I really thought it was going to be Obama that unraveled.

[cliffordu]

When I first looked at Obama and listened to him talk, I thought well, this kid's alright but they're going to grind him into a powder once this election season gets underway for keeps.

Politics in this country is a blood sport and he doesn't look like he's been touched, let alone had the shit punched out of him in a presidential primary.

Thinking back, though - I do remember thinking Bill too soft for the Presidential race, but he turned out to be hard as nails. Hillary did, too.

The night Bill got the nomination I told my wife I felt like we were getting our country back.

When Hillary began her run we were thrilled - we were going to get our country back again after eight years of living like refugees under the NEOCON heel.

We were thrilled when we realized the Clinton political machine was kicking back into gear. Hillary had lived through all this TWICE, so we were confident the entire family were bringing their 'A' game.

Hillary is already a force to contend with and with Bill protecting her flanks she was going to be unstoppable. She was going to be poetic justice to the complete failures of all three terms of the Bush family "dynasty".

As a bonus we were going to elect a woman to be President of the United States of America.

We were thrilled.


I don't recognize Hillary anymore. Somewhere she lost the thread, something essential to her being the Hillary my wife and I respected and would have voted for. Maybe it's as simple as someone telling her to act softer, or more sensitively. Maybe she just got tired, or scared. I don't know what changed, but something did.

I used to make a living as an actor, see. She makes EVERY single mistake a beginner makes - purposeless hand gestures, straining to add emotion to words she doesn't feel, not understanding how and when to phrase for effect to words that mean nothing to her. Flop sweat evident in clumsy arcs of speech, eyes glazed over and straining to squeeze a genuine emotion out of nothing.

I've heard her speak extraneously and she is a fine orator. When she is in her comfort zone she's as good as you get in terms of the flow, logic and delivery.

But this 'more sensitive' Hillary has led to the uncomfortable, disingenuous amateur telling of the Bosnia lies, the Hospital story, the book bag crap, the garbage truck "Cascade of Garbage" speech....

While her fucking operatives gave us Obama in Muslim garb, Wright-gate, 'I have no reason to doubt him', He's too inexperienced, He's unelectable in the general, he's blah blah blah.

Since when are the Clintons desperate? Bad choices? Bad choices like Mark Penn?

The Clinton machine in ruins. Defeated by sexism, bad press, favoritism, any and all fantasy ills, stealing what both Clintons feel is their - rightful place - in this world, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

On the other hand...

Obama hasn't unraveled. He's weathered every attack covered ad nauseum in the MSM. He hasn't lost a step, hasn't flinched, hasn't stuttered even when he was 20 points down. He hasn't even broken a sweat.

If Bundini were still alive he'd say 'Rumble young man, Rumble'

He HAS weathered the blood sport of American Presidential politics and looks to be thriving.

If the measure of a presidential candidate is defined within the kind of campaign they run and the people they chose to help run that campaign, he'll be a great President

The votes say so, The polls say so, the massive grassroots campaign says so, the youth vote coming out in earnest says so. The delegates say so, and lately the stupordelegates say so.

I'll bet the future of my country that he will thrive as the democratic candidate for the office of the President of the United States of America.

Rumble, young man, rumble.

:patriot:

[VenusRising]

1. Very nice post.

K&R

[cliffordu]

2. Thanks.

[SunsetDreams]

3. Love it!

Thank you for posting.

Obama will destroy McCain without breaking a sweat.

K&R

[bhikkhu]

4. "...looks to be thriving", that's what I see

and a big part of my decision. Having memories of races back to McGovern vs Nixon, I don't recall a candidate so in his element - comfortable and confident, poised and eloquent, when all hell was ready to break loose at any mis-step.

[jasmine621]

93. You won't unravel if no one is pulling your string on a daily basis. nt

[Why Syzygy]

5. K/R proudly. :thumbsup:

[cliffordu]

6. Thanks a bundle!

[Why Syzygy]

145. Oh, and what about

her pretending that SHE discovered the current recession. aka Paulette Revere :spew:

[Why Syzygy]

146. .

[quakerboy]

7. well said

[StevieM]

8. Let's go down the list of your lies

1) to attack her for the hospital story is such BS. She repeated a story told to her by a voter. That's it.

2) The African garb accusation is bogus. Matt Drudge is a known liar. And the notion that Hillary would ever send him anything is absurd beyond words.

3) There was nothing wrong with what she said on 60 minutes. To say that there was is not even a makeable argument.

4) Barack Obama brought Wright-gate on himself.

Steve

[my3boyz]

13. I assume you think the notion

of Hillary having something to do with the right wing nuts on Fox News is absurd too. What makes them any better than Matt Drudge. He is one of them. She has been cozying up to them an awful lot lately!

[mhoran]

27. List of lies?

With all due respect, that's the kind of inflammatory language that Obama supporters have been asked to stop using at this site. Disagree if you like, but terms like "lies" are neither necessary nor helpful.

[galloglas]

148. "With all due respect" ??

you write "With all due respect, that's the kind of inflammatory language that Obama supporters have been asked to stop using at this site."

So, are you consciously, or unconsciously, named "m_(w)horin" ?

[mhoran]

151. Your Point?

???

[galloglas]

174. Just asking

But it seemed a double entendre... even if subconsciously...

[Hamlette]

43. Hillary admited giving Drudge the scoop on her first fundraising numbers

Which were misleading in her favor. Which he dutifully "reported".

I'm not saying she sent him the African garb pic (because I don't know and I don't trust him and I'd never send him a scoop) but what appears to be "absurd beyond words" is the notion that she would never send him anything.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/22/nyt-misses-true-na_n_69434.html

"In April, Mr. Drudge scored exclusive access to a first round of Clinton fund-raising figures." But he fails to mention that Drudge was fed deceptive information and promoted an entirely misleading headline -- "AMERICA LOVES HILLARY -- TOP FUNDRAISER FOR ROUND ONE: $36 MILLION" - when in fact the big news of the first quarter fundraising was that Obama actually beat Hillary in the only number that mattered: primary donations. The $36 million figure was gallingly misleading - it included ten million dollars that the campaign transferred over from Clinton's Senate campaign, plus $6.9 million that was raised for the general election.

All of that was left out by Drudge, and Hillary ended up benefiting from the siren's red glare as it birthed a spate of favorable and erroneous press. For Rutenberg to omit mention of this completely glosses over the true nature of the relationship between Clinton and Matt Drudge, who's been more of an official campaign stenographer than an observer - impartial or otherwise. As Andrew Sullivan noted weeks ago: "He helps her win the primary. She potentially doubles his traffic for at least four years. Win-win."

[EnemyOfTheocracy]

54. what about her tuzla lies?

how many of her lies are you going to jump on hand grenades for?
some people say that obama followers are a cult i beg to differ.
Hilary supporters view he like she is mother theresa, she never lies, and anyone who heard her lie is a "sexist" if they call her the liar she is.
save your
#1
#2
#3 crap.

like a lemming your ready to follow her off a cliff.
no matter the lies she tells.
who knows maybe she can run with lieberman on a "unity" ticket.
she is not a democrat anyways. She is no better than Zell or G.I. Joe.

[RazBerryBeret]

61. pssst, SM,

hillary/drudge they're kinda friends....or at least have a working relationship:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/us/politics/22drudge.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/23/usa.hillaryclinton1

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/brodner/2007/10/hillary-drudge-clinton.html

etc....

[WolverineDG]

85. Repeated without substantiating it

Um, yeah, that's what I want in a President, someone who'll immediately swing into action without asking for troubing things such as "facts." Oh wait, that's what we've already got. No thanks.

dg

[graywarrior]

90. List of lies

Jesus. Why even bother?

[TomBall Democrat]

94. StevieM,

your candidate has lost the respect of every life long Democrat I know.

That is not a lie.

Sorry, but she's going to lose the nomination, too.

[bobthedrummer]

136. Momma's DLC boy-the people here are fired-up, HRC is the mother of lies

"Know Your DLC: Current DLC Leadership Team and other Democratic Leadership Council links"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view-all&address=132x5396391

[krkaufman]

161. In regards to the Drudge connection...

... evidence continues to mount that the Clinton campaign understands the position of the Drudge Report, regardless of the trustworthiness of the website, as a funnel for mainstream media coverage ...

The Clinton tax returns, which were released on the Drudge Report, an online news site that is usually hostile to the Clintons ... (link)

The returns went out at 4 p.m. Friday, and the Drudge Report apparently got early word they were coming. (link)

... and this more on-point commentary ...

Get out the siren: Clinton leaks tax returns to Drudge
Man that broke Lewinsky scandal now target of Clinton news machine
John Byrne
Published: Saturday April 5, 2008

The man who broke the story that nearly derailed her husband's presidency continues to get first dibs from Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.

Clinton's tax returns were leaked early to the conservative website The Drudge Report, "who has been extremely hard on Hillary for months — as good proof as any since the time of Machiavelli that it's better to be feared than loved," "according to Politico.

Clinton has also leaked her fundraising numbers first to Drudge in the past. ...

The New York Times wrote about Clinton's Drudge 'relationship' after her fundraising numbers were leaked last year.

"Within minutes, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton's fund-raising success was injected via Drudge into the day's political news on the Internet and cable television," the Times' Jim Rutenberg wrote. "It did not halt coverage of Obama's speech or his criticism of her vote to authorize the war in 2002, but along the front lines of the campaign - the hourly, intensely fought effort to capture the news cycle or deny ownership of it to the other side - it was a telling assault."

"Clinton's aides declined to discuss how the Drudge Report got access to her latest fund-raising figures nearly 20 minutes before the official announcement went to supporters," they added. "But it was a prime example of a development that has surprised much of the political world: Clinton is learning to play nice with the Drudge Report and the powerful, elusive and conservative-leaning man behind it."

Continuing to deny a relationship between the Clinton campaign and the Drudge Report is beginning to border on a 19%er's denial of reality.

[TLM]

194. LOL!!!!!!

"1) to attack her for the hospital story is such BS. She repeated a story told to her by a voter. That's it."

The attack is that she again showed poor judgment in telling a story that she never bothered to check out, and should have known was false because of her own legal experience.


"2) The African garb accusation is bogus. Matt Drudge is a known liar. And the notion that Hillary would ever send him anything is absurd beyond words."


Hillary is also a known liar, sniper anyone, and she's been working with Scaife too. So why would I doubt she'd use drudge to smear obama?


"3) There was nothing wrong with what she said on 60 minutes. To say that there was is not even a makeable argument."


I've seen the argument made many times, her comment was tacit at best... had someone asked Obama is he thought hillary killed vince foster, and he replied, "Not as far as I know." would you not attack that?


"4) Barack Obama brought Wright-gate on himself."

LOL!!! Way to avoid responsibility for the FACT hillary continues to use wright to attack obama and ignore the times she and Bill consulted with wright and had him to the white house. So if you think that Hillary is the right choice because you are worried about the rightwingers saying Obama might have wright in the whitehouse... just remember Bill and Hill already DID have wright in the whitehouse.

http://www.411mania.com/politics/columns/71442/Photo:-Rev.-Wright-&-Bill-Clinton.htm

[gear_head]

9. Clinton losing because --> there are only two candidates left

the story raises interesting points, with that said.

when there were six candidates, 40% made Clinton look
like a winner

with only two candidates left, 40% is losing.

Clinton does not look gracious in losing

[KaptBunnyPants]

69. It's a shame too, in a way, as it didn't have to happen like this.

Clinton has the best policy on healthcare, a pivotal issue for our time. She has the Clinton legacy, which I thought would probably be enough for her to take it all the way. I think what really did her in was that she never accepted the positive changes which have occurred since the nineties in the political attitudes of our culture. Back then, Clinton surrogates could simply dismiss people who passionately believed in liberal policies as unserious, and liberalism was so anemic that few people cared. But they tried that strategy today and it blew up in their face. They started out with feminists who were eager to see a woman President and the reliably pro-business/anti-worker faction within the Party, and they ended with only them as well.

[Radio_Lady]

182. Gear_head, you're new here, but to say "Clinton does not look gracious in losing," we have to wait

until people vote. Then, if she loses, we'll see. She is behind in polling and delegates at this point. Not a comfortable position, and but not a loser.

In my eyes, Clinton looks like a candidate who is trying her best to appeal to a very divided electorate (how many candidates did we start with?) in which many acceptable candidates were unable to keep up the fight, and dropped out. I think they were ALL gracious in their various speeches.

Coming in second in the race will be disappointing for EITHER of these last two candidates. They both appear to be genuine in their desire to achieve a victory. It really is a shame that things have worked out this way, because I was one of the believers that we might have an enchanted ticket with both of them on it. Seems that was an illusion, but one can still hope.

Cordially,

Radio Lady in Oregon

[gear_head]

199. restatement

I should have wrote something like...

HRC does not look so gracious,
in the role of the (PRESUMED)
candidate running in second place.

I don't know what is going to happen in August.

[Radio_Lady]

201. No worries. Nobody knows what's going to happen in August.

Let's hope it isn't a scene with "blood all over the floor" as predicted by Florida Congressman Bill Nelson. That doesn't help EITHER Democratic candidate. Can you believe that my daughter's in-laws spend 1/2 the year in Michigan (where I believe Hillary was the only person on the ballot -- correct me if I'm wrong) and the other 1/2 of the year in Florida at their condo! It's not funny... they REALLY want their Democratic vote counted. (No, they didn't vote twice.)

See the WPTV (West Palm Beach, Florida) story. The video is excellent. You'll have to draw your own conclusions about his positions, but he's one cool older gentleman with that delightful drawl. I have no answers on this matter at this point.

This was posted by DUer madfloridian and the link is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5416692&mesg_id=5416692

Welcome to the DU and good to C U!

Cordially,

Radio Lady Ellen Kimball in Oregon

[Radical Activist]

10. Chicago/Illinois is the big league of politics.

People underestimate how well Obama was prepared by rising in Chicago politics. He didn't have anything handed to him by his spouse.

[cliffordu]

139. Right - NOW I remember Mayor Daley and his group of hardballers...

[cornermouse]

11. It's not Clinton or Obama that's losing.

It's DU.

[AirmensMom]

12. "He HAS weathered the blood sport of American Presidential politics and looks to be thriving."

He looks like a pro who's up against an amateur.

[joeprogressive]

14. K/R Excellent analysis, especially the part about expressions.

HRC is a terrible actor. I realized it when I heard her audio book. It is very easy to discern when she is genuine and when she is faking it.

[cliffordu]

48. Someone could do an intro to acting class section with her audio

books and then her "performance pieces"

Excellent observation.

[Guava Jelly]

15. K&R

:)

[Adelante]

16. Excellent post

Thank you.

[BumRushDaShow]

17. K&R

:kick:

[sellitman]

18. No fair!!!!!

You pulled that OP out of my head.

That's exactly how I feel. Down to the last syllable.

I think we are watching the rise of President Obama and all I can hope for is the waters around him rise too and make the whole party successful.

Great post thief! :toast:

[cliffordu]

We've been listening in on your conversations with yourself

for some time. Hurry up and think other good thoughts, though, I need another piece!!!

Thanks!

:patriot:

[sellitman]

74. Just wondering....

Do you listen to the Rice Crispies too?

[SwampG8r]

91. i do and mine say

o-ba-ma o-ba-ma o-ba-ma
:applause: :applause: :applause:
snap crackle and pop know whats what!

[mikekohr]

19. In a Word, Barack Obama is Genuine.

I had a rare opportunity to meet and speak with Senator Obama in July of 2004. Active in local politics I have met a lot of candidates and politicians. Barack Obama is not a typical politician. I walked away from that meeting with candidate Obama knowing I had met a man that comes around in politics once in a generation.

The more America sees and hears Senator Obama the more apparent it is to the American public what I saw back in 2004. He will be our nominee. He will be elected in November and go on to become a historic and accomplished President.

Seldom does the right person come along at the right time at the right place in history. Barack Obama is such a person.

mike kohr

[quantass]

20. I second that! nt

[yasmina27]

21. Make that a third!

Here, here!

[Willo]

23. fourth!

[FrenchieCat]

188. I'll be the fifth!

Rare breed here at the right time. The Urgency of Now!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

59. and Hillary, the "real" Hillary - is FAKE

fake fake fake.

Now we know, the pair we defended, that our democratic party took hits because of,
that caused us to lose congress and to NOT get health care -
they are fake.

[Rocky2007]

65. I fifth that!!!

My thoughts exactly to the original poster.

Those people that say he's all talk have no clue what Barack is about!

:kick: :kick: :kick: :woohoo: :toast:

[FogerRox]

71. Mike, I think you are right, so very right.

[myrna minx]

153. I agree. n/t

[Big Blue Marble]

22. Beautifull analysis

Great insights. Thank you for sharing your prospective.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. I think that's how many Democrats feel

[Rosa Luxemburg]

25. I think that's how many Democrats feel

[FlaGranny]

26. You have said what so many of us are feeling. n/t

[RBInMaine]

28. GREAT post ! There is something special with Obama: that sense of hope and optimism.

[Erin Elizabeth]

29. Fantastic analysis.

I agree with every single word. I, too, once respected, admired, and liked Clinton (both of them). I probably will always have a certain level of like for Bill, just because of the past. But the last few months have tarnished that considerably and it hurts. He's fallen down.

And she has done a nose-dive, sadly.

Obama!

[GMFORD]

34. You are right on.

I've been thinking a lot about what happened to the Hillary I loved in the 90's and thought I knew. I'm glad you pointed out the bookbag statement in her recent speech...the timing was totally off, the emotion was nonexistent and it just fell flat. Who knows if it was true or not, she told it so badly it didn't sound true.

Two things come to mind after reading your diary:

First, I've come to the tentative conclusion that what happened to Hillary is she lost self-confidence. A confident person trusts their own judgement and doesn't take bad advice.

Second, I sometimes look at the two candidates as opposing lawyers each trying to win their case. Acting, litigating and political campaigning have quite a bit in common. Lately Hillary looks more and more like the prosecutor in the OJ case who always drove me crazy because she was so deadpan, had no fire in her delivery, totally failed to win over the jury in spite of having a pretty good case and didn't rebut the points raised by the defense well at all. Obama on the other hand looks like the OJ defense team (nothing to do with OJ's guilt or innocence, just talking style here). His delivery is full of emotion and spot on, he presents his case in a way that resonates with the jury and walks all over the prosecution's case handily. I bet to this day most people remember the line 'if it doesn't fit you must acquit' but I doubt anyone remembers a single line from the prosecution.

Note: I only used the OJ case because it was so widely televised that most people are familiar with the two teams of lawyers. My point was about winning and losing, not about OJ.

[NCDem60]

126. I know one.

"I bet to this day most people remember the line 'if it doesn't fit you must acquit' but I doubt anyone remembers a single line from the prosecution."

Only prosecution line I remember was, "It didn't fit, my case is shit."

[GMFORD]

186. LOL

Good line.

[KittyWampus]

30. who the hell is Bundini? Any relation to Bunnicula? Sounds like the rabbit version of Houdini

[RichardRay]

39. Muhammed Ali's cornerman

and father of Ruth Brown's son, and the actor who played himself in the movie about Ali. Maybe there's another Bundini, but that's the one I assumed he meant.

[cliffordu]

55. Bundini was Ali's cornerman

When Ali was talking that beautiful, terrifying, over the top talk, Bundini would yell "Rumble, Young man, Rumble" and

generally act as punctuation to Ali's verbal assault. It was beautiful.

IIRC that he was where "Float like a butterfly still like a bee..." came from.

Everyone waited breathlessly to watch Liston dismantle Ali. Twice. What an amazing time.

There are a lot of parallels to what is going on with Obama......

[SwampG8r]

95. rumble young man rumble

[cliffordu]

100. I still get chills when I see that photograph.

[WillyT]

115. Here... With Ali...

:hi:

[mapatriot]

31. Extraneously??

Your critique of oratorical expertise would hold up a bit more if you knew the difference between "extraneously" and "extemporaneously".
Sorry, but grammar and usage is so bad these days, I'd like to hope the people on this site were at least slightly above the "herd".

[cliffordu]

49. I herd ya, bro'

Thanks for catching that. No excuses.

I know the difference. I looked right at it and didn't see my error.

Can I vet my pieces through you from now on?

[Joe Chi Minh]

75. I assumed you used the word 'extraneously', in the sense of 'external to' or

'outside of' intense speeches on the most crucial issues, when she wasn't trying too hard.

As for editing, it's normal for us to look at our typos and errors and miss them. Other people are the best at spotting our mistakes. Translators are always in editing mode, and readily edit out their own mistakes, so when checking the hard copy of their text, as they have to, will place a ruler under each line, as they go, to focus their attention more closely.

Your educated, but 'real world', input is a real plus to this thread. Keep up the posts.

[BlooInBloo]

121. Hope is not a plan.

[cliffordu]

124. No, but his website is full of both.

[DeschutesRiver]

32. Agree in part

I never thought much of Bill or Hillary - wait, when first elected, I did have great hopes. But as time passed, Bill unraveled too many essential things in order to maintain what I came to understand as an illusion of prosperity. This was bound to come back home to roost; plus his behavior and hers (approach to health care) became shifty and uncomfortable to watch. Like, who was this person we elected? Not who I thought at all.

So I was sad she was running, because in my book she was someone with little real experience/achievements/success running against another person of the same ilk. Yeah, she hung out at the WH - so did lots of other people in more challenging roles. Not dissing her on that, but really, what she did no more prepared her to be prez than what other first ladies did. I had no clue who this Obama dude was - thought nice young man, but they will eat you for breakfast, and with the tough economic times coming, we need strength that I don't think you could possess at your age/experience. I thought my only choice was McCain, who doesn't freak me out nearly as much as Bush/etc. Figured it is only 4 years at his age, and while I don't like Bush, it is not like it has killed me outright for that fool to be in office. Actually none of the fools (including Bill) have killed the country - we just don't get where we need to go, and people do suffer for their stupid actions. I would love to see a woman in office; but above all else, character counts more to me. I don't wholeheartedly agree on issues with any of the candidates, but the only one I wouldn't vote for now is Hillary. I would write someone else in first.

I think what happened to Hillary is that her strength was false and only present when she assumed she had the nomination in the bag; that it was to be handed to her on a silver platter while she rested on laurels that she hadn't achieved. The minute she had a real challenge by another candidate, which she didn't foresee, she lost her edge and has never regained it. She has become a different person. A person I couldn't imagine holding the office of the president and doing anything other than screwing up our country as much as Bush has done. The only surprise to me is that I underestimated her capacity to flounder and lose her focus; plus the lying thing is so out of control that for awhile I was embarassed at her "performances" being so transparent.

I could vote for McCain or Obama - would really like to see both of them get to getting and start dusting it up on the issues so I can decide. This has been the most excitement I've felt about an election for all of my 50 years on the planet. I have written off Clinton completely - I turn off the tv when she speaks or is spoken of - I read very few posts here about her, if any. I am focusing on the other two almost exclusively now.

[fight4my3sons]

72. "I thought my only choice was McCain, who doesn't freak me out nearly as much as Bush/etc."

"I could vote for McCain or Obama - would really like to see both of them get to getting and start dusting it up on the issues so I can decide."

What is there to decide?

[DeschutesRiver]

127. Tons of things

I am a 50 year old registered independent. My top priority is the economy - we are in for a shitstorm, the likes of which I never believed I would see in my lifetime. The kind that will affect the generation after mine in a way that will mark their souls forever. McCain says he has no clue about economic matters, and from what I saw with the tax returns, he lives on his wife's plentiful income, so he has been untouched by the economic realities that mess with the rest of us. Obama has an economic plan, but from what I've read so far, I disagree with him on many points about what it is going to take for our country to remain intact socially during such a bad times. He is a lawyer, and a great legal mind at that. I am a lawyer, and I understand his language, so to speak - so if we disagree on various laws in place, or that he'd like to put in place, I know he understands it in the way I do, so why are we reaching different conclusions? Gotta dig into that more, to see why he thinks he can get us where we will need to go.

I know that the part of the "right" that I can't stand with a passion, also dislikes McCain for being a moderate repub, so they aren't going to be catered to in the slightest if he wins. McCain almost went over to the democratic side at one point; I know that he thinks more like a mildly conservative democrat, so I could live with that. Unlike a Bush or a Clinton, whom I consider one and the same in outlook. Some parts of Obama's platform lean more to the left than I think is useful for our whole population, which could be divisive, given the wrong set of financial circumstances. McCain's might end up being more middle of the road - and frankly, being an independent, I don't give a rat's patootie about "party lines" in a strict sense. So I need the nominee that will pull this thing together, during a really rocky ride.

Which throws me back to the optimism I feel when I listen to Obama. And that is a big deal for me, because I am a cynical old woman who doesn't get caught in bullshit easily. Despite his inexperience, and youth, I really like what I see.

There are plenty of real "issues", not Bosnia lies, not "oh my god he called someone sweetie" garbage that needs to be answered for me to decide. There is NO way this can be done with this Clinton three ring circus going on. I lean to Obama strongly, but yes, depending the serious issue debating which I eagerly look forward to, I would consider McCain. Watching them compete toe to toe on the issues that matter to each of us is the reason for this long electoral process. Some elections I don't give a crap what they are saying, because, well, we've had some ridiculous nominees on both sides. But this time listening won't be a complete waste.

If Hillary is the nominee, I will just vote McCain or a write in candidate, and dispense with listening to what she has shown me that she'd turn into a quarrelsome, nasty, divisive, "promise them anything to get elected" sort of deal. I am too old to give much more time to that sort of foolishness. And enough of my foolishness - I have opinions on a bunch of issues, and I expect candidates to let me know where they stand on each, and then check out the whole picture before I figure out how to vote. And we have not even gotten to that process yet, due to Hillary acting like Huckabee enjoying the limelight for one last time before she goes on with her life. Waste of time, and money, and opportunity for the democrats; but not my call to make as to her leaving.

And speaking of that Huckabee - now there is another one that had he been the repub nominee, I wouldn't have voted for him any more than I would for Clinton. Wouldn't be anything to decide.

[fight4my3sons]

143. Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I can see where you are coming from now with a little background info.

[PA Democrat]

149. If you are concerned about the economy, please look at who McCain has chosen as his top economic

adviser: Phil Gramm, the very person who pushed through deregulation of the banking industry that has brought us the current mess.

I posted this article earlier, if you are interested in reading it, Here's a link:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08097/870634-176.stm

Here's a partial excerpt:

More to the point may be Mr. Gramm's aggressive efforts when he was chairman of the Senate Banking Committee to deregulate the banking and financial services industry. That culminated in passage in 1999 of a sweeping financial services law that tore down the Depression-era Glass-Steagall wall separating regulated commercial banks from largely unregulated investment banks. And little regulation was put in to replace it.

"We are here today to repeal Glass-Steagall, because we have learned that government is not the answer," Mr. Gramm declared at the time. " ... We have learned that we promote economic growth and we promote stability by having competition and freedom."

To many liberal economists, Mr. Gramm's efforts set the stage for the current crisis. Lending by noncommercial banks has soared, to about 70 percent of total lending. Investment banks, including Bear Stearns, grew too large to be allowed to fail. And, said James Galbraith, a University of Texas economist, investment banks helped create the exotic financial instruments that turned subprime mortgages into tradable securities.

"Phil Gramm's career was as the most aggressive advocate of every predatory and rapacious element that the financial sector has," Mr. Galbraith said. "He's a sorcerer's apprentice of instability and disaster in the financial system."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08097/870634-176.stm

[DeschutesRiver]

150. Thanks for the link PA Democrat

Very interested in reading that link. No, I hadn't realized that Gramm was McCain's economic advisor, and that is not a good thing. Esp. given McCain's admitted lack of understanding in this area.

DH had listened in part to one of Obama's economic speeches - and said to me that Obama had said that while we needed economic reform, it probably wasn't necessary to go as far as resurrecting things like Glass-Steagall (not those exact words, but along that line from his quick listen). Which concerned us both. DH is a lawyer too, and we got into a rather lively debate over banking laws, past, & present as a result. I will share that article with him - seems like both nominees will need to speak much deeper about this whole financial situation. If they can, or of course, only if they perceive that they need to do so. I am wondering how detailed they will need to be to convince voters at this point, when things are not even close to as bad or widespread as it will likely become later. If voters just focus on who will give jobs, who will give handouts, who will protect them from being ousted from their homes, but without understanding how we got to this point, then no deep discusions will ensue.

And during campaign season, deep discussions often get them into deep doo-doo at the polling booths. Doesn't make for good 5 second sound-bites either.

[PA Democrat]

152. You are welcome.

It really is about regulating banking/ Wall Street. Phil Gramm was part of the problem as to how we got here. I can't see him as part of the solution.

Things have changed so much since the repeal of Glass-Steagall that I don't think it would be possible to reinstate that law, because the banking industry has evolved so much over the past 8 years. It probably would take brand new regulation. What that would look like, I don't know.

Welcome to DU, BTW.

[DeschutesRiver]

155. Thanks for the welcome

and I agree about just a blanket reinstatement of G-S not being feasible. To be fair, Obama may have well had more to say on the subject after that line DH heard, but dh didn't have time right then to listen more.

Here's hoping there is more, cause I can't imagine either what is needed reg-wise, and I'm been spending a lot of time thinking about this.

[Mooney]

33. I agree completely.

I thought he was going to get eaten alive. I even thought it might be good for him --- it would toughen him up for his "real" presidential run in 8 years. And I thought that Hillary would knock him out without so much as laying a glove on him. I didn't expect this to go on past Super Tuesday either.

If you had told me a year ago that this novice with a funny name was going to pose any kind of threat to Hillary Clinton's candidacy, I would have laughed in your face. Yet there he is. Without even appearing to break a sweat, he has somehow ended up with more delegates than Hillary and twice as much money. And what must be the most galling thing to her is that he did it all by following the rules.

[pipi_k]

35. And yet, I fear...

that perhaps Obama may be a little bit TOO competent...

What I mean by that is, maybe Bill was an aberration on a Presidential landscape seemingly littered with incompetence.

Looking back, it almost appears that the large majority of the American voters don't really want someone who's literate, eloquent, and competent.

It still makes me sick, all these years later, to think of how a crude little buffoon like GWB got chosen over the likes of Al Gore....then John Kerry. I'm sick of hearing about how GWB is "really smart" but doesn't show it. Yeah, well...weasels are pretty smart too, in their own ways...

Anyway, my point here is that I was glad to see my own feelings about Hillary put into words I couldn't find myself. I knew there was something I didn't like, and you've described it perfectly. Desperation is not attractive.

And I also fear that when the time comes and Obama is the Democratic nominee, he will end up losing to McCain because of threats from the other side from people who insist they'll either stay home on voting day, or write in their own candidate. And then America will have gotten...once again...the President it secretly wants. An elderly incompetent who was against MLK day before he was for it...who flips and flops on so many issues it's hard to know what he really stands for.

Four more years of Republican crap.

yippee ~insert sarcasm here~

[DeeDeeNY]

50. You used the correct word

"Chosen". GWB was not fairly elected either time.
Assuming the elections are fairly run and fairly counted this time, Obama will win.

[liberaldem4ever]

36. Great post-happy to K&R

[atal]

37. K & R

[mcollier]

38. Be Prepared - Its Coming - But Stay Focused

The relentless attempt of the "Powerful" to create distraction, separation and division by use of racial suggestion is the oldest tool in the art of war against ordinary people. Rise above this, look to something new, something better, something real, something good.

Recognize the ability of Barack Obama to bring people of all backgrounds together for the betterment of our Country and our World...

Unfortunately, the same tool of racism is being used to try to destroy what we see can be....



Several real problems:

Credit Card interest rates: Get the DVD "MAXED OUT" Must See Documentary...

Transportation Costs: Truckers are now spending $900 to fill up their tanks; 1/3 of operating cost of airlines are fuel. Just everyday people's cost of getting to and from work (but everyone feels this)...

Baby Boomer Generation retiring at the same time when they are seeing their life's savings (retirement and 401k) drop like a rock.

Food Costs - Grocery store visits are getting much more painful...

Energy Costs - BGE (Baltimore Gas & Electric) slapped near an 70% increase in energy charge rates to consumers... OUCH! And really now competiton...

Fewer "Living Wage" Jobs... Fewer "None Living Wage" Jobs...: Over 200,000 jobs cut in first qtr 2008... Many more on the way out.

Rent is way up. Foreclosures are way up. Property values are way down. Interest Rates for consumers are still up (6.35%) or so, despite the government significantly lowering interest rates for banks and investment firms... The Feds poured a trillion dollars into the financial markets over the past 8 months, and much more to come... Where did this money come from and who's going to pay for it?

People with poor credit, can't get credit to bail themselves out of the mess, The Great Depression sets in... From Family to Family...

The War In IRAQ... Talk about an "Ear Mark" Spending $10 to $12 Billion a month on an experiment gone bad... "Hello, Washington we have a fire raging in America, Hello...Hello?


We have an Administration that has so FUBAR'ED America's:
Financial Policy
Energy Policy
Foreign Policy
Domestic Policy


Find answers at: www.barackobama.com

[liberalcanuck]

40. I literally cringe when she starts recanting one of her stories

I think she's a great improvisational speaker. She's most in her element when she's talking about the issues but whenever she uses one of these stories to personalize and emphasize her main argument she fails abysmally. The sincerity just isn't there.


And her story about meeting Dr. King and how upset she was about his murder (about two years before becoming a "Goldwater girl") :puke::puke::puke:

[Bonobo]

41. "I don't recognize Hillary anymore"

You're not the only one.

K&R

[Bonobo]

42. Reminds me of this "DIrector's Joke". Maybe you have heard of it. It refers to bad line readers.

"Look up at the road! A head!"

as opposed, of course to,

"Look up at the road ahead!"

[cliffordu]

77. Like that writer's joke....

Eats, shoots and leaves.

[Bonobo]

79. Never heard that one. Thanks.

BTW, you were spot on about the "actor's mistakes".

As a sometime director, I recognized the same. She is a bad actor and should just stop and tell the truth. It is easier.

[SwampG8r]

98. bonobo ...

i know that one but its very un pc if you want it
and it is funny
drop me a pm ill send it over

[cliffordu]

147. The one I heard had to do with a koala bear, and wasn't un pc....

a koala bear eats shoots and leaves....

then he walks into the forest. He eats, shoots, and leaves...

[SwampG8r]

162. mine has a koala bear and a hooker

[cliffordu]

165. LOL!!

:rofl:

[SwampG8r]

167. i think that the joke must have written itself for you lol

[Dystopian]

44. Beautifully written piece....K&R...eom

Thank you...


peace~

[Swamp Rat]

45. k&r

[1776Forever]

46. HRC says Penn is "brilliant, intense, shrewd and insightful" in her book -

PowerPointer With Data and Slides, a Pollster Guides Campaign Strategy

By Anne E. Kornblut
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, April 30, 2007

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/29/AR2007042901661.html

(snip)

In the four months since Clinton officially became a candidate, Penn has consolidated his power, according to advisers close to the campaign, taking increasing control of the operation. Armed with voluminous data that he collects through his private polling firm, Penn has become involved in virtually every move Clinton makes, with the result that the campaign reflects the chief strategist as much as the candidate.

If Clinton seems cautious, it may be because Penn has made caution a science, repeatedly testing issues to determine which ones are safe and widely agreed upon (he was part of the team that encouraged Clinton's husband to run on the issue of school uniforms in 1996).

If Clinton sounds middle-of-the-road, it may be because Penn is a longtime pollster for the centrist Democratic Leadership Council whose clients have included Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.).

If Clinton resembles a Washington insider with close ties to the party's biggest donors, it may be because her lead strategist is a wealthy chief executive who heads a giant public relations firm, where he personally hones Microsoft's image in Washington.

And if some opponents see Clinton as arrogant, her campaign a coronation rather than a grass-roots movement, it may be because of the numbers wizard guiding her campaign and the PowerPoint presentations he likes to give on the inevitability of his candidate.

Yet Penn also has everything that Clinton would want in a senior consultant: undisputed brilliance and experience, according to even his enemies; clear opinions, with data to back them up; unwavering loyalty; and a relentless focus on the endgame: winning the general election. And Clinton clearly adores him. She describes Penn in her autobiography, "Living History," as brilliant, intense, shrewd and insightful.

..............

Sounds to me like Penn and the Clinton's go together like a horse and carriage, and a lot like what you wrote about! I am right with you ....

[juno jones]

63. "brilliant, intense, shrewd and insightful."

Isn't that pretty much what Ignatius J, Reilly says about Miss Trixie in Confederacy of Dunces?

Can't help but laugh, early morning, coffee flying and hoping someone else has read the book....:P

[cliffordu]

80. I haven't thought about that book in a couple years....

Looks like I'm going to Powells' website after all....

:hi:

[1776Forever]

81. I never read the book but found this remark on wikipedia about Miss Trixie -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Confederacy_of_Dunces

Miss Trixie is an aged clerk at the Levy Pants office who suffers from senile dementia. Mrs. Levy thinks she's doing a good deed by keeping Miss Trixie employed, although Miss Trixie would rather retire. Moreover, Miss Trixie is a liability to the company and repeatedly demands a holiday turkey and ham, both of which were promised to her and not given.

.........

LOL - I can see the comparison of the two - the only difference is Penn got a BIG ham and a turkey too!!!

Thanks!
:headbang:

[SwampG8r]

99. me me i did

great book

[Whisp]

47. Excellent post! we'll need someone extraordinary...

big dark coming, shit/fan.
we will need someone sane for the more crazy coming down.

[SaveAmerica]

51. Are you ready to rumble!?! I think so many people agree with you and had

the same series of emotion changes regarding the Clintons. Barack Obama has done an excellent job.

[ecstatic]

52. You nailed. I thought the exact same thing

Was more for Hillary in the beginning. EXCITED about her. Switched on 2/18 when her dirty tactics got to be too much.

[RiverStone]

53. How very presidential of him!

That is just some of the reason he will be our nominee. :hi:

[RoadRage]

56. Fantastic Post - K&R

[tblue37]

57. Here is my take on Obama's greatest strength as a candidate:

Some weeks ago I read a post by someone who had been at an Obama speech when a woman in the audience near the stage passed out. Medics rushed to help the woman, and the speech stopped while they dealt with her.

The writer of the post pointed out that Obama behaved in a way that he could not imagine any other politician behaving. He stood quietly, arms crossed, at the side of the stage and watched until the medics had finished their work, saying nothing until he was able to let the crowd know when the woman began to move and seemed to be all right.

The poster pointed out that Obama’s ability to stand quietly and say and do nothing to draw attention to himself at a point when he really was not what mattered is unusual in a politician and could only come from being at ease in himself and willing to tolerate not only the lack of attention but also silence where silence was appropriate.

Think of all the ill-at-ease people you know (perhaps yourself included) who can’t help but fidget nervously or chatter under such circumstances—or any circumstances. That would not be Obama.

Studies done in the 1960s showed that among groups of people, the true leader is always the one who is the “center of stillness,” the one who moves and talks least. That is because he has nothing to prove, and others are scrambling for his approval.

I was an early Edwards supporter, and I still like Edwards very much. I finally moved to Obama when Edwards dropped out, but this anecdote, combined with the many occasions when Obama has responded with that deep, unflappable, self-assured “stillness,” even when under attack, cements my enthusiasm for this man.

One of the things that drove me nuts about Gore’s campaign in 2000, and that upsets me about Hillary’s, is how easily his campaign was (and hers still is) stampeded. It feeds into the media narrative that they don’t know who they are, are not comfortable in their own skin, and even that they are liars. Even the story about Hillary's “kitchen sink” strategy suggests a panicked, stampeded response to pressure.

One of the most appealing things about Gore now, aside from his idealistic efforts to do what needs to be done and to teach the world what needs to be done and how to address the problems, is that he no longer seems flappable.

I think presidential campaigns create a very pathological bubble situation, and that otherwise wonderful people, especially when they are surrounded by consultants who tack with every breeze as indicated by nonstop polling, end up betraying their own principles or, at the very least, looking as though they are willing to adopt any mask that any consultant offers to them.

One of the most attractive things about Obama is that he seems not to be under the sway of consultants like Mark Penn. He knows who and what he is, and he maintains a steady presence in the face of changing circumstances. It’s not that he can’t adjust to circumstances, as his race speech in response to the Wright brouhaha indicates, but that he responds quietly and comfortably as himself, not as some media consultant’s fabricated version of the candidate the voters want to see that day.

As detestable as George W. Bush is, one of the things that voters have always said they liked about him is that he seems to stand fast for what he believes. Frankly, I doubt that is true—he is just stubborn; intransigent, not steady—but he comes across to the average voter as steadfast and unswayed by the polls.

[ginnyinWI]

60. "I'm skinny but I'm tough"--Barack Obama

I really think he is tough. And he knows himself well, and how he relates to the wider world. That's why he can stand quietly in front of a large group with complete confidence. And from the look of it, he's running a tight campaign--directing the tone from the top, listening to good people, staying on top of things, looking ahead.

The other campaign is sloppy, steps its foot into messes time after time, and has trouble recovering. Many times they simply wait until time causes a mistake to fade without really fixing it. The candidate is in the roll of a saleswoman--always has to promote an image. Doesn't believe that just being herself is good enough. One minute she's kind, and the next minute a dragon breathing fire. Makes the public distrust who she is--and that's the worst thing for a candidate. Agree or disagree, you have to be able to believe the candidate is who they say they are.

[trevjr]

112. Let us not forget

that when the Wright business started, Obama's advisors advised him NOT to give that speech. Obama overruled his advisors and wrote the speech himself. He himself said that he had no idea of what the political consequences would be. In other words, he thought it was more important to give that speech than to be president, he took that risk and look at where it got him. At the same time, hillary started to lie about Bosnia, got others to back up her story until the video came out. I have not heard any retractions from those who backed up hillary's story. Where are they?

[zingaro]

172. Excellent points.

So true, on the Gore thing as well. Thanks for sharing those thoughts.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

58. you, and we - met the real Hillary

think back to when she made a 1000% profit off of cattle futures?

We have met the real Hillary - and she is fake.

[RazBerryBeret]

62. Excellent Post!

and seriously when you compare and contrast where they were when they started this campaign and where they are now. It's no contest. Hillary started with the "clinton machine" the best advisors money can buy and backers with the deepest pockets. Obama had some wealthy backers, but not much name recognition, a funny name and the beginnings of a grass roots organization. Look at what he's done.

Considering the shape our country is in today, there's no question in my mind who needs to drive this bus.

[juno jones]

64. Great piece (and thanks for turning me on to Bundini...)

K&R, Thank you.

[WillyT]

73. Big K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

:bounce::kick::bounce:



Bundini with Ali.

:hi:

[cilla4progress]

66. Sweeeeeeeeeeeet!

Very nice to wake up to this morning! I think you nailed it cliffordu; and the tone of this thread is, in large part, lovely. The paradox of Obama is on one hand he seems so bizarrely (!) normal. Like someone genuinely nice you work with, or lives in your neighbhorhood, or you deal with "commercially." On the other, he is out-of-this world thoughtful, bright, deep, eloquent. I love what it says about "us," (and Barack is the first to say so), that we see this in him and are drawn to it! We simply respond to smart, genuine, kind, thoughtful people. Who knew? :)

[cliffordu]

87. Thanks. The tone of almost all the replies is pretty nice, too....

:hi:


edited for speling (sic)

[K Gardner]

67. Beautiful.. ! K&R

[not_too_L8]

68. You say it soooo well

[mcollier]

70. A Must Read - Obama's Blueprint For Change....

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

Please Read It. Refer it to others asap.

[FightingIrish]

76. Obama had my vote because of his positions on the war

and our foreign policy. The competence his campaign has demonstrated that he can run our dysfunctional country. What a bonus that the logical choice also has that rare quality so lacking in our leaders, greatness.

K&R

[Colobo]

78. What a great post! Beautiful! Thanks, cliff!

[Rocky2007]

82. Excellent thread

Thank you cliffordu for posting an excellent diary and thread

.:kick: :yourock:

[stop the bleeding]

83. You're a good writer

I read your 1000th as well
:thumbsup:
:beer:

[cliffordu]

106. Thanks.

:patriot:

[Labors of Hercules]

84. Perfect post...

Mind if I bring this over to the Obama field office to share with the team?! Wonderful!

[cliffordu]

88. Please do!!!

THANKS!!!!


:patriot:

[me b zola]

86. K&R

[NOLALady]

89. Great Post.

Excellent thread. K & R:kick:

[metrodorus]

92. You're adopting right-wing talking points on Clinton

I'm not Clinton fan, but it amazes me how the left has swallowed whole the demented
fantasies about Clinton spouted by the right. You're echoing rignt-wing talking points.
Get a grip. Clinton is not Satan. And her stated policy positions are so close to
Obama's that it really doesn't matter. (In fact, her health plan is better.)

So get a grip, and stop doing the work of the right.

[TomBall Democrat]

96. There never was a vast right wing conspiracy

it was all in her head, right next to the sniper fire.

I can see clearly now. Her reign is gone.

End of story.

[sudopod]

105. I don't like these "Don't criticize so-and-so" comments

We should ALWAYS be willing to question authority.

Especially OUR authorities who are acting in the name of our ideals.

[DemVet]

97. Wait until the MSM...

...starts REALLY going after Obama if he gains the Nomination. He hasn't seen ANYTHING yet.

They'll rip him so hard Michelle will be crying her eyes out at night. There will be cries of racism and the American public will get fed up with it (Obama supporters' whining) so fast that they'll defect to McCain in droves. Count on it.

[cliffordu]

103. I don't think Americans are as stupid as you think they are.

If they were, Obama would be an afterthought by now.

[DemVet]

110. Well, I hope

you are correct, but I never count on the masses when it comes to intelligence, particularly after they've been "fed" by the MSM.

[scheming daemons]

113. You've been saying this for 3 months.... and when "Wright" broke, you said it louder still...

...and you were wrong then like you are now.

[DemVet]

163. Nope...the MSM is just waiting to rip Obama a new....well, you know.

[kmsarvis]

116. SO IN OTHER WORDS.....

WE SHOULD'NT NOMINATE HIM BECAUSE HE'S BLACK?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

118. How is it that you haven't made it to my ignore list yet?

I'll just be fixing that now.

[DemVet]

164. The ignore list is for those with weak debating skills.

[Major Hogwash]

179. She just fired Mark Penn!

That should change your mind some now, huh?

Poor decisions, poor management, poor choices - Hillary's trademarks of this campaign.
Hillary is not going to be the nominee.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

104. Links to the facts concerning your specious posit?

Hmmmm??

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kmsarvis]

123. HE FARES BETTER THAN CLINTON!!!!

Election 2008 National Head-to-Head Polls
John McCain (R) vs. Barack Obama (D)
Poll Date Sample McCain (R) Obama (D) Spread

RCP Average 03/24 to 04/05 - 44.6% 44.6% Tie

Rasmussen Tracking 04/02 - 04/05 1700 LV 48% 43% McCain +5%
Gallup Tracking 04/01 - 04/04 4433 RV 45% 45% Tie
CBS News/NY Times 03/28 - 04/02 1196 RV 42% 47% Obama +5%
Hotline/FD 03/28 - 03/31 799 RV 46% 44% McCain +2%
NBC/WSJ 03/24 - 03/25 800 RV 42% 44% Obama +2%
See More General Election: McCain vs. Obama Polls | Chart


John McCain (R) vs. Hillary Clinton (D)
Poll Date Sample McCain (R) Clinton (D) Spread

RCP Average 03/24 to 04/05 - 46.8% 44.4% McCain +2.4%

Rasmussen Tracking 04/02 - 04/05 1700 LV 48% 44% McCain +4%
Gallup Tracking 04/01 - 04/04 4433 RV 47% 45% McCain +2%
CBS News/NY Times 03/28 - 04/02 1196 RV 43% 48% Clinton +5%
Hotline/FD 03/28 - 03/31 799 RV 50% 41% McCain +9%
NBC/WSJ 03/24 - 03/25 800 RV 46% 44% McCain +2%

[sudopod]

102. Why yes

I am sure I want to recommend this thread.

[ooglymoogly]

107. "Nor do not saw the air too much thusly" kr nt

[ecdab]

109. Rumble, young man, rumble.

I certainly had more than a few questions about Obama's ability to take a punch going into this. He has certainly answered my questions, and done so in a very impressive manner. He also throws a pretty wicked counter punch and know how to work the body of his opponents.

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. We haven't had a candidate this skilled in - well, a very long time.

[NanceGreggs]

111. A great read, cliffordu!

:applause:


K & R!!!!!

[cliffordu]

119. I am most honored, Nance. Thank you!

:patriot:

[Perry Logan]

114. If Obama survives his fans, he can survive anything.

[BlooInBloo]

117. Extemporaneously, you mean, perhaps. Since you are an actor and all.

[cliffordu]

120. ya, we caught that....too late for me to edit or cover it up

or blame you for it.......

:hi:


edited for smugness

[futureliveshere]

122. Great post.. K&R

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[Major Hogwash]

125. I like this post because it is honest. You can tell it was written from the heart.

No bookbags were injured in the making of this post.

LoL

[cooolandrew]

128. A wonderful post. =)

[Scurrilous]

129. K & R

:thumbsup:

[stevenleser]

130. Obama Boomaye!!!! Obama Boomaye!!!!

LOL, is that too strong?

[cliffordu]

131. LOL!!! PERFECT!!!!!

:headbang:

:rofl:

[stevenleser]

134. LMAO, thank you, I was wondering if anyone would get it...

:toast:

[Cha]

132. Awesome post, cliff!

From my perspecttive with hilary being my senator in New York I just knew it had to be anybody but her. Our country deserved better after the bushites.

I got on the Obamawagon later than some and earlier than others but my respect and admiration for him has grown leaps and bounds since I first started defending him on DU. I certainly wasn't there yet when Oprah took her show on the road to South Carolina but read DU on the different interpretations of that rally.

After I saw John Edwards wasn't going to make it in the finals I started investigating with the help of Obama supporters on DU and THEN I discovered "The Speech" that hilary spends her time mocking and I was in for the Long Haul!

[DemBones DemBones]

133. He will be. It's coming. The RW knows a lot that Obama supporters don't.

I've found out a good bit myself, but the RW surely has much more dirt on him than I do.

When he falls, it's going to hurt all black people because it will be many years, if not decades, before another black person will get close to being a presidential nominee.

I think that Obama is Dean's revenge on the Dems, revenge being best served cold.

[stevenleser]

135. Obama Boomaye!!!!! (n/t)

[cliffordu]

137. I dunno about that. What could be secret at this point?

If you KNOW something, maybe you'd like to share with the class......

[anigbrowl]

144. They don't know anything - it's just scarifying.

Standard 'pub tactic.

[ima_sinnic]

140. what a load of absolute utter CRAP

you really belong on some aryan nations forum, with your obsession with race, to begin with. Was it forever before a white man could run again after any of them lost? What a dumbass thing to fucking say about the consequences of a black person losing the nomination. as though his race were the ONLY element of his character, personality, experience, qualifications, etc. that fucking mattered and he is the Black Everyman--what he says and does, or doesn't say or do, dooms an entire race. FUCK YOU!

and your overriding pessimism--"when he falls"--not IF, but when, as though you are Nostradamus and all-knowing.

your gleeful obsession with DIRT is another disgusting trait of yours.

you've made it pretty obvious that you are an EXPERT ON WHAT THE RIGHT WING "KNOWS." and judging from your posts over the last several years, I don't have to guess why. you are like the bride at every funeral, the corpse at every wedding--OUT OF PLACE--but manage to avoid being TS'ed just by being a skillful poseur.

[FrenchieCat]

193. That's it! You've got the bag of bones poseur down pat......

And now I will put him on ignore, as it is evident that he has nothing of any redeeming value to say. If we all did it, he'd be talking to himself and his ilk.

[Kitty Herder]

138. Great post!!

:applause: :applause:

[stevenleser]

141. Link to Ali Boomaye in case anyone is interested

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N44vdCqI7LI&feature=related

[otohara]

142. Same Here

except I didn't vote for her because she started to unravel before our caucus - which as we all know by now, caucus states are meaningless.

[CaliforniaDreaming]

154. Awesome. Simply awesome. n/t

[sonias]

156. beauty of a post

Obama has indeed weathered the presidential blood sport.

He's going to be a fine President.

:applause:



Sonia

[izzybeans]

157. Here is an exemplar of your thesis. Off the deep end...up shit creek...seriously fucked would

also make good descriptions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5408667&mesg_id=5408667

[Qutzupalotl]

158. Well said, sir.

I concur fully.

[grantcart]

159. Just got home from a long trip and happy to read your post

I think the difference which stumps all of us is that Hillary tried a conventional campaign trying to package herself and Obama is trying to show us how he thinks and is so centered that he isn't worried about projecting an image but revealing who he is.

rec

[cliffordu]

160. Thanks, Grantcart,

I am honored.

I agree totally. Hillary hired acting and voice coaches, Obama worked as an advocate on the streets and the folks down here will chew your ass off if they detect one fake note.

:patriot:

[MadMaddie]

166. I agree with you and your wife

With as much experience that she has...how in the world could she make such catastrophic blunders? How could she surround herself with old school staff?

The Bosnia snafu...she went with SINBAD the comedian. There was actual film footage of the event...and other numerous witnesses. She has enough staff to review the footage....if she was going to use this as proof of being in danger...why not validate it?

These mistakes are mistakes of an amatuer not a seasoned professional. I just don't get it.

Before anyone calls me a Hillary basher....I voted for her in the WA caucus but I have been dissapointed ever since then.

[cseper]

168. Remember, all Obama's troubles aren't the fault...

...of the clinton's campaign. Have you forgotten about Drudge and the right-wing crowd? Going to the Trinity Church was Obama's decision.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

169. Fantastic post!

[disndat]

170. Mark Penn/Buson-Marsteller

looked at their HC polls and said to themselves, "Forget HC's campaign." We will go back to our day job of clients for union busting and jobs outsourcing.

[mrcongojack]

171. Where's the Beef?

When will Hillary unleash this tidal wave of dirt she's stored up? She hinted at it back in November, but so far all we've seen is dirt on people associated with Obama, with very little on him. He weathered the Wright scandal beautifully.

http://celestina.newsvine.com/_news/2007/02/13/566354-digging-dirt-on-obama This is one of the latest articles I could find regarding dirt on Obama. I think that Wright was a big chunk of what Hillary or the "right-wing conspiracy" had on Obama, if not the entirety.

[Brigid]

173. Great post!

I am so excited about Obama these days! Can't wait to see him debate McCain; Obama will destroy him. :)

K & R. :kick:

208 recommendations now. Is that a record?

[cliffordu]

175. I'm astonished. And grateful....THANK YOU ALL!!!!

:grouphug:




:patriot:

[Shae]

176. Very well said.

I barely recognize her anymore.
Even though I voted for Obama on February 11, it was essentially a coin toss that came down on Obama's side.
Since then, I've watched the two candidates fairly closely. Obama has gone way up in my estimation, Clinton has gone way down.
If the way they run their campaigns is any indication of the way they would run the White House, Obama is the best choice by far.

[GalleryGod]

177. Best POST in MONTHS! K&R !!

Waitin' on the Clintons in a hot LZ is not where I'd like to be !

Obama wil be a-peckin' & a-pokin' for ALL 15 rounds!

[Wetzelbill]

178. Keep the camera moving, cuz Obama's kind of fast

:rofl:

[Missouri Blue]

180. I hope the party is right choosing Obama

Because the country we win back this time is badly broken and in need of a master statesmen.

And so far, he is showing that he might just be that.

Whereas Hillary (backed by Bill) never showed any such thing.

[Radio_Lady]

181. Thank you for your thoughtful and generous post. Here's a summary of my position:

Frankly, we're still concerned about Obama -- great oratory, but very young and still troubling us with the possibility of "all hype and little action." Forgive me if we just can't get on the bandwagon yet.

In the election year 1972, I predicted on my call-in radio program in Boston -- that there would be a black male elected President of the United States BEFORE a white woman or a woman of any other race would achieve the office.

It looks as if my own prediction could easily come true. But a junior senator of Illinois in his first term? Younger than my oldest stepdaughter? Is that our best bet while confronting an aging white male who has been around forever and who has shifted positions so much in his years in office?

Senator John McCain was lauded for surviving his years as a POW. He used to be called a "Republican maverick." We did originally SUPPORT McCain (enough to make a couple of small contributions) and felt he might be a better choice than GWB. We were registered independents in Massachusetts when we lived there.

Clincher: Today, we support Hillary Rodham Clinton. That might change by next month. Our mail-in Oregon primary is May 20th, my 69th birthday is May 31, my husband will be 74 on June 23. We are old enough to remember many former presidents, and, of course, it goes without saying that GWB is the worst ever.

In November 2008, we will support the Democratic ticket without fail. I just don't want us to tarnish either of these fine candidates in the process of making this Hobson's choice.

Cordially,

Radio Lady in Oregon

[cliffordu]

184. I appreciate your thoughtful reply, Radio Lady -

But: (you knew that was coming, I'll bet....)


If you take the fact that he is an honest to god Constitutional law professor who organized a political campaign that has all but defeated the best that the rest of the Democratic party can muster, then he might be more politically savvy than any of us thought last year.

Thanks again,
Clifford

[Radio_Lady]

185. K&R for your post, along with 216 others I see. One quick question:

Question: What does the striped ribbon avatar on your post mean? I see a lot of them here, and assume it's military. Is there a guide to the different ones for us non-military laypeople? Years ago, I think we used to refer to them as "fruit salad" worn on the uniforms of the military higher-ups. If that is a derogatory term, I beg your pardon.

Nice to meet you on the DU!

:hi:

[cliffordu]

187. It's a Vietnam Service Medal.

I am very proud of it, and proud of the one I have here at home, too.

And fruit salad is just fine

:hi:






:patriot:

[Radio_Lady]

190. Thanks, cliffordu, for your service, and the explanation, too.

Oh, you're in Seattle... one of the world's greatest cities. Walk right down the hill to the waterfront -- excellent! But then you have to trudge back UP THAT HILL to your hotel -- from Pike's Marketplace to the Renaissance Hotel on Madison Street where we usually stay. That'll get your heart pumping!

We considered moving to the Seattle area, but the software analyst jobs my husband and son-in-law found when we made the move from Boston -- were in Portland, Oregon.

For six months, from August 31 to December 31, 2000, my husband had a contracting job for Harland Corporation in Milton, WA, just south of Federal Way. We rented an apartment at Surprise Lake Village and had our little home-away-from-home on Enchanted Way. We spent four days each week in WA, and drove home to OR for a three-day weekend, then back on Sunday night. My husband walked to work and put in four ten-hour days. During the time we were away, our daughter who lives in the same Oregon town as we do -- had a little boy (her second child) on 12/01/00. We hugged him the next day -- an extra drive that was marked with great joy!

Have a wonderful week!

Cordially,

Radio Lady in Oregon

[cliffordu]

191. Actually -

I'm out on the Olympic Peninsula - Port Townsend - where they filmed "An Officer and a Gentleman"

But no one knows where that's at.....

We're kind of getting off topic about this......so


:hi:

[Radio_Lady]

192. Wow! Just learned a thing or two about Port Townsend --

-- and look where it is! Thanks for the neat conversation tonight!

http://ptguide.com/maps/index.html

[Zhade]

183. Gobama.

NT!

[AZBlue]

189. Great post and interesting viewpoint from an actor.

As for Sen. Clinton...I just don't know. It's like there are two of her - the one from before and the one now. Or are we just seeing the real Clinton now and the other one was a fake. Of the two, I'd say the first option is the "lesser of two evils."

[FrenchieCat]

195. Excellent!

I wanted to like and support and vote for Hillary, I really did. I didn't start paying true attention to the primaries until I realized that Wes Clark wasn't going to run. When Wes endorsed Hillary, for whatever reason, I wasn't ready to go there with him. And so, I started shopping. This was after Oprah and all of that....and as a Black woman, Obama being Black didn't sell me (in fact, both Obama and I are mixed--although my story started in Paris a few years earlier than Obama's birth). Still as much as I had in common with his life story, none of it really connected with me. But then I listened to him, and that is what did it. It wasn't the press, the money raised, or his race that made me choose him as my candidate; it was what he had to say and how he communicated that to me. From that point on, I researched him.....and I will say, he's gotten better with each passing day. In contrast, I am deeply disappointed in both Hillary and Bill Clinton. I didn't believe some of what I have witnessed coming from them, but I have to believe my lying eyes.

[cliffordu]

196. Thanks, FrenchieCat -

I'm honored.

Early on I kept thinking Obama couldn't be that smart and well read on so many subjects - but he just keeps astonishing me with what he does know as matter of fact and the way he approaches extremely complex issues, the way he breaks them down for 'regular folks' without talking down to them. It shows his experience teaching Constitutional Law, of all things, and his view of people as people rather than a means to an end.

I just hope he gets the Congress he needs.

:hi:.

[FrenchieCat]

197. With the energized voters out there.....I'm positive that he is the candidate

with the best chance for coattails on our side. I don't even doubt that.

Have you read Obama's first book yet? Cause that will elevate your thoughts on him like 110%. It is an intimate book, and he is a fabulous writer; reads like an novel!

[cliffordu]

198. Nope I haven't read it yet. (Blush) I should be ashamed.

I was supposed to get that from a friend. I'll call them in the morning.

It's really going to be nice to have a President smarter than my Brother in Law.

[knixphan]

200. westerners

used to look at asian martial artists and think they were 'soft'

and there is 'soft' kung-fu.

it is KUNG-FU nonetheless.

Barack has strong Tai-Chi.

Rumble.