Since the Pope thinks Dubya is the Anti-Christ, how does he sanitize

[genius]

the Vatican after Dubya leaves? If not Catholic so I'm not familiar with the procedure.

[iconoclastic cat]

1. I thought the Pope was on W's side on many topics?

Didn't they hang out not too long ago?
Now, wait a minute: The Catholic bishops are blasting Democrats and trying to trash them on gay rights, etc.; are they out of step with their pontiff? Is the Pope ticked at the bishops, Bush, or both?
Confused.
Do you have articles?

[ElaineinIN]

4. Both

The Catholic Church has actually long been against the death penalty and has been very critical of welfare "reform" and gutting poverty programs. More recently, the Pope has got real problems with Iraq, I believe. However, the US Catholic bishops can't seem to see past the bedroom, and are just obsessed with abortion, gay rights, contraception, etc. As a result, they leverage what influence they might have to these causes, and neglect the ones that are, in my opinion, more pressing and really need its attention and help.

Yours sincerely, a former Catholic

[Dookus]

The church has NOT

long been opposed to the death penalty. The current catechism still allows for it.

[Gato Moteado]

2. did the pope really say this?

if so, is there a link to the story?

[genius]

7. He's said it more than once. Check out the Democrat yahoogroups.

I know that there has been a lot of discussion there about the Pope's comments about Bush.

[ElaineinIN]

8. You're right... but

You're right, the current catechism certainly does allow for the death penalty as follows:

para 2266 Preserving the common good of society requires rending the aggressor unable to inflict harm. For this reason the traditional teaching of the Church as acknowledged as well founded the right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalities commensurates with the gravity of the crime, not excluding, in cases of extreme gravity, the death penalty....

para 2267 If bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect pubic order and the safety of persons, public authoirty should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

I think though that most modern (and I recognize that "long" and "modern" are relative terms with regard to a church that's been in around since the Council of Trent, if not earlier)clergy in the US and the Pope have taken the position that bloodless means are generally sufficient and the death penalty is disfavored. See, for example, the Declaration of the Holy See to the First World Congress on the Death Penalty, 21 June 2001: The Holy See has consistently sought the abolition of the death penalty and his Holiness Pope John Paul II has personally and indiscriminately appealed on numerous occasions ... (full text at Vatican website)

See also A Good Friday Appeal to End the Death Penalty
A Statement of the Administrative Board of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops April 2, 1999: "For more than 25 years, the Catholic bishops of the United States have called for an end to the death penalty in our land.....Through his powerful encyclical, The Gospel of Life (Evangelium Vitae), Pope John Paul II has asked that governments stop using death as the ultimate penalty. The Holy Father points out that instances where its application is necessary to protect society have become 'very rare, if not practically nonexistent...'" (full text available at US catholic bishops website)

Trust me, I'm no apologist for the Church, as I left it in utter disgust, but at least the current Church is against the death penalty in practice.

[Hornito]

3. I believe the only thing that will handle an anti-Christ, is the same

as that needed for vampires: a silver stake through the heart. Think John will oblige, and save the world?

[comradebillyboy]

5. holy mother, the church

has been dealing with pols of all stripe for the last couple of milennia. the church is very pragmatic. they have seen lots worse than bush.

[marialicht]

6. Check out the New York Times editorial by John Allen

Link http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/03/opinion/03ALLE.html?th

Allen, the Vatican correspondent for the National Catholic Reporter, a liberal weekly paper, is very savvy on the inside story of Vatican views of America's foreign policy. This editorial makes it clear that the Pope takes a dim view of our foreign policy, and our values, and may well let * know it. You have to register to read it, but it's worth it to get the image of W.'s knees knocking before the Pope.