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Recap: Health Care for All v. 15 Million OBAMA LEAVES Uninsured:

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:43 PM
Original message
Recap: Health Care for All v. 15 Million OBAMA LEAVES Uninsured:

Sen. Obama Speech In Wilmington, DE Misrepresents His Health Care Plan

2/3/2008 2:11:01 PM

At an event today in Wilmington, DE, Sen. Obama once again falsely claimed that his health care plan would cover every American. He said:

"I've said we are going to have a health care plan that is at least as good as the health care I have as a member of Congress, for every single American."

That's false. Sen. Obama's health care plan leaves out 15 million Americans. Sen. Clinton has a health care plan that covers everyone.



Recap: Health Care for All v. 15 Million Uninsured

11/28/2007 9:43:15 PM

"When it comes to truth in labeling, his plan simply flunks the test." —Hillary Clinton, 11/28/07

Sen. Obama claims there is no significant difference between his health care plan and Hillary's health care plan. But unlike Hillary’s American Health Choices Plan, Sen. Obama’s plan is not universal. Even Sen. Obama admits that his plan is not universal, and does not guarantee coverage.

Experts estimate that Sen. Obama’s plan will leave 15 million people uninsured. Sen. Obama has offered a variety of explanations for failing to cover all Americans. Sen. Obama’s spokesman claims that requiring coverage should be left to the states; Sen. Obama’s advisor says mandates are too ambitious and unpopular with middle class voters, and Sen. Obama says that he’ll figure out how to cover everyone later.

But Sen. Obama’s Health Care Task Force understands that Sen. Obama’s plan just isn’t good enough. Back in 2004, Sen. Obama sponsored legislation that created a Health Care Task Force. Now in 2007, Sen. Obama’s Task Force has recommended an individual mandate to provide universal coverage.

By majority vote, the Task Force decided to submit the Expansion Model described below to the Legislature...All Illinois residents will be required to obtain health care coverage and those under 400 percent of the federal poverty level (FPL) will have subsidized coverage options available to them.

Sen. Obama’s Task Force has evaluated a proposal from the insurance industry and has concluded that without a mandate, the people of Illinois will be left uninsured.

Proposal – Members of the Adequate Health Care Task Force Associated with the Insurance Industry: … Due to the voluntary nature of this proposal, slightly less than one-third of Illinois’ uninsured residents are projected to obtain coverage…"

Health care experts from around the nation overwhelmingly agree with the conclusions of Sen. Obama’s Task Force: without an individual mandate, there will be no universal health care. Even some prominent Republicans endorse individual mandates for health care reform.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger: ‘Unpaid medical bills mean billions of dollars in hidden taxes for the rest of us because those services have to be paid for.’ "More than 60 emergency rooms have closed over the past decade because they didn't want to keep treating people without insurance. Unpaid medical bills mean billions of dollars in hidden taxes for the rest of us because those services all have to be paid for. So we pay higher deductibles, costs for treatment, premiums and co-pays," said Gov. Schwarzenegger "Companies stop offering coverage, which leads to more people without insurance and the whole cycle keeps repeating. Nearly three million people in California whose jobs do provide coverage turn it down because they think they're healthy and don't need it, or they don't want to pay their share of ever-higher premiums. We have to aim high and attack the entire system from top to bottom. We can create a model the rest of the nation can follow."

Sen. Bob Bennett: ‘I think it’s in society’s best interest to have everyone have some sort of coverage…so that is how we get universal coverage.’ “I think everyone should have some kind of coverage. Let's talk about an individual mandate. I think everyone should have some kind of coverage. I think it is in society's best interest to have everyone have some kind of coverage. We do it with auto insurance. You can't drive if you don't have an individual insurance plan. So that is how we get universal coverage.”

Sec. Tommy Thompson: Everyone should be required to have health insurance – and then the premiums should be subsidized by the state. The Dunn County News reported, “47 million Americans are uninsured, and when the uninsured need health care, they go to an emergency room. ‘They end up with the most expensive health care because they can’t afford to go to a clinic,’ Thompson said, noting that everyone should be required to have health insurance — and then the premiums should be subsidized by the state.”

Sec. Paul H. O’Neill: ‘I would pass a law mandating every American to purchase a level of health care coverage.’ Paul O’Neil, former Bush administration treasury secretary, testified before the US Senate Finance Committee, “I would pass a law mandating every American to purchase a base level of health care coverage. Those that have a certain level of income and wealth must not only carry coverage, but through a simplified, fundamentally reformed tax system, provide financial support to help those who don’t have the means to fully finance their own coverage.”


http://facts.hillaryhub.com/
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ah. More "facts" according to Hillary. n/t
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monarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. OK then, refute them. n/t
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. It isn't so much about who gets it as how it is paid for
Making low income people go out and buy insurance is not a solution. Providing them with health care IS a solution.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. That's NOT what she said, but the rumor keeps floating around here
She SAID, IF THE PEOPLE CAN AFFORD IT and refuse to buy it, they could go after the wages. If the poor cannot afford it, they will have help to buy it. The entire thing will be structured around a household INCOME.


she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

She went on to say that this would apply to those who could afford insurance but chose not to purchase it.

She also DID NOT say this is what she WILL DO. She was just giving examples of what COULD BE DONE.


I don't see what the big deal is here....other than Obama supporters, once again, twisting the truth. IMCPO, this is close to the Health Care systems in Canada and Europe. People pay HIGH TAXES to get the coverage they have, which, IMCPO, is FANTASTIC! What's the big deal here? Other than you want Hillary to look bad.

Here's her plan. Maybe you'd like to read it:

Hillary Clinton unveiled the third part of her plan to ensure that all Americans have affordable, quality health insurance. Building on her proposals to rein in costs and to insist on value and quality, her American Health Choices Plan will secure, simplify and ensure choice in health coverage for all Americans. This Plan covers every American - finally addressing the needs of the 47 million uninsured and the tens of millions of workers with coverage who fear they could be one pink slip away from losing their health coverage - with no overall increase in health spending or taxes. For those with health insurance, the plan builds on the current system to give businesses and their employees greater choice of health plans - including keeping the one they have - while lowering cost and improving quality. Specifically, the American Health Choices Plan will:

The American Health Choices Plan gives Americans the choice to preserve their existing coverage, while offering new choices to those with insurance, to the 47 million people in the United States without insurance, and the tens of millions more at risk of losing coverage.


* The Same Choice of Health Plan Options that Members of Congress Receive: Americans can keep their existing coverage or access the same menu of quality private insurance options that their Members of Congress receive through a new Health Choices Menu, established without any new bureaucracy as part of the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program (FEHBP). In addition to the broad array of private options that Americans can choose from, they will be offered the choice of a public plan option similar to Medicare.

* A Guarantee of Quality Coverage: The new array of choices offered in the Menu will provide benefits at least as good as the typical plan offered to Members of Congress, which includes mental health parity and usually dental coverage.

Americans who are satisfied with the coverage they have today can keep it, while benefiting from lower premiums and higher quality.


* Reducing Costs: By removing hidden taxes, stressing prevention and a focus on efficiency and modernization, the plan will improve quality and lower costs.

* Strengthening Security: The plan ensures that job loss or family illnesses will never lead to a loss of coverage or exorbitant costs.

* End to Unfair Health Insurance Discrimination: By creating a level-playing field of insurance rules across states and markets, the plan ensures that no American is denied coverage, refused renewal, unfairly priced out of the market, or forced to pay excessive insurance company premiums.

Relying on consumers or the government alone to fix the system has unintended consequences, like scaled-back coverage or limited choices. This plan ensures that all who benefit from the system share in the responsibility to fix its shortcomings.


* Insurance and Drug Companies: insurance companies will end discrimination based on pre-existing conditions or expectations of illness and ensure high value for every premium dollar; while drug companies will offer fair prices and accurate information.

* Individuals: will be required to get and keep insurance in a system where insurance is affordable and accessible.

* Providers: will work collaboratively with patients and businesses to deliver high-quality, affordable care.

* Employers: will help financing the system; large employers will be expected to provide health insurance or contribute to the cost of coverage: small businesses will receive a tax credit to continue or begin to offer coverage.

* Government: will ensure that health insurance is always affordable and never a crushing burden on any family and will implement reforms to improve quality and lower cost.

Senator Clinton’s plan will:


* Provide Tax Relief to Ensure Affordability: Working families will receive a refundable tax credit to help them afford high-quality health coverage.

* Limit Premium Payments to a Percentage of Income: The refundable tax credit will be designed to prevent premiums from exceeding a percentage of family income, while maintaining consumer price consciousness in choosing health plans.


* Create a New Small Business Tax Credit: To make it easier-not harder-for small businesses to create new jobs with health coverage, a new health care tax credit for small businesses will provide an incentive for job-based coverage.

* Strengthen Medicaid and CHIP: The Plan will fix the holes in the safety net to ensure that the most vulnerable populations receive affordable, quality care.

* Launch a Retiree Health Legacy Initiative: A new tax credit for qualifying private and public retiree health plans will offset a significant portion of catastrophic expenditures, so long as savings are dedicated to workers and competitiveness.



* Most Savings Come Through Lowering Spending Due to Quality and Modernization: Over half the savings come from the public savings generated from Senator Clinton’s broader agenda to modernize the heath systems and reduce wasteful health spending.

* A Net Tax Cut for American Taxpayers: The plan offers tens of millions of Americans a new tax credit to make premiums affordable-which more than offsets the increased revenues from the Plan’s provisions to limit the employer tax exclusion for health care and discontinue portions of the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000. Thus, the plan provides a net tax cut for American taxpayers.

* Making the Employer Tax Exclusion for Health Care Fairer: The plan protects the current exclusion from taxes of employer-provided health premiums, but limits the exclusion for the high-end portion of very generous plans for those making over $250,000.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. So is she talking about paying taxes or paying out of pocket?
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Who's offering Health Care for All?
Curious?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. spam-a-lot, you are wearing out any welcome you may have had...
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Billary had their chance and failed nt
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. The Insurance co and GOP scared the
people. Universal Health care bad. Communistic. Harry and Louise worried about socialism health care. It was a horror story. I noticed Obama has a similar Harry and Louise commercial. same hair style, plaid shirt, kitchen table etc. Hillary's health care plan is right for us. I understand his wife works for a hospital that makes a fortune on poor peoples medical debt to them.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. The real horror story was Hillary conferencing behind closed doors.
*That's* where the wheels came off, and everyone knows it.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hillary will force 15 million people to pay for insurance against
their will. She will determine that they are perfectly capable of affording health insurance and will confiscate their wages so that fat cat CEOs will make even more money than they are now.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. CEO pay...
H. Edward Hanway
Chief Executive Officer
CIGNA Corporation

The proxy statement for CIGNA Corporation uses the new SEC executive compensation rules.

In 2006, H. Edward Hanway raked in $21,014,500

Ronald A. Williams
Chief Executive Officer
Aetna Inc.

The proxy statement for Aetna Inc. uses the new SEC executive compensation rules.

In 2006, Ronald A. Williams raked in $19,802,476 in total compensation according to the SEC. However, according to the AFL-CIO's calculation method*, he raked in $32,158,245 in total 2006 compensation.

William W. McGuire
Chief Executive Officer
UnitedHealth Group Incorporated

The proxy statement for UnitedHealth Group Incorporated uses the new SEC executive compensation rules.

In 2006, William W. McGuire raked in $12,049,699 in total compensation according to the SEC.

http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/ceou/data...
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Well if they get sick are you going to pay their bills?
I don't want to. But be my guest start saving now.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hillary is out to garnish peoples wages. Who does she think she is?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Read what she said. That was only an example of something she COULD do.
She didn't say she would! Besides that, she would only go after the wages of people who CAN afford health care and refuse to buy it. NOT poor people! There's nothing wrong with that! Read what she actually SAID before you spout off!

Either you want a Universal Health Care plan or you don't. If you were smart, you would take it NOW because if a repuke is ever in power again, we will NEVER have Universal Health Care! TAKE IT WHILE THE TAKING IS GOOD!
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Even having an open mind to garnishing wages is absolutely unacceptable. n/t
n/t
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. The President of the US.
Who is going to pay the bills you? Don't let the word garnish get your shorts in a twist. You pay Income tax, state tax, Social Security, Medicare, union dues, percentage of the cost of health insurance from you job. That is garnished.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. Mandatory Health Insurance is not equal to Universal Healthcare
The European countries have Universal Healthcare, it is paid through taxes. Everyone is covered, no 3rd party Insurers.

What Hillary is proposing is a windfall for the Insurance companies,
and another bill in the mail for the American People.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Therein lies the difference
It is one thing for it to be mandatory to "buy" something administered by the government another when it goes directly to corporations.
All three top candidates have insurance companies involved.
I think Obama wants to avoid resentment for buying healthcare.
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angie_love Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. LOOK, MA is doing this mandatory healthcare thing and it sucks.
I'm getting penalized b/c I don't have healthcare and forced to pay higher taxes. I don't want to be forced to pay for healthcare. What about ppl that can't afford it?
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Your full of it. You can afford it. Why should I pay for you.
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angie_love Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Wow
How do YOU know what I can and cannot afford? You complete ASS! God the arrogance of some people are truly amazing.
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LordJFT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. Title should read cutting costs vs. Forcing those who can't afford it to buy it
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. Isn't it available to all?
Clinton seems to believe that it will leave 15 million uninsured because 15 million people won't want it.

Arguably, that makes his plan more expensive than hers. But I think saying that it is less universal than hers is disingenuous.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. The uninsured is what makes the cost of healthcare go up. We need everyone insured.
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