

11. The mandates were always a deal breaker n/t

[ErnestoG]

13. Yeah, this is a SERIOUSLY damaging blow to her campaign.

The last thing people in this receeding economy want to hear is "we will garnish your wages".

Nice going Hillary. Sheesh.

[flyarm]

26. BULLSHIT AND THAT IS propaganda why don't you find out what you are

being garnished now for..oh i know... that would not work into your propaganda!!

but see we adults know what we are paying for and how we are already being garnished..now..today..and tommorrow..and we are paying big time for it in more ways than just coming out of our paychecks!

oh yeah..it is already coming out of our paychecks!!..we grownups know all about it..back to your ipod now..



fly

[Dogmudgeon]

27. Hillary garnishes our paychecks; Obama redistributes revenue wisely

--p!

[flyarm]

34. what pigs crap did you swallow?

guess you better look at what Obama promised in his state and never delivered health insurance wise..and don't miss this .........

the people of his state better damn well hope they get Edwards health plan that Hillary copied!!

fly


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22971762/
Nuclear leaks, response tested Obama in Senate
His legislation is re-made after objections from industry, regulators
By Mike McIntire

updated 12:37 a.m. ET, Sun., Feb. 3, 2008
When residents in Illinois voiced outrage two years ago upon learning that the Exelon Corporation had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants, the state’s freshman senator, Barack Obama, took up their cause.

Mr. Obama scolded Exelon and federal regulators for inaction and introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks. He has boasted of it on the campaign trail, telling a crowd in Iowa in December that it was “the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed.”


snip:
A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.

Those revisions propelled the bill through a crucial committee. But, contrary to Mr. Obama’s comments in Iowa, it ultimately died amid parliamentary wrangling in the full Senate.



snips:

Another Obama donor, John W. Rowe, chairman of Exelon, is also chairman of the Nuclear Energy Institute, the nuclear power industry’s lobbying group, based in Washington. Exelon’s support for Mr. Obama far exceeds its support for any other presidential candidate.


Since 2003, executives and employees of Exelon, which is based in Illinois, have contributed at least $227,000 to Mr. Obama’s campaigns for the United States Senate and for president. Two top Exelon officials, Frank M. Clark, executive vice president, and John W. Rogers Jr., a director, are among his largest fund-raisers.



that trial of Rezko is looking more and more interesting by the day!!

[flyarm]

51. do you have a job? do you have health insurance with your job? your check is already garnished!

save your bullshit!!

please keep up your studies..you have alot to learn..but you will get that in life ..after school and mommy and daddy aren't paying for your health insurance anymore!!

fly

[Dogmudgeon]

65. Yes .,, you True Believers are really brainwashed

When somebody doesn't blow smoke up your candied asses, you lose all control.

You swear, you rant, you lie, you screed, you scream. Spoiled rich kids, irate that they have to share the world with people they don't like.

And the constant harping about "mommy and daddy" is just funny. Why are you so obsessed with people's parents and being in school? Are you all under 18? (BTW, I turned 19 in May, 1977.)

So, this is the Audacity of Hope that the new Messiah is offering? A bunch of potty-mouthed, whining idol-worshippers? Count me out!

--p!

[jlake]

14. Keep Dreaming & Quit Lying.

Just because Obama is a Status Quo Kinda guy you have to hate on change!
SAD!

Hill Yes! Hillary Can Clean up This Mess!

[OzarkDem]

15. Obama leaves 15 mil uninsured and is anti-choice

He doesn't give consumers or businesses a chance to purchase from a government based health insurance plan like Medicare.

[SOS]

33. He doesn't? Are you sure about that?

Democratic hopefuls agree on Medicare as a healthcare model

WASHINGTON -- Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards have been sniping at each other for months over healthcare, but there's one thing the top Democratic presidential candidates agree on: Americans of all ages should have the choice of buying a government-run plan modeled on Medicare.

The idea, which would set up a competition between a new government plan and private insurance programs, has been overshadowed by the political horse race. But it's one of the most far-reaching and controversial proposals for making health insurance more affordable and more widely available.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-na-healthplans21jan21,1,6496355.story

[flyarm]

38. The Edwards Effect

The Edwards Effect


By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: February 1, 2008

If 2008 is different, it will be largely thanks to Mr. Edwards. He made a habit of introducing bold policy proposals -- and they were met with such enthusiasm among Democrats that his rivals were more or less forced to follow suit.

It's hard, in particular, to overstate the importance of the Edwards health care plan, introduced in February.

Before the Edwards plan was unveiled, advocates of universal health care had difficulty getting traction, in part because they were divided over how to get there. Some advocated a single-payer system -- a k a Medicare for all -- but this was dismissed as politically infeasible. Some advocated reform based on private insurers, but single-payer advocates, aware of the vast inefficiency of the private insurance system, recoiled at the prospect.

With no consensus about how to pursue health reform, and vivid memories of the failure of 1993-1994, Democratic politicians avoided the subject, treating universal care as a vague dream for the distant future.

But the Edwards plan squared the circle, giving people the choice of staying with private insurers, while also giving everyone the option of buying into government-offered, Medicare-type plans -- a form of public-private competition that Mr. Edwards made clear might lead to a single-payer system over time. And he also broke the taboo against calling for tax increases to pay for reform.

Suddenly, universal health care became a possible dream for the next administration. In the months that followed, the rival campaigns moved to assure the party's base that it was a dream they shared, by emulating the Edwards plan. And there's little question that if the next president really does achieve major health reform, it will transform the political landscape.

snip:

Furthermore, to the extent that this remains a campaign of ideas, it remains true that on the key issue of health care, the Clinton plan is more or less identical to the Edwards plan. The Obama plan, which doesn't actually achieve universal coverage, is considerably weaker.


Paul Krugman joined The New York Times in 1999 as a columnist on the Op-Ed Page and continues as professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University.

Mr. Krugman received his B.A. from Yale University in 1974 and his Ph.D. from MIT in 1977. He has taught at Yale, MIT and Stanford. At MIT he became the Ford International Professor of Economics.

[madrchsod]

18. this what basically killed her first plan

well that and no one could figure it out!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

19. chortle

[newmajority]

21. Mandatory corporate healthcare is NOT universal health care.

Nice one, Hillary. When is Willard Romney going to charge her with plagiarism?

[Whisp]

22. Refuse or just Can't!?

she wants to Guarantee that her insurance friends get to squeeze every available nickle for their yachts.

[ErnestoG]

24. Hillary! Change. Progress. Wage Garnishment.

I can see that new slogan for her.

[suston96]

25. Please link to where Hillary Clinton used the word "garnished"...nt

[1corona4u]

28. Stop the stupid shit...

this is no different than the way we pay for SS and medicare now. Either you want universal health care, or you don't. If you don't, then vote republican.

[flyarm]

40. thank you... so glad to see some adults around these parts!! eom

[OHdem10]

29. Half the Country Plus Some Independents will not agree to

National Healthcare--Single Payer. It is a waste of time to even
discuss it. Rasising taxes to pay for health care is socialized
medicine for them. If there is no GOP Support--it will never pass.
Too serious an issue not to have BiPartisan Support.

Hilary has found a way to provide less costly health care for
everyone using Private and Public Cooperation. The Public will
buy this. It will be set up in such a way that should the
public reach the point where they will accept Single Payer
it can easily be converted to Single Payer.

Do not forget, if you are happy with your insurance now--you
can keep it and be happy.

If John Edwards had thought for one minute he could have passed
Single Payer , he would have done it in a NY Minute. There
are realities to be accepted.

[flyarm]

41. absolutely..thank you..another adult around here that gets it!! eom

[Tatiana]

30. Actually, a payroll deduction is a smart idea, IMO. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

36. For a single payer system, NOT for greedy private insurers. nt

[creeksneakers2]

63. You can pay toward a government plan if you choose

So that's essentially the same thing as contributing to a single payer plan. If other people want to pay more to buy private insurance, how does that hurt you?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

64. The plan will not get through Congress with that provision

When the insurance lobby is done with it you will have the mandates, but without the ability to choose government coverage. That will be a catch-all for the poor and uninsurable. The rest will be required to purchase private insurance. Bet on it.

[Texas_Kat]

31. I'm sure the Repubs said the same thing to FDR about Social Security

oh wait....they're STILL saying it.

Either Universal Coverage is universal or it's not. I don't agree with privatizing Social Security either -- do you?

[flyarm]

32. i have been doing my own research on your candidate and i don't like what i see...

like the health insurance he promised in his own state and then did not deliver and this that he promised the people of his state then sold them out..

you can post all your talking point and propaganda..but us grown ups do our own research and this grown up does not like what i am seeing..


seems the people of Obama's state better hope they have Edwards health plan that Hillary copied..looks like they are going to need it!!
fly

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22971762/
Nuclear leaks, response tested Obama in Senate
His legislation is re-made after objections from industry, regulators
By Mike McIntire

updated 12:37 a.m. ET, Sun., Feb. 3, 2008
When residents in Illinois voiced outrage two years ago upon learning that the Exelon Corporation had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants, the state’s freshman senator, Barack Obama, took up their cause.

Mr. Obama scolded Exelon and federal regulators for inaction and introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks. He has boasted of it on the campaign trail, telling a crowd in Iowa in December that it was “the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed.”


snip:
A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.

Those revisions propelled the bill through a crucial committee. But, contrary to Mr. Obama’s comments in Iowa, it ultimately died amid parliamentary wrangling in the full Senate.



snips:

Another Obama donor, John W. Rowe, chairman of Exelon, is also chairman of the Nuclear Energy Institute, the nuclear power industry’s lobbying group, based in Washington. Exelon’s support for Mr. Obama far exceeds its support for any other presidential candidate.


Since 2003, executives and employees of Exelon, which is based in Illinois, have contributed at least $227,000 to Mr. Obama’s campaigns for the United States Senate and for president. Two top Exelon officials, Frank M. Clark, executive vice president, and John W. Rogers Jr., a director, are among his largest fund-raisers.

[Thrill]

37. Hillary is going to get the healthcare money for her

lobbyists my any means necessary.

[cd3dem]

39. nice try, what do you think employee health insurance is? and most colleges require it to enroll

my daughter has to provide her insurance information every time she signs up for classes at the University... if she does not give company name and policy number, they will give her health insurance and charge her account... and she has no job! no insurance, no college!

Welcome to the 21st century!

[flyarm]

43. the Obama camp is giving these young'uns talking points of which they have zero knowledge..and they

repeat the bullshit and think.. becaue they are ignorant ...the rest of us are...

hey ipod kids..we pay your insurance..we get it..enough with the propaganda and bullshit..you are being made fools of!!

from an Edwards supporter

fly

[cd3dem]

61. young voters have no clue... and Obama is taken 'em for a ride.....

My daughter will vote for the person I tell her is the best choice... just as my father told me who to vote for when I was 18...

in MN when Jesse Ventura ran for Governor, he came on campus... bought pizza and talked to the young people... After they came out and voted for him and he was elected, the young people were amazed when he made the statement, "If you are smart enough to go to college, you are smart enough to figure out how to pay for it."... when they asked why, after they voted for him? he said he never promised them anything.... they were so caught up with the moment of an ex-wrestler running... they forgot to ask him a question of what he would do for them....

young voters have no clue... and Obama is taken em for a ride.....

[emilyg]

44. Stop it. Misinformation.

[flyarm]

55. i have been trying to stop this bullshit propaganda all day,,these obama kids

are reminding me of Bushbot sheeple every day..

and they sure are not helping their candidate with Edwards supporters of which i am....

makes the resolve only more solidified to vote for Edwards ...on Tuesday for many of us..

fly

[msongs]

45. the statement said one of many options, not she "will". dont let facts stop you tho nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Did she really say that?

For fuck's sake.

[flyarm]

56. no she didn't

[Guaranteed]

62. Yes, she said an enforcement possibility was going after people's wages. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. Possible or definite?

There IS a big difference.

[cooolandrew]

58. Exactly why Barack made his plan optional. Obama uses his intelligence positively enough for me.