Do you support a do-over in Florida and/or Michigan?

[aquarius dawning]

Poll question: Do you support a do-over in Florida and/or Michigan?

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. New primaries or caucuses in both states are the only fair and equitable solution.

Especially considering that the first time around a lot of potential voters didn't even bother turning up at the polls because they were told their votes wouldn't count. That alone makes the current results in Florida (never mind Michigan, where Obama wasn't on the balot) tainted.

[Birthmark]

2. Florida had a legitimate primary

No need for a new one.

MI didn't have most of the candidates on the ballot. Something else would have to be done there.

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. Not according to DNC rules, it didn't.

And not when some percentage of the electorate didn't go to the polls because they were told the primary didn't matter.

[Birthmark]

37. The DNC can bite me (see my sigline)

1.75 million Florida Democrats went to the polls. There is no evidence that any non-trivial number of Democrats stayed home. I have looked.

[Mojorabbit]

43. I know a lot of people

who did not vote because it would not count. I voted because there was a property tax item on the ballot.

[Birthmark]

47. Do you? Super.

And I don't know anyone who didn't. Isn't that great?

The fact is FL turnout was more than double that of 2004 and in-line with the increase in other states. There's absolutely no reason to believe that any non-trivial number of Floridians stayed home. Who know, perhaps you know the entire "lot" that did?

[Mojorabbit]

49. I don't think so.

What a crappy thing to say.
Every state seems to be having record turnout. I want a do over. I want the candidates to campaign here. I don't care which one wins.

[Birthmark]

54. And I want Jessica Alba...

...super-glued to me. There will be no new primary in FL.

Further, if there are no delegates from FL seated, then McCain will carry FL in November.

So, the DNC has a decision to make. If they persist in the wrong course that they are currently taking, it will be the nominee who pays the price...and the nation which will have to endure four years of President McCain.

Dean better wise up fast!

[Mojorabbit]

59. It remains to be seen

whether there will be or not. The republicans I know are horrified at McCain and are looking at Obama cause they can't stand Hillary. I have no idea who will take this state. It is still a long way till the election and anything can happen.

[Birthmark]

61. McCain will take FL

...unless Dean does the right thing. And that is find some other way to sanction the Florida Democratic Party. They're the guys that broke the rules.

And you know what? Assuming it's proportionate to the offense, I'll support the DNC when they do.

But disenfranchising 1.75 million Democrats is the wrong thing to do for a variety of reasons.

[cali]

74. Actually, dear, it's hilly's people who are pushing for a new primary

in FL. Odds are there will indeed be a do-over there. One thing is certain: Neither FL's pledged or Super Ds will be seated as is. And who the fuck says that most FL dems won't vote for the dem nominee because their delegates didn't get seated? Your cesspool of a state is not going to be rewarded for flagrantly breaking the rules that they agreed to.

[Birthmark]

79. Yeah, the Republican Legislature...

...is just gonna do everything that they can to make things easier for the Democrats. :sarcasm:

You heard it hear: No new primary (it's not a do-over) in FL.

So, either FL's delegates (and pay attention to this) in whole <B>or part</b> get seated, or the Republicans will win FL and the election. That's the way it is. None of us has to like it, but some of us (DNC) had better be awake enough to acknowledge it.

[cali]

82. Franklly, I think the odds are very, very strong that

FL goes to McCain in any event, but pay attention: Your guv is supporting a do over. I'll bet it happens, and what won't happen no matter what is all the delegates being seated as is.

[Birthmark]

84. Bet only what you can afford to lose.

Crist, like many Southern Governors, doesn't have a lot of weight to throw around. The State Legislature will *not* authorize a new primary.

But feel free to dream.

[Zhade]

120. So you practice Lieberman-style democracy - threaten actual Democrats when you don't get your way.

Whine all you want, you're in the wrong.

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. The Supreme Court disagrees with you.

Per Democratic Party v Wisconsin, 1981: The national party cannot Constitutionally be compelled to seat a delegation elected in a manner contrary to party rules.

Too bad if you don't like it; blame your state party for stupidly moving their primary date when they knew the consequences.

[Birthmark]

53. I'm glad you're in favor disenfranchisement

I hope you'll enjoy the McCain Presidency as much. Again, see my sig line.

[Spider Jerusalem]

55. If you're petty and childish enough to blame the DNC for your state party's fuckup...

and stupid enough to oppose the fair and equitable solution to the current impasse of a revote...then, that's really your problem, not mine.

[Birthmark]

57. Nah.

I'm blaming the DNC for *their* fuck up. They aren't required to throw out the vote. They've elected to. They pay the price for that decision. Well, them and the nominee. That's what happens when you start penalizing innocent people --it usually escalates.

Plenty of time to take the State Party to task for its fuck up. But they aren't the ones disenfranchising me. They can't.

And speaking of the State, the Legislature is thinking about a law to prevent a candidates name from appearing on the ballot if FL has no delegates. That should be interesting. I think I back such a concept, though I'd want to see the particulars.

Dean better come to his senses soon...at least half way. Otherwise...President McCain.

[Spider Jerusalem]

62. Except they actually can't do that.

Ballot access law makes it unconstitutional for the state to strike the major parties from their electoral ballots. Any such move by the Florida legislature would be overturned on First and Fourteenth Amendment grounds of equal protection under the law, and of free political association.

[Birthmark]

65. Well, that's one opinion.

That's why I say I'd have to see how it's written.

[Spider Jerusalem]

66. It's not 'one opinion', it's Federal law.

The State of Florida cannot restrict ballot access in a way that violates the rights of a political party or candidate. No matter how they write the law, it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Opinion has nothing to do with it.

[Birthmark]

72. I see.

But they can restrict ballot access that *doesn't* "violate the rights of a political party or candidate, correct?" Do you see your problem?

[Zhade]

122. Oh, you and your supported FACTS.

How dare you bring up legality and Constitutionality when it stands in the way of Clinton's coronation!

:P

[verges]

99. Does Florida

really want to be percieved as responsible for President McCain, as well as President Bush?

[Zhade]

121. As the court holds, this is not disenfranchisement.

Did you speak up about this before the primary? Did you lobby to make the votes count? Or did you just whine months after it was known these delegates would not be seated?

[Hippo_Tron]

67. Florida and Michigan were two of six states where Republican turnout outnumbered Dem turnout

The others were Arizona, Alaska, Alabama, and Utah. The latter 3 are due to the fact that the Democratic Party is almost nonexistent in those states. Arizona is due to the fact that it's McLame's home state.

Florida and Michigan, both fairly close states, defied the national trend of higher voter turnout for the Democratic Primary than the Republican Primary. If you can find another explanation for that other than the fact that people were told their votes wouldn't mean anything, I'd like to hear it.

[Birthmark]

80. FL's 2008 turnout was more than double 2004's.

It increased more percentage-wise than NY's did. It was the highest in FL history. So your claim isn't relevant, especially since FL is a CLOSED primary. The numbers simply aren't on your side.

[electron_blue]

106. No it wasn't. Whose numbers are you using?

[Hippo_Tron]

110. Turnout increaseed by huge amounts EVERYWHERE from 2004 because it's an actual contest this year

But Florida and Michigan were the only non ultra-red states (besides Arizona which is McLame's home state) where turnout for the Republican Primary was higher than turnout for the Democratic Primary. That includes other closed primary states as well.

Yes a lot of people did come out to vote in the Democratic Primaries compared to previous years but more would have come out if the votes had actually counted.

[Birthmark]

115. That's your opinion.

There is simply no evidence that that's the case. Every bit of *actual* evidence (the numbers) says few, if any, stayed home.

[Hippo_Tron]

116. So what is your evidence that few if any stayed home?

Do you have polling data or anything to back that up?

[Zhade]

123. What do you care about evidence (or facts)? You've already dismissed federal law.

NT!

[cali]

73. The DNC is biting you.

And they aren't going to seat the delegates as is. Tough shit.

[Birthmark]

81. And we're going to bite back

Say hello to President McCain.

[cali]

83. You say that like it's your fondest hope

how rethuglican of you. In any case, your cesspool of a state will probably go for McCain regardless, and believe it or not, we can win without FL. Dems should never count on corrupt FL- that's for damn sure.

[Birthmark]

85. Nice spin.

Yes, anyone who disagrees with you is a Repub. :sarcasm:

Since when is disenfranchisement of the innocent a Democratic (or democratic) value? The right to have our votes count is trumped by the DNC's rules? And the DNC can punish the Democratic voters of FL for something that they didn't do and were powerless to prevent?

Maybe the Democratic Party has moved too far to the right for me...and many others.

[sabbat hunter]

86. Florida and Michigan

agreed to abide by the party rules. They also knew what the consequences would be for violating those rules. They chose to violate those rules anyhow.

Blame your state Democratic party leaders, not the DNC nor the future nominee for this mess, but your own party leaders.

There should be a revote in both Michigan and Florida. and if we get stuck with McCain as president because he wins florida (as a result of people basically taking their ball and going home), then the residents of florida will have only themselves to blame.

[Birthmark]

87. Complete and utter nonsense.

Anyone who thinks that FL's Democratic voters did anything wrong is just nuts.

And the State Party leaders didn't disenfranchise us. The DNC did. The State Party broke the rules, but the DNC should have taken that up with them, not the 1.75 million FL Democrats who voted in the primary.

There will be no childish "re-vote" in FL. FL Democrats voted in record numbers with all the candidates on the ballot. There is no need or reason for a new primary.

MI may, but their situation is a bit different.

[sabbat hunter]

91. the state leaders

disenfranchised you, they knew what would happen if they moved up the florida primary.

[chitty]

5. Florida was not legitimate......

a whole lot of people thought their vote was not going to count like they were told.

If you certify that, then you are disenfranchising voters.

If it happened to you, how would you like it?

[Birthmark]

38. No one thought that AND stayed home.

At least not in any number. FL had a record turnout. The ones who stayed home are imaginary constructs.

[electron_blue]

105. Where do you get your numbers?

They were expecting a record turnout, but didn't get it. Well, technically, there was a record set for Republican turnout this time around in Florida, but not for the Dems, and certainly not overall.

I think the only thing here that is imaginary is your view on how many people really did stay home that day.

But - think about the larger picture here. Do we really want to set a precedent of counting votes in an election when we told voters AHEAD OF TIME THAT THEY WOULDN'T COUNT? Voters are already pissed off in Florida from 2000 when many feel the election process in Florida was less than honest.

[Zhade]

124. It's called "making them up".

NT!

[stevietheman]

6. Responses like this are either delirious or dishonest. I've had enough of this crap. n/t

n/t

[chitty]

13. Responses like what?

If you stayed home because you were told your vote would not count, then 2 months later someone says "Well now we are going to count the state, but only the ones that voted"

You would be OK with that?

Fuck that shit, my vote better count.

[stevietheman]

22. The response I responded to. Florida was NOT legitimate. n/t

n/t

[chitty]

24. DOH!

[Birthmark]

41. "Delirious?" From a guy...

...who thinks that a turnout 233% of 2004's FL Primary isn't legitimate? Yeah, there's an opinion that doesn't worry me.

[stevietheman]

107. It was illegitimate and everyone knows it! n/t

n/t

[Zhade]

119. No, it did not. Deep down, you probably know this.

NT!

[AX10]

3. Michigan has to have a redo.

All of their names were not on the ballot.

[MagsDem]

7. He took his name off the ballot - should Rudy get do-overs too?

[mckeown1128]

28. When Hillary was asked why she didn't follow suit and

take her name off the ballot... do you know what she said... "MI doesn't count for anything" hmm... she didn't bother to take her name off the ballot because MI didn't count... then she wins because she was the only top tier candidate on the ballot... and now she claims the MI did count... ahhh the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

[Exilednight]

11. That's because they were suppose to take their name off the ballot, but .....

someone didn't comply with the pledge she signed. I'm not naming names or anything, but someone attempted to game the system.

[TexasLady]

17. Exactly. but dont expect that to stick.

[Exilednight]

8. I voted yes, but only if they are stripped of the super delegates. Punish the state party elite....

who created this mess.

[aquarius dawning]

9. I would prefer the Florida vote stand but I don't think BO will do that much better the 2nd t ime

around. I think she'll win both of these states again and walk away with a delegate gain and two more battle ground state victories to take to the convention.

[PseudoIntellect]

34. How do you know she'll win MI?

The polls say they're tied now.

[aquarius dawning]

44. I don't really but I'm willing to take the chance for democracy's sake.

And I spend a fair amount of time in michigan so I have a hunch that, when push comes to shove, Obama will run into more resistance than Hillary.

[PseudoIntellect]

52. Right, right. I just think it'll be close.

[Lord Helmet]

10. no because they were warned

[aquarius dawning]

12. smells more like fear to me.

[Lord Helmet]

18. Hilary's fear of losing except she already has and is desperate.

[aquarius dawning]

21. If you say so.

[Ileanasouza]

14. I support the mail-in system

It's more cost-saving.

[aquarius dawning]

19. too much room for cheating if you ask me. That would make things worse.

[Jamastiene]

15. Florida voters have been shat on for 7 years now.

It's about time they get their votes fucking counted regardless of the outcome.

Same goes for Michigan too as far as not being disenfranchised.

So, I say yes to a do-over in both. The entire reason they have been disenfranchised is due to Republican gerrymandering to begin with. Of course, I want to see a fight against Republican controlled sabotage.

[TexasLady]

20. so long as private donors keep out of funding it.

oh and fuck the repukes. I havent said that in a good while.

[Jamastiene]

23. Do you have a reason why private donors shouldn't fund it?

I'm just curious, honestly.

[TexasLady]

26. Simple

elections should always be a public thing, not a private thing.
Why would anyone want a vote that was funded by private donors with certain.. er.. interests?

[Jamastiene]

31. Fair point.

Then again, I wonder why they purposely sabotaged the primaries in those two states. In Florida, I hear it was the doing of the Republicans in the state legislature. That explains plenty there. :eyes:

In Michigan, I still don't understand the reason why.

[TexasLady]

33. yeah i heard EXACTLY the same thing

those bastards will stop at nothing.

[Jamastiene]

35. They just seem to have it all in the bag down there.

It has gotten to a point where Florida DEMOCRATIC voters have been ROUTINELY disenfranchised for years now. It's just plain wrong.

[mckeown1128]

30. Do you even know the truth about FL or are you playing

like you don't know.... The FL DEM party went along with the change in date... the situation wasn't force on anyone but the voters... and it was forced by the FL dem party.

[DemBones DemBones]

16. Not unless only the voters who voted in the original primary are

allowed to vote this time. They have a record of who did and who didn't vote, even if they can't recount ballots because of the stupid machines.

If you let new voters in, you invalidate the original will of the voters, the people who bothered to get out and vote even when they were told their votes wouldn't be counted because the state wasn't playing by DNC rules.

It's especially stupid to punish those voters when other states like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina had caucuses or primaries before Super Tuesday.

Senator Obama chose not to be on the ballot in Michigan but voters could have written him in and I presume his supporters did.

We should have one national primary for both parties, Super Tuesday timing sounds about right, and make it a federal holiday. Make election day in November every two years a federal holiday, too, or at least mandate that employers have to give employees half a day off to go to the polls. In some elections, it can take that much time, if not more. I stood in line a good three hours trying to vote Reagan out.

[aquarius dawning]

25. I definitely agree with a national primary day. A lottery system would be acceptable too

but not as acceptable. It is total bullshit that Iowa and New Hampshire wield as much power as they do every god damned election. That's why I supported Michigan and Florida in principle. Our model of democracy sucks.

[Jamastiene]

27. Tell me about it.

I'm in NC and my vote never counts in the primaries. The national candidates have always already been decided by the time we vote in May. Then, it's a matter of voting for local only at that point. So, we only really get to vote in the GE for presidential elections. Seems wrong to me.

[Milo_Bloom]

29. Either Caucus or Primary would be fine

Up to the DNC and the State.

Candidates should have no say at all.

[aquarius dawning]

39. They didn't caucus the first time, why would/should they the second time?

so we can make sure that Hillary's base can't support her this time?

[Milo_Bloom]

92. The first time didn't count.

This will be a new process and should be set up independently of the first.

[aquarius dawning]

101. sure, and it should be set up so as to favor Obama in evry possible way too, right?

Give me a fucking break.

[Milo_Bloom]

109. Did you read what I wrote?

Or are you just too filled with paranoia?

It is up the STATE and the DNC to decide.

Whatever they choose is good.

However, both Clinton and Obama should keep their mouths shut about it and just accept whatever is decided by the people who set the rules.

[aquarius dawning]

112. They chose Primary elections the first time around.

I see no reason at all to change to a caucus now other than to give Barack Obama an advantage. I don't care who is making the call, it's clearly a maneuver to gibe BO an advantage in a fight that he won't win otherwise. Clinton already won Florida once in a fair and democratic primary. If she agrees to fight it all over again, why should she have to do it on barack obama's terms? That's completely unacceptable.

[Milo_Bloom]

125. What they did the first time around is meaningless.

What you think is meaningless

What Clinton thinks should be meaningless

What Obama thinks should be meaningless


The only thing that should mean anything is the opinion of the DNC and the state.

[JVS]

Go ahead and caucus.

[dailykoff]

60. Second that. Caucuses are cheaper and more transparent.

Which is why they'll never happen.

[JVS]

32. Go ahead and caucus.

[wileedog]

36. I don't think it can be done

Logistically, fairly and in the time alloted. Plus no one wants to pay for it anyway.

The states screwed up. They are paying for it. Its probably not going to make a big difference anyway, as MI and FL will split between the candidates.

No point.

[aquarius dawning]

42. I know where 15 million dollars could be found to fund it.

[wileedog]

46. Sweet

Can you score me one or two Mil?

Seriously, I still think its a massive waste of time, it would be an incredible feat to get done correctly in a couple of months (especially by the boobs who run elections in FL), it will undoubtedly result in someone bitching and moaning and complaining that it wasn't fair and for sure there will be at least 3 lawsuits in Florida when it is over. And all of it so Hillary can get maybe 5 delegates closer at the end of the day when the two states basically split.

Honestly, I can spend the $15 million much better.

[DrFunkenstein]

40. The Hindsight Plan: 50-50 Split of Delegates For MI and FL

Let them come to the convention. They will payback Democrats the same way New Hampshire paid back Clinton for legitimating the Michigan ballot by staying on.

[aquarius dawning]

45. that isn't any kind of Democratic.

[LisaL]

51. That makes zero sense. Someone shouldn't get the votes

that someone did not earn.

[rodeodance]

77. don't be silly.

[Life Long Dem]

48. Save the money and award them to her advantage.

She still needs a 70% win in PA, and a 61% win for the remaining states! :rofl:

[southerncrone]

56. I support a do-over of the entire process.

This is madness. There should be a better way of doing this. I don't understand why we all can't vote on ONE day. And the TOTAL OF ALL VOTES CAST THAT DAY determines the nominee. That way it doesn't matter if your from Alaska or California or New Hampshire. Everybody's vote counts.

I know that the candidates would just court the big states, but as it stands now, most of the states are left out of the courtship anyway.

Each state would still have delegates based on the # of votes each candidate received in each state & they could still set the agenda at the convention.

OR have regional primary dates. One every 3 weeks. Rotating every 4 yrs. NE, MW, SE, PNW, SW.

Is that so hard? :shrug:

[MADem]

58. OTHER--I support whatever it takes to enfranchise those voters.

A couple of hundred fucking POLITICIANS shouldn't be allowed to subvert the will of MILLIONS.

[PurityOfEssence]

63. No revote, no vote for the nomination, but votes on everything else

It's sad to punish two whole, large states, but the state politicians defied the rules, thumbing their noses at everyone else and hurting the less-funded candidates. It's important to me that flagrant, self-serving violation of the rules isn't tolerated or rewarded so that it never happens again.

Having said all that, I still think that they should be able to vote on planks and party policy, and I hope this never happens again.

Don't worry; I won't prevail.

[Two Americas]

64. win-win-win-win

Do overs give us 4 wins, while every other solution gives us at best two.

The voters - do we want them disenfranchised? No.

Howard Dean and the DNC - do we want them damaged? No.

The candidates - do we want them to be damaged? No.

The party going into the general - do we want to place any handicaps or doubts about legitimacy on the party and eventual nominee? No.

I cannot see how either candidate, the voters, the chairmanship of the party, nor the party's fortunes in November are harmed by a do over. All come out stronger in my opinion. Weakening any of them weakens all of us.

[xxqqqzme]

68. I want Florida to apologize to Dean an the entire party

because THEY BROKE THE RULES!




then they can do whatever they want. Leave it to Florida to f*ck it up!

[better tomorrow]

69. and I'm going to register Democrat just so I can vote now.....

because I am an Independent and couldn't vote in this closed primary in January.....

Go Obama!

[bridgit]

70. Florida fucked up 'the biggie', I'm not convinced they deserve any consideration

[SoCalDem]

76. In our house we play "Florida? or Texas?"

I'll find an interesting news article, read it to my husband and then ask FL? or TX?

He usually gets it right.. Those states have the most "interesting "news :rofl:

[bridgit]

97. Don't they though. Where else but FL can you find the brother of a bfee

bully puppet, Mickey & Minnie Mouse, John Travolta's frequent flyer mansion, and a gator with a belly full of pink flake cocaine from Columbia :wow:

[Beregond2]

71. Do-over

I find it astounding that anyone would support a "do-over." The circumstances are entirely different now. Short of a wayback machine, there is no way to do it fairly.

And this talk about "disenfranchisement" is nonsense. This isn't an election; it's a primary. Parties can handle them however they want.

[SoCalDem]

75. Leave it as it is, or BOTH have a do-over

either way is fine with me..

[Zynx]

78. It would be absurd to disenfranchise that many people.

Sometimes petty party rules have to bend to moral principle.

[Jersey Devil]

88. I voted yes but I am very concerned about mail in elections

They are prime candidates for fraud and even if there is no fraud people may be denied ballots due to address changes and things of that nature. Add "Florida" and its history of vote rigging going back to 2000 and I think this type of election would be extremely dangerous.

[Pryderi]

89. The 2025 number already represents the loss of FL and MI. So no.

[formernaderite]

90. my one problem with a do-over

is that there are candidates that may have faired well and are no longer in the race. This is why those two states severely screwed up the system.

[exsoccermom]

93. Florida and Michigan primaries

One thing that does get mentioned is that both the Florida and Michigan primaries are being use for all the many, many, other offices that are up for election in November. This includes Congress, State and Local governments in both States as well school boards. The primaries were good enough and legal enough to select the people who will appear on the ballots in those states for all other offices except President. (actually, I think it was Michigan that had one additional special election for one office) The DNC has raised no objections to any of those hundreds of candidates selected in the January 5, 2008 Florida and Michigan primaries.

[formernaderite]

100. good point

I wonder if they'll have to revote those as well...just to be fair.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

94. I voted no to both, but

I'm in MI, so my reply should probably only apply there.

I'd prefer to exclude the states' delegates, including the supers. It would save time and money. Plus, if we re-do in MI, the rules will cause as much furor as the exclusion. How do we do this? Mail-in vote? Walk-in vote? Caucus? Who can participate? Only those who voted in the first primary? Only those who voted with the Democratic ballot? Everybody, including those who voted with the Republican ballot first time around.

Any re-do will be an ugly race.

Drivers, start your lawyers.

[SaveAmerica]

95. Does anyone know if Hillary has made a comment about supporting a do over or not?

Thanks.

[Khaotic]

96. Split 'em 50/50

The pledged delegates get seated, no wasted money.

Let the supers from each state go where they may.

This works because the each state is penalized for the misbehavior, yet the pledged delegates still get seated and count toward the end delegate count.

War of MI/FL over.

[uponit7771]

102. RIGHT!!!! Or split em proportionalty to current pledge delegate votes. Anyone who just comes up

...with the money to get this done will be looked as a reThug enabler.

[Barack_America]

98. Other: Depends on how it's done and who pays for it.

If the proper balance can be struck between what's fair to the voters, the candidates and the state treasuries.

[clevbot]

103. ///

nothing will be fair at this point. Howard Dean and the DNC should have fixed this problem a long time ago. Stripping all the delegates is unfair, IMHO, but the problem with a 'do-over' is who pays for it. Dean says the DNC will not... Private donations... NO...When you are contributing that much money to anything, you are not 'donating' as much as you are buying influence. I support primaries or caucuses in both states and believe the states/DNC should split the bill.

[clevbot]

104. ///

nothing will be fair at this point. Howard Dean and the DNC should have fixed this problem a long time ago. Stripping all the delegates is unfair, IMHO, but the problem with a 'do-over' is who pays for it. Dean says the DNC will not... Private donations... NO...When you are contributing that much money to anything, you are not 'donating' as much as you are buying influence. I support primaries or caucuses in both states and believe the states/DNC should split the bill.

[stahbrett]

108. Seat them AFTER a nominee is chosen

Don't make them part of the nominating process. Don't let the Florida and Michigan idiots who tried to bully the DNC to get their way succeed. AFTER a nominee is selected without them, then seat them for the rest of the convention.

(And yes, this screws the voters - both the voters who actually decided to vote in the de-certified elections, or decided to stay home, or decided to vote in the Republican primaries because those actually counted. Citizens get screwed over by their political leaders on occasion - those citizens should punish those politicians at their next opportunity - impeach/recall them, or vote them out at the next election.)

[aquarius dawning]

114. Better yet, let's just keep fighting about this all the way to the convention..

And then, after that, we can keep fighting about it all the way to the General Election.

[indio55555]

111. The poll is rigged!!!!

I can't vote. It says I already voted. WTF.

[aquarius dawning]

113. maybe you need to switch to your other DU identity then?

:shrug:

[Bucky]

117. I call it a "do-over" but it's actually just their first legal vote.

Clinton's a lawyer; a damn good lawyer. In her heart she knows those states didn't hold a legitimate election.

[Zhade]

118. Wow, lots of people support cheating.

Sad.