If Obama gets the nomination, what about Tammy Baldwin for Veep?

[ruggerson]

A woman from a key midwestern state.

A Hillary supporter, thus Obama could heal the rift.

An exciting choice, a new face. A commitment to change.

A staunch liberal.

She voted against the IWR.

She voted to impeach Cheney and Gonzales.

Serves on Judiciary and Energy and Commerce.

She has national security credibility. Serves on the Crime, Terrorism and Homeland security subcommittee.

A prolific legislator - a tireless advocate for veterans, women, children, the disabled and farmers.

What's the downside?

[tokenlib]

1. We need a national security, military VP

..I want to see GOP heads explode with a General on the ticket...

[hedgehog]

36. Why? I say that WWII has been over for over 50 years. Enough of the boys with their

shiny toys. It's about time we addressed the real threats out there: pollution, global warming, energy crisis, etc.

[MadBadger]

38. We need a Latino Governor from a Western State who likes to state his resume

[Bucky]

60. Gee, can you be a little more specific? How do propose finding....

How do propose finding someone with those exact qualities?

Hmmm, but while we're at it, it probably needs to be somebody who's pretty tall...

[JerseygirlCT]

51. I'm with you. Our current problems, including the mess in Iraq

aren't going to be solved by the military. What we need are people with minds flexible enough to look at the whole picture, in geopolitical terms, in human terms.

[tokenlib]

69. Because we have to get in office first...

Then we set straight the priorities to take on the issues you mentioned!

[shraby]

2. The downside is that Obama most likely

already has his v.p. in mind. Someone he knows he can work with and trust. People can throw out as many names as they want, but Obama holds the cards.

[maddiejoan]

3. I'd support it.

It's one of the few choices I've heard that could make me enthusiastic about supporting Obama.

[MadBadger]

4. You know perfectly well why the duo would never get elected.

Though let me state, I would love it, but theyd have a shitty time of getting elected.

[ruggerson]

5. Why?

[BadgerLaw2010]

10. Tammy is openly gay.

[ruggerson]

14. Openly gay women can't be Veep?

I thought this was all about hope and change.

[maddiejoan]

15. So?

Why should that present a problem?

[MadBadger]

16. Exactly. A ticket with a Black man and an Openly gay female is doomed from the outset

[maddiejoan]

19. So The Audacity of Hope

stops at Gay.

Thought as much.

[MadBadger]

22. Fuckin trap, thats what this has turn into

No sense zone.

[ruggerson]

25. If we're about real change

then let's be about real change. Don't you think?

[maddiejoan]

27. answer my question.

Does The Audacity of Hope stop at "Gay"?

[MadBadger]

30. Of course it doesnt, and if you out here trying to paint me as some kind of homophobe, just STOP

[maddiejoan]

33. Did I say you were a homophobe?

I didn't even imply it.

But why dismiss Baldwin as a veep choice out of hand?

[rox63]

63. It's about as likely as Clinton picking Barney Frank as her running mate

Do you think that would be a politically wise thing to do at this time in our history? Would not doing it make her a homophobe?

I would love to see an openly gay prez or veep. But I don't think it's a winning ticket in this country at this time. It's unfortunate, but true.

[ruggerson]

39. Wouldn't Baldwin be a courageous choice

and wouldn't she bring even more new people into the process?

[rodeodance]

47. oh yes she would---Question is---would BO have his picture taken with her?

[rodeodance]

45. HA HA HA----maybe Obama should have his pic taken with an openly gay person next time?

[ruggerson]

48. To be fair, Obama refused to have his picture taken with Newsom, who is straight

but is a figure very associated with same sex marriage rights. So it's not accurate to say Obama doesn't want his picture taken with gay people. He just didn't want his picture taken with Newsom back when Obama was running for the Senate in '04. Illinois has a very conservative southern part of the state, and Obama made a calculated political decision.

[rodeodance]

50. i know that------but lame.

[rodeodance]

17. and we know Obama would not want his picture taken with her!!

[hedgehog]

41. Huh. And that is relevant, how? nt

[BadgerLaw2010]

55. Are you braindead, or do you just not know anything about the Midwest?

Democrats in Presidential elections do not win Midwestern states outside of Illinois by a margin that would enable you to put an openly gay and otherwise very liberal individual on a ticket for the Presidency. That will absolutely cost you a few % of the vote, at least, and will thus cost you several states. Baldwin would probably lose you Wisconsin, not win it. She is not statewide material both because of her general Madison politics and her open sexual orientation.

Wisconsin voters passed an anti gay marriage amendment to the Constitution, after all. The amendment got creamed in Madision, but that did not matter.

The Midwest is both a good deal more conservative than the Coasts and far more contested. Not a good combination for running a very liberal lesbian. And if you don't win here, you will not win.

[hedgehog]

65. I don't know, I just wonder what would happen if someone stood up and said

"so, what?" about a candidate's sexual orientation.

I was having a hypothetical discussion several years ago with one of my kids about whether I would want someone who is openly gay teaching them at the high school. Then I realized that in fact, Mr. So-and-so was openly gay and was teaching my kids. So I realized "huh, I really don't give a damn." Then I asked, "just who are all these jerks giving Mr. So-and-so a hard time? He's a good teacher."

Obama is attractive because he calls us to reaffirm our basic values. One of our most precious values is the right to be left alone.

[ruggerson]

67. So you don't believe in the "fierce urgency of now"?

that's not something we should believe in?

[JerseygirlCT]

52. Is she? Didn't know that.

Learn something new every day. Cool!

[Bucky]

61. That's probably why she was mentioned

[cali]

6. She's not well enough known

She doesn't have nearly enough experience, she's too young.

[maddiejoan]

7. That's what they said about Obama

:shrug:

The Audacity of Hope!

[ruggerson]

11. She has more experience than Obama

and has been reelected the last few times in landslides.

[MadBadger]

13. Well we arent exactly a bastion for conservatism in Dane County.

[hfojvt]

24. Her district is not all Dane County

When she was first elected it included Richland County too, and I met her in the metropolis of Hub City. Seriously, that was one of the reasons I voted against Paul Soglin. As a candidate he acted like his district outside of Madtown didn't even exist.

[cali]

46. She doesn't have experience the way Clark or Richardson do.

Baldwin has only been in the House for 8 years. She's not really from a swing state. She has no foreign policy experience. She does not, in short, have what Obama needs in any important category.

[GoreVidalIsGod]

8. Honestly, that would be a dream come true. Unfortunately...

the American public at large seems willing to overcome hurdles but only one at a time. Maybe two.

An Obama/Baldwin ticket would have the three of the four big firsts all at once - black, woman, and gay. The only first missing is one of them being atheist.

[tokenlib]

18. You are correct...

Thus Barack needs to pick the VP who can do the most to get him elected in November. He needs someone to help best neutralize the perceived McCain national security strength. The VP pick has to be political expediency...

[maddiejoan]

32. okay!

She has national security credibility. Serves on the Crime, Terrorism and Homeland security subcommittee.

[zabet]

9. "She voted to impeach Cheney...."

Obama sees no need to impeach.

[rodeodance]

21. but also...

how would they stand side by side--when he will not have his picture taken with a gay person

[anonymous171]

12. Sounds good.

But Obama will need someone with lots of foreign policy experience, since McCain campaigns solely on that issue.
Otherwise, sounds like a good choice to me.

[hulklogan]

20. Yes yes yes I would even donate to that campaign n/t

[terrya]

23. Well...and it pains me for saying this...but she's openly lesbian.

God...I hate myself for saying this...as a gay man.

I would be thrilled if a gay man or a lesbian were chosen as VP.

But realistically...politically and otherwise...we're not anywhere near ready for that.

[bicentennial_baby]

26. And I fucking wish that we were....

x(

:pals:

[terrya]

34. Yeah.

:-(.

It will be at least 20 years for something like that. A generation.

Now...on the other hand...I think we're ready for a gay or lesbian Cabinet Secretary. If...let's say....speaking hypothetically.. :-)President Obama wants to make a bold choice...Tammy Baldwin or Barney Frank would be great additions to an Obama Cabinet. Hypothetically speaking, of course. :-)

:pals:

[bicentennial_baby]

43. I would freaking love that!! Brilliant idea!

:bounce:

:pals:

[ruggerson]

29. Why not?

[terrya]

44. I genuinely hate bringing these things up.

Someone up thread said that Obama, if he's the nominee, needs to pick someone who would help him win.

Picking an openly lesbian VP would be, right now, a bad choice for his chances in November. This would mobilize the fundamentalists like nothing else. "Heartbeat away from the Oval Office" and all. This campaign would get so horribly nasty that I shudder just thinking about it. And to be honest, in this time in America, right now, the GLBT community would pay the price of it.

In time, this country WILL have a gay or lesbian Vice President. In time, this country will have a gay or lesbian President. But not right now. And it gives me no pleasure to say it.

[ruggerson]

49. What about the fierce urgency of now?

Obama very much believes in breaking down barriers NOW. Not waiting until ten years from now. So, why not do something courageous?

[terrya]

53. I don't know what else to say. It just makes me look like some traitor to the GLBT community.

But if Barack Obama were to choose Tammy Baldwin (and I'm not even sure the convention would approve the choice), it would put John McCain in the White House.

I simply don't think, politically, this country is ready for an openly lesbian Vice President at this time. And it doesn't give me any pleasure in saying it. It makes me sick at heart, to be honest.

[ruggerson]

31. Before Obama's campaign, many said we weren't ready for a black president

Hope and change.

[Enrique]

28. I love her but I don't think she's tough enough

I think Obama is better off teamed with some mean sonofabitch.

[TwilightGardener]

35. We need an older, white male who's been around the block and

has national security or foreign policy creds for VP--my vote is for Jack Reed.

[MadBadger]

37. When a majority of Americans dont believe Gay people deserve Equal Rights, its not going to happen

And I'm talking about Obama and Clinton as well. They dont even support full rights for Gay peole.

[ruggerson]

42. Well wouldn't this choice be like Johnson picking Thurgood Marshall?

historic and inspiring?

When Johnson chose Marshall, the majority of the country didn't even believe in interracial marriages.

[fujiyama]

40. Interesting idea

But I'm guessing Obama's looking at someone with more NS/FP experience...and I don't think we necessarily need another congressperson/senator for the VP...

Also, considering that he himself has a fairly liberal record (in the IL state senate and his shorter record in the US senate) he might end up choosing someone more centrist/conservative. I think it would be great if the US could break through several barriers at once by electing a black person and a lesbian on the same ticket...

[Unsane]

54. What about Barney Frank for Hillary's VP?

[ruggerson]

56. From your lips to God's ears

and why did you specifically mention Barney in the context of this thread?

[Unsane]

57. Okay, so you support Barney Frank for Hillary's VP?

Will you make a thread about it?

[ruggerson]

58. It was your idea

be my guest.

And why bring up Barney Frank in the context of this thread?

[Unsane]

59. Think real hard.

You'll figure it out.

[ruggerson]

62. Tell us why you mentioned Barney Frank in the context of this thread

I'm curious.

[Unsane]

64. The same reason you brought up Tammy Baldwin

So when Obama supporters rejected your idea (because of rational political reasons), you could use that as a reason to bash Obama. When the shoe is on the other foot, i.e. advocating Barney Frank for Hillary's VP, the same problems arise. Pure hypocrisy and nonsense on your part. Your threads poison this place.

[ruggerson]

66. If Obama supporters reject the idea of her because of rational political reasons

(and some have, some haven't), that still doesn't answer why you brought up Barney Frank.

Isn't that the same as Bill Clinton bringing up Jesse Jackson in the context of Obama's win in SC, something you were very vocally angry about?

The only poison I've seen so far is from you and your double standard.

[Unsane]

68. Because, when Hillary Clinton supporters in turn reject Frank for similarly rational reasons,

they can be similarly bashed--just as you have attempted to do to Obama supporters (see e.g. here, here, and here). Your motive is easily seen.