This Clarkie saw Edwards at the Texas Dem Convention last night...

[Richardo]

...and I now think he's the guy that would make the most effective running mate for Kerry.

Edwards' keynote address to the State Dem Convention was amazing - I'd hate to have been an opposing counsel facing him in a courtroom.

If the VP is supposed to be the attack dog of the ticket - and he is - there's no way the Bushies could stand up to a constant barrage of his articulate, plain spoken, devastating criticism. He'd wipe Cheney up with a damp cloth in a VP debate.

Wes is my man and was my choice to head the ticket - but since that's not happening, I'm throwing my full support behind Kerry, and I think that Edwards would help Kerry more than General Clark.

I still see Wes as Secretary of State. ;-)

[whistle]

1. Great to hear that, I agree

[chimpymustgo]

2. Wow. I am stunned. But I really appreciate your candor and open mind.

Edwards really has the ability to WIN OVER voters. Glad you had such a great experience.

[Darkamber]

3. thanks for the report...

I've not been lucky enough to see him in person, But I have heard that Edwards is amazing in person. One of the reasons why he came out 2nd in Iowa when the people got to see him and hear him face to face.

And I agree that the best combination is Edwards VP and Clark Sec. of State. Besides, I would love to see Clark address the UN and there is no way he could do something like that in the VP spot.

And we feel for you in TX...go out there and give Bush a good fight!

[BootinUp]

4. traitor!

No, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Edwards is formidable. I said as much after the Iowa debate that he won in my opinion. I didn't expect him to pull 2nd in Iowa though. :)

[Trajan]

5. Edwards was perhaps the BEST orator of them all ...

Sharpton was quick on his feet, indeed, but his one-liners were a tad too cutsy, even if they were right on target and cut to the bone ...

Edwards is quite convincing, and has a great populist head on his shoulders .... He speaks for me like Gore speaks for me ...

I like him, alot, and look forward to pulling the 'Kerry/Edwards' lever come November ...

[PurityOfEssence]

20. Carville calls him the best stump speaker he's ever seen run for President

Regardless of what partisans may think of him, the guy's a godzilla of a campaigner, and shockingly appealing.

That was a very nice thread for the original poster to start, and it shows a lot of what makes this board so inviting.

One of the most heartening things about the primary was the talent of the candidates and the depth of support so many of them could garner; it really gives one hope to get rid of the monarchists and their idiotic enabling serfs.

What's nice about Edwards is his seeming imperviousness to being disliked over time. Even the lawyers he beat, corporate impressarios with great ability, seem to not hate the guy and grant him some points. This kind of disarming aura is necessary in such a divided country, because it's going to take bi-partisan work to move this country forward.

I think the Clark supporters can take heart in this, though: he's got a real future, regardless of what happens in this campaign. If he gets the nod as VP, then he'll see support that'll surprise everyone, and if not, there'll surely be important jobs in his future. The guy's really got something, and there's no denying it; mercifully, Kerry's not the least bit afraid of having smart people around, so we may be in for a good ride here.

[Dinger]

67. He's A great Speaker, Whopee!

Guess that's all we need to worry about.

[spooky3]

54. Sharpton is clever, and had great ideas, but did poorly when asked about

specific factual matters. If he would run for a lower office and gain more experience both campaigning and serving, he would be a more formidable candidate.

[Radical Activist]

61. That's what I thought about Clark n/t

[Memekiller]

6. Saw Edwards last night as well...

I am glad to see Edwards attack (something I worried he wasn't able to do), and the man is charismatic. I still give the nudge to the General (this is a constant debate between my wife and I -- she's an Edwards woman). It's just that I think this is an election about the war, ultimately, and Clark has good credentials on the economy as well, and has hit his stride as a campaigner. Edwards is the man if it's an election about the economy. (Then again, he's also a good antidote for Bush's "doom and gloom" characterization of Dems).

When it comes down to it, we'll be fine with either of them. That's the bottom line.

[venus]

27. Edwards never moved me in the debates nor in the Town Halls.

Strikes me as same old, same old. Whereas Wes gives me chills with his gravitas and conviction, whether its about jobs or national security.

[funky_bug]

32. Me too

I was looking forward to seeing Edwards at the Broward County JJ Dinner last weekend. After hearing him, I was un-swayed in my opinion. He basically gave the same ol' Two Americas stump I've heard half a dozen times. What did impress me was the way he completely ignored his handlers for some fifteen to twenty minutes after his talk. He had several dozen people surrounding him (present company included) waiting to shake hands, take pics, or whatever, and he absolutely took his time leaving the area so that he could touch base with the people. I appreciate that in any politician (FYI, I got all girly 'cause by GOD he's a good lookin' man.) But as far as speaking, I wasn't terribly impressed. Then again, I wasn't terribly impressed with many of the speakers, as they stole and used one Carville line after another...lol. At least JE's lines were his own, albeit not very original.

[sadiesworld]

7. The RW media will devour him. n/t.

[chimpymustgo]

9. Edwards will wow them or cow them. He can easily handle the media.

And has done so for years.

[sadiesworld]

18. Edwards has never "cowed" the media.

At this point he APPEARS to have "wowed" the media.

I grant you that the media appear to be "wowed" with Edwards, as they were during the primaries, but the question is WHY?

Three possibilities, assuming you believe we have a RW, corporate media (as do I):

1. The media, in toto, is SO OVERWHELMED w/ Edwards' charm that they cannot be unkind to him (in spite of the best interests of their corporate masters, not to mention their own careers).

2. They find Edwards to be reasonably charming, acceptable, etc., and do not buy his populist rhetoric for one second. (Surely, you don't believe a corporate-owned media would look kindly on a populist?!)

3. The media believe that Edwards is their best shot at weakening the dem ticket, i.e., they prefer another 4 years of the corporate-friendly disaster monkey.

I'm going with #3 but #2 bears examination. Sorry, the media is nothing, if not predictable.

[chimpymustgo]

21. How to address this kind of logic? DEMOCRATS want Edwards.

Somehow Clark's demise and Edwards' rise is bizarrely attributed to the RW media. This is just denial and excuse-making at it's worst.

NYTimes just did a story about Senators lobbying Kerry to pick Edwards. House members are lobbying for Edwards (over Gephardt). Candidates for the House and Senate are lobbying for Edwards because they think he'll help "down ticket". The AP poll showed almost half the Democrats polled wanted Edwards as VP. Gephardt and Clark were just under 20%. They broke out in CHANTS at the Texas convention!

The media are just reporting what DEMOCRATS are saying and doing to show their support for Edwards. Are you saying all these Democrats are just sheeple following the media?

These constant attacks on Edwards are unseemly. Toot your guy's horn. Post some fantasy threads about Kerry/Clark. Maybe it will happen.

But lay off John Edwards. I don't think Wes Clark would respect this crap.

[sadiesworld]

22. .

Mona Charen
National Review Online
Sean Hannity
Laura Ingraham
Peggy Noonan

Why do they love Edwards?

:shrug:

[wjsander]

23. Who cares what they think?

Some of them 'liked' John Kerry too before he became the frontrunner. The polls like Edwards, and I'm sorry, but when winning an election the polls are pretty much all that matter.

Again... let's not get greedy with our ticket... just win the damn election.

[sadiesworld]

24. Gee, maybe they know that they can clean his clock!

Give me another reason that a bunch of RW whores would be stumping for Edwards>

[wjsander]

30. Yeah, you're right. That's probably why Al Franken likes him.

And we all know that Al Franken is either a stupid liberal or a crafty conservative in disguise. :eyes:

[AP]

33. And that Pelosi and about 30 Dem Senators are dumb too.

[Trajan]

57. Really ...

Honestly: WHO tf cares WHAT the NRO thinks ? ...

Is there a SINGLE Democrat whom they WONT try to smear ? ...

Worrying only about what the RW thinks about 'our' candidate is ridiculous .... they have ALWAYS hated Democrats, and they will ALWAYS hate Democrats (unless they are like Liebermann or Zell) ...

FUCK them: lets run our OWN race based on the needs of citizens instead of on the needs of the likes of Mona Charen and Peggy Noonan ...

[Jai4WKC08]

25. "Clark's demise and Edwards' rise"?

That's rich.

Last I looked, neither one will be the party's nominee, and both are being considered for VP. Both are making appearances for Kerry (Clark has higher "body count" ;) ) Both are raising big money for Kerry (I think Clark's got the edge on that one too, but can't document it--too close-hold).

Talk to us in a couple weeks about who has had a "demise" and who a "rise."

[Scoopie]

36. AND SWING VOTERS DON'T!!

That's the point!

Every single rabid Clark fan on this blog and others is from a swing state. Think about that!
Ohio, Tennessee and Arkansas are the most represented, but, my gosh - that should be ENOUGH!

[Awsi Dooger]

52. For a former reporter, your claims are remarkably lame

First of all, Tennessee is not a swing state, not unless Kerry receives an experimental 8-percent teaser. The gambler in me would love to take advantage of you regarding which candidate carries Tennessee, but I'll be kind to your cash.

And every single rabid Clark fan on this (45,000+) blog and others is from a swing state? That's comparable to the other day, when you claimed Edwards' support was phony because you don't know anyone who campaigned or voted for him.

As a former reporter with a print journalism degree from a prestigious j-school, I can just imagine approaching an editor: "The wire story insists 500 people were at that speech. But no one from my block was there and I asked every one! We need to kill this!"

[Darkamber]

58. Edwards support is broad...

Many of those who support Edwards are not rabid fans. They are normal, every day people who work and come home and spend time with their families and catch the evening news if they have enough energy to watch and maybe read the paper in the morning. Edwards support did not come from the internet. It came from every day voters.

The question remains whether Edwards can help Kerry and reach to other voters that Kerry will not reach to.

But also important can Edwards or Clark help Kerry on the Hill. A lawyer speaking to lawyers knows the language better. Many of our 'lawyer makers' including Kerry have law background. Many of the older ones have served in the military at a time of war, but they are not career military.

Kerry is best served with Edwards helping him on the Hill and Clark helping him as either the Sec. of State or National Sec. adviser.

And there's no proof that Edwards does not help Kerry in swing states. Until you show me an actual real poll that shows an Kerry/Edwards ticket as loosing to Bush/Cheney then there's only the word of your friends. And my Republican friends all say that they will support Kerry/Edwards but don't like Clark. But I would not use that as evidence that Clark has no support with Republicans and swing voters. Not all Republicans are the enemy. Some of them really don't want to vote for Bush.

[Richardo]

12. That was my thought too at first - the perjorative "trial lawyer" label

Ooooooo them evil trial lawyers, tort-reform, all that crap. But after last night I've NO doubt Edwards would dismiss 'with extremem prejudice' those pitiful attempts to define him by RW terms.

[sadiesworld]

26. Do you really think that Edwards' occasional opportunity to rebut the

"ambulance chaser" moniker can compete with the 24/7 world of RW media? I know several doctors who are VERY unhappy w/ * but would not appreciate Edwards on the dem ticket.

[AP]

34. For every doctror, there are probably about 300 patients who will like him

[Scoopie]

37. Actually, I would prefer more affordable health care

and that can't be acheived with Edwards on the ticket.
If you don't know what I'm talking about by now, then you're never gonna get it.

[AP]

38. I think Edwards's health plan would have worked. I thought it was

genius.

And I don't think the problem with health care is PI lawyers. It's the corporatization of the health care industry which has made illness profitable.

[spooky3]

55. Notice that the critics of JRE's health care plan NEVER discuss its

content, AP (or when it appeared on the scene, well before that of many of his rivals--including his plan to keep doctors in business)? I guess it IS asking a lot that people who wish to be critical actually read it and think about it. (sarcasm off).

[Darkamber]

47. Lawyers have not increased health care cost...

Please do not fall victim to the insurance companies propaganda. There are alot of reasons for health care cost increases. Some of it is the uninsured. Those who go to the emergency rooms to get their health care. They are not turned away but taken care of and that has to be paid for somehow. It comes out of our pockets.

That group in the exact group that Edwards wants to help. Part of the 'other America'. And his plan was not as expensive as Kerry's and would have done alot to decrease the costs by providing coverage for all children. The group that you are paying for now, but you see it only in increase insurance premiums.

You can claim that Edwards doesn't have enough Foreign Policy experience for your tastes, but please do not claim some falsehood that he will not help to provide affordable health care.

[hlthe2b]

8. I really want Clark in a key cabinet position if not VP...

but, that is good to know about Edwards...I've never disliked Edwards, just didn't think he necessarily was the best possible candidate for VP... I have heard him speak though and do find him impressive Wes would make a good Secretary of State, though...

[deminflorida]

10. Unfortunately talking a good line does not make up for Foreign

Policy Experience...

The GOP is going to paint him as what he is...a Trial Lawyer...

They will blame not only blame the high cost of Mal-Practice insurance on him but his big Drug Manufacturer and Defense Contract investments that he has will only add fuel to fire...

In other words, all the media-hype and everything else is not going to change the fact that the guy carries too much baggage.

[deminflorida]

13. As a side note....

Swing voters are looking for change....

why would they opt out of the current Special Interest Administration for two of the richest Senators in Congress that both voted FOR the Iraq War.

[chimpymustgo]

15. This was such a nice thread. Edwards is wonderful. He'll be a great VP!

There's just no need to keep repeating RW canards.

[Scoopie]

39. I'm not right wing and I'm repeating no canard

Edwards is shallow.
He offers me nothing.
He can't get our kids out of Iraq.
He can't get me lower health care coverage (in fact, he's part of that problem).
I won't vote for that ticket.
AND - most importantly - I'm in a swing state.

Independents want something more than a tired old stump speech. I've literally gotten drunk watching him and drinking to every time he said he was the son of a mill worker. Geesch.

[iconoclastic cat]

66. Spite

Edwards is shallow.
He offers me nothing.
He can't get our kids out of Iraq.
He can't get me lower health care coverage (in fact, he's part of that problem).
I won't vote for that ticket.

So, a Bush victory will achieve all of those things, Scoopie?
Why are you willing to sell out your fellow citizens for spite?
A defeatist "I'll pick up my toys and go home if I don't have everything my way" attitude is why absolutely no progress will be made on any issue, including the ones you have mentioned.

Besides, no VP can get us out of Iraq or fix health care. Only people who are willing to get off the couch and take action can fix these problems.

I don't mean to be harsh. I know you're frustrated. But don't take it out on everyone else by abstaining.

[funky_bug]

40. Point well taken

That's why it's got to be Clark (who didn't have the opportunity to get labeled as a "yes" voter) or Graham, who voted against it.

That is something that clearly needs to be taken OFF the table... how can they effectively attack something they voted FOR. I'm tired of the "I didn't KNOW" whine, and the Right will gobble that up. "You didn't KNOW? What else don't you know? How can we trust you when you flip flop?"

[salonghorn70]

16. Edwards and the Experience Factor

deminflorida, I agree with you. I really like Edwards. I admit that I am for Clark, but I do like Edwards. I agree with what you said about the malpractice thing. I worry that that it would become a secondary issue that would detract from Kerry's message. I also still worry about the lack of foreign policy/national security experience. I know that its easy to say that Bush did not have any in 2000. I think that if the world had been as dangerous then as it is not, then I think that would have been looked at by voters more closely.

[kanrok]

17. Edwards will wipe the floor with repukes on malpractice

He will articulate why those douchebags are so wrong on this issue. Bring 'em on, baby.

[Darkamber]

19. Edwards has a plan to deal with any malpractice issues...

He has the three strikes you are out proposal to deal with frivolously lawsuits that puts the burden of proof and the cost involved with that on the head of the lawyer before that lawyer can bring the case before a jury. IT is a plan that when it was presented to Kerry by a voter, Kerry said that he thought it was a good plan.

And remember something else...our justice system is set up for a jury of our peers to hear the cast and decide what the judgment should be. A large settlement can not be made if those 12 people doesn't agree to grant it. If you attack the lawyer then you had better attack the jury as well and the victim and the whole system.

The fact of the matter is that Edwards got so good at proving his cases when he got before a jury that other others who even threatened to refer the case to Edwards were offered huge settlements to avoid going to court and having Edwards present the case to the jury.

I'm not worried about Edwards dealing with the Trial lawyer deal. It has been tried before and he came off very good and it is an issue that should be brought up. I'd like to hear the GOP come up with a plan that deals with the problem and preserves the system like Edwards has. So far I have only heard, "limits' and no guarantees for lower insurance rates.

[venus]

29. I wish we would dispense with this "trial lawyer"

criticism. Frankly, it's insulting. Why buy into the media and neo-con's hatred of lawyers for goodness sake. Other criticism are legit but I just can't abide this one. It's just as inane as putting Clark down for being a general.

[goclark]

11. I'm a Clarkie too

I think Wesley Clark is the greatest.
That said, I would be thrilled to see a Kerry/Edwards ticket

[DaveSZ]

14. That would make an exciting ticket

:)

[union_maid]

28. Clark or Edwards - either would be good

I prefer Clark, but that's my personal preference. I certainly want Clark in an important, decision making capacity. Either one brings a lot to a campaign.

[FrenchieCat]

31. Richardo, Sorry, but I would like more meat....

on them comment bones that you made.

First, please tell me what you feel are the qualities a Good VP should have.

Then tell me what qualities made you originally support Clark as possible Veep pick.

Now tell me what Edwards showed you last night....like in a substansive manner, that made you determine that he was the one.

It would appear to that going from Clark/General FP and National security Gravitas and Charisma to Edwards/attorney with Charisma and youth indicates that either your method of determining what is good for this election and for this country has taken a turn, or that what you liked about Clark did not include his qualifications. Please provide some insight into your decision in making the change....

Also, Have you ever seen Wes Clark in person and hear him speak?

Was the Edwards Tx event filled with "electricity" in the air? Was it the Rock Star effect so well promoted by the media? Was it what Edwards said, or how he smiled?

I am curious. Thank you.

[Scoopie]

44. Way to grill, Frenchie!

I love it!

Now... if we could only make the media ask such tough questions...

[Richardo]

56. No problem, Frenchie...here goes

First, please tell me what you feel are the qualities a Good VP should have.
An effective Vice President has the following qualifications:
- In campaign mode:
...the ability to energize the base
...the ability to attract (or at least not alienate) swing voters
...the wherewithal to serve as the candidate's attack dog
- In office:
...the ability to step into the Presidency in a heartbeat
...the ability to help execute the administration's domestic and political agenda
...sell the administration's policy initiatives on Capitol Hill
...sell the administration's policy initiatives to the media and the public
...take charge of a significant program in their own right (Johnson and the space program, Gore and Reinventing Government, for example.)

Then tell me what qualities made you originally support Clark as possible Veep pick.
I still support Clark for his vision of America, his expertise in foreign affairs, and his proven ability to lead. I think Clark could fill all of the above requirements, and has the advantage in some areas (notably foreign policy and national security), but that Edwards has the advantage in others (such as serving as a liaison with the legislative branch.)

Now tell me what Edwards showed you last night....like in a substansive manner, that made you determine that he was the one.
What it comes down to for me is not just the substance but the ability to communicate. While I followed the primary candidates, I frankly focused almost exclusively on Clark, his gravitas, national security credentials, potential for attracting moderate Republicans. But, as a first time campaigner I found that his ability to communicate was not as polished as others who have been in the game much longer. I was able to look beyond that. And while he has improved, he still does not have the experience and oratorical skills that Edwards has developed as a lawyer and politican. Both jobs require the ability to persuade the skeptical, and I think Edwards' success in both areas points to his prowess.

It would appear to that going from Clark/General FP and National security Gravitas and Charisma to Edwards/attorney with Charisma and youth indicates that either your method of determining what is good for this election and for this country has taken a turn, or that what you liked about Clark did not include his qualifications. Please provide some insight into your decision in making the change....
First of all, I don't agree with your assessment that it's solely National Secutity vs young lawyer. That being said, almost the entire rationale for my change comes down to one thing: Who can most effectively speak to and persuade the moderate swing voters that we need to carry this election? Edwards has some liabilities with the "trial lawyer" label, while Clark has an unassailable military and national secutity career and background. However, I find that Edwards has the politician/lawyer's talent for the quick rhetorical jab, and with his experience in adversarial politics and law I don't think he'd be rocked by the unfair and constant stream of attacks the ticket will receive.

Also, Have you ever seen Wes Clark in person and hear him speak?
Unfortunately, not in person.

Was the Edwards Tx event filled with "electricity" in the air? Was it the Rock Star effect so well promoted by the media? Was it what Edwards said, or how he smiled?
The atmosphere was definitely charged. The smile did generate a few Beatle-esque screams from the ladies (that was pretty funny). You have to understand that here in Texas, Democrats do not often get the chance to let their hair down and feel good about themselves and each other in large numbers, away for the constant abuse heaped out by RW radio, state politics and the local media.

I'm still a Clark supporter. I just think that if he is not going to be President (my first choice) then there are better ways for him to serve than as VP.

I am curious. Thank you.
Not at all. Hope we're still friends. :)

[FrenchieCat]

60. Thank you for your responses.......

It did help. I have read several other reports from that convention and it does seem that Edwards did a good job. It appears that many Edwards for Veep fans were there...and that the room was energized, and that those present want what they want.....Edwards on the ticket.

It also appears that Kucinich gave a speech the next day, that has been reported to have brought tears to the eyes. That the contrast between the smooth talking memorized speech from Edwards that was good and effective...and the Kucinich speech that spoke to the heart...and that the two manners of speaking showed a sharp contrast.

I supported Wes Clark exactly because he isn't a smooth politician who tells people what they want to hear. I will continue to support those who speak based on what they believe and are not so caculating.

More power to you for having two great candidates for you to get behind.

I will say that this year's election will be about the War on Terror and the War in Iraq and the mess that we have made of foreign policy. The fact that 170 million is missing from our coffers makes domestic policies a little difficult for populist points to be implemented. The referendum on Bush's war will be what makes Bush lose the election. Americans want to be reassured that John Kerry can take over in a transition during war time. Voters can not be made to be optimistic in the middle of war and death. It's an almost bankrupt idea to think so. Until our National Security and domestic security is assured....various domestic policies won't matter as much as we would like to think.

Therefore the Kerry campaign theme must say..."I can keep America safe". Clark helps a great deal bring about the perception that Kerry is serious about this issue. Edwards cannot.

[cg]

65. I was there, too.

And your post reflects my feelings well.

Edwards gave a good speech. But, with a few changes, such as references to Kerry, it was essentially the same as his stump speech from the primaries. It was polished and well-performed.

But it wasn't nearly as passionate and heartfelt as Kucinich's speech the following day. I was really touched and impressed by Kucinich, while Edwards' performance was predictable and left me unmoved.

Like you, I appreciate Wes Clark for his knowledge and experience, and because he isn't a smooth-talking politician. He simply sees the trouble the country is in and feels duty-bound to try to help. I really think he's propelled by a sense of mission more than striving for position.

In campaigning, he excelled in Town Hall formats, where you could see the incredible depth and breadth of his knowledge. He was so patient in explaining the background of issues as well as in articulating solutions. I was amazed that he could call upon facts about such a wide variety of topics in response to questions! From technology to the arts, from domestic to geopolitical stategy, from classic philosophy to pragmatic problem-solving, I always learn when I listen to him.

And having seen him at two events in person, he is extraordinarily compelling and charismatic as well.

[Scoopie]

35. Turncoat

Wes isn't going to be SoS - that's going to Holbrooke.

I saw Edwards speak and puked. He's so SHALLOW.

Geez... what were you drinking?

[julialnyc]

41. no way

good vibes don't fight terror and they don't help make up for his lack of experience to face Cheney (ex- sec of defense) in a debate (although we know cheney is a monster, he can speak Foreign policy fluently).

The only place Kerry is beaten by bush in the polls is National Security...Edwards doesn't help!

[chimpymustgo]

42. John Edwards will help Kerry win the White House - and the Senate

and make it close in the House. And those folks running for those seats are begging Kerry to name Edwards.

Got to give the people...
give the people
what they want.

[PeaceProgProsp]

45. Should Kerry try to close that gap, or increase the gaps where he's

winning.

If he's ahead on everything else, why not pick a running mate who compounds his other advantages? Who plays to strengths?

[Raiden]

43. Edwards would make a great running mate!

Don't get me wrong, I greatly admire Clark and I would be satisfied if he were Kerry's running mate as well, however, I just feel that Edwards has the potential to revive disillusioned Democrats. He is like Bill Clinton without the baggage, an extremely likeable Southern Democrat with an optimistic message and new ideas. He has enough coattails to get more Dems elected AND he offers Kerry's candidacy charm, likability, and fresh new ideas. I get so frustrated to hear about the great "Repugs and the media are involved in a conspiracy to get Edwards chosen as VP" crap. I mean, all Rove would have to do if Clark is chosen as Kerry's running mate is get those clips of him praising the Bush Regime and show them to the public. The Repugs are ready for ANYBODY Kerry will choose as his running mate, and I think either Edwards or Clark has what it takes to deflect the barrage.

[FrenchieCat]

46. I beg to differ....

Kerry/Clark will run the tape of Clark praising Bush's foreign policy team in a commercial...then Clark will come on and say that like many Americans he gave Bush and his team the benefit of the doubt......then Kerry will walk on and say that he voted for the IWR because he also gave Bush the benefit of the doubt that he would do the right thing about Iraq via the UN.

Kerry will look at Clark and say...."but he took us into this war, and after 170 billions spent, and 800+ soldiers lost, it time to make the change of leadership. Clark will then look at the audience and say......George Bush has already been given the benefit of many doubts......Vote for John Kerry for President. We still have time to repair the damage done. Kerry will then say.......I'm John Kerry, and I approve of this message.

In reference to Edwards...please note Mississippi Governor Barbour who is being lauded for passing Tort reform in Mississippi just a few days ago...being talked about all over the media........I don't even want to think of what will be done to former Personal Injury Attorney Edwards, as it will be horrible to watch. The news focus will be the Obstetricians who are no longer practicing medicine because of malpractice insurance cost. How many women in certain states are not able to even find a good doctor for their pregnancy? (I was watching such a program just the other day). The focus on Tort reform and contrasting Edwards and the part he played in winning multi-million dollar cases that made him a multimillionaire will not disappear just because we want them to. Please be prepared for a full frontal assault on Senator Edwards, the likes that we never have seen (because he has never been vetted by the media on a National Stage).

It's just a scary thought.....for me, anyway. I want to win. The Iraq war will be the election issue....something that Edwards will not be able to even start talking about. His rehashed and rehearsed views on Iraq (he will be talking with ideas that really belong to others) will not be helpful to John Kerry.

You mentioned frustration? You ain't felt nothing yet, if your wish of Edwards on the ticket becomes a reality. Just remember where you heard this from.....cause it will be on your mind when you witness the future (hope not) where the media is cutting Edwards into tiny little pieces and feeding him to the public......now that...will be unbearable to you. Good luck!

[Darkamber]

48. We all want to win...

Do not doubt that the RW will be bringing up more and more GOP generals to talk against Clark as well as having having shots of Clark with Michael Moore. The GOP will do whatever they did to do to win.

Just a reminder...Edwards has been through this before. He's fully aware of the problem and has a solution to offer as a alternative to Tort reform and Caps. Also, it is not the lawyer, but the jury who decides the amount of money that will be paid. This happens after both sets of evidence are presented to that jury. The lawyer then only gets his cut and the rest goes to the victim. They are victims.

Malpractice insurance like all insurance is done in risk polls. One bad apple can increase the costs for all. The solution is not Tort reform. The solution is cracking down on the few bad doctors and bad lawyers. Edwards has a plan to crack down on the bad lawyers. He can present it to any who challenge him on this. And if you attack a personal injury lawyer that won his case, then you had better be willing to attack the jury and the victim as well.

I have no doubt that Edwards will deal with it just fine. And I'm sure that Clark would deal with what ever attacks are thrown his way as well.

[Paradise]

49. That's where this Clarkie comes out, as well! :) nt

[Piperay]

50. I'm a Clarkie too

but I really like Edwards and can be happy with a Kerry/Edwards team if it's not going to be a Kerry/Clark team. I would then like for Clark to get Powell or Rummy's cabinet position. :-)

[Donna Zen]

51. War

Since Edwards has unconditionally supported this war, there is little he can do to gain my support. An bush enabler that speaks well is still a bush enabler. And before your panties get twisted, I remind that I can read. Edwards is on record that he believed that Iraq was not only part of the war on terror, but that the invasion without UN backing was the correct thing to do.

I am in a swing state.

I will vote ABB

I will then puke on my shoes.

I would like to thank all of my fellow Democrats who so easily sell their souls in support of this war.

PS

The Dems will use Clark and then offer him nothing. You can take it to the bank. What is important to me is that Clark is not raising money and speaking out because he wants something. He wants to see this country living its values, he wants what's best for you. That you are unwilling to understand that makes no difference to him. We will only get good government when honest people are recognized and rewarded on the basis of merit not hype.

[Tom Rinaldo]

64. ...Clark is not raising money and speaking out because he wants something.

"What is important to me is that Clark is not raising money and speaking out because he wants something. He wants to see this country living its values,... We will only get good government when honest people are recognized and rewarded on the basis of merit not hype."

Thank you for saying that Donna, for saying all of it. Wes Clark has dedicated his life to serving his country, and has gladly accepted any sacrifice imposed on him in the course of so doing. He was seriously wounded, and returned to active service. Politics are not an end for him, it is the arena in which he can now best serve his country once again, returning honor and stability to America at home and abroad. It is his calling, he sees it as his duty to respond. That is the quality I so yearn to see in our leaders.

[Donna Zen]

72. Yo Tom!

As always, your two cents is much appreciated. I saw your picture at the NYC party. Ah...I wanted to be there but couldn't get time off.

Anyway, understanding otherwise well-meaning people forgetting the facts about the who and why of this war just leaves me shaking my head. This war may not have taken an equal toll in numbers of dead as Vietnam; nevertheless, in terms of long-term damage to the world, it has the potential to be far greater and sets up a scenario for a mythology that will polarize relationships at least for the rest of my life. Too abstract? Well as one informed voice has said: "...this is the worst foreign policy mistake the U. S. has ever made..."

If we are to get the government that many here profess to want, then issues and policy must trump packaged personality. "We don't want no re-ron." This war to me is issue number one because foreign policy is economic policy, the two remained coupled in a global village. I wouldn't have spent a day or dime supporting Wes Clark if he had supported this illegal and unnecessary invasion and equated Saddam and 911.

Wes Clark will be doing a fundraiser in NYC for Bowles, a man he has stumped for and given money to before. Bowles of course has endorsed Edwards; an example of Clark's dedication to the "mission" over any other consideration.

It is rare that I post at DU these days, and wonderful to see you, ever a voice of reason.

[spooky3]

53. Thanks so much for starting my day off beautifully!

[TexasSissy]

59. Hmmmm. Interesting. Edwards IS charismatic. Too charismatic?

Would overshadow Kerry? I don't think so, but then I don't have the kind of ego that would compel me to run for President.

[AP]

75. Do you want a president whose sense of self isn't strong enough that he

would turn down the best possible VP because he was afraid of being shown up?

I don't think Kerry is that unconfident.

[Jane Austin]

62. My take on the Edwards speech was different from Richardo's

Having heard what a great and charismatic speaker Edwards is, I was suprprised at how disorganized his speech was.

As I wrote on another thread on DU, it was a series of "And let me talk about this for a minute . . . ." items.

He was often interrupted by applause and standing ovations, but frequently these related to how brave and true we Texas Democrats are, and how Tom Delay is a scumbag, and how we can make a better showing this fall than people expect.

Edwards was very good in describing Kerry's bravery, courage and strength.

He was most moving when talking about how poverty and racism cannot be tolerated in this nation.

All in all, I was disappointed at the lack of organization in his remarks, and I don't think any DUers would have heard anything new in the speech.

He is mighty pretty, though, and blown up on huge screens on either side of the stage, he kind of took my breath away. :)



(edited for spelling)

[funky_bug]

63. I agree... with everything...

I saw him in Florida, and I experienced the same sort of ho-humness regarding his talk, but maybe 1) because I've heard it all before and 2) because I'm a bit biased due to my enthusiasm for Clark.

That being said, good NIGHT he is a handsome man. I was ashamed of myself for pushing three old ladies down, tripping over a seeing-eye dog and lunging into his inner circle for a handshake.

[chimpymustgo]

68. Wife...you are hilarious!

And God knows, we need a little levity in some of these threads.

:toast:

[funky_bug]

71. Hey, I'm biased, not BLIND!

Thanks for the props though ;)

[venus]

73. Silly. Clark is prettier. He's also in

top physical condition. Eye candy.

[LandOLincoln]

77. Agreed, though I must admit I haven't yet seen Edwards in person.

But Clark up close and personal? Madre de Dios!

Those eyes! Those cheekbones! That body! :wow: :loveya:

[Tom Rinaldo]

69. Saw Edwards recently on CSPAN

He was the keynote for a state Dem Convention (might have been Florida - it slips me, was a little over a week ago). I thought overall Edwards was a very effective speaker, not truly great but very good. However before he came on I was literally appalled by the build up given him. He was described as a hunk from the podium, which was bad enough, but what really got to me was when the convention hall was blackened to show an intro movie with highlights from his campaign for President. The whole thing screamed of Ego to me. Nothing remained on the screen long enough for anything thoughtful to be conveyed.

We're not talking about touching and powerful intimate exchanges with voters, this was more like a People magazine photo spread against a rock sound track with a song I couldn't place but which eerily kept repeating the word "I" seemingly every 5 seconds. I found myself having a strong negative gut reaction to Edwards, reinforcing my worse fears about the man. When he actually came on and spoke, I calmed down and felt better about him overall. He certainly has appeal and he said many things I strongly believe in. Still, the net result for me was I came away from watching that presentation less positive about Edwards than I went into it feeling.

[BootinUp]

70. Funny thing

is I think that type of image works with the a significant number of swing voters. The ones who don't have the time :eyes: to learn about the issues and the candidates. I am not trying to insult anyone, its just a fact that many voters don't get into the details/candidates like we do. I understand what your saying though, it can have a negative impact as well.

I stand by my assessment that Edwards wouldn't hurt the campaign, and would help the dems in other races down south. But I still prefer Wes on the issues and on the qualifications. And Wes would get support fot the ticket in many swing states.

[AP]

74. You shouldn't get so upset. They're building up someone who can take on

Republicans everywhere.

I would be more disturbed if they COULD build up this kind of excitement and DIDN"T.

It's good strategy, and they're taking advantage of everything they have with this guy. It's not ego. It's doing what you have to do to beat Republicans.

[Darkamber]

76. Interesting note I found about the VP chant in TX...

One of the JRE Grassroots members was there as a delegate and he did a very interesting in depth report of what went on. You can see it at...

http://www.jregrassroots.org/jre/viewtopic.php?t=2981

It's an amazing read and gives alot of insight to the process. And perhaps even shows where alot of us Edwards supporters are coming from.


However, I did find it interesting that he mentioned the VP chant and said it was started by Kerry supporters. In fact, it was the same group that lead the Kerry Causus group earlier that evening.

This does go along with what I had seen in my own caucus..long ago. The Kerry group was very supportive of Edwards in the VP spot. In my case, they were even chanting Kerry/Edwards as I walked by them at my causus.

Edwards and Kerry are alike on many issues and Kerry was my second pick after Edwards because of that fact.