Sorry, Sen. Clinton, but you don't get to reach into MY paycheck and give MY money to private

[Guaranteed]

insurance companies, your cash-bag buddies, if I can't even afford insurance in the first place.

Your plan is idiotic, and the worst of both the no-insurance and having insurance worlds. I'd rather have no insurance at all than bankroll your Presidential campaign just so I can get turned down for coverage by these HMO clowns in the UNLIKELY event that I even need healthcare.

If you want to mandate that everyone put their money into the pot, then you do it right. You banish the health insurance companies and bring in the massive buying power of the federal or state governments. What you do NOT do is feed into this greedy, unbelievably cost-inflated system we already have in place by grabbing MORE of the consumer's money and handing it over to those who only want to cheat them.

[msongs]

1. good ideas, since obamahillary both support coporations, but dennis is out. too bad. nt

[busymom]

2. Hillary's plan

is to also open up the congressional healthplan to Americans....that's a bit different than what you are claiming.

[MH1]

17. Federal Employees Health Plan - what the congressional plan is

isn't it just pooling federal employees for private insurance plans?

My parents were in that and I don't see how much different it is than any other insurance I've had through employers, except the cost-benefit was probably better for the insured party.

For the record, BCBS through the Federal Plan still *sucked* in terms of payment, denial of charges for bogus reasons, and various paperwork hassles.

The only good medical plan I've ever experienced is the one I had in the military. Sick? Just go to the doctor. Due for a check-up? The doctor's office called me and I went. None of the b.s. paperwork stuff.

I haven't gotten too much into these arguments because I don't see that much difference in Obama's and Clinton's plan, except that he prioritizes children which I think is correct for several reasons. But that's not the reason I like Obama better than Clinton.

[Thrill]

3. Now you have to worry about the government taking taxes and a Healthcare tax

[Lost-in-FL]

4. Why not? I'm already paying for a war

What should I be more pissed off about, my own care or the fact that my money is funding a war?

[BringBigDogBack]

7. Ask Hillary.

[Lost-in-FL]

12. Actually, I'll better ask the "conscience voters" of 2000 election...

Those are the one's either blaming Hillary or Diebold... but its never their fault.

[Kittycat]

33. Actually, you're not paying for the war... Yet.

We're still operating on credit there.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. I take it you don't like her plan. So tell me yours. Your plan is....???? nt

[Guaranteed]

9. Single-payer health insurance nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. Okay, but not one candidate was in favor of that. So your plan now is?

And if I may ask, do you want to work in favor of this for the next few years, or you want it instantly done, like a hamburger from a drive-thru?

Mind you, I WANT single-payer healthcare, but if it's not going to happen instantly, voila, like magic, I'm willing to work towards it.

[Desertrose]

21. Kucinich was in favor of it.

He & Conyers actually sponsored a bill for single payer heathcare. HR676.


I'm sorry but I think we have "been working" on healthcare long enough now that we should have something more to show for it than we do.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. Kucinich is no longer running.....

.... he was shut out by the mass media, even to the point of the media appealing a court ruling (which I found disgusting).

And I agree we need more. However, we've had decades of a right wing country. It's unfortunately still right wing.

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. Did you even bother to read what she actually SAID? Obviously, you didn't.

ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD IT COULD HAVE THEIR WAGES GARNISHED and she wasn't saying this is something she WOULD DO, she was only giving examples of what COULD BE DONE. POOR people will have HELP buying their insurance! That's more than you have now, is it not?

Here's what she actully said:

she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."



She went on to say that this would apply to those who could afford insurance but chose not to purchase it.

Here's her plan. It might help to actually READ IT:


Hillary Clinton unveiled the third part of her plan to ensure that all Americans have affordable, quality health insurance. Building on her proposals to rein in costs and to insist on value and quality, her American Health Choices Plan will secure, simplify and ensure choice in health coverage for all Americans. This Plan covers every American - finally addressing the needs of the 47 million uninsured and the tens of millions of workers with coverage who fear they could be one pink slip away from losing their health coverage - with no overall increase in health spending or taxes. For those with health insurance, the plan builds on the current system to give businesses and their employees greater choice of health plans - including keeping the one they have - while lowering cost and improving quality. Specifically, the American Health Choices Plan will:

The American Health Choices Plan gives Americans the choice to preserve their existing coverage, while offering new choices to those with insurance, to the 47 million people in the United States without insurance, and the tens of millions more at risk of losing coverage.


* The Same Choice of Health Plan Options that Members of Congress Receive: Americans can keep their existing coverage or access the same menu of quality private insurance options that their Members of Congress receive through a new Health Choices Menu, established without any new bureaucracy as part of the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program (FEHBP). In addition to the broad array of private options that Americans can choose from, they will be offered the choice of a public plan option similar to Medicare.

* A Guarantee of Quality Coverage: The new array of choices offered in the Menu will provide benefits at least as good as the typical plan offered to Members of Congress, which includes mental health parity and usually dental coverage.

Americans who are satisfied with the coverage they have today can keep it, while benefiting from lower premiums and higher quality.


* Reducing Costs: By removing hidden taxes, stressing prevention and a focus on efficiency and modernization, the plan will improve quality and lower costs.

* Strengthening Security: The plan ensures that job loss or family illnesses will never lead to a loss of coverage or exorbitant costs.

* End to Unfair Health Insurance Discrimination: By creating a level-playing field of insurance rules across states and markets, the plan ensures that no American is denied coverage, refused renewal, unfairly priced out of the market, or forced to pay excessive insurance company premiums.

Relying on consumers or the government alone to fix the system has unintended consequences, like scaled-back coverage or limited choices. This plan ensures that all who benefit from the system share in the responsibility to fix its shortcomings.


* Insurance and Drug Companies: insurance companies will end discrimination based on pre-existing conditions or expectations of illness and ensure high value for every premium dollar; while drug companies will offer fair prices and accurate information.

* Individuals: will be required to get and keep insurance in a system where insurance is affordable and accessible.

* Providers: will work collaboratively with patients and businesses to deliver high-quality, affordable care.

* Employers: will help financing the system; large employers will be expected to provide health insurance or contribute to the cost of coverage: small businesses will receive a tax credit to continue or begin to offer coverage.

* Government: will ensure that health insurance is always affordable and never a crushing burden on any family and will implement reforms to improve quality and lower cost.

Senator Clinton’s plan will:


* Provide Tax Relief to Ensure Affordability: Working families will receive a refundable tax credit to help them afford high-quality health coverage.

* Limit Premium Payments to a Percentage of Income: The refundable tax credit will be designed to prevent premiums from exceeding a percentage of family income, while maintaining consumer price consciousness in choosing health plans.

* Create a New Small Business Tax Credit: To make it easier-not harder-for small businesses to create new jobs with health coverage, a new health care tax credit for small businesses will provide an incentive for job-based coverage.

* Strengthen Medicaid and CHIP: The Plan will fix the holes in the safety net to ensure that the most vulnerable populations receive affordable, quality care.

* Launch a Retiree Health Legacy Initiative: A new tax credit for qualifying private and public retiree health plans will offset a significant portion of catastrophic expenditures, so long as savings are dedicated to workers and competitiveness.



* Most Savings Come Through Lowering Spending Due to Quality and Modernization: Over half the savings come from the public savings generated from Senator Clinton’s broader agenda to modernize the heath systems and reduce wasteful health spending.

* A Net Tax Cut for American Taxpayers: The plan offers tens of millions of Americans a new tax credit to make premiums affordable-which more than offsets the increased revenues from the Plan’s provisions to limit the employer tax exclusion for health care and discontinue portions of the Bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000. Thus, the plan provides a net tax cut for American taxpayers.

* Making the Employer Tax Exclusion for Health Care Fairer: The plan protects the current exclusion from taxes of employer-provided health premiums, but limits the exclusion for the high-end portion of very generous plans for those making over $250,000.

[JFKgirl]

13. Obamas plan is better

Barack Obama's Plan
Quality, Affordable and Portable Coverage for All
Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features:
Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
Comprehensive benefits. The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.
Affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles.
Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.
Simplified paperwork and reined in health costs.
Easy enrollment. The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage.
Portability and choice. Participants in the new public plan and the National Health Insurance Exchange (see below) will be able to move from job to job without changing or jeopardizing their health care coverage.
Quality and efficiency. Participating insurance companies in the new public program will be required to report data to ensure that standards for quality, health information technology and administration are being met.
National Health Insurance Exchange: The Obama plan will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals who wish to purchase a private insurance plan. The Exchange will act as a watchdog group and help reform the private insurance market by creating rules and standards for participating insurance plans to ensure fairness and to make individual coverage more affordable and accessible. Insurers would have to issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status. The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency. The Exchange would evaluate plans and make the differences among the plans, including cost of services, public.
Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt.
Mandatory Coverage of Children: Obama will require that all children have health care coverage. Obama will expand the number of options for young adults to get coverage, including allowing young people up to age 25 to continue coverage through their parents' plans.
Expansion Of Medicaid and SCHIP: Obama will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs and ensure that these programs continue to serve their critical safety net function.
Flexibility for State Plans: Due to federal inaction, some states have taken the lead in health care reform. The Obama plan builds on these efforts and does not replace what states are doing. States can continue to experiment, provided they meet the minimum standards of the national plan.
Lower Costs by Modernizing The U.S. Health Care System
Reducing Costs of Catastrophic Illnesses for Employers and Their Employees: Catastrophic health expenditures account for a high percentage of medical expenses for private insurers. The Obama plan would reimburse employer health plans for a portion of the catastrophic costs they incur above a threshold if they guarantee such savings are used to reduce the cost of workers' premiums.
Helping Patients:
Support disease management programs. Seventy five percent of total health care dollars are spent on patients with one or more chronic conditions, such as diabetes, heart disease and high blood pressure. Obama will require that providers that participate in the new public plan, Medicare or the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) utilize proven disease management programs. This will improve quality of care, give doctors better information and lower costs.
Coordinate and integrate care. Over 133 million Americans have at least one chronic disease and these chronic conditions cost a staggering $1.7 trillion yearly. Obama will support implementation of programs and encourage team care that will improve coordination and integration of care of those with chronic conditions.
Require full transparency about quality and costs. Obama will require hospitals and providers to collect and publicly report measures of health care costs and quality, including data on preventable medical errors, nurse staffing ratios, hospital-acquired infections, and disparities in care. Health plans will also be required to disclose the percentage of premiums that go to patient care as opposed to administrative costs.
Ensuring Providers Deliver Quality Care:
Promote patient safety. Obama will require providers to report preventable medical errors and support hospital and physician practice improvement to prevent future occurrences.
Align incentives for excellence. Both public and private insurers tend to pay providers based on the volume of services provided, rather than the quality or effectiveness of care. Providers who see patients enrolled in the new public plan, the National Health Insurance Exchange, Medicare and FEHBP will be rewarded for achieving performance thresholds on outcome measures.
Comparative effectiveness research. Obama will establish an independent institute to guide reviews and research on comparative effectiveness, so that Americans and their doctors will have the accurate and objective information they need to make the best decisions for their health and well-being.
Tackle disparities in health care. Obama will tackle the root causes of health disparities by addressing differences in access to health coverage and promoting prevention and public health, both of which play a major role in addressing disparities. He will also challenge the medical system to eliminate inequities in health care through quality measurement and reporting, implementation of effective interventions such as patient navigation programs, and diversification of the health workforce.
Insurance reform. Obama will strengthen antitrust laws to prevent insurers from overcharging physicians for their malpractice insurance and will promote new models for addressing errors that improve patient safety, strengthen the doctor-patient relationship and reduce the need for malpractice suits.
Lowering Costs Through Investment in Electronic Health Information Technology Systems: Most medical records are still stored on paper, which makes it hard to coordinate care, measure quality or reduce medical errors and which costs twice as much as electronic claims. Obama will invest $10 billion a year over the next five years to move the U.S. health care system to broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems, including electronic health records, and will phase in requirements for full implementation of health IT. Obama will ensure that patients' privacy is protected.
Lowering Costs by Increasing Competition in the Insurance and Drug Markets: The insurance business today is dominated by a small group of large companies that has been gobbling up their rivals. There have been over 400 health care mergers in the last 10 years, and just two companies dominate a full third of the national market. These changes were supposed to make the industry more efficient, but instead premiums have skyrocketed by over 87 percent.
Barack Obama will prevent companies from abusing their monopoly power through unjustified price increases. His plan will force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care instead of keeping exorbitant amounts for profits and administration. His new National Health Exchange will help increase competition by insurers.
Lower prescription drug costs. The second-fastest growing type of health expenses is prescription drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are selling the exact same drugs in Europe and Canada but charging Americans more than double the price. Obama will allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S. Obama will also repeal the ban that prevents the government from negotiating with drug companies, which could result in savings as high as $30 billion. Finally, Obama will work to increase the use of generic drugs in Medicare, Medicaid, and FEHBP and prohibit big name drug companies from keeping generics out of markets.
Fight for New Initiatives
Advance the Biomedical Research Field: As a result of biomedical research the prevention, early detection and treatment of diseases such as cancer and heart disease is better today than any other time in history. Barack Obama has consistently supported funding for the national institutes of health and the national science foundation. Obama strongly supports investments in biomedical research, as well as medical education and training in health-related fields, because it provides the foundation for new therapies and diagnostics. Obama has been a champion of research in cancer, mental health, health disparities, global health, women and children's health, and veterans' health. As president, Obama will strengthen funding for biomedical research, and better improve the efficiency of that research by improving coordination both within government and across government/private/non-profit partnerships. An Obama administration will ensure that we translate scientific progress into improved approaches to disease prevention, early detection and therapy that is available for all Americans.
Fight AIDS Worldwide. There are 40 million people across the planet infected with HIV/AIDS. As president, Obama will continue to be a global leader in the fight against AIDS. Obama believes in working across party lines to combat this epidemic and recently joined Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) at a large California evangelical church to promote greater investment in the global AIDS battle.
Support Americans with Disabilities: As a former civil rights lawyer, Barack Obama knows firsthand the importance of strong protections for minority communities in our society. Obama is committed to strengthening and better enforcing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) so that future generations of Americans with disabilities have equal rights and opportunities. Obama believes we must restore the original legislative intent of the ADA in the wake of court decisions that have restricted the interpretation of this landmark legislation.

Barack Obama is also committed to ensuring that disabled Americans receive Medicaid and Medicare benefits in a low-cost, effective and timely manner. Recognizing that many individuals with disabilities rely on Medicare, Obama worked with Senator Ken Salazar (D-CO) to urge the department of health and human services to provide clear and reliable information on the Medicare prescription drug benefit and to ensure that the Medicare recipients were protected from fraudulent claims by marketers and drug plan agents.
Improve Mental Health Care. Mental illness affects approximately one in five American families. The National Alliance on Mental Illness estimates that untreated mental illnesses cost the U.S. more than $100 billion per year. As president, Obama will support mental health parity so that coverage for serious mental illnesses are provided on the same terms and conditions as other illnesses and diseases.
Protect Our Children from Lead Poisoning. More than 430,000 American children have dangerously high levels of lead in their blood. Lead can cause irreversible brain damage, learning disabilities, behavioral problems, and, at very high levels, seizures, coma and death. As president, Obama will protect children from lead poisoning by requiring that child care facilities be lead-safe within five years.
Reduce Risks of Mercury Pollution. More than five million women of childbearing age have high levels of toxic mercury in their blood, and approximately 630,000 newborns are born at risk every year. Barack Obama has a plan to significantly reduce the amount of mercury that is deposited in oceans, lakes, and rivers, which in turn would reduce the amount of mercury in fish.
Support Americans with Autism. More than one million Americans have autism, a complex neurobiological condition that has a range of impacts on thinking, feeling, language, and the ability to relate to others. As diagnostic criteria broaden and awareness increases, more cases of autism have been recognized across the country. Barack Obama believes that we can do more to help autistic Americans and their families understand and live with autism. He has been a strong supporter of more than $1 billion in federal funding for autism research on the root causes and treatments, and he believes that we should increase funding for the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act to truly ensure that no child is left behind.

More than anything, autism remains a profound mystery with a broad spectrum of effects on autistic individuals, their families, loved ones, the community, and education and health care systems. Obama believes that the government and our communities should work together to provide a helping hand to autistic individuals and their families.

[Guaranteed]

15. Oh, I see- according to HER. And, when, according to HER, I can

afford it, THEN she gets to reach into MY paycheck, take MY money, and hand it over to the insurance company fatcats- just so they can turn me down for coverage later.

Sorry, my mistake. I'm sure she'll be very understanding, though, as you KNOW that so many of these people who don't have insurance really CAN afford the hundreds of dollars a month it costs.

[MethuenProgressive]

8. "apply only to workers who can afford health coverage but refuse to buy it"

You're addressing the story as told by ObamaBots, and not what she really said herself.
You've been had.

[surfermaw]

10. Why shouldn't we pay for H.C everyone that is , Some of us are paying for everyone's

[Guaranteed]

18. You're missing the point. This is private insurance vs. single payer-

PLUS a mandate.

Clinton is FORCING us to give money to inefficient, for-profit insurance companies- who just happen to be her largest contributors.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

11. That's what I'm talking about!

Mandated private insurance is the worst of all possible worlds. Politically stupid to boot.

[BlackVelvet04]

16. You guys really are a bunch of children.....

you want the government to make sure you have health care but you don't want to be responsible to anyone for anything.

WAAAAAAAAAH.

[stevietheman]

23. The only children are ones supporting the garnish-thief Hillary. n/t

n/t

[BootinUp]

24. You prefer Obamas FINES then for people who refuse

to cover their children right?

[creeksneakers2]

19. Do you understand that what you are worried about isn't happening?

Hillary offers a choice of a government plan. You don't have to support private insurance companies.

The real facts keep getting posted over and over but some people keep insisting they are being forced to buy private insurance. That's just not true and I don't know why it keeps getting posted.

[Guaranteed]

20. The government plan only pools the participants' money to give

to the private insurers.

It's the same thing.

[creeksneakers2]

26. No. It isn't

The government plan will be similar to Medicare.

[Guaranteed]

27. Yeah, it is. I saw that "similar to Medicare" quote you guys are

relying on and it's a distortion. All she's talking about doing is pooling these people together to be enrolled with private insurance. Note that she also speaks of "no new bureaucracy."

If she had an actual plan for the needy that would be administered and paid for directly by the U.S. government, trust me, you'd know. She'd let you know in no uncertain terms.

[Cleita]

22. Here..here!

:thumbsup:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

28. Nail. Head. Hammered. K and R. Single payer or nothing! nt

[Garbo 2004]

31. Well then it will be nothing, since single payer won't get through Congress. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. HR676 will if we have enough Democrats to get it through.

78 co-sponsors in the House already.

[Garbo 2004]

35. Think all Dems will support it in both houses? And will have enough votes in the Senate, where Repub

votes are still needed? You have more faith than I do in our pols. Hope you are right.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

36. Not at first.

But with enough of a Dem majority, a sympathetic Democratic Prez (either Hillary or Barack would fit the bill if they sensed the political wind), and massive public pressure (poll after poll shows the majority of Americans support single payer and would pay more in taxes for it) it could be done. It won't happen right away, but we need to put the kibosh on these insurance company boondoggles that both Clinton and Obama are proposing if we want to see it happen.

[annie1]

29. How else do you get insurance? do you have some secret insurance plan...

i don't know about that you don't get insured by coporations when you don't qualify for medicaid? please let us know this secret plan. My insurance will be cigna in a few months. it's a corp. I'll pay them $80 a month. What's your insurance?

[Garbo 2004]

30. You do know that the Clinton plan basically is the Edwards plan? Or do you?

And both plans provide for a gov't plan that could "bring in the massive buying power of" the gov't to reduce costs? Oh, and you couldn't be "turned down for coverage."

It ain't single payer, but Edwards thought it was a beginning to have a lower cost public plan as a competitive alternative to private insurance since the health insurance companies would not allow themselves to be immediately put out of business in the immediate future.

[OzarkDem]

32. Get a grip

You're making a fool of yourself. If you can't bother to do some research and discuss health care reform with some intelligence and objectivity, then you may want to consider focusing on a topic that you know something about.

[MethuenProgressive]

37. - 1

Neg rec

[Renew Deal]

38. Hillary's plan is a massive give away to the insurance companies.

Paying her masters.