Gun Control Policy Poll

[FeebMaster]

Poll question: Gun Control Policy Poll

This is all completely hypothetical since I don't see it happening in a million years, but I'm curious what people think on the subject.


Let's say Kerry, sometime between now and the election, announces that he's had a change of heart about gun control and would like to make these changes to the current federal gun control laws.

- He announces that he no longer supports the Assault Weapons Ban and will not work toward reinstating it assuming that it sunsets as scheduled in September or will work to repeal it if Bush renews it.

- He announces that he will work to repeal the Hughes' Amendment to the Firearms Owner's Protection Act.

- He will reverse the Bush 2 and Clinton Norinco Bans and the Bush 1 '89 Import Ban.

- He will work to change some or all of the import regulations in the Gun Control Act which, among other things, prevents the importation of US made arms like the Garand into the United States.


What would you do?

[freetobegay]

1. hypotheticals & $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

Kerry has my vote no matter what!

[THUNDER HANDS]

21. really?

That's a deal at Starbucks!

:D

[mom cat]

2. Way too hypothetical. If that were to happen, I would buy a gun.

[billbuckhead]

3. Kerry won't do this and with the RepuKKKEs imploding won't need to.

The Dems are going to take back the Presidency and Congress in a national cleansing of the government. One of the first first filthy viruses in the White House that needs disinfected and washed into the sewer is the NRA.

[JayS]

16. "disinfected and washed into the sewer is the NRA"

You sound suspiciously just like Kerry.....hmmmm. :)

I do wish Kerry would listen to the NRA instead of vilifying them. They could help him out not only with some errors he is making but just might win him some votes from amongst their membership. Instead he does that strange anti-NRA Tourette's Syndrome thing like the following:

Q: Do you find it necessary to kill animals for photo-ops?

A: I don't think the Democratic Party should be the candidacy of the NRA. And when I was fighting to ban assault weapons in 1992 and 1993, Dean was appealing to the NRA for their endorsement, and he got it. I believe it's important for us to have somebody who is going to stand up for gun safety in America and make certain that we make our streets safe, our children safe, and not allow people to get assault weapons in America.

Source: CNN "Rock The Vote" Democratic Debate Nov 5, 2003


As I said in another thread:

A few staged photos of Kerry with a shotgun is not going to convince gun owners that Kerry is their buddy. The 100% support he gets from the Brady Bunch is not exactly a help either, nor is his use of their information on his webpage. Going on tirades against the NRA does not help him win over their members nor does referring to an "assault weapon" as a "machine gun like those used in Afghanistan" show much military knowledge. Not knowing that the Assault Weapons Ban only outlawed some cosmetic features, that have since been removed and the guns are in the stores again, show much of a grasp of this red herring gun law. Kind of makes you wonder.

[Crachet2004]

4. It would mean more to all the people NOT on DU...

than it does to most of us, I'm sure. Don't know for sure how many extra states it would give us, but it would be at least several...the right to Bear is the bottom line with a lot of people, and the way things are going in this country, can you blame them?

I know I don't.

[Lefty Pragmatist]

5. Instructive, however

because it shows this is one of *those* issues: one side cares but not excessively, while the other side is obsessed.

On those issues, I personally vote to give ground. Conservatives in fact routinely give ground on social programs that they don't particuarly like but which we absolutely love. This is one issue where we could do worse than following suit.

Obviously, the really important issues (environment, choice, minimum wage, etc) where both sides are obsessed are off limits for log rolling.

[FeebMaster]

8. It's not so much Republican voters

that he could grab with something like this. They're hopeless. They think Bush is pro-gun for pity's sake. There's a lot of people who don't bother to vote anymore since both parties are so big on gun control and the war on drugs.

[formernaderite]

22. Absolutely...I know tons of Libertarians who would also vote Kerry...

...if this happened. I myself would be tickled pink. It's the only issue where I diverge with many on the left.

[FeebMaster]

7. That's pretty much what I was thinking.

I figure Kerry could potentially pick up a ton of votes at little to no cost. Of course, he'd have to follow through on the promises or the support would evaporate.

[JayS]

17. He would lose the support of the Brady Bunch. That would...

...cost him at least thirty or so votes. :)

And if he renegs...the 2006 elections will not be far off. :)

[TexasMexican]

6. I wish...

it would definately make me feel alot better about voting for Kerry.

[billbuckhead]

9. Kerry singled out the NRA with special contempt when he announced his

candidacy on the Navy ship in Boston Harbor. Slim chance Kerry will embrace assault rifle worshippers. Kerry will dance with those who brung him. Massachussetts and it's moderately strong gun regulations has one of the lowest homocide rates of large states and has nothing to apologize for.

[FeebMaster]

10. When has the NRA called for any of the things listed above

other than maybe letting the Assault Weapons Ban expire?

[billbuckhead]

12. So you're on a Democratic board defending the NRA?

Do you defend their blacklist? Do you defend the bigoted beneath contempt views of it's board memebers such as Grover Norquist, Ted Nugent, Wayne LaPierre, ad nauseum? As far as I'm concerned, the NRA is worse than Al Queda and kill and terrorize far more Americans than Al Queda. I have nothing but contempt for the GOA-NRA-rightwing militia crowd.

[FeebMaster]

13. Defending the NRA?

What are you talking about?

[FeebMaster]

23. I still don't understand

how pointing out that the NRA hasn't called for the repeal of federal gun laws other than allowing the Assault Weapons Ban to sunset is defending them.

If fact, I think the NRA has done more to hurt gun rights than any of the anti-gun groups.

[TexasMexican]

14. not an NRA member but...

I sympathise with them on some issue.

Correct me if I'm wrong but NRA members didnt fly planes into the WTC did they?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

15. I am 73/27 in favor of gun rights but I DO NOT support the....

bigoted NRA!!!!!!

N.R.A = "Nazis, Racists, Autocrats"

[weedthesmoke]

20. I hear this often here

I never see any links or documentation of the charges. Is there any chance you have a link to the charge of N.R.A = "Nazis, Racists, Autocrats"? It's really cute and clever but how about something that makes it stick.

[JayS]

19. I'll defend their blacklist. If you want to call it that. In other...

...organizations I am with we usually call it a boycott, but I know what you mean. That list has been around in some form or another for over twenty five years; I'm surprised Kerry just now noticed it.

[DoNotRefill]

25. I'll defend their "blacklist"....

just as I'll defend ANY organization's right to say "these people are opposed to what we hold dear, so boycott them if you wish."

You call it a "blacklist" when the NRA does it...do you call it a "blacklist" when animal rights groups or anti-gun groups or the NAACP does it? If you don't, how do you escape the hypocrite label?

Or are you trying to trash the First Amendment along with the Second?

[IndianaGreen]

29. I am a life member of the NRA and I loath the likes of Wayne LaPierre

There is a significant minority of NRA members that, while strongly believing in the right to bear arms, are rather pissed at the rightwing control of what used to be a non-partisan organization. I won't even mention at the crazy militia types that are members of our organization.

Why the NRA? As long as you have gun grabbers like Diane Feinstein you will have gun owners closing ranks against their type.

The NRA should return to its roots of advocating responsible firearms ownership, sensible state registration of guns, regulation of gun shows sales, promoting gun safety programs, and defending RTBA whenever it comes under attack.

The NRA should stop being used as a tool of the most extreme elements of the rightwing. The NRA should also adopt a more balanced approach: the threats to our liberties posed by PATRIOT Act are far greater threat to freedom than the assault weapon ban.

Of course, we will continue to disagree as to the proper role of the federal government when it comes to regulating guns: zilch, nada.

Armed gays don't get bashed!

[TexasMexican]

11. Massachussetts is a large state?

I dont believe that I've ever heard of it referred to as such till I read your post.

Well if Massachussetts' "moderately strong gun regulations" are responsible for its lowered crime rate, then why do we need the assault rifle ban.

Why not just let other states decide for themselves what type of gun regulation they want. According to you Massachussetts was able to do that for itself and it worked out alright.

[JayS]

18. Massachussetts is a large state? It does have an excessively...

...long name but I wouldn't call it large. Then again, I am in Texas so perhaps it is all relative. :)

How does Massachussetts compare to peaceful Vermont...with virtually no gun control?

[FeebMaster]

24. Well, I have to say

the results are pretty much what I was expecting, at least so far. Even here on DU Kerry could pick up a few votes at literally no cost.

[MessiahRp]

26. Gun control is not my issue

So I voted for Kerry still, BUT, I would be disappointed if he did that. I believe we need Assault Weapons Bans and it makes no sense to me why any gun user would think they actually need heavy firepower in their gun cabinets for any reason.

Handguns for protection, hunting rifles... fine I'm all good with that. We don't need to be arming lunatics with any assault weapons. I agree with background checks (at gun shows as well) to keep tabs on whether or not felons are getting their hands on guns as well.

I think having a weapon is fine. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to allow you to have weapons to hunt and protect yourself with. But when that amendment was written they had no idea of what weapons would exist today and the murdering ability they might possess. I think we ought to keep that in mind when making the gun argument.

I'm not a "Take all the guns away" liberal, but I do think limitssafeguard society from allowing some really deadly weapons from getting in the wrong hands.

Rp

[FeebMaster]

27. The assault weapons ban doesn't limit anyone's firepower.

It limits some of the accessories you can have on the firepower manufactured after it was enacted if you are a civilian. Also, most of the weapons covered by the ban fire an intermediate cartridge with far less power than your average hunting rifle. There is some overlap, of course, and some of the weapons affected by the AWB fire the same ammo as many hunting rifles.

"Handguns for protection, hunting rifles... fine I'm all good with that. We don't need to be arming lunatics with any assault weapons. I agree with background checks (at gun shows as well) to keep tabs on whether or not felons are getting their hands on guns as well."

No one is advocating arming lunatics with anything but sometimes perfectly normal, formerly sane, people that can pass a background check snap and go on a rampage, like the guy in the bulldozer in Colorado. It's probably best not to get into an argument over background checks, but consider this: If someone has a criminal record and can't pass a background check, do you think they are going to buy a gun in a place where background checks are required? Also, if someone has no criminal record and can pass a background check, but intends to commit a crime once he has a gun, a background check is not going to stop him.


"I think having a weapon is fine. The 2nd Amendment is supposed to allow you to have weapons to hunt and protect yourself with. But when that amendment was written they had no idea of what weapons would exist today and the murdering ability they might possess. I think we ought to keep that in mind when making the gun argument. "

The 2nd Amendment doesn't mention hunting. When that amendment was written, they might not have had an idea of what weapons would be available today, but they knew what was available at the time. Someone, a Duer I think but I don't remember who, made an interesting point a while back. When the 2nd Amendment was written, a gun shot wound was practically a death sentence, medical technology being what it was. Today, the vast majority of people who are shot survive. I think we should keep that in mind when making the gun argument.

[beevul]

28. When...

"But when that amendment was written they had no idea of what weapons would exist today and the murdering ability they might possess. I think we ought to keep that in mind when making the gun argument."

When the first amendment was written, they had no idea that the internet, broadcast television, modern telephones etc, would exist today and the ability they would have.

When the fourth amendment was written, they had no idea of what persons papers and effects would exist to be protected by it today.


Absolutely parallel. One can NOT apply the argument to just one amendment.

[Guaranteed]

38. We need assault weapons to protect ourselves

from our own government. Hunting? I don't give a shit. But the 2nd Amendment is there to protect the first.

I'm not pro-NRA. They take it way too far. I'm against CCW laws- they're downright idiotic. People carrying guns in public, GMAFB. That's not civilized. And I don't believe that people should be allowed to have grenades or anything other kinds of explosives.

But we need to make sure that at least a decent amount of firepower in case it comes to the point where our rights as Americans have been whittled down to the fine point of nothing. We have to be able to protect ourselves from ANYONE, particularly within our own homes. Assault weapons are necessary in that regard.

[JayS]

39. "People carrying guns in public"

We have had CHL in Texas for years; it is a large part of how Bush got to be Governor. Not many problems so far.

[cheezus]

30. Kerry could do all sorts of things and I'd still be ABB

I think this poll is misleading

[FeebMaster]

31. How is it misleading?

It's a fairly simple question. The options are as uniform as I could make them. Should I have put the options in a different order?

[dpbrown]

32. You know too much about "gun control issues"

This is just a list of wet-dream positions for gun nuts.

[FeebMaster]

33. What do you mean I know too much

about "gun control issues"?

How can you know too much about any issue? Isn't it better to be informed on an issue than to remain ignorant?

The list of positions leaves intact almost every federal gun law on the books other than the assault weapons ban and the various import bans invoked by executive order. I didn't even mention the NFA and barely touched the GCA other than some of the import restrictions.

[RaRa]

34. I'm ATBB

that's anyThing but Bush. I've always used my pro-choice position as guidance, but I'd vote for a fucking pro-life nut over Bush. Nominate a piece of bird shit? I'd vote for that over shrub. Can't shock me away from my position.

[PVnRT]

35. Keep in mind

90% of the people at this website will be voting for Kerry regardless, at least hopefully. So the results you get here aren't really indicative of the public at large.

Personally, I think the Democrats need to start playing down gun control - there are a lot of single-issue voters out there who's single issue is guns, despite the fact that they actually agree with Democratic party positions most of the time.

[FeebMaster]

36. That's pretty much what I figured

but it's interesting to see that even here on DU Kerry could pick up a few votes literally at no cost. Well, other than his principles I guess.

"Personally, I think the Democrats need to start playing down gun control - there are a lot of single-issue voters out there who's single issue is guns, despite the fact that they actually agree with Democratic party positions most of the time."

I think it's going to take a lot more than just down playing gun control to win over those single-issue voters. At best, down-playing gun control will keep them at home, it isn't going to win you many votes.

[Guaranteed]

37. I'd say GOOD MOVE, KERRY, and pat him on the back.

We've been on the wrong side of this issue for far, far too long. I don't know how the hell we can call ourselves liberals while destroying the 2nd Amendment.

Let's start defending the Bill of Rights in its entirety.

[FeebMaster]

40. I thought I'd gratuitously kick this to keep it up

near the other gun control poll.

[Wickerman]

41. I'll see your kick

[sangha]

42. Kerry would lose my vote

For him to do that would mean turning his back on years of Democratic support for reasonable gun control. It would mean more than that handful of bills you listed. It would mean the end of Dem support for gun control, and an end to all gun control.

[FeebMaster]

43. The end to all gun control?

Hardly. The things I listed barely scratch the surface of the federal gun control in the United States. Half the things I listed were given to us by the Republicans anyway. For all the talk about how pro-gun the Republicans are, they sure do pass a lot of gun control.

[sangh0]

46. Yes, the end to all gun control

You'll have to excuse me if I ignore your predictions. I've never been a big fan of fortune tellers.

[FeebMaster]

47. Predictions? Fortune tellers? What are you talking about?

You're going to have to explain how the repeal of a few of the dumber gun control laws on the books is the end to all gun control. I'm just not seeing it.


Besides, if the Democrats turn their backs on gun control, the gun grabbers will still have the Republicans. It is the Republicans, after all, that have passed the vast majority of the federal gun control in the last 25 years or so. In fact, if the gun grabbers precious Assault Weapons Ban is renewed before it sunsets, it will be signed into law by a Republican.

[sangh0]

48. "the gun grabbers will still have the Republicans"

Thats the sort of remark that leaves me questioning your thought processes

[FeebMaster]

49. It's quite simple.

For all the talk about the Republicans being pro-gun, it is in fact the Republicans that have given us quite a bit of the federal gun control on the books. The Republicans have by far passed more gun control in the last 25 years than the Democrats have at the federal level.

In 1986, Reagan signed the Firearms Owners' Protection Act, which banned the future civilian production of machine guns and froze the civilian supply at somewhere around a quarter million.

In 1989, Bush used an executive order to ban the import of 43 or so assault weapons. This had the effect of doubling the price of those weapons since they had to be assembled with a certain number of US made parts to qualify as being not imported. This also led to all those rifles with thumbhole stocks, since the weapons with the thumbhole stock were "sporting weapons" and the weapons without them were not.

As you can see, the ban on bayonet lugs and flash suppressors and a federally required background check on firearms purchases are nothing compared to these measures.

Oh, also, Clinton banned from import NORINCO made clones of military arms like the winchester 1897 and the 1911. The current Bush banned the rest of NORINCO's imports, firearms or not.


So you can see, if a person really wants gun control, especially gun control that is more effective than the Assault Weapons Ban, the thing to do would be to vote for Republicans, since they seem to be the ones passing it.

[sangh0]

50. You don't get out of a hole by digging faster

if a person really wants gun control, especially gun control that is more effective than the Assault Weapons Ban, the thing to do would be to vote for Republicans

[FeebMaster]

51. I don't understand what you mean.

There are people who want more gun control. There is a party that offers it, despite their rhetoric.

[JayS]

44. "reasonable gun control"

Can you tell us about any of these "reasonable gun control" measures that have actually and provably worked?

And no, Democratic support for the usual "brand" of gun control would not mean and end to all gun control. It would just mean the loss of a defective brand, and there are other brands out there.

[sangh0]

45. I'm sorry, but I'm not rabid about guns or gun control

I have no Pavlovian response to the formulaic arguments that both sides regularly trot out.

Can you tell us about any of these "reasonable gun control" measures that have actually and provably worked?

The one that got the Freeper who was stalking me arrested. It worked for me.

[JayS]

52. Pavlov is out playing with his dog. And you do not need...

...anyone else's talking points to answer the question.