Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

So, am I the only one who thinks both candidates are qualified to be President?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:02 PM
Original message
So, am I the only one who thinks both candidates are qualified to be President?
Yes I understand that this is longer than the attention span of your average GD: P fighter, but I'm writing it anyway

I'm really sad that the theme of the campaigns has turned into who is qualified to be president and who isn't. I think it distracts from the more serious issues and (I believe) real differences between the two candidates.

I think Hillary Clinton is qualified to be president. I believe in trying to make the case for her experience by way of attempting to diminish the qualifications of Obama has been a mistake. She has ended up having to really stretch the truth in certain areas, particularly in foreign policy experience, in order to paint herself as the ultimate expert in the nation and paint Obama as completely lacking.

The truth is, Hillary Clinton has a lifetime of public service involvement, either as first lady or senator or otherwise. That experience counts, and in my book more that qualifies her for President. She doesn't need to pretend that she's had major roles in all kinds of foreign policy when she hasn't. She doesn't need to exaggerate her role as first lady. She's already accomplished, and well experienced in Washington. She understands international relations well enough to be qualified to run, and her time as Senator certainly makes her acquainted enough with national politics to run for President.

Likewise, Obama's biggest problem is not that he doesn't have the experience to be President - he does. His biggest challenge is the way that he has thrown the democratic political establishment on its head. I am not for one minute suggesting that Obama is a leftist - he is certainly not. He is a center-left moderate. However, he is an "outsider" in the sense that his campaign success has been built from the ground up, rather than from the top down, and this is very tumultuous for long time entrenched establishment party figures, including those in the Clinton campaign.

I also believe Obama is qualified to be President. He too has had a long history of public service. His time in state and national legislature serves him well and gives him knowledge and experience with how to get things done. Both he and Hillary Clinton, truth be told, are basically on the same plan when it comes to foreign policy preparedness. And in reality, the most important questions we could have answered if we really wanted to know how effective either candidate would be in foreign policy would be: who will they appoint as Secretary of State, Defense, and Attorney General. Who will be their Chief of Staff? Those are the things we would really need to know to have an honest picture of which candidate would be the better executive when it comes to foreign policy.

Maybe I measure qualifications for Presidency different than other people

To me, the office of the Presidency of the United States is about leadership. Leadership is more about character and more about values than it is about experience. Our country has had brilliant leaders who had very little experience coming into the job, and our country has had horrible leaders with a lifetime of experience coming into the job.

Leadership is about character, values, vision and judgment. And this is where I believe the two candidates differ most. I believe that Hillary Clinton represents leadership that would be strong in maintaining the status quo, maintaining the basic structure and direction of the Democratic Party, and empowering the same old Washington establishment players. I believe her administration would be about a few bold initiatives - such as health care reform - but ultimately be about business as usual. I think either she or Obama would be more likely to keep us out of unnecessary wars than McCain, and more likely to have a slightly greater domestic policy focus. But I don't think there would be much about her Presidency that would do anything to transform the Democratic Party into a Party ready to lead America in the 21st century. I don't think there would be much about her Presidency that would shift the cultural climate of America back toward the left of center. And I don't think there would be much about her Presidency that would pave the way for the next level of slightly more liberal or "progressive" candidates for President.

On the other hand, I believe that an Obama presidency would do many of those things. I don't believe that Obama himself is some kind of messiah that will single handedly save the country or revolutionize everything in four or eight years. That's not why I support him. I support him because I believe that he has the character, values and vision to mobilize ordinary Americans. Taking a page out of George Lakoffs book I think he is the first Democrat in a long time to be able to persuade real people. I don't believe his idea of Unity means "capitulating" to Washington Republicans. Everything he is about constantly reinforces the belief that he is about moving the American center slightly to the left, helping create a political language in which ideas that make sense for all Americans aren't "liberal" ideas (in the negative sense in which the word has been framed) - they are just AMERICAN ideas.

America needs inspirational visionary leaders, and I think its a shame so many have scoffed at that. I don't believe his vision or inspiration is empty. He has been pretty clear about what that vision is. It's a vision where Democrats can finally, finally re-frame the issues and take that back from republicans. Public education is an AMERICAN interest. Basic health care for all is an AMERICAN interest. Ethics in Washington and an Open government is an AMERICAN interest. Promoting real security rather than reckless offensive wars around the world is an AMERICAN interest. I believe Obama is the kind of leader with the capability to start a cultural shift back from all the ground we've lost in the last thirty years.

And I believe Obama has the vision and character to transform the party into a party that can compete in the 21st century. Never in my life time has the party been in more need of a changing of the guard. The old establishment has become so entrenched with capitulators that it can hardly get anything done. Money and powerful interests rule the day. I believe that Obama and Dean share a similar vision for a transformed party, and with Obama's charisma and passion, I believe that we can elect a new generation of party representatives and establish a new generation of party leaders ready for the work of tomorrow, not the MAINTAINING OF RELICS OF THE PAST.

I believe that Obama's years as president would be about paving the way - among the people and within the party, toward the presidency of 2016 and I believe in that year, with the work of the Obama administration in place, we could be ready to nominate and elect a true, honest to god liberal.

I think both candidates are qualified. But I know EXACTLY why I support one over the other.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd like to note that the post was up 34 seconds before the first rec :/
Recommenders - that's nice, but please at least read it. :(

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've said that all along.
But the ten year olds have taken over GD-P so those of us who think this generally get drowned out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. She is a divider and we need a uniter
I can't take 1 day of her in office much less 4 years.

Save us Howard Dean, save us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. I remember the days of voting for a "Uniter"
Are you serious? "I am a uniter, not a divider!" "I am the decider"

Anyone who is all things to all people is a fraud. Haven't you learned your lesson?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Geez, what's wrong with your post?
Oh, I see it now...

You're seriously suggesting that Barack "resembles" that completely inarticulate, AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard, pandering-to-the-lowest-common-denominator, fear-mongering, drunken hypocrite, the-verbal-train-wreck-waiting-to-happen...

...because he's alleged to have some sort of broad and immediate, unfocused, "universal" appeal.

Coincidentally, although there are many fairly good things one could say of her candidacy, that's one quality Hillary will never have. There are just too many people who find her to be a polarizing figure. Even though having universal appeal is generally a good thing for a candidate to have, since it's DEAD (to her), let's turn it into a Negative, with this specious comparison.

Smoooooth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Look Again
Specifically promising to "turn the page," "New Politics," "bring the country together," can only lead to failure. DISMAL failure. Not only will it not happen, but so many concessions will be made attempting to make it happen that all chance of progress will be lost.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. I read both of your complete sentences, and the fragment, too.
As I understand it, there's a chance for "progress", but (citing the Krugman hypotheses) with Barack in charge that'll never happen.

Okay, that's how you feel. Keep on nursing those tender, happy thoughts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
31. I never voted for Bush

My lesson has been learned ~ Hillary is dividing this party.

She doesn't need any help from anybody, she had taken it to a new level of dividing a party.

Thanks for inspiring me ~ off to donate to Obama :bounce:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. What a great piece.
Beautiful. And I think you speak to people on both sides, including many who would make an equally compelling case for Clinton.

Good for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. The only thing that disqualifies Hillary to be president is her poorly run campaign. If
one can't win the delegates, one can't be nominated; And if one can't be nominated, one isn't qualified prima facia to be president.

Other than that, she meets at least the minimum qualifications to be president.

Obama has, on the other hand, run a superb campaign. He is leading in delegates, popular vote and in contests won.

And, as you point out in your OP, Obama meets all of the qualifications to be president.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Me gonna be happy with either or both
:hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. You lucky dog.... GD: P must be a wild ride for you, huh? :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Whenever th'neighbors is shootin Uzis at each and other, I goes on vacation t'th'beach
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. You're not the only one, but I believe there are many who disagree with you, myself included.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vixengrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. Count me as another who could be happy with either.
http://vixenstrangelymakesuncommonsense.blogspot.com/2008/03/try-little-tenderness.html

I'm interested in discussing the good about both candidates and weighing positives--I simply believe the past Republican administration and McCain's probability of extending that legacy, have too many negatives this time around for them to want to push that kind of comparison with either of these candidates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Just to be clear, saying both are qualified doesn't mean I would be happy with either.
Like, the Yankees and the Red Sox are both qualified to play ball. I do have a preference on who wins.

In politics, I think both are qualified, but I think an Obama presidency brings us into the future, a Clinton one keeps us stuck in the past. (that's the short version, more substance in the OP)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think they are both qualified....
the reasons you site for picking Obama are very close to why I first chose Kucinich and voted for my second choice Edwards. MY wish is that whomever we nominate will seek the advice of all of our great candidates, because they all have some very unique ideas to add to the mix.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. They're certainly both slippery enough; they'll do
There are many other living politicians who fit the Constitutional requirements and who I think would be better qualified to be President, but they're more or less okay.

There's really VERY little difference between the two, and that's the depressing part.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think they are both qualified
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
28. I think that one has been disqualifying herself by her actions
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. Are you the only DUer who thinks that BOTH candidates are qualified?
Well I am no math major and this poll is two days old:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4959947
From this poll, I am getting better than 3 to 1 in favor of Senator Obama.

The only other statistic I have is the measure of vitriol here in the DU coming out of both camps. We have ALL witnessed the nail bitin, hair pullin', gnashing of teeth coming out of both camps. So I simply have to guess that there are indeed a sizable portion from both sides who do NOT support the premise that the opposition's candidate is ...'qualified', to be POTUS.

Yes there have been a few, (and I confess that not long ago I WAS one of them), who feel that BOTH candidates are qualified but I believe that number is shrinking rapidly around here lately. The Radio shows I listen to, Thom Hartmann; Ed Schultz; Rachel Maddow; Randi Rhodes; Mike Malloy and Jon Elliot, lead me to also believe that only one candidate, (at best) is qualified. (I wouldn't get too near Mike with that question!)

Summing these two ...um.. "statistics", and knowing that many of us DUers listen to progressive radio, suggests to me that you may not be the only DUer who feels that BOTH are qualified, but you may be in a slim minority. It would please me to no end to get flamed for this observation... that might suggest a measure of hope for some cohesion in what may be a lopsided division within our forum. Not holdin my breath though.

BTW: I enjoyed readin your post. I feel it was well thought out. I make no such claims for my response, I am just puttin' in my 2-cents worth regarding your title question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. You were spot on in the first sentance
without reading your long speal no you clearly are not the only one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
18. let's put it this way
With the criteria that Obama uses both are qualified.
With the criteria that Clinton uses neither are qualified.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Heh... interesting point.
Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
19. Please Don't Take My Senator
We need her in New York. She will be a great partisan fighter in Congress.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
21. Virtually everyone who ran for the dem nomination is qualified
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southern_dem Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
22. No, you aren't the only one
I'd vote for either Senator, gladly. For me it's all about beating McCain...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
23. There seems to be a slight but consistent misunderstanding of my OP:
People who are agreeing saying that they too feel both are qualified are mostly also saying that they would vote for either one of them, or don't have strong preference etc.

You're missing the point of my OP a little bit. My point was that the "experience" debate where Clinton claims superior experience to be president and claims Obama does not meet the criticizes of experience to qualify for president is silly. And that both Clinton and Obama have the minimum requirements necessary to "apply for the job" and we ought to be able to move on to real questions of who is the better choice for America in '08.

I strongly think Obama is the better choice, and I stated why.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
24. Yeah.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
27. They are both qualified and one has been in the lead for a very long time
and one has not. For the sake of the party and winning the general election, Hillary should step aside.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
29. After GW, the argument can be made anyone is qualified to be president (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
32. They are both qualified...
One candidate won't be a lapdog for the Coporate Machine that controls Washington....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
againes654 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
33. Why in the hell
does this post not have more fucking rec's? This is one of the most level headed posts I've read in a long time here on DU.

I would rec, but it is more than 24 hours old. Wish I could copy it, and re-post it. It needs to be said and said until it is heard.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
34. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC