NBC Poll: Nader may play a major role in deciding election

[WI_DEM]

A new NBC News poll out today suggests that by a 50-33 percent margin the country is moving in the "wrong direction", George W. Bush is still narrowly leading John Kerry 46-42 percent with 5% for Ralph Nader, who according to Tim Russert on The Today Show this morning, is emerging as "the peace candidate" with fully 9% of the independent swing vote behind him.

By a 47-42 percent margin a plurality now believes that the removal of Saddam was not worth the costs either financially or in casualties.

http://www.msnbc.com/id/4907503/

poll of 1,012 registered votes +/- 3%.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. So lemme get this straight

If only 33% of the country thinks we're heading in the right direction and 46% will vote for Bush, that means 13% thinks Bush is fucking up big time... but they don't care. Can anyone explain that to me?

[WI_DEM]

2. They think the country is not moving in the right direction

but that Kerry is not an improvement. According to Russert this morning Kerry has a big problem with voters accoring to this poll because they preceive him as someone who like to have both sides of an issue and his approval/disapproval rating is 38-38. So alot of people don't care for Bush but don't think Kerry is likely to improve the situation--this is what Kerry has to combat.

[harrison]

3. Well, there are always those looking for the moral vs the

immoral. The choice is usually the immoral vs the less immoral. Now, if Nader and his followers are so fucking egotistical that they want to guarantee the loss of more Iraqi and American lives, then I guess there is no stopping them.

And while I know that Kerry is not going to up and leave Iraq at a moment's notice, at least he is trying to fashion of multination policy on this damn mess.

I can only hope that as the time draws nigh, Nader pulls out of the race.

[Tina H]

6. For me, the question is *not* whether . . .

Kerry can be considered the lesser of two "evils." One of the major party candidates (usually the Democrat) can *always* be considered the lesser of two "evils."

The question for me is always the size of the gap between the two "evils." If the gap is big, then I vote for the lesser. If the gap is small, I either abstain or vote for a 3d party candidate that really does reflect my views.

Personally, I hope Nader and his bunch: (1) help convince Kerry to widen the gap between himself and the pResident; and then (2) drops out and endorses Kerry after he has helped guide Kerry closer to the place that Nader constituents want Kerry to be.

This strategy may work very well because Kerry has shown himself to be pliable and capable of changing with changing circumstances. However, unless and until Nader posts good numbers in polls, Kerry will probably move more center-ward than Nader-ward.

[zulchzulu]

4. Proof again that we are a nation of idiots

Anyone who sees no difference between Bush and Kerry hopefully is too fucking stoned on Election Day to remember to vote.

[tinanator]

10. typical, perfect logic

it seems to be a math thing, as well as a democratic problem for those responsibility challenged types who think there is a difference between voting third party and not voting at all. Both of these results are the responsibility of a candidate who cannot entice voters to vote for them, no matter how many insist that they are obligated to do as they are told. If Kerry doesnt show some very serious opposition to Bushcorp policy and some respect for the anti-war concerns of MILLIONS, he will go down in flames against an unelected imperial tyrant. Its laughable to see over and over the claims that appealing to the MOR swing vote is the path to victory. Simply a lie that is being repeated towards truthdom. Once again it is the Democrats to lose, and if they continue making the traditional mistake people will stay home, either stoned or pissed off, or both.

[zulchzulu]

12. Single issue stupidity and myopically keeping the eye off the ball

Why in hell would anyone but a half-witted knucklehead vote for Nader this time around. This purile pot party parlor talk that the "anti-war people" would rather vote for Nader than Kerry is solely based on the notion that no other issues matter or are any different between Kerry and Bush as well as are based on utter ignorance on not wanting to know Kerry's position on using the UN initially and to use war as a last resort.

It's either laziness, not wanting to get educated on the issues or just plain flat-out stupidity that would make someone even consider Nader as a viable solution this election year.

When I table for Kerry weekly, I run into an occasional Nader dimwit. I can tell you hands down that they are usually burnt-out putzes who hopefully don't own a calendar and have no idea when to vote in November.

[tinanator]

13. way to influence people and win enemies

Are you sure you are working FOR Kerry? These highhanded bigotries and disrespect for people who have JUSTIFIABLY lost faith in the Democratic Parties: handholding of the Bush selection, Bush the 41st whitewashings of scandals so profoundly evil that his family should be disallowed from holding office, the march to Afghanistan and Iraq and who knows where to next? These people are not all less than yourself, most of them seem to be quite intelligent and sick of the corporatism that pulls the strings of both parties and demands these unjustifiable acts of aggression leading us back into yet another Vietnam body count nightmare. There really is only one point to the two party arrangement, and that is divide and conquer. As the two parties merge their policies it is only natural that free thinkers will seek democracy rather than homogenized plutocracy. The only real divide in this country is between the citizenry and the rulers. The citizenry has absolutely no power or say in the decision making process, that was made perfectly clear the last selection. The entire Nader hating campaign is as anti-democratic and Rovian as anything those hillbillies ever devised. You might reevaluate your feelings toward the democratic rights of your fellow citizens, and the response you engender when you bash with such fervor people who are primarily concerned with environmental and democratic issues that the Democratic Party largely abandoned in the 90's and during the "recount" of 2000. It is often said that Gore ran away from Clinton in 2000. Well I seem to remember Clinton putting Gore's environmental issues in a drawer myself, not once giving the VP an opportunity to live up to the eco-expectations that his position on the campaign promised voters.

[zulchzulu]

16. There is NO POINT talking to a freakin' Naderhead at this point

Either you get it or you don't.

No matter how much weed you Naderheads smoke, we can't change the clock back to March 2003.

Oh wait, did that blow your mind. Too bad.

If people want to drink St. Ralph's Kool-Aid, all I offer is pity.

[zoeyfong]

17. You're right, I *don't* get your Us vs. Them worldview.

Kerry is going to have to *earn* every vote he gets, and if you don't get that, get ready to lose. Contrary to what you think, nader voters are not ignorant stoners; nader is raising issues that the other parties refuse to, and the democratic party ought to consider trying to win left of center votes, before it goes after right of center votes.

[zulchzulu]

18. Like I said...

If you think it's time for mealy-mouthed, whining parlor games when it comes to this election and can't seem to fathom the importance of getting every vote to go against Bush, then it is truly an absolute, utter complete waste of time.

If you really think it's time to guffaw and chortle about stuff you can't even begin to understand about the differences between Bush and Kerry (who are the only candidates you should be worrying about this election), then I hope you don't vote at all.

The only issue Nader is raising is how much of a pathetic hypocrite he is.

Nader's goal is to steal votes from Kerry which in turn gives more votes to Bush.

Nader is nothing more than an egomaniacal charlatan. My spit holds greater value on the sidewalk than in his pathetic face.

Even the Greens bid adieu to this clown of a man. He has poisoned what was a decent legacy up until 2000.

As for Kerry taking advice from a radical blowhard like Nader, that would be political suicide.

Nader's "ideas" are not "just left of center". They are possibly a shade higher in value to the indecipherable scribbles of a madman's urine-stained journal in a gutter.

America needs Nader like they need a nuke up their ass.

[demosincebirth]

14. Politicians give...

the American electorate too much credit in being smart. We are the dumbest... when we choose 2nd amendment rights and abortion issues over health care for all. Especially those struggling working stiffs who continue to support republicans, thinking that republicans, some how, will address their bread and butter issues. We are the dumbest.

[Jack Rabbit]

5. Two things

First, Nader should withdraw for the good of the country. Regardless of who defeats him, the focus must be on defeating Bush. Whatever Kerry's shortcomings on this issue, it is hard to imagine him sending Americans into combat and using brazen lies as a justification for the sacrifice.

Second, Kerry must soften his "stay the course" rhetoric and suggest that he is at least open to withdrawing from Iraq. By the time he takes office in January, assuming he does, that may be the only viable course that can be taken.

Instead of trying to convince us how much like Bush he will be, Kerry should be demonstrating that he is worlds apart from Bush. Polls that show Americans are misinformed about the facts of the invasion also show that those who are informed prefer Kerry over Bush. It would seem to be a no-brainier that informing voters of the facts and drawing attention to the junta's lies in justifying this war is Kerry's best strategy.

As for any goals in the war, forget it. Democracy was never on the table in Iraq. Even a neoliberal dictatorship, which is what the junta really means by "democracy" and "sovereignty", is down the tubes now. Any credible Iraqi government will ask American troops to leave; that request should be honored. That may not necessarily be democracy, but it is at least sovereignty.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. only if it's close will he matter

fuck him. May Kerry run away with it.

[MadHound]

8. Well, I have a solution for this problem

Co-opt some of Nader's positions! Put in a universal health care plank, or living wage plank in the Democratic Party platform. Become more dovish on the Iraq war, rather than promising more troops and unwavering support for it. If Kerry would do these things, then I guarantee that the support for Nader would wither, and Kerry would win in the fall. People are wanting something to vote FOR, not just repeatedly being presented with having to vote against.

It is the fine art of compromise that is needed here. Sad to say, it seems to be a lost art to the Dems. One that will probably cost them the election.

[bmbmd]

9. Nader is an honorable man, but he is Bush's last hope.

I expect he will withdraw at a later time. He will not doom us to another four years.

[Zynx]

21. Nader is not an honorable man.

Anyone who spews lies like he does is not an honorable man. He is an egomaniacal idiot.

[59millionmorons]

11. Nader has never approched 5% in any election

And he wont do it this year either. Any poll that shows Nader getting more than 3% is garbage.

[rucky]

15. They're really playing this crap up.

It's a GOP-created distraction from the FIXED ELECTIONS coming up.

[OnionPatch]

19. I think some people just don't understand

what danger we are all in from the Bush regime. Maybe I'm just overly paranoid but my feeling is that if Bush wins, we may never get a chance to vote for another Kerry, let alone a Nader. How many more wars under a Bush regime? How many more people have to die?

[Zynx]

20. I hate being held hostage by the extreme left.

I really, really do.

[genius]

22. The trouble is you can't convince a lot of needed voters w/o consessions

Kerry is going to lose a lot of his Democratic support if he picks a conservative VP or if he doesn't include universal health care and the end of NAFTA in the platform.

A couple of friends who had re-registered as Democrats for Dennis, just re-registered as Greens. A great many of the other Democrats we registered last fall are uncertain of how they will vote in November. Kerry can swing right and lose or stand up as the liberal we hope he is and win the election.