This Obama plagiarism thing seems to have legs....

[Greenwood]

I will support either Obama or Hillary but even the strongest Obama supporter has got to admit that Obama has gotten AMAZINGLY GLOWING PRESS COVERAGE. If Obama farted the media would swoon and claim it showed he cares or something. Hillary has been pounded constantly.

This thing could be really, really big.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. You wouldn't happen to be from Nigeria, would you?

[InsultComicDog]

30. Now that Obama is the front runner

he will be attacked by RNC talking points daily and repeatedly, whether they have any merit or not.

It's what they do...

[C_U_L8R]

2. Yeah a really really big pile of BS

give it up

[tabatha]

3. Plagiarism is unathorized use of someone else' work.

Obama and Patrick exchange ideas, and are authorized to use each other's stuff.

Clinton used "Fired up, ready to go" and it was not authorized.

[amborin]

41. plagiarism is defined fairly broadly

that's why every uni has detailed info on what constitutes plagiarism....and why it requires all to familiarize themselves with the definition

obama committed plagiarism

using another's ideas words, work, material, without permission aforehand and without CREDITING the true author

ideas are particularly subject to issues of plagiarism....so easy to get ideas off others and pass them off as one's own

this is not to be taken lightly

[unblock]

44. i can forgive this comment if you're an academic

but it really doesn't apply to the political arena.

up to a point, politicians, orators, statesmen, etc. riff on each others' ideas and life words, ESPECIALLY if working in conjunction with each other. hell, the entire republican noise machine is predicated on many seemingly disparate pundits echoing the same meme.

even scientists, artists, musicians, etc. build on the ideas and themes of others and may or may not credit them. maybe in an interview years later, they say they were "influenced by" the beatles or picasso or shakespeare.

academics have the HIGHEST standard for plagiarism of any discipline, and politics the lowest.

oh, an patrick and obama work together and patrick has stated that he feels no need for credit.

[amborin]

47. okay

coming from academia, it's unacceptable

but--biden was skewered years ago for same.....

it's only b/c of his personal tragedies and aneurysm issues that he was even "allowed" to continue in politics

[Capn Sunshine]

46. WRONG- the author said it was OK.

This was, like everything we will see now coming out from the Klintoon Kartoon Kamp,
another piece of mud flung in a mad attempt to gain some ground or traction.

No "maybe you should consider Hillary because she says this"
Or "Hillary is the best choice because..."

Just accusations and slander, as the remaining masks of civility drop away to make room for the gooon squad.

I hope you guys over at 44 have a decent apology prepared for all this bullcrap post-primary.

[amborin]

48. duplicate, sorry

sorry, duplicate

[amborin]

49. said it was ok

after the fact....to avoid a conflagration

of course he'd say it's okay.....

[Capn Sunshine]

62. Permission negates the concept of Plagarism

as I said before, who would think this will have any meaningful impact on anything?

It's just ridiculous to see the wasted energy here.

[amborin]

67. not post hoc

permission...it does not negate the plagiarism

plagiarism is failing to attribute

obama connned the audience into thinking the ideas, words were his own creation, he failed to say, "as my buddy patrick said,"

it misleads and cons

doesn't matter if he got permission

which, as far as i can see, is post hoc anyway

[unblock]

72. there's no misleading. a politician's words are often not his own.

did jfk say thanks to ted sorensen every time he wrote a speech?

gimme a break. an academic must be very clear because personal reputations and tenure and degrees are at stake based on exactly who contributed what. hence the high standard.

a politician brings to office an entire team and collective agenda. he rides into office with the support of allies, staff, volunteers and NO ONE should be surprised if his speeches were written with the help of others, nor should anyone feel offended if he lifted ideas or words from an ally.


now, biden, if i recall correctly, cited some kind of personal history, not just some poetic phrases. telling a story about someone else's past is VERY different from using an interesting phrase.

[JCMach1]

58. No, it is very narrowly defined in the Academic world...

and the Legal world, and the political world...! Obama did not attribute.

[JCMach1]

55. I call BS, Plagiarism involves not properly citing, or sourcing words, research, ideas

that are not properly your own whether you have permission, or not.


My students try that line of argument all the time... But sir, my friend let me use his paper... Legally, that is plagiarism.


You are dead wrong on that score.

[Avalux]

4. No legs. Not really really big.

Patrick endorsed Obama and has stated he shared the text of his speech with Obama's campaign. This sort of thing is done in politics all the time.

[JimGinPA]

5. Yeah, Legs Like A Worm

:rofl:

[adabfree]

7. lol

:rofl:

[yourguide]

6. Been watching MSNBC most of the day

havent seen anything.

[K Gardner]

20. Because there hasn't been anything :-) No legs. But HRC can HOPE !

[Drunken Irishman]

22. CNN here, they're talking about the Illinois gunman.

[yourguide]

61. MSNBC running the story now

N/T

[MethuenProgressive]

8. The Boston Globe is a well respected source - and DUbamas loved then when the endorsed Obama.

Shoe's on the other foot now that the News division has done some investigating.

[adabfree]

11. keep hope alive huh? lol

Hillary camp is quite DESPERATE....

[MethuenProgressive]

16. The Boston "We Endorse Obama" Globe = Hillary Camp? You're new, right?

The Boston Globe, which ran Whitewater/Monica/Impeachment above the fold every day for 2 1/2 years is in the "Clinton Camp"? I hope your head injury heals soon no longer troubles you.

[adabfree]

33. uh huh

i've been around long enough to know you're bitter

:rofl:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

28. they leaked the pseudonews story because of "it takes a village" issue.

ghostwritten! for $120,000 and she fails to even credit the actual author. That's so nice Hillary.

[MethuenProgressive]

66. Hillary "leaked" the story printed in this morning's Globe?

You might want to call a friend to come sit with you. You have a friend, yes?

[MNDemNY]

9. This one has wheels and some video.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4641977:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Crooked Moon]

10. it has certainly been sufficient...

... to be on the morning news shows, in the new york times, CNN, blogs of all political persuasions.

it's been sufficient for obama to defend himself against it by releasing the "she did it too" press release.

[Greenwood]

15. Exactly. This is not going away*

.

[CoffeeCat]

12. Here come the meme-pounding weasels!!!

Pound, pound, pound, pound!!

Pound that daily meme!

Pound, pound, pound, pound!!

Pound it Hillary team!!!


Yesterday it was the handshake!

Now it's stolen words!

Pound, pound, pound pound!

Make your lies be heard!


Yeah! :bounce: :toast: :party: Whooooo hoooooooo! Yeeeeee Hawwwwwww!

[Blue-Jay]

13. Does it have arms and a head, too?

[islandmkl]

14. yeah, this is f****** HUGE....among hrc posters/readers/forwarders

[truedelphi]

17. Obama is already starting to take some knocks

I saw a NBC report on his attempting to bring about relief for people living in areas in Illinois where there were Nuclear material releases (Due to the nuke power plants)

Obama wanted a mandatory warning system put into effect to notify residents

The bill's language got watered down as it went through the various stages. Nothing shocking about that - a junior Senator tries to right a wrong, and is subverted through the legislative process.

But by the time the NBC report concluded the report, you'd have thought that O was bought off or something.

With one "activist" saying again and again how O didn't help.

[rox63]

18. Obama has Patrick's permission to use the line

They are long-time friends. I believe one of Patrick's former speech-writers now works for Obama's campaign.

[amborin]

43. after the fact

of course he'll now give "permission"

point is--


Obama committed plagiarism

Obama has NO EXCUSE

[JackORoses]

65. this is it? this is all the Hillarites have left?

Patrick told Obama to use it.

It's no different than having someone help you write a speech.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[K Gardner]

21. I predict that's where most of the Hilliltes will end up after their candidate either loses, drops

out or is forced out. They certainly won't be happy here after they've cut a path of destruction and slander through the party.

[bellasgrams]

37. BO and his supporters have divided this party. They actually

believe he can do no wrong. They swoon over his words, which are put in his mouth by a speech writer. He's a complete phone. Take his advisers and speech writers away and you've got nothing. Yet they condemn everything Hillary does. The Repbs won't be as bad as DU. When BO flubs they blame it on Hillary everytime.

[MessiahRp]

More like even they see the idiocy of these weak ass claims

It's too bad that Hillary who claims to be of more substance on issues knows her stances on those issues are all wrong and won't win her this primary so she has to get down in the gutter and pray that dirty politics gives her a chance.

What a slimeball she is.

Rp

[Renew Deal]

38. You would know.

I bet you spend most of your time there.

[Vilis Veritas]

23. Really?

Man, I was waiting for Greenwood to tell me that this was true. Now I can ignore all other aspects of reality and just focus on the legs...

Tag :sarcasm: your it...

[thoughtcrime1984]

24. This is pathetic

Enjoy Johnny McCain as your President.

[babylonsister]

25. You must have missed this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4642975

[jackson_dem]

26. One day story. It is St. Obama (the senator from msm). If it were *hypothetically* Joe Biden...

[Perry Logan]

27. I count 3,691 legs.

[Blue-Jay]

29. You might consider an exterminator.

[Political Heretic]

31. Congratulations, you've earned an auto-flame.

==========================================================================
THIS IS A FLAME
==========================================================================

Dear (Check all that apply)

( )Hillbot ( )Obamite ( )Disruptor (X) Dumbass
( )Misogynist ( )Racist ( )Homophobe ( ) Elitist
( )Xenophobe ( )Fundie ( )Warmonger ( )Jerk
( )Moron / Moran ( )Hate monger ( )Cheese-eating Surrender Monkey

You are being flamed because (Check all that apply)

( ) you posted an unnecessary message trying to explain yourself
( ) you posted a deliberately misleading and/or disingenuous article
(X) you took an otherwise benign article or issue and spun it into something ridiculous
(X) you purposefully twisted, distorted, or spun something out of context
(X) you continued a boring, useless, stupid thread or topic
(X) you perpetuated a deceitful, inaccurate or downright bullshit talking point
( ) you are boring, useless, and stupid
(X) you are a moron
( ) you have implied that every state your candidate doesn’t win doesn’t matter
( ) you have implied that every poll your candidate doesn’t lead doesn’t matter
( ) you have implied that every media source that doesn't love your candidate does not matter
( ) you have implied that any elected official who doesn't endorse your candidate is a hack
( ) you whined because you were flamed
( ) you whined because somebody told you the truth
( ) you posted some false claim that's been debunked six times before.
( ) you are acting like a jerk
( ) you reposted a useless message yet AGAIN
( ) you are too stupid to learn how to quote (correctly)
( ) you have adopted the Pee-Wee Herman flame rebuttal approach

To recant, you must (Check all that apply)

(X) actually post a message that makes sense
( ) make an honest attempt to go pass English Comp 101
( ) make an honest attempt to pull your head out of your ass
( ) discover the concept of critical thinking and learn how to apply it
( ) banish yourself to the Lounge for 24 hours of chill-the-fuck-out therapy
( ) say something nice about the other candidate
( ) Shut the fuck up for once
( ) Stop spewing hate and smears like republicans do
( ) give up all your worldly possessions and become a Tibetan monk
(X) hang yourself by the penis for 72 hours (dental floss may be used)
( ) try to learn something

Thank you for the time you have taken to read this, and please desist from
the offending behavior that led to this flame.

==========================================================================
END FLAME
==========================================================================

[enki23]

32. so did the swift boat assholes, go hillary, right?

this is dangerously close to her last straw for this camel. i'm already to the point where i am having a very, very hard time picturing myself bothering to get out and vote for her come november, should she be the nominee. the more of this underhanded shit her campaign pulls, the harder it is for me to contemplate. that's what this scorched-earth bullshit accomplishes. she should be deeply ashamed.

[smoogatz]

34. It's HUGH!!!111!!!!!1

Late Update: Jake Tapper reports on the same conference call I referenced above:

I asked Clinton communications director Howard Wolfson and Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass, if they could assure the public that neither Clinton nor McGovern has ever done what Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, did when he used the rhetoric of Gov. Deval Patrick without footnoting him.
They would not.

In fact, Wolfson seemed to say it wouldn't be as big a deal if it were discovered that Clinton had "lifted" such language.

"Sen. Clinton is not running on the strength of her rhetoric," Wolfson said.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/178957.php

And that's really all you need to know about how really, really big this story is. Welcome to DU.

[Tom Rinaldo]

35. There is an element of "Live by the pen, Die by the pen" at play in this

So much of the positive media buzz about Obama has centered on his dazzling oratory skills, about his uplifting and powerful speeches and his amazing way with words, that there is almost an inevitable reverse focus now on whether Obama can take full credit for those speeches, and for those words, as his own.

It's the other side of the coin. Obama has run his campaign much less on his record of accomplishments (with the ironic exception being his much noted powerful 2002 speech against pending war with Iraq) than on his ability to inspire, and ability to lead and unify America through his ability to inspire with words. Therefor the mechanics of how Obama inspires with words almost inevitably become newsworthy.

[Peregrine Took]

36. My head is SPINNING from all the verbiage being twisted into pretzels by

the kool aid drinkin' Obamabots today.

Between the Rezcko deal (I never buy a house without getting advice from Tony)and the plagiarism problem - those poor folks have their work cut out for them today.

I hope they can take a wee nap between calls to Air America/the Jones Network and internet postings.

[amborin]

39. it's PLAGIARISM

using another's words or material without crediting them---that's the definition of plagiarism

you can get thrown out of uni for this same act

of course it's easy to say, when caught, "it's no big deal," as Obama has said

but IT IS A BIG DEAL

it's PLAGIARISM

it stinks

it bodes badly

the media skewered Biden for the same thing.....

[zulchzulu]

54. When Patrick said Obama could use his phrases, it's NOT PLAGIARISM

Deal with it.

[1776Forever]

40. This Clinton Plagiarism thing seems to have legs.......And there crawling!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4642975

Clinton Stole The Phrase “Fired Up And Ready To Go” From Obama. “We are fired up and we are ready to go because we know America is ready for change and the process starts right here in Iowa.” In Davenport, Iowa, those words escaped the barriers of a tired Hillary Clinton’s teeth. Without irony. That phrase is associated with Barack Obama. Obama borrows it from a woman in South Carolina who helped remind him what was important in life. It’s the signature, in fact, of Obama’s close.

Clinton Stole Rhetoric From Obama And Said She Wanted “Bring Our Country Together” And How She’s Not Running For President Of The Sates That Voted For Democrats. “One other thing about those Clinton events yesterday: The woman is not at all bashful about stealing from her rivals. Between the two events, I counted six rhetorical turns I’ve heard other candidates employ: She talked about goals ‘I hope will bring our country together,’ a la Barack Obama. In response to a question about excessive partisanship, she talked about how she’s not running to be president of the states that voted for Democrats, she’s running to be president of the United States. This closely resembles Obama’s ‘I don’t want to pit red America against blue America. I want to be the President of the United States of America.’”

Clinton, Stealing Obama’s Line, “Yes, We Can” Said That Obama Was The “No We Can’t” Candidate And Said In Contrast, “Yes We Can.” Stealing a line, Clinton casts Obama as the “no we can’t” candidate, and herself as saying “yes, we can.” Obama is the “Yes We Can” candidate of the 2008 presidential race, an Elvis-like presence riding a wave of popular enthusiasm unseen in U.S. politics in many years. Democratic strategist Liz Chadderdon said Obama is sweeping Americans off their feet.”It’s this incredibly moving speech about how it’s time for Americans to turn inward and fix America’s problems. You listen to it and you say ‘Yes.’ Not that what’s coming out of her mouth isn’t solid, it just doesn’t have the same emotional connection that we’re feeling with him,” she said

10/30/07: Clinton Said “We’ve Got To Turn The Page On George Bush And Dick Cheney.” Clinton, speaking about her electability said “In a perverse way, I think that the Republicans and their constant obsession with me demonstrate clearly that they obviously think that I am communicating effectively about what I will do as president. I am trying to do that because it matters greatly. We’ve got to turn the page on George Bush and Dick Cheney. In fact, we have to throw the whole book away.”

5/2/07: Obama Gave “Turn the Page”-Themed Speech To The California Democratic Convention. Speaking to the California Democratic Convention, Obama said, “I’m running for President because the time for the can’t-do, won’t-do, won’t-even-try style of politics is over. It’s time to turn the page…It’s what I learned as a state Senator in Illinois. That you can turn the page on old debates; that it’s possible to compromise so long as you as you never compromise your principles; and that so long as we’re willing to listen to each other, we can assume the best in people instead of the worst…Democrats of California, it’s time to turn the page…It’s time to turn the page on education…It’s time to turn the page on energy…But most of all, we have to turn the page on this disaster in Iraq…We will bring our troops home. It’s time to turn the page…California, if you want a new kind of politics, it’s time to turn the page. If you want an end to the old divisions, and the stale debates, and the score-keeping and the name-calling, it’s time to turn the page…If you want health care for every American and a world-class education for all our children; if you want energy independence and an end to this war in Iraq; if you believe America is still that last, best hope of Earth, then it’s time to turn the page…It’s time to turn the page for hope. It’s time to turn the page for justice. It is time to turn the page and write the next chapter in the great American story. Let’s begin the work. Let’s do this together. Let’s turn that page.”

http://thepage.time.com/obama-release-on-clintons-languge/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rweVOO-fhug

*********************

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JimboDem]

42. OMG We Are Screwn !!!111!!!

:sarcasm:

[THUNDER HANDS]

45. ...

[Occam Bandage]

50. Might it even be HUGH?

[bowens43]

51. Hillary gets what she has earned.

She has no integrity, everyone knows it.

[FrenchieCat]

52. These accusation will backlash against Hillary Clinton.....

as it shows the amount of jealousy and pettyness in that campaign.

I'm starting to not feel sorry for what she will rip.....and there will be plenty.

[zulchzulu]

53. ..except it's NOT PLAGIARISM

Obama and Patrick used each others phrases. That makes the accusation of plagiarism mute.

"Plagiarism is the practice of claiming or implying original authorship of (or incorporating material from) someone else's written or creative work, in whole or in part, into one's own without adequate acknowledgement."

[cottonseed]

56. The Hillary Truthers are really pushing this one.

Too bad there's nothing here.

[CarlWoodward]

57. Anybody

The only people who care about this "scandal" are those who would have voted for Hillary anyway.

I just can't see this swaying any voters.

[tekisui]

59. Only some voters from Hillary to Obama.

Slinging shit doesn't help one's cause.

It just shows she CAN'T win on her merits, she has to go negative. Hillary, thanks for the latest bump in Obama's polls!

[AZBlue]

60. Only on DU among Hillary supporters - more hypocrisy from them.

It's ok when HRC does it, but not when BO does it. That's their logic for everything.

[Moochy]

63. Yeah, it has Legs like this dog

As James Carville would likely say in his patented Faux-Cajun-Patois "That dawg wont hunt!"

[LSK]

64. I guess you missed all of last year where Hillary was already the nominee

[no name no slogan]

68. How do you figure? It's not on the front page of the major news sites

In fact, the only place I see it even mentioned is on the blogs.

Joe/Jane Sixpack doesn't give two shits about who politicians steal their speeches from.

[Greenwood]

69. Watch the news tonight.....

Obama has gotten a free pass for too long.

[no name no slogan]

70. This is barely a blip on the radar

Kosovo declared independence, and most of the world recognized it. THAT is newsworthy.

Musharraf's party gets its ass handed to it in Pakistan's parliamentary elections. THAT is newsworthy.

More details about the NIU shootings come out. THAT is newsworthy.

Obama and Clinton running even in Texas. THAT is newsworthy.

Obama cribs a couple lines from a guy one of his people used to work for? :boring:

[VotesForWomen]

71. correct; and the media can take that free pass away at any time. nt

[RamboLiberal]

73. Hillary needs better research - Obama in December 2007

"But you know in the end, don’t vote your fears. I’m stealing this line from my buddy (Massachusetts Gov.) Deval Patrick who stole a whole bunch of lines from me when he ran for the governorship, but it’s the right one, don’t vote your fears, vote your aspirations. Vote what you believe."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/obama-scoffs-th.html

Guess he has to say it every f'in time. Maybe he needs to identify quotes from MLK, Thomas Jefferson, and FDR for the dumber Americans before he's accused of plagiarizing them.

[Little Star]

74. He is so authentically inspiring. n/t

[protect our future]

75. Why Obama is suddenly being accused of plagerism:

The plagerism issue is to lure Wisconsin voters to Hillary. The plagerism question can be debunked, sure. But since the Wisconsin primary is tomorrow, if Hillary people (and the media) can make a big enough stink about it -- or a big enough stink about anything whatsoever that may put a question mark in the minds of prospective Obama voters -- they hope to win the Wisconsin primary and who cares about what happens the day after, once Wisconsin is a done deal.

It's a typical trick. How shameful that Democrats are using it.

[avrdream]

76. I don't think it will be really, really big by itself.

I do think it points out the start of the Republicans bashing BO because they believe he will be their opponent.

[Bonobo]

77. Kicked for the humor of it.