I have been neutral for what feels like a lifetime

[Nightjock]

since Gore did not run and Edwards was (imo) forced out. I wish Hillary would have taken the high road with this "bitter" stuff in P.A.

SHE DAMN WELL KNOWS WHAT OBAMA MEANT AND THAT IT IS TRUE!!!!
I will still vote for either over McInsane of course, but I AM BEGINNING TO DISLIKE HER and I named my first born child after Chelsea because my wife and I admire her so much!


PLEASE STOP IT HILLARY! PLEASE! I don't want you to stop running if you truly feel you still have a chance, but this is too much B.S. and it is not helping the ultimate goal of chasing the warmongers out of Washington!

[jasmine621]

1. Wondering if you would be defending Hillary had she made identical comments?

Many people seem to give Obama a pass on statements that if spoken by either Bill or Hillary would have been rudely criticized by many DUers.

[futureliveshere]

2. I would have whole heartedly supported HRC if she had said this bcoz its TRUE!!!

Thats all that matters to me.

[ClayZ]

3. She could not make those comments.

Cause and Effect

"This world and yonder world are incessantly giving birth: every cause is a mother, its effect the child.

"When the effect is born, it too becomes a cause and gives birth to wonderous effects.

"These causes are generation on generation, but it needs a very well lighted eye to see the links in their chain."

~ Jalal ad-Din Rumi 1207 - 1273 CE

[Nightjock]

4. I would

without a doubt!

Even though I am a die hard Dem I feel like an outsider because I cannot get over excited about either one of them!
I was so disgusted my candidates were out I did not even vote in the New York primary! I have never missed a vote since 1980!

Please don't think this is a partisan thing. I have looked the other way with alot of b.s. I have seen from both sides, but when her people brought up the Reverend Wright thing again I started getting upset and now this?! It's too much!
I see Obama fighting on 3 different fronts now!

[TwilightGardener]

14. If Hillary had made these comments, I would have been stunned

by her refreshing honesty, her astute analysis of small-town Rust Belt culture and voting habits, and her lack of political calculation when making the remarks. Stunned.

[anonymous171]

15. It wouldn't have even been reported, probably.

[Ilithiad]

21. I agree....

If hillary said those comments the proverbial shit would hit the fan. At least cnn's political anaylist called it for what it was 10 out of 10 a bad mistake and one said it was an 11. It does not matter what he intended to say. What matters is how it will be percieved and if I was there when he said those words I would feel I was called a racist, religous and gun loving zealot that takes my frustrations out on people and not the government who created my jobless situation in the first place. I am appaled that so many Obama supporters just dont see the negative signifgance of those remarks. It does not matter if its true! No one is saying its a lie. They are saying its offensive. Obama himself said his words were chosen poorly. Why dont you Obama fans admit it. Your golden boy made a mistake so bad it could have dire repercussions. People will get angry about this and they will vent their anger at Obama and the democratic party because of association. Obama said his words were poor. Admit it Obama supports you were wrong to support these offensive appalling and in my opinion unforgivable words.

[justgamma]

5. I just wish that Hillary and Obama

would tag team McCain. I am tired of them ripping each other apart. Let us see how each would handle the GE. Then people who are on the fence could really decide who can win.

[IndependentDem]

9. I'm right there with you on this!! n/t

[zalinda]

6. The only thing that Obama meant was to make

himself look better to the SF crowd, who think rural people all live in trailer parks and have no teeth. It was pandering, pure and simple. Rural people are smart enough to know that if they don't have a job that it's not because they "cling" to their guns. It was a crap statement, and a way to put down the Clintons.

zalinda

[cali]

7. bullshit, he wasn't pandering

he was speaking a healthy dose of truth. And, yeah, I live in a poor rural area. Yes, he should have said it better, but he touched on the stuff that most DUers have been saying here for years.

[Faygo Kid]

13. Right on, cali.

To a Hillary supporter, the truth has become pandering.

It's clear - she can't handle the truth.

[zalinda]

16. Honey, you grew up in a 4000 square foot house

so you tell me about being poor. God and guns has nothing to do with being poor. He was talking to his base just like Bush was talking to his base, and just like Bush, he got caught. And now he is trying to wiggle out of it, and every one of his kool-aid drinking followers are spinning this line like crazy.

People in rural America is just like every other person in America. The have traditions that city folk don't have, like going to Starbucks and spending an obscene amount of money for crappy coffee. They value hard work and pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. They value family, community and church. They aren't stupid, they know who they are angry with, they aren't transferring it to someone or something just because.

Obama was saying that rural people are so stupid that when they get angry at their wife, they kick their dog. A very small percentage might, but the vast number of people don't. Yeah, he was pandering.

zalinda

[sniffa]

17. Well, many of Hillary's base are apparently stupid

if DU is any barometer.

And for what it's worth, I grew up in Section 8 housing - I know what it's like, and I know how people take out their frustrations on easier targets to them.

[Ilithiad]

26. Only the stupid...

and character flawed fuckups would take out their frustrations on those who did not create their problems

[sniffa]

28. Like I said, Hillary's base is stupid like that

:hi:

[cali]

18. actually

I grew up in a 10,000 sqft house. So what? I live in a 1,200 sqft house now in a poor rural community and I have done for over 20 years. Don't tell me about my neighbors and friends. I know they aren't stupid. I go to grange with them. My kid grew up with their kids. And I know exactly what Obama was saying. And it sure the fuck wasn't that rural people are stupid. you're as full of it as hillary.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

32. Do you have any idea what a right wing tool you just sounded like?

Anyone who uses the phrase "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" in earnest is a right wing tool.

Literally one of the most hateful and stupid ass memes in existence.

[Ilithiad]

25. Said it better?

He should have kept his golden tongued mouth shut! I am from rural america and I am massively offended! This has made me so angry I might go out and buy a gun and shoot an immigrant who is protrade and pray to god for forgiveness....Ugh his statements were fucking offensive! Admit it. He did.

[sniffa]

29. You shouldn't take out your frustrations on those who did not create your problems

It's a stupid and character flawed fucked up thing to do. :hi:

[cali]

31. Yeah? So the fuck what? I'm from rural America too

and I know exactly what he was saying, and I wasn't offended at all.

[sniffa]

34. Shhh

You're talking to a re-banned disruptor. :bounce:

[roseBudd]

19. He was simply stating why white voters vote against their economic self interest, AKA...

What's the Matter with Kansas

They vote GOP because

of the 2nd Amendment the GOP has framed Ds as "the take away your guns" people

because the GOP convinces them they must help win the culture war by voting bibically (GOP)

and because right wing talking points have them convinced illegal immigrants took their jobs, become xenophobic.

[TahitiNut]

27. You might not realize that the "SF crowd" probably has roots in those small towns.

Living there for 15 years, I thought it was remarkable how many of the folks in the "gold rush" came from smalltown America. I think folks who demean and dismiss the "SF crowd" don't have a clue about their origins.

[Liquorice]

8. What Obama said wasn't true. He said

"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not..."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

The problem is that Obama is lying about Bill Clinton's economic record.
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/states/Pennsylvania.html

I realize that he wants to say the 90's were bad because that helps him politically. He can't go around Pennsylvania reminding voters that during the Clinton administration over 500,000 jobs were created in Penn and that the unemployment rate went down by 3.2%. These facts do not help Obama at all, therefore he chooses to lie about them.

[JimGinPA]

10. Maybe So, But Here In Central PA The York Caterpiller Plant Closed...

AMP Inc. "downsized" (and outsourced) in Harrisburg and the Armstrong Industries Plant in Lancaster also "downszed" during the Clinton years, all of which caused quite a bit of "bitterness".

[Liquorice]

12. Well there's no such thing as Utopia. There will always be

people who lose their job, etc., even in good economic times. But during the Clinton years things were much better economically. Obama said that Pennsylvania lost jobs throughout the Clinton years, which is an outrageous lie.

[DerekJ]

20. Even NAFTA takes time to kick in.

[JimGinPA]

23. Well, I Can Only Speak On The 1000's Of Lost Jobs Around Here...

No new industrial jobs came to replace them. So unless you have information I'm unaware of, that any of these jobs that supposedly came to PA during that period replaced jobs in rural areas, I wish you'd share.

[ampad]

30. You got a link, a study, or proof that this is not true?

You know had this been said the other way around you would probably be saying there is a such thing as utopia. Oh by the way.... there may not be such a thing as utopia but the outsourcing of jobs, BK and foreclosure, gas prices and so on are at and all time high. Folks are not asking for utopia they are asking for a fair chance to get a leg up. The BK law was one way people could get a leg up but now folks cannot even file without the possibility of losing their homes. I guess Hillary wasn't too worried about those folks when she supported the new BK law now was she? All you Hillary people like for her to take what little positive that came from the Clinton years but poo poo off the bad. It doesn't work that way. NAFTA was the Clinton's baby and NAFTA is a problem for working folks in this country along with the new BK law which Hillary was all too willing to support. Oh and lets us not forget Columbia CAFTA as well. Utopia no, a fair shake in a free country yes. Bill Clinton may have been better than Bush but he was not a great president and some of his actions proved detrimental to the working class in this country. Gasp! yea I said it Bill was not an outstanding president.

[roseBudd]

22. but the dotcom bubble did not last & Clinton's record had a lot of luck thrown in

by being POTUS during the dotcom bubble

I have been in web type employment since 96 & the people with computer skills who were being hired so fast and so competitively created a vacuum in the other employment sectors that pulled lots of people into the job market at higher starting wages because the market was so tight.

[wndycty]

11. WOW, you definitely are not hater. . .

. . .but because you dared to have an objective opinion of Hillary some of her supporters will call you one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5468610

[mudesi]

24. You are stronger than I am

You're just beginning to dislike her? Give it a few more weeks. You'll eventually come to loathe her.

[AtomicKitten]

33. She stabbed Kerry in the back during the 2004 campaign.

She went off on him before a bank of microphones distorting statements he had made. She has no shame.