When I was a kid my neighbor called me over to help skin his deer.

[joshcryer]

I was about 13-14 and we'd only lived in this small town for about a year or so. We'd come from the big city and had a very big city attitude to us. So he wanted to show us scrawny brats what "real men" were about and wanted to get our reactions as he showed us how to skin a deer.

We went over, and at first sight I was disgusted, the idea of killing an animal, and then skinning it! But I knew what the old guy was trying to do. He was trying to make fun of us, mock us, see how long until we squirmed.

I watched carefully and we skinned that deer perfectly. After awhile it wasn't a deer but a slab of meat. Delicious meat. He gave us *half* the bounty (he, his wife, and his kid about our age couldn't eat a whole deer and it would've been portioned out to his friends anyway). He was completely taken aback by our adaptablity and willingness to belong to their culture. Yeah, city slicker punks can be down to earth with the rest of them (maybe not these days).

What a great day that was. Initially terrifying, cutting up an animal! But extremely instructive. Later on I learned how to shoot, and even hunt, my favorite weapon of choice being the bow. Had a very healthy childhood in that vein. Learning how to respect nature, while at the same time taking from it what we needed (we were a very poor family and a box of bullets was significantly cheaper than buying unhealthy beef over the counter).

Al Gore talks about how American hunters are some of the last great conservationists. Yep, they are. You don't spend 6 hours out in the wilderness to catch nothing without having a deep respect for nature. Many of them ascribe Native American virtue to the act of hunting. That old guys kid was a brat, chubby little fellow and when he brought down his first deer while we were on a hunting expedition, he ran around all giddy-like jumping up and down, breathing hard, excited. We walked up to him and the kill and I could tell his dad was fucking *pissed.* He grabed him from behind the neck and pushed him to the ground. Told him all sorts of sorry things. "Have some fucking respect! Do you think if a bobcat got your sorry ass it'd be dancing around gleefully?! I oughta leave you out here for a fucking night!" The deer laid there peacefully and I rubbed it's dead neck, saying "Sorry buddy, but we need your meat." A gesture I did mostly to placate the dad, but in restrospect was what we were *supposed* to do.

I never went on a hunting expedition where the hunters were not only respectful of the prey but of nature itself. It's no wonder Al Gore calls upon them as some of the great conservationists.

I haven't hunted in a decade. But I never considered the hunters, those who had guns, people who were bitter and who "clung to their guns" for that.

It was their way of life, it was something they did for enjoyment, and I understood that many years over my expeditions. To return to a more primal state respective of the wilderness.

People here are pathologically calling Hillary out on all sorts of ridiculous memes. She shot a duck so "she's a hunter." Yeah, and I skinned a fucking deer and I was a hunter. Nope, I could've walked away and never held a gun or knife after that. It seems like that's what Hillary did. If I was a female I wouldn't be comfortable in that environment. Too much testosterone. Guys talk dirty when they're alone in the wilderness. And they're always trying to play games with you to see if you're "tough enough."

[napoleon_in_rags]

1. Good points. And also, the quality of life of hunted animals is much higher than livestock.

If you want to look at from an animal rights perspective. (Which live would you choose, the one where you live a natural life and die quick, or the horrible life in captivity? Nobody who eats livestock should say hunters are cruel to animals)

Which brings to a minor disagreement. Why hunt with a bow? I think the goal of hunting should be a clean one shot kill, not sport.

But otherwise great post.

[joshcryer]

6. Because I can make my own bow with great proficency.

There's something about being able to craft your weapon of choice out of what nature has to offer. I'm part Native American (1/8th Cherokee, so not much, I admit), and part of me has a great appreciation for that world.

Mind you I never took down any big game with a bow that I made myself.

[napoleon_in_rags]

17. Ah, I can understand that.

It must be something to know that stuck in the woods there is a good chance you could survive, if only off small game.

My respect from hunters and fishermen like you goes to child, its really something to kill an animal, it gives you a perspective of meat consumption you'd never get from eating at Mickey D's, that something has to give up its life for you to eat. It shows how we are connected to the rest of life on this planet. When I was spiritually seeking, I became a "killitarian" for awhile, only eating meat I killed myself. I live in the city now so I try to be vegetarian, but I recommend that killitarian diet if you are a spiritual type guy like me.

[joshcryer]

19. I eat a diet light in meat and will probably go vegetarian eventually.

When we hunted we did it for the food because we were a family of 6 and it still didn't provide enough to be honest. I agree that it's an entirely different perspective, though.

People will buy meat off of a store counter and then pretend like it's grown somewhere or something and never actually lived, walked around, had its own experiences. It's actually quite sad. People lack this connection with their world that they'll never get to experience.

[The Doctor.]

45. Pa Eldritch showed me how to walk into the woods with a knife, and

Walk out with a bow functional enough to take a rabbit.

I've only hunted small game, never deer, but I've known for my whole life that hunting is about being part of nature, not simply 'killing'. Thank you for relating that much.

It's not, however, accurate to suggest that Obama was talking about hunters.

When a person's 'security zone' shrinks becaus of job loss, high food and energy prices, medical crises, impending foreclosures, and the uncertainties those bring, people seek comfort and security in things like religion and guns... respectively.

The more insecure people are, the more bitter they become. What Barack Obama said was neither incorrect, nor was it directed at hunters... unless those hunters have found they have to rely more heavily on game to eat because of the current administration's policies.

Being poor makes people bitter... it sounds like you may have been able to relate.

[joshcryer]

65. My bowyer skills were all self-taught until later in life where I met a real bowyer.

I can make a long bow out of one piece of wood that could theoretically take down big game, I just never tried it. Hunting with a bow is infinitely more difficult than with a gun because you must be significantly closer to the game. A crossbow is generally preferred for this task but I like to use something I have crafted myself.

I think Obama was generalizing, and I imagine that to generalize in that vein you must clearly not have any understanding of a culture. Guns and religion were and are povital aspects of these cultures, guns in particular. Saying that they "cling to them" is an insult because they were there *before* the hard times came, *before* the GOP used those issues to get elected.

[woolldog]

2. so you enjoy killing animals....

good for you.

[silverojo]

10. My reading teacher would've skinned you alive

The way you completely missed the point about respecting nature and its ways -- including how we fit in the food chain -- would've gotten you on her shit list with a bullet (couldn't resist the pun).

If you really loved animals, you'd understand that hunting, whether by man or beast, is part of nature.

[woolldog]

22. what other animal kills for sport?

other than man....

[Alameda]

29. it's the cycle of life

unless you live off nothing, something is "transformed" to keep you alive. It's a matter of consciousness and respect.

[Rincewind]

37. What other animals kill for sport?

Let's see, just off the top of my head. Cats, dogs (well fed pet cats killing birds, dogs killing chickens and cats), in fact, just about every carnivore will kill other carnivores, especially their young. Animals act mostly on instinct, and carnivores have the old chase, capture, kill hardwired into their brains. If something runs, they are inclined to chase it, if they catch it, they are inclined to kill it.

[2rth2pwr]

41. The Orca.

[2rth2pwr]

42. The Dolphin

Growing evidence shows that the big animals, up to 12 feet long, are killing fellow mammals in droves, wielding their beaks as clubs and slashing away with rows of sharp teeth. Dolphins have been found to bludgeon porpoises to death by the hundreds. Unlike most animal killers, which eat their prey, dolphins seem to have murderous urges unrelated to the need for food.

They have even been observed in recurring acts of infanticide. http://www.fishingnj.org/artdolphagress.htm

[Alameda]

78. Well that puts a different light on things

doesn't it? I wonder if it could have anything to do with chemicals or sounds?

[2rth2pwr]

43. The Chimpanzee.

[joshcryer]

53. This one is one of the rather unnerving ones. I'm glad Planet Earth showed it.

Planet Earth took a lot of courage by showing what the *real* world is like, what *nature* is like. I remember reading a National Geographic where they showed wolves taking down a moose. Many people wrote in complaining how disgusting the pictures were and how they didn't understand the photographers didn't just shoot the moose and put it out of their misery.

Sometimes people just don't get it.

I watched Into The Wild and how young McCandless went up into the Alaskan wilderness and *poached* an Elk. I couldn't believe it. His own journal tried to justify his outright disrespect for nature.

As I reflected on that I realized that in fact he's the kind of guy would would probably have written into National Geographic complaining about mother nature.

[cali]

55. None of the people I know who hunt, hunt for sport

though there are certainly plenty of people who do just that. Here, hunting is part of the culture, and people eat what they kill.

[joshcryer]

59. I didn't even know about "hunting for sport" until I started reading about caged releases...

...and "farms" where deer are set loose and you shoot them. It's shocking to me to be perfectly honest. I can't believe we'd do such things, it's completely counterintuitive to my upbringing.

You bring down what you are going to eat.

Catch and release I can see perhaps being somewhat in that vein, and I knew people who did that, but we never did it. Always caught our limit and pigged out on frozen fish all summer.

[Lyric]

63. delete

dupe

[Lyric]

64. You mean kills for the sake of killing?

Pretty much all felines at some point or another--lions are notorious for hunting and killing hyenas just for the sake of killing them. Canids too--dogs, wolves, foxes, jackals, coyotes. The lab mix dog that I had as a teenager used to hunt groundhogs and possums, play with them while killing them, and leave the bodies to rot. Isn't that "sport"? I'd venture a guess that most predator species have killed for "play" from time to time. We are not alone in this respect.

However, there is an enormous difference between killing for food and killing for sport. The latter is detestable in my opinion, because human beings should know better. The former is acceptable to me, because I remember all too well the times that my family depended on deer meat, grouse, and river-caught catfish when the money just wasn't there. I don't begrudge the needy for their consumption of game meat, but I *do* find it repulsive when hunters kill a deer, cut off the trophy head/antlers, and leave the rest to rot.

[joshcryer]

69. The hunters I know who kept trophies *always* used the meat.

In fact one might say using the head for a trophy is actually utilizing it, and not letting it fester.

I've *never* heard of actual hunters, not poachers, but hunters, leaving a carcas to rot while keeping a trophy. That's poaching and it's illegal.

I still have an antler from my first kill. We couldn't afford to have it stuffed and mounted. And I didn't want to, anyway.

[Lyric]

70. I'm in north central WV, and I've seen plenty

of headless carcasses in the woods. We usually call the game warden when we find them on public grounds, but really there isn't much else to be done about it. It's always heartbreaking to see it. When my Dad taught his kids how to hunt, respect for the kill was always the first rule. Taking the head while leaving the meat to rot is wasteful beyond belief, and whenever I see it, I can't help but wonder how many meals for a poor family that meat could have provided. *sigh*

[bridgit]

68. Domestic cats...

[MonkeyFunk]

71. Orcas

probably others.

[acrosstheuniverse]

3. Obama never said all hunters are bitter...

He said that many who have lost faith in government in economic policies and are bitter, tend to vote on more personal and social wedge issues like gun control, gay rights, and illegal immigration. Issues that the Republicans have been using to stay in office for decades now.

[babylonsister]

7. Exactly; this has nothing to do with gun control or who hunts, or why,

but the bigger issue of people not being represented for so long economically.

[joshcryer]

11. Sure, but the point is that he dismisses their deeper appreciation for these things.

They're wedge issues for a reason. Not because Republicans have somehow made them wedge issues, but because they're important to them.

[thevoiceofreason]

18. I agree it would be good for him to address and affirm that point

[joshcryer]

20. Your nickname suits you.

:hi: :)

[bhikkhu]

21. This clip really clears up what he was talking about

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x117879

well worth watching. He was talking about hunters in a way that makes absolute sense, as I can vouch for living in a very repug county, with a great tradition of hunting.

[napi21]

23. Oh if he had only phrased it as articulately as you did, we wouldn't

be having this conversation and the media wouldn't be headlining it either!

Don't you all understand that the problem isn't with what he meant, but how he said it. It's been terribly misunderstood!

[silverojo]

4. That was a very nice story

As upsetting as hunting may be, it's all part of the natural food chain. Dad's attitude toward the celebrating brat was great, too, LOL.

Thanks for sharing.

[joshcryer]

9. That kid was always so fucking loud. Always made me angry.

When you're out in nature sounds are very important. I actually felt *embarrassed* when he celebrated like that even though no one else was around.

It was like nature was staring down hard at us and saying we were assholes, heh.

[ecstatic]

5. RIF nt

[ericgtr]

8. Great post, joshcryer

and though I don't know you, I do believe you. Had Hillary told it nobody would buy it.

[thevoiceofreason]

12. Our fees in Texas provide over 1/2 of the state's conservation funds

We also spend a lot to improve the lives of all wildlife, such as disease control and water management.

I primarily hunt deer, and as i tell people, I'm not that mad at those deer.

This year, my 16 year old daughter killed her first deer. It was a doe, as that was what the wildlife biologist advised us to take to maintain the proper ratio for the herd on our lease.

My 15 year old daughter does not cotton much to hunting. So she and I go out and hunt - with a camera. She has turned into quite a photographer.

The hunters on our lease are by in large republicans - but as relates to the environment, they are as green as they come. The point of all this is that it takes all types. If Hillary is sincere about hunting and reasonable gun ownership, I have no problem with her on that issue. I do not take Barack's comments as in any way threatening toward sportsmen. There are folks who, having had their financial lives ruined because the elected officials have ignored them for so long, are prone to following those who say "The bad liberals are going to take your guns!!" That is the issue to which Barack spoke, and I couldn't agree more that that is something we need to change.

[joshcryer]

14. Oh I consider the spin about Obama's comments a joke mostly.

But I do think he was dismissive of the *reasons* that people chose these things. Just because the Republicans make them wedge issues does not mean that they're not *important* to the people who vote on these issues.

[Joe the Revelator]

13. Cool, you like killing things: so did Jeffery Dahmer

Nothing to be proud of in taking the life of anything.

[joshcryer]

15. I take it you're a vegetarian?

:shrug:

It's been a decade since I hunted, I don't know any good hunter friends around here and have been mostly a roamer for the last decade.

[thevoiceofreason]

16. Hunt for food, not trophies

[bhikkhu]

25. I know dozens of hunters

and every season listen to hundreds of hunting stories. I don't know of a single hunter who "likes killing things". If you don't get how wrong your analogy is I don't think I could explain it, but please avoid the subject.

[joshcryer]

27. I assure you that the poster who replied didn't read the thread.

In fact he probably didn't even get past the headline because I addressed explicitly the idea of killing just to kill.

[cali]

58. oh for pity's sake.

Do you know what happens to deer in a winter when the snow is heavy? They die slow painful deaths from starvation. I know quite a few hunters. Some are assholes, but most aren't. And it's generally not about pride in killing something.

[joshcryer]

62. And if someone is they're damn quickly ostracized from a group.

Usually they shape up and realize how respect is one of the fundamental rules of nature, if you can't respect it, well, it won't respect you.

[JeffR]

24. A very good post

Though it's immediately apparent that Dick Cheney is the exception that proves the rule when it comes to hunters.

[joshcryer]

26. People who freaking do caged released hunting are dispicible.

See that Daily Show Clip? Unbelievable. I geniunely didn't know they did that.

[JeffR]

28. Yes, it was sickening.

I wish the MSM paid as much attention to this kind of thing as comedy shows. Things are screwy.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

30. you miss the point. It is Hillary's duplicity

the fact that she brought this hunting up to act big before her PA voters!

[joshcryer]

33. Yeah, politicians pander.

So what? She never claimed to be a hunter or to go on hunting expeditions.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

39. she bragged about her hunter training with her father

[joshcryer]

49. Hyperbole.

She got no more training than I did my first exposure to guns or knives or such.

[rodeodance]

61. Her father taught her how to shoot--and you have to smear her! grow up!

[joshcryer]

67. Her father taught her responsible gun handling. It has been exaggerated beyond belief.

Apparently Hillary claims to be a high level markswoman who hunts all the time or something.

Geez.

Any responsible parent would offer to show how to shoot a gun to their children. Any responsible parent!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

72. Why did she even bring it up?

It wasn't necessary but she thought she could score a few more points with voters in PA.

[SoCalDem]

31. Is that you, Hillary (the huntress)?

:rofl:

[murielm99]

32. I used to spend my summers in Montana.

My uncle taught us to hunt and fish. He was the type of person who would take off by himself to fish or hunt, camping out for several days at a time, communing with nature.

I have never seen a greater conservationist than my uncle. All his friends were like him, too.

My husband, my daughter and I sometimes hunt deer and pheasant on our farm property. I am not as good a shot as my husband or daughter. But a few years ago when we were having an unusually hard time due to some financial setbacks, I did manage to shoot a deer. It really helped the budget.

I have neighbors who fill their freezer with fish every summer and grow a large garden. They spend very little on food, and have a healthier diet than most of us.

And from what I see around me, the small towns and rural areas are sending a disproportionate number of kids to Iraq. It is all tied up with the lack of jobs and opportunities. Obama should have addressed that, instead of remarking about guns, bitterness, religion, etc.

I think somebody better try to understand the rural population of this country. Every election year, I read and hear about how they are overrepresented in terms of their votes and the electoral college vote, while the urban population is short changed. I think this is true. Since that is not going to change any time soon, we need to try to embrace each other and understand that we are all Americans with the same needs. We are not "us" versus "them."

[joshcryer]

34. Excellent post.

Thanks so much for sharing. :)

[truedelphi]

47. I've moved from the city to a rural area and it has been the

RW christians who have been the huge support that my family needed.

Right after we moved out here, my husband becme ill. And these people who didn't know us from Adam have helped us in every way that they could. And sure, they mentioned how good it would be if we joined their Church, but when it was made clear we werren't going to, they continued with the support and toned down the conversion message.

I have always gotten annoyed at the way that the country or small town people are portrayed in movies. It seems to me that they know as much as city people, yet know also quite a bit more in terms of keeping their car running, their gardens planted, their carpentry shop out in back operating efficiently.

[murielm99]

48. We are not ignorant.

My husband and I have college degrees. I have a master's degree. Many of the people who farm here have been to college and have agricultural degrees from solid schools, like the University of Iowa or University of Illinois. Farming a million dollar plus piece of property takes good business skills, too. Most farmers understand the commodities markets and watch the stock market carefully.

Many farm wives work as nurses, teachers or social workers. Other people in the community hold skilled trades or professional positions. We have pharmacists and lawyers here, too.

Believe it or not, our schools are good. Most of the teachers who stay here are local people who are committed to the community. Two of my children went to Illinois Math and Science Academy after attending our rural schools for ten years. My youngest daughter was accepted into the honors program at Iowa State.

There is a Mensa chapter in our area. There is a professional engineering association. One of our students won the national MathCounts contest. (I guess you could say it is the mathematics equivalent of the national spelling bee).

Of course we have rednecks and fools, not to mention republicans. So do the cities.

Yes, we have lost much of our manufacturing base. It has made some of our blue collar population desperate, and many people have left the area. To be honest, I saw the same type of desperation here during the Reagan years. There were many foreclosures here at that time, too. People were losing their farms and homes.

I see more desperation than bitterness, overall. If I am going to be bitter, it is over the stereotyping.

[joshcryer]

51. One thing you can always always rely on is the accessablity of tools and such.

If you ever are missing a wrench or need a tool you can easily borrow one in exchange for a simple porch conversation about how your days have been going. Heck, you might even get a lending hand if it's on a weekend and they have nothing better to do.

I used to repair cars on the street rather the garage because the neighbors would walk down and say a few words, give a bit of their knowledge, and so on, and you'd be better for it in the end.

I haven't had someone else do my oil changes, brakes, or filters in over a decade. I do it for the whole family in fact, and it's all because of skills I learned back then.

[truedelphi]

74. I forget the name of the man, but he headed a major engineering dept

At a major university and he was fond of saying that the universities were worse off for the population transitioning from rural areas into cities.

He was meaning that back in the day when most Americans lived on farms, more Americans than now grew up figuring out how to repair a tool or a machine and design a gizmo to substitute for something else that was broken.

In the beginning of the 1900's, it was a major undertaking to go from your farm into town - even though most farms were only 6 miles from a town. So people did their own machine tooling, etc.
with what they had on hand.

City kids growing up now don't ever have to fix a thing. And many things that break easily are cheaper to replace than repair.

[virginia mountainman]

52. Our parties leaders, forget who made this party...

Rural folk.

[iiibbb]

35. I started hunting 3 years ago

I'm not a vegetarian. I figured it was important to experience where my food really comes from. It was a much more rewarding experience than I expected, and there are a number of benefits to myself and the environment.

(1) like it or not deer are overpopulated. You can go on about why this is so, but the fact remains there are more deer than there should be. To the point they overgraze the forest and affect how the forest regenerates. Lots of car accidents. Chronic wasting disease that is even finding it's way into wild populations of Elk. Deer don't really have natural predators, so that leaves us. If you eat meat, then you are really in no position to criticize a hunter.

(2) Deer are free range and aren't hopped up on hormones and antibiotics. The forest supports what it supports. You don't have to convert it to pasture and graze it. The animals aren't shipped who knows how far, kept in pens, slaughtered, and that's their whole life. The actual act of killing the animal isn't fun... I won't say there isn't a certain amount of fun in accomplishing something that is hard to do... but I don't take any great pleasure in the act.

(3) I do use a gun so the deer suffer as short a time as possible. I probably will never hunt with a bow. The meat is better when it isn't saturated with lactic acid anyway. The quicker the kill the better.

(4) It is hard work getting up at 4 in the morning, sitting out in below freezing temperatures for hours, maybe days before seeing a deer. It takes a lot of effort hauling it out of the woods. When I'm done I know the value of my food.


So if you're a vegetarian for ethical reasons I can respect that. I'm not a vegetarian. I'm proud of the fact that I don't just buy meat in cellophane at the grocery.

[iiibbb]

36. I started hunting 3 years ago

repost

[Alameda]

38. I remember being in the back of the car

with a dead dear. I would pet it's neck, sad it was dead, but grateful for it's meat. I grew up on mostly all wild game. In fact I don't remember store bought meat growing up.

It actually saved my father's family to have two boys who could hunt and fish to feed the family during the depression. My niece and her husband feed themselves and their three children by hunting.

I've never hunted for game for food myself, but I respect those who do.

[bigtree]

40. nice perspective

K&R

[WoodyTobiasJr]

44. I could never figure out how hunting is considered a sport

Nothing sporting about it. You have a hunter with a high powered shotgun. Who can take down an animal from 1000 yards away without the poor thing even knowing what hit it. If you want to call it a sport, take away the gun and make the hunter get off their corn fed ass and try to chase the animal down and wrestle it to the ground. Then maybe I would consider calling this activity a sport.

[joshcryer]

50. I don't think you've ever hunted.

Animals in the wild, real, wild animals, are not easy to catch. Not at all. That's why we invented agriculture and domestication. We realized that it took a crapload of effort to kill animals that were in the wild and always on the alert for predators.

[iiibbb]

73. Mischaracterization

High-powered shotguns at 1000 yards huh?

(1) Shotguns don't have that kind of range, and neither do most rifles.
(2) 1000 yards would be considered by most hunters to be an unethical shot because there likelihood of a quick kill are too low.
(3) If you are going to kill an animal, you want it to die without knowing what hit it.
(4) Hunting over feed plots is illegal in the states where I have hunted.
(5) It is a sport in terms of being a pastime. It is a sport in terms of there being no guarantees that you will be successful.

[aikoaiko]

76. I'd like to see that shotgun that can make a 1000 yd shot.

Or maybe you really don't anything about hunting or guns.

[dkf]

46. Ugh. Your post made me ill.

I think that meet your meat video would make me ill too.

Sorry...sensitive stomach.

[Justitia]

54. Oh brother. Are we really going to have to suffer thru everybody's hunting stories now???

Jesus H Christ, it really has come to this.

[joshcryer]

56. I'm not talking about hunting here, I'm talking more about the culture surrounding it.

Sorry if it offends you.

[Justitia]

60. Know all about it, I'm from TX. Just can't believe we're in "hunting culture" talk - again. -eom

[joshcryer]

66. Didn't know we had this discussion before. Certainly wouldn't have posted if I saw many others...

...in this vein. I just wanted to remind people that this isn't just some thing people cling to but that it is something that defines them.

[Bonobo]

57. K&R from an Obama supporter.

I don't think you really "get" what Obama was saying, but that was a great post, showing us a lifestyle many if us are unacquainted with.

[The Backlash Cometh]

75. Is it true you only have an hour to skin the deer before

the flies lay their eggs and the maggots spoil the meat? Even if you felled the animal in Alaska?

[aikoaiko]

77. children can learn a lot more anatomy and physiology processing hunted game than in most classes

everyone should how to make game edible.

[amandabeech]

79. Thanks for your post.

I'm from a small town in the Midwest and my Dad just loved deer hunting--even when he didn't get his buck. He just liked nature and the camaderie of his fellow hunters, with whom he trecked to the woods every year.

Hunting never appealed to me, but Dad did get me out in the boat fishing.

Not that many women enjoy hunting, although some can be persuaded to try it with their husbands, boyfriends and Dads, particularly bird hunting, I think. I give them points for being willing to try something different.

Hillary--she's just trying a little too hard to fit in with the boys, that's all. I'm in a profession that was historically dominated by men, and the older men are still in charge. I try to keep up on sports so that I can talk a little at the water cooler, but I'm sure I sound like an idiot. I'd cut her a little slack.

After all, Obama looked kind of goofy in the bowling alley. He would have been better off shooting a few hoops in the local gym. Basketball is popular everywhere, and he'd look comfortable and relaxed.

I always thought that Kerry should have spent more time playing hockey for charity. He looked relaxed and friendly, and that's what's important.

[JimGinPA]

80. I Thought This Was Going To Be A Sex Tale

:shrug: