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Stone_Spirits Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 09:37 AM
Original message
The Power of a Peace Candidate (they are talking about Nader)
I thought this would be about Kucinich but...
Don't write Dennis off yet, we need him!

washingtonpost.com > Opinion > Columnists > Jackson Diehl

The Power of a Peace Candidate

By Jackson Diehl
Sunday, May 2, 2004; Page B07


When Ralph Nader announced his independent candidacy for president in February, he claimed his chief target would be "the giant corporation in the White House . . . George W. Bush." Two months later, a more plausible agenda is beginning to emerge. The adversary is not Bush but John F. Kerry; the main subject is not corporate greed but Iraq. And, contrary to the conventional wisdom of win- ter, Nader may be poised for a hot summer.

In February it looked as if Iraq might not be a central issue in the fall campaign. U.S casualties hit a postwar low that month, Iraqis signed a transitional constitution, and Bush and Kerry seemed to agree on the goal of establishing a democracy. Nader, according even to old friends, seemed to have no reason for his campaign other than vanity.

By two weeks ago, when Nader met Washington political reporters at a breakfast, all that had changed. Twice as many American soldiers had died during the previous week in Iraq as during the entire month of February. Support for the war was dropping quickly in polls, but Kerry and Bush still mostly agreed on staying the course. And Nader had prepared a new pitch: The United States should pull all of its troops, civilian contractors and companies out of Iraq within six months.

Why should voters choose Nader? Because Kerry, Nader told the reporters, "is stuck in the Iraq quagmire the same way Bush is." That leaves the independent as the sole choice for "the peace movement in this country."

-more-
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A59791-2004May1?language=printer
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sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. how can we still be buying this puke out of Nader?
I have lost all respect for him because he has proven to be more of an opportunist than his former, and truer, image of consumer advocate. If he had even a shred of integrity left why would he accept (BIG TIME) money from prominent GOP contributors?

<snip>
Nearly 10 percent of the Nader contributors who have given him at least $250 each have a history of supporting the Republican president, national GOP candidates or the party, according to computer-assisted review of financial records by The Dallas Morning News.

Among the new crop of Nader donors: actor and former Nixon speechwriter Ben Stein, Florida frozen-food magnate Jeno Paulucci and Pennsylvania oil company executive Terrence Jacobs. All have strong ties to the GOP.
<snip>

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0327-05.htm



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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Here's some lessons on the REAL Nader
My Life as Ralph Nader's Flunkie

By Charles Pekow
FrontPageMagazine.com | April 27, 2004

Ralph Nader believes an independent candidacy should “generate more understandings and support for major new directions for our country.” His website says these new directions include “repeal of laws that obstruct trade union organization by millions of workers mired in poverty by wages that cannot meet their minimum family livelihoods.” The site prescribes “a living wage for tens of millions of workers making under $10 an hour.” But the perennial leftist candidate, whose name will appear on the presidential ballot for the third consecutive time this November, has not played by the same rules he strives to make binding for corporations and private businesses. In fact, when the minimum wage rose, he once cut back on the hours his technical staff would work. Despite the millions of dollars he commands, he historically paid his professional staff less than minimum wage. Nader, who told Business Week during the last campaign that he offers staff “unlimited sick leave,” ordered staffer George Riley to take a two-week leave of absence to work on a political campaign, refusing him to pay for the time. When I worked for Ralph Nader in 1980-81, he paid us $8,000 a year, hardly enough to get by on even then. We could scarcely afford the time to spend money, though, because Nader expected staff to work around the clock...."

"...Though Nader claims he wants to fight discrimination, he and his staff asked me my age, religion, sleeping habits, family tree, medical history and a lot of other highly personal questions in violation of District of Columbia’s employment law. In a Washington Post commentary, Sidney Wolfe, long time director of Nader’s Health Research Group complained that the government was forcing him to collect medical details on his employees that he did not want to know. This is strange, because he asked me all sorts of medical questions he had no legal right to ask about during our interview...."

"...Perhaps Nader’s greatest hypocrisy, though, is his brutal anti-union actions. Publicly, Nader declares support for organized labor, pronouncing on his campaign website that “the notorious Taft-Hartley Act that makes it extremely difficult for employees to organize unions needs to be repealed.” But he viciously busted attempts of his own employees to unionize.

“The day after we filed for recognition, the locks were changed. I was fired. A few days later, the other people were fired,” recalls Tim Shorrock, who edited the Multinational Monitor, a Nader magazine, in the 1980s. “They went after me in an incredibly vicious way. When they fired me, they asked me for all my boxes back,” including ones Shorrock had brought with him to the job and considered his personal property. Nader tried to have local police arrest Shorrock and sued him, a case later dropped. “It was pure harassment,” Shorrock says – the same type of high-handed pressure Nader condemns in government and business...."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13141

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Stone_Spirits Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I was more concerned that
people have written off DK, meaning Nader can call himself the Peace candidate. I hope peace becomes a serious issue at the convention.
I want to keep DK's ideas on the table.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. I hear that.
The continued refusal of mainstream media to define Dennis for what he is; the willingness to credit anybody, even Nader, for work that Dennis has done, reminds me that he really is making a difference. A difference that those holding the reins fear.

Nader, the peace candidate? :puke:

I'm not looking for him to win the Gandhi Peace award any time soon.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Kucinich IS the Peace Candidate
and he is bringing his message all the way to Boston.
peace on earth, good will to all human kind, non-violent solutions for a hopeful future.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. frontpage mag is total right wing crap.
I am not a big Nader fan ( a HUGE fan of the Greens, though) but Front Page mag is run by a right wing wack job, David Horowitz. and anything written in it I take with a grain of salt. It's like using Free Republic as a source...
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. Kerry is so lame on Iraq that he deserves to have this...
...issue yanked out from under him. The invasion and occupation of Iraq are the defining issues of this election for a HUGE proportion of the electorate, and Kerry wants to "stay the course--" just a slightly modified course. I did not vote for Nader in 2000, but until I see what the Greens do, he's on my short-list for 2004. We need an administration that wants to make some sweeping changes AND ISN"T AFRAID TO SAY SO, not one that will perpetuate the Bush* league's worst boodoggles.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. You need lessons on the REAL Nader
Edited on Sun May-02-04 10:50 AM by mouse7
"...Perhaps Nader’s greatest hypocrisy, though, is his brutal anti-union actions. Publicly, Nader declares support for organized labor, pronouncing on his campaign website that “the notorious Taft-Hartley Act that makes it extremely difficult for employees to organize unions needs to be repealed.” But he viciously busted attempts of his own employees to unionize.

“The day after we filed for recognition, the locks were changed. I was fired. A few days later, the other people were fired,” recalls Tim Shorrock, who edited the Multinational Monitor, a Nader magazine, in the 1980s. “They went after me in an incredibly vicious way. When they fired me, they asked me for all my boxes back,” including ones Shorrock had brought with him to the job and considered his personal property. Nader tried to have local police arrest Shorrock and sued him, a case later dropped. “It was pure harassment,” Shorrock says – the same type of high-handed pressure Nader condemns in government and business...."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13141

There is ONE issue Nader cares about. Nader.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-03-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. YOU need lessons on using Front Page Mag as a source...
;)
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. "We need an administration that wants..."
First, the administration needs to win a majority of the votes to take office.

Then, the administration needs to work with Congress, a body that includes Republicans.

I don't see a Nader administration as a possibility, no matter what Nader may *say* he wants or would do. He's not doing anything but helping the Chimp.
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Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. The 'movement' has an inflated sense of itself.
It knows what it wants, but it doesn't have the slightest idea how to get it. I think it still naively believes Bush and the people he represents will allow themselves to lose.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
7. public now just about evenly split on "staying the course"
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balanced Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush: 2 to 1.
If Nader is not on the ballot, his voters (the ones who actually vote) go for the democratic candidate, 2 to 1 according to the latest polls. This is approximately the same ratio as the Florida debacle.

The following is true: If Nader had dropped out in Florida in 2000, Gore would now be president.

I hope the following does not turn out to be true: If Nader had dropped out, Kerry would now be president. However, if past is prologue, it could very well turn out this way.

If in October, the polls show a very, very close race, Nader will have to deal with this reality. How will he deal with it? Will he be a mature, reasonable person and drop out? Or will he be an immature, ego-maniacal person (as he was in 2000) and stay the course?

This time around, I have not heard whether Donahue, Sarandon, and the like are encouraging Nader the way they did in 2000. I hope they can make Nader see the folly of his position.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-02-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. But if 30,000 FL Dems had not voted for BUSH...
-OR-

If Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush had not wrongly PURGED 80,000+ voters from the voter rolls

-OR-

If those 3,400 little old Jewish ladies had not "voted" for Pat Buchannan, due to the poorly-designed "butterfly ballots"

-OR-

If Al Gore had concentrated on winning Ohio, instead of campaigning in very blue-state Illinois

-OR-

If Al Gore would have carried his very own home state of TN

....you get the picture. Nader did not cause Dubya to "win". Jeb and K. Harris had the Florida theft plan ready to go BEFORE any votes were cast.

Even though Nader may take away prospective Democratic votes for president, his voters also tend to vote for Democratic congressional candidates AND local candidates, too. Nader's presence also works in our favor, considering those that are voting for him are probably the same people who would have stayed home on election day.

Besides, if John Kerry runs such a weak campaign that a niggling 2% of the vote actually costs him what should be an easy election, he's got bigger problems than Nader.
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