If you don't have health care insurance and you can afford it, you're part of the problem

[ruggerson]

and I don't want to pay for your emergency room visits.

And there are a lot of folks who feel like I do.

[Levgreee]

1. What if you can afford it, but it is still not a smart choice at the time?

so technically you can afford it, but it hurts you to do so. Like, you really want to save up for a new house, because after you do that you will have less money problems, better job, etc. And the healthcare is in the way.

What then?

Also, Obama's plan makes so people will have to pay themselves for the emergency room visit, OR that they will have to have some extra charges if they decide to enroll at that time, to pay back the extra cost.

[ruggerson]

3. tough. buy it.

learn to budget.

[orleans]

6. wtf is your problem?

[ruggerson]

11. expecting people to handle their finances

in an adult fashion that does not lay the burden on other families is a problem?

[rodeodance]

36. and that means buying your own health ins. if you can afford it--even if

it puts off buying a house.

Its called being a responsible citizen --instead of having others pay your health costs--so you can buy a house -or whatever.

[surfermaw]

35. Sometime the problem is buying expensive athletic shoes and Jeans

[BlackVelvet04]

24. And that's why Obama's claim that people

don't buy health insurance because they can't afford it is such a fairy tale. It friggin' hurts most people to put out money for health insurance...they could use that money to pay off their car payment, or credit card bills, but they do it because it's the responsible thing to do.

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. No kidding. I won't tell you what we pay for a Private Policy, but it's not cheap.

There are so many other things I'd be able to spend that money on, but it's like playing roulette without insurance. Other things just have to wait. That's all there is to it. One illness, one stay in the hospital can bankrupt people who have no insurance.

[BlackVelvet04]

43. Did you see my post on insurance advice in GP?

I was paying $585 last year for my husband and myself with a $5,000 deductible per person. Last month I was advised it was going to $747 a month. No way could we afford that.

I called an insurance broker and he told me that it was the "pool" we had been thrown into that was making it so expensive.

He reworked our insurance, put my husband and I into different pools. My husband has a $1,000 deductible. I have a $3,500 deductible with well visits and prescriptions not subject to deductibles. The cost for both plans is
$360 a month.

BTW, the new plans are with the same company we had.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2811524

I was SO happy to find out I could save that much money and get BETTER coverage.

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. Thank You! I will DEFINITELY look into that. $1125.00 every 2 months for my son and I.

$560.00 a month and it goes up constantly. It's PAINFUL, but I would NEVER go without it and if I had a CHEAPER option, I would grab it in a second! I can't wait to see what the Government plan offers. It HAS to be much cheaper.

I am going to bookmark your thread. Thanks so much!

[BlackVelvet04]

55. You're welcome and good luck.

I was amazed at how much he could save me....same company BETTER deductibles BETTER coverage and almost $400 a month less. Mine had gone up at least $100 a month every year.

Oh, and he said to check it out with him every time my insurance goes up. He'll just keep moving me to a different pool.
:-) he said it's like a game and he knows how to play it and win.

[busymom]

30. Well, it might not feel smart right now, but...

I can guarantee you if you are diagnosed unexpectedly with cancer like I was at a young age, or have an accident illness that you will wish like hell that you had inconvenienced yourself and taken a little longer to save for the house that you will then never own. Thank GOD I had health insurance or I don't konw how we'd be paying back the $500,000k plus.

[orleans]

2. news for you: if you can afford it and you don't have health insurance

then you are obligated to pay for your own er visits.

that's what i have to do. (i really can't afford insurance--but i pay for the er shit, doctors, meds, etc)

what are you talking about? (sounds like a puke talking point or something)

[ruggerson]

5. most hospitals end up paying for people who don't have insurance

driving up the costs for those who pay into the system

[orleans]

15. well then goddamn! i should phone up the hospital and tell them

i've decided NOT TO PAY AFTER ALL--they can send everyone else my fucking bill. (think that will work?)

[Emit]

38. Most hospitals overcharge the uninsured

as I understand it. Most also sue patients or take them to a credit collector to receive payment when a patient is unable, or refuses, to pay.

[orleans]

45. that's what i always heard--that they overcharge

HOWEVER,
my eye dr. (for example) charges MORE if my daughter has insurance than if i just pay cash. the insurance is a 500 deductible. so...i would always say we didn't have vision insurance and then her father & i would split the bill (which was cheaper than if we admitted my kid did have insurance, because her eye/contact/exam bill was never over 500)

my trip to the er--i think i got a no insurance discount (not positive--but it wasn't that much) AND i got about fifty bucks off the bill for paying early.

my doctor charges me less because i don't have insurance

[Bluerthanblue]

13. me too- sometimes it takes a long time to pay it off, but

I always do.

And I also pay more for the exact same procedure or service because insurance companies bargan for a lower price- and people like you and I make up the difference.

:hi:

peace~

[orleans]

47. see my post 45

i think if you tried telling these people you'll shop around then maybe??

i know you can't do it in er but for tests/procedures--ask your doctor where else you can go, call ahead and get prices, talk to these people and see if you can get your price lowered.

it's not always so cut and dried. sometimes, a lot of these med. people & places are willing to help

[LanternWaste]

4. How much are we allowed to make and not afford it?

How much are we allowed to make and not afford it so as not to upset your (and many other's) rigid dogmatism?

10k? 20k? 50k? What is this answrer based on?

As for me, I just as soon see all healthcare paid for through our taxes...

[H2O Man]

7. That is based

on the assumption that all people without insurance use the ER.

[ruggerson]

16. true

OP is based on being more than a little pissed off at seeing putative liberals spewing Republican "Harry and Louise" talking points.

[Mojambo]

8. Do you really think there's a lot of people who can afford it that choose not to get it?

I seriously doubt that.

What has more to do with insurance costs? CEO's taking home absurd bonus pay or people who don't bother to get insurance because they'd rather just go to the ER?

I'd say the former, myself.

[busymom]

33. Both

I know people who have good jobs but feel healthy enough to risk it....My mom was one of them until she got a job that provided her benefits. She was a contract worker and should have budgeted healthcare costs into her take home pay...she didn't...because it gave her less mad money to spend.

[JFKgirl]

9. what if you lose your job? hillarys plan would throw you under the bus

hillary knows nothing about healthcare. she didnt even read the iwr bill before voting for it.

[BlackVelvet04]

29. Not true.....

# Affordable: Unlike the current health system where insurance premiums send people into bankruptcy, the plan provides tax credits for working families to help them cover their costs. The tax credits will ensure that working families never have to pay more than a limited percentage of their income for health care.

# Available: No discrimination. The insurance companies can't deny you coverage if you have a pre-existing condition.

# Reliable: It's portable. If you change or lose your job, you keep your health care.

[old guy]

50. Questions; What is the limited percentage? Who will decide that?

[BlackVelvet04]

56. I'm not sure what your question is...

limited percentage of what? I'll try to answer if I can.

[old guy]

61. In your post #29 .

It says a limited percentage of your income. How would that percentage be determined and who would determine it?

[BlackVelvet04]

63. I'm sorry, I truly don't know....

probably to be hashed out in Congress.

[BootinUp]

10. I think they should just move to France England or Canada.

cut the dead weight loose.

[Solon]

12. What about those who can pay for it, but still can't get it, for their preexisting conditions?

I have a messed up shoulder, I need surgery to fix it, I couldn't afford insurance when it happened, and if I could afford it in the future, no insurance company on the planet is going to pay to fix my shoulder unless they are forced to(at the very least). What about us?

[ruggerson]

18. that's exactly what Hillary is talking about

she mentioned it again this morning. Insurance companies should HAVE to cover people with preexisting conditions.

[rodeodance]

40. PLEASE start a thread about this ---it might be helpful for all to know and is buried here. thanks

[NMMNG]

20. You're covered

Insurance companies can not deny you coverage.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/

[Solon]

23. But at what cost?

Private insurance companies are going to recoup the costs somehow, whether in forcing me to pay more in deducts or copays, or simply raising my premiums. What's to stop them from doing that? It doesn't help if I can afford a "cheap" premium, but still can't pay a 5 grand deduct on a 50 thousand dollar surgery.

[boston bean]

26. Oh god there are going to be caps and subsidies and no one can be refused coverage

and you can be part of the congresses health plan if you want.

[Solon]

37. First of all, Congress's health plan is still technically private, even if they get a special...

rate. My concern are in the cracks, that exist now, that I've seen no one offering private-public options consider. Subsidies are nice, if they pay more than half, and are paid in a timely fashion. Rebates are a joke. The key is that any mandated coverage would have to cover such things 100% to be affordable to the vast majority of people who are uninsured and underinsured. The only thing I find somewhat heartening is her mention of a "public plan" option, which is probably going to be the only thing affordable, but I'm wondering when she's going to mention details about it. The only thing she's mentioned so far is no creation of new bureaucracies. I'm also wondering if its going to be paid for through payroll taxes or not. No details of that so far.

[BlackVelvet04]

34. the government plans have always covered

pre-existing conditions. It's a huge pool of people and that's why they can. The larger the pool the cheaper the costs.

[Solon]

44. Yeah, but that doesn't answer my question...

Insurance companies have two different ways of denying coverage for preexisting conditions, one is to outright forbid the coverage, that, at least, the Hillary plan addresses. The other is to price it out of the affordable range, through increasing your deducts and co-pays, in addition to premiums(though Hillary mentioned caps on premiums). Like I said, what's to stop an insurance company from giving me a useless program of coverage, where, while the premiums are affordable, the deducts and co-pays are not? From a legal standpoint, I would be "covered" from a practical standpoint, I would not. That's the question.

I have no doubt that insurance companies are going to attempt this much more often now, if they can't deny you coverage by saying no, they will deny it by saying yes, but asking for a buttload of money from you that you don't have. In both cases, the result is the same, you don't get treated.

[BlackVelvet04]

59. They aren't going to be allowed to price it out of range.

As much as anything, it sounds to me like it's a insurance regulation plan. The government insurance plans never go up a whole lot.

"End to Unfair Health Insurance Discrimination: By creating a level-playing field of insurance rules across states and markets, the plan ensures that no American is denied coverage, refused renewal, unfairly priced out of the market, or forced to pay excessive insurance company premiums."

[BlackVelvet04]

27. Her plan would bar insurance companies from

using pre-existing conditions to keep you from getting insurance. The insurance offered through the government health care system is wonderful. I would love to have it again.

[BlackVelvet04]

32. Part of the plan says:

Insurance companies won't be able to deny you coverage or drop you because their computer model says you're not worth it. They will have to offer and renew coverage to anyone who applies and pays their premium. And like other things that you buy, they will have to compete for your business based on quality and price. Families will have the security of knowing that if they become ill or lose their jobs, they won't lose their coverage.

[old guy]

54. Who are they going to compete with?

Other insurance companies right? That's what we have now and how well is that working?

[BlackVelvet04]

60. Her plan is really partly an insurance regulation plan:

End to Unfair Health Insurance Discrimination: By creating a level-playing field of insurance rules across states and markets, the plan ensures that no American is denied coverage, refused renewal, unfairly priced out of the market, or forced to pay excessive insurance company premiums.

When I had the government insurance the government kept a very strict control of it. If the prices got too high the government would just drop that insurer and make a deal with another one. When you have thousands upon thousands of people no company wants to lose that business. Now think about it being millions of people. Lots of leverage.

[old guy]

62. OK. Thanks.

[Life Long Dem]

14. Oh I see.

Potential customers are not buying.

[Schema Thing]

17. Nah, not really.

It's become unaffordable to everyone.

It's insurance that SOME (but not very many) people could afford but don't get.

But then again, if they tried to get it, they might be refused for some pre-existing. Or if they used it, it might be denied anyway. Or premiums might start rising if they actually need to use it, or they may rise for no reason at all other than greed.


No, insurance is the lions share of the problem. Profit and greed are big problems. Inefficiency, that's a big one. The little guy gambling with his rent/food/transportation/modest vacation money.... that's not the problem.

[BootinUp]

19. You sound like someone who hasn't even read the plan. nt

[Schema Thing]

25. er... I'm pretty sure I wasn't responding to a "plan". Please re-read the OP

[ruggerson]

28. The OP was prompted by the REPUBLICAN-LITE demonization of Clinton's plan

[BootinUp]

31. The OP is in reference to the health care plans you seem to not understand them.

[Schema Thing]

39. No, I'm pretty sure you couldn't come to that conclusion based on my response

[BootinUp]

46. So you are of the opinion

that everyone should be able to opt out paying something for a universal health care.

Should we consider that for SS and Medicare too?

BTW the reason I mention the plans Hillarys in particlar, is that it actually proposes some very important regulations on private insurers that would correct some of the problems you mentioned. Also it would provide an option to bypass private insurers altogther.

[Schema Thing]

51. Single payer is the only thing that makes sense to me

Obama's and Hillary's plans both go a long way towards correcting the problems I mention. They'd both be huge improvements.

The idea of garnishing wages or "forcing" (through anything other than taxes) Americans to purchase for-profit health insurance, gives me the heebie-geebies.

Especially so considering that for-profit insurance companies are now disgusting looters of the American pocketbook and welfare.

[Mojambo]

21. Good post. Particularly the last couple of lines. n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

22. well said-

you answered this perfectly.

thanks!

peace~

[adapa]

42. so you want single payer health care?

[Lisa0825]

48. I have health insurance, but I do not agree with you.

The industry as it is now is a RACKET. It is overpriced, biased against the patient, and just plain corrupt. If I had to buy my own insurance, I am not totally sure I would. I hope that any mandated policy requirement will also ensure that companies will be thoroughly investigated for practices (like calling decades-old procedures experimental so they don't have to pay), held to high standards of service, and had a full overview of their accounting.

[Radical Activist]

49. As a young healthy person, I'm not interested in paying more health care costs of the elderly.

I already do that through a large portion of my paycheck that goes to medicare and social security.

[Vinca]

53. What the hell, let grandma die. nt

[Radical Activist]

58. Grandma is doing fine. She already has her health care paid for by the government.

That's why years of Clinton Democrats talking about prescription drugs for seniors, but not me, failed to get me excited. Apparently the elderly are the only ones who matter in the health care debate for the last 10 years.

[stimbox]

57. Bunch of selfish shits on this thread. It's not a me society it's a we society.

Only REAL healthcare reform can solve this issue.

and that is HR 676

http://www.house.gov/conyers/news_hr676.htm