So, I'm a black woman who happens to support Hillary Clinton who

[goldcanyonaz]

is sick and tired of being dissed on this forum. I first joined this forum to discuss our fellow Democrats in a positive light but fast learned that I was the odd man out in my support of Hillary Clinton. I've been called a sellout, and Uncle Tom, and even yesterday Jim Crowe of all things.

I've loved Hillary since I was a child in Africa, I was raised in Ghana, on the Ivory Coast where she is well repected and the idea of woman being President is cheered upon.

[Texas Hill Country]

1. well, I appreciate you being here!

[Writer]

2. I'm very glad you're here.

:hug:

And I'm sorry about the mob activity on this forum.

[goldcanyonaz]

5. Thank you Writer!

:loveya:

[Auntie Bush]

106. I'm glad you're here too and over there at that other place.

We need more people like you.

[LisaM]

3. Hi! I support Clinton too!

I'm proud to know you and congratulations on your steadfastness.

[Arrowhead2k1]

4. No one here is going to call you a sellout, atleast I hope not!

But you won't find much love for Hillary here either. Just don't take things too personally. It's not about race to many of us.

[BuyingThyme]

6. Lots of people here think Hillary is a horrible person.

I'm one of them. And I think less of her every day.

But if you want to support her, more power to you.

[Texas Hill Country]

10. how wonderfully positive and great. thanks for that amazingly insightful contribution

[BuyingThyme]

17. You're welcome.

Vote Obama!

:hi:

[ingac70]

11. I second that...

to each his own. I can't stomach Hillary any more.

[ScarletSniper]

54. Black woman here too and I agree with you...

[Occam Bandage]

66. I used to wholly disagree with this assertion. No longer.

[Two Americas]

94. frustration, anger, desperation

Clinton is a handy scapegoat, and bashing her and her supporters costs nothing and risks nothing for the person indulging themselves in it. It doesn't gain anything, and in fact hurts all of us. But it is an easy way to escape and deny reality and live in a comic book melodramatic fantasy world of good versus evil.

[Shae]

160. I think most of us didn't start out disliking Clinton...

My "dream candidate" was Dennis Kucinich. When I voted for Barack Obama on February 11, I was only leaning slightly towards him. It wouldn't have been too painful for me if Clinton had won at that point.

It has only been since then, that I have grown to dislike her.
When it became apparent that he was likely to be the nominee, she mocked his message of hope, she said that she AND John McCain were qualified to be President and Obama was just "a speech." We have seen her lie to try to make herself look better, and we've seen her twist innocent words of Obama's to make him look bad. These reasons, and others, have changed my opinion of her.

You, as a Clinton supporter probably don't see things the same way that I do. But I would bet that most of the Obama supporters see things similarly.
They are not some vile group that delight in bashing Ms. Clinton. We have suffered through 7+ years of George Bush, and we want to see a Democrat in the White House. We would like for the candidate who has the 10% chance of winning the nomination to stop trashing the candidate who has a 90% chance of winning the nomination.

[Two Americas]

162. feeding frenzy

I was always opposed to the Clinton candidacy. A few months back, I posted the information about Mark Penn, his role in her campaign and his history and connections. There was no huge uproar about Clinton as some terrible evil person back then. What has changed? "Grown to dislike her" is a product of the feeding frenzy around here, with people repeating and repeating the same talking points and whipping up a mob. Oppose her candidacy, I have no problem with that. I am not excited - to say the least - about either of the two remaining candidates. It is the feeding frenzy that is a problem, and I don't mean a problem for Clinton or her supporters, I mean a problem for the community, a problem for all of us, and a very big problem in the general. I think the pack behavior and highly emotionalized arguments and bullying are not going to be restricted to the primaries, nor only online. Almost anyone from the general public who came and read these threads would think that we had all lost our minds. You can deny here on the board all you want that there is a howling mob of self-righteous and arrogant people leading the Obama charge and "win" the arguments here - mostly because of numbers and a willingness to get very nasty. But that will send people from the general public running in the opposite direction. But even were that not true, still we are left with the problem here, of Obama partisanship destroying discussions here. That couldn't happen were it not for the fact that as Democrats and members of this community we are committed to the community and the party, so we are vulnerable and at a disadvantage. That is being taken advantage of by too many people for the sake of the emotional satisfaction that comes from participating in a hate fest.

[NightWatcher]

7. the only name I'll call you is a "Hillary Supporter"

you are not a sell out to your race, nor would you be a sell out to your gender if you supported Obama.

I dont like to paint with broad brushes. I will find plenty of other reasons to trash you on an individual issue basis.
:hi:

[SoCalDem]

8. and I am a 59 year old white woman who supports Obama

I have been called a racist and a sexist...all in the same thread:rofl:

don't take things personally...
I too like the idea of a woman president.. just not that woman :hug:

[Xipe Totec]

9. You're not alone

I support Hillary too.

Nothing against Obama, I just think Hillary will make a better president.


I try not to hold whatever is posted on this forum against either of the candidates.

[goldcanyonaz]

37. Thank you!

[Tatiana]

12. You're entitled to your opinion. I am a black woman as well.

Born in Texas, raised in Chicago and Puerto Rico.

We have different experiences and backgrounds living in American society. I respect your choice.

However, for myself, my children, and the future of this country, I support Barack Obama for President. I am sick of backroom politics and I am happy that, for once, the likely democratic nominee will be owned by the people, not the corporations.

[grasswire]

33. I'm sorry.

Respectfully, what is it that makes you think Obama is less owned by corporations?

[Tatiana]

52. I live in Chicago. I know the Chicago machinery pretty well.

Obama's had many opportunities to sell out. It's long been a source of frustration for many local politicos that they can't buy him off. Emil Jones has become more than tolerable (due to Obama's influence, I believe... others may disagree and say he's just mellowed with age).

He could have joined the DLC, but didn't, though early in his career, he could have used the $$$. Instead he relied on local sources of income and support from http://www.democracyforamerica.com/press/view/11">progressives organizations like DFA. As you know, Obama was one of the "Dean Dozen."

[populistdriven]

139. she needs to hold on tighter to the idea, but accept that hillary is a disaster for democrats

[butterfly77]

13. I was too ..

a few months ago, until I began seeing how dirty she is. THe comments about how mcCain was better than Obama and Obama had nothing but a speech that was the last straw among other things..

[blm]

14. Go ahead - but some of us KNOW that Clintons protected BushInc throughout the 90s

and that is the ONLY reason we have been stuck with Bush2 - the reason a 9-11 event happened - and the reason we are stuck in Iraq now.

But, by all means, it is far more important to the nation and the world that YOU loved the Clintons for what YOU believe happened in the 90s.

That said - you shouldn't be called names on any adult forum.

[JoFerret]

86. There's a certain obsessive quality to your posts

Makes it easier I guess - if you always stay with the one idea.

[blm]

88. The truth doesn't change.

No matter how you want it perceived.

I know EXACTLY what I'm doing. I'm as 'obsessive' about spreading the truth about Clintons as they were obsessive about protecting BushInc and as 'obsessive' as their goons spreading lies about Gore, Kerry, Dean and now Obama.

[JoFerret]

91. Keep it up. Everyone is paying full attention.

.

[blm]

151. To some degree many more Dems ARE paying attention to the lengths Clintons will go to

to undermine any other Democrat who comes between them and their agenda that serves the goals of the Bushes and the powerful elite.

Just a year ago, there were MANY on this board who refused to see it - now there are MANY who DO see it and they, too, are spreading the word about the Clintons and their abusive treatment of other Democrats and of the Democratic party.

[mod mom]

158. DU to many of us is about presenting the truth. If you want pro Clinton fluff, perhaps

her own website is the place to go.

Why don't you take the time and research on your own some of the information presented here. An informed electorate makes the best decisions!

[mod mom]

155. and their policies in 90's also helped created the bad economy we are now experiencing:

MFT STATUS W CHINA HAS DONE MORE DAMAGE THAN NAFTA (WHICH BILL IMPLEMENTED & HILLARY EXTOLLED) HE PROMOTED THIS POLICY DESPITE OPPOSITION FROM WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY:


Clinton to renew Normal Trade Relations with China



June 2, 1999
Web posted at: 4:51 p.m. EDT (2051 GMT)


WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, June 2) -- President Bill Clinton will notify Congress Thursday that he is renewing China's most-favored-nation (MFN) trading status -- now known as Normal Trade Relations (NTR) -- for another year, CNN has confirmed.

MFN/NTR status offers low tariffs and treats countries as normal trading partners.

The formal notification, required by the Thursday deadline, is expected to trigger a major debate in the House and Senate due to allegations of Chinese espionage against the U.S. and other recent diplomatic tensions, including charges China tried to influence the 1996 presidential election with illegal campaign contributions.

One of the first speak out against Clinton decision, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-California), derided the president for making the decision near the 10th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre.

-snip

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/06/02/china.mfn/



Clinton Proposes Renewing China's Most-Favored Trade Status

Congressional reaction mixed amidst larger China policy issues


WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, June 3) -- President Bill Clinton on Wednesday proposed renewing most-favored-nation (MFN) trade status for China, saying it was "clearly in our nation's interest" as he urged Congress to support the request.

-snip

House Speaker Newt Gingrich welcomed Clinton's recommendation for renewing MFN status for China, and vowed to work in a bipartisan manner to ensure that China receives it from Congress.

Gingrich, joined by Reps. Bill Archer (R-Texas) and Philip Crane (R-Ill.), made his comments in a letter to Clinton.

-snip

House Democratic leader Richard Gephardt issued a statement Wednesday opposing Clinton's plan to extend China's trading status for another year.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/06/03/china.trade/



AND THEN THERE IS NAFTA:

Hillary Clinton has made statements unequivocally trumpeting NAFTA as the greatest thing since sliced bread. The Buffalo News reports that back in 1998, Clinton attended the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, and thanked praised corporations for mounting "a very effective business effort in the U.S. on behalf of NAFTA." Yes, you read that right: She traveled to Davos to thank corporate interests for their campaign ramming NAFTA through Congress.

On November 1, 1996, United Press International reported that on a trip to Brownsville, Texas, Clinton "touted the president's support for the North American Free Trade Agreement, saying it would reap widespread benefits in the region."

The Associated Press followed up the next day noting that Hillary Clinton touted the fact that "the president would continue to support economic growth in South Texas through initiatives such as the North American Free Trade Agreement."

In her memoir, Clinton wrote, "Senator Dole was genuinely interested in health care reform but wanted to run for president in 1996. He couldn't hand incumbent Bill Clinton any more legislative victories, particularly after Bill's successes on the budget, the Brady bill and NAFTA."

-snip

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/hillary-clinton-pretends-_b_86747.html




AND LET'S NOT FORGET HIS ROLE IN BANKING MERGERS (THINK CURRENT MORTGAGE CRISIS), AND MEDIA CONSOLIDATION (TELECOM ACT OF 96)

ARTICLE | posted May 17, 2007 (June 4, 2007 issue)
Hillary Inc.

ARI BERMAN


-snip
It's a rousing speech, though ultimately not very convincing. If Clinton really wanted to curtail the influence of the powerful, she might start with the advisers to her own campaign, who represent some of the weightiest interests in corporate America. Her chief strategist, Mark Penn, not only polls for America's biggest companies but also runs one of the world's premier PR agencies. A bevy of current and former Hillary advisers, including her communications guru, Howard Wolfson, are linked to a prominent lobbying and PR firm--the Glover Park Group--that has cozied up to the pharmaceutical industry and Rupert Murdoch. Her fundraiser in chief, Terry McAuliffe, has the priciest Rolodex in Washington, luring high-rolling contributors to Clinton's campaign. Her husband, since leaving the presidency, has made millions giving speeches and counsel to investment banks like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup. They house, in addition to other Wall Street firms, the Clintons' closest economic advisers, such as Bob Rubin and Roger Altman, whose DC brain trust, the Hamilton Project, is Clinton's economic team in waiting. Even the liberal in her camp, former deputy chief of staff Harold Ickes, has lobbied for the telecom and healthcare industries, including a for-profit nursing home association indicted in Texas for improperly funneling money to disgraced former House majority leader Tom DeLay. "She's got a deeper bench of big money and corporate supporters than her competitors," says Eli Attie, a former speechwriter to Vice President Al Gore. Not only is Hillary more reliant on large donations and corporate money than her Democratic rivals, but advisers in her inner circle are closely affiliated with unionbusters, GOP operatives, conservative media and other Democratic Party antagonists.

It's not exactly an advertisement for the working-class hero, or a picture her campaign freely displays. Her lengthy support for the Iraq War is Clinton's biggest liability in Democratic primary circles. But her ties to corporate America say as much, if not more, about what she values and cast doubt on her ability and willingness to fight for the progressive policies she claims to champion. She is "running to help and restore the great middle class in our country," Wolfson says. So was Bill in 1992. He was for "putting people first." Then he entered the White House and pushed for NAFTA, signed welfare reform, consolidated the airwaves through the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (leading to Clear Channel's takeover) and cleared the mergers of mega-banks. Would the First Lady do any different? Ever since the defeat of healthcare reform, Hillary has been a committed incrementalist, describing herself as a creature of the "moderate, sensible center" whom business admires and rewards. During her six years in the Senate, she's rarely been out front on difficult economic issues. Given her proximity to money and power, it's not hard to figure out why she keeps controversial figures close to her--even if their work becomes a liability for her campaign.

-snip

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/berman



AND LASTLY, IF YOU THINK BILL IS A FRIEND TO DEMOCRACY AROUND THE WORLD-CHECK OUT WHO HE SUPPORTED TO HEAD AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT MONITORS ELECTIONS:

After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton

By JO BECKER and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
Published: January 31, 2008
Late on Sept. 6, 2005, a private plane carrying the Canadian mining financier Frank Giustra touched down in Almaty, a ruggedly picturesque city in southeast Kazakhstan. Several hundred miles to the west a fortune awaited: highly coveted deposits of uranium that could fuel nuclear reactors around the world. And Mr. Giustra was in hot pursuit of an exclusive deal to tap them.

Unlike more established competitors, Mr. Giustra was a newcomer to uranium mining in Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic. But what his fledgling company lacked in experience, it made up for in connections. Accompanying Mr. Giustra on his luxuriously appointed MD-87 jet that day was a former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.

-snip

snip

"Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent."

"Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy."

-snip

Just months after the Kazakh pact was finalized, Mr. Clinton’s charitable foundation received its own windfall: a $31.3 million donation from Mr. Giustra that had remained a secret until he acknowledged it last month. The gift, combined with Mr. Giustra’s more recent and public pledge to give the William J. Clinton Foundation an additional $100 million, secured Mr. Giustra a place in Mr. Clinton’s inner circle, an exclusive club of wealthy entrepreneurs in which friendship with the former president has its privileges.

LINK:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html

IT'S TIME FOR REALIZE TO RESEARCH JUST WHO THE CLINTON'S ARE AND TRULY EVALUATE THEIR PAST DEEDS. ONE LAST ONE, THE EAST LIVERPOOL OHIO WTI TOXIC WASTE INCINERATOR:

How The Clintons SOLD OUT OHIO: New Developments-Anthrax, Radioactive Waste, & Post Katrina Waste @ The East Liverpool Incinerator

FIRST, HERE IS THE WELL RESEARCHED KOS PIECE:

Ask Hillary About This Tonight. I Dare You.
by Zwoof

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 03:40:46 AM PST

-snip

While I was writing the original piece on the history of this foul project, a new ruling from the Ohio EPA allowed this incinerator, located 1,100 feet from an elementary school, to accept even more hazardous waste (anthrax, radioactive waste, infectious medical waste and mixed hazardous waste from Hurricane Katrina) than the original permit that was shrouded in corruption and approved by the Clinton Administration

Clinton and Al Gore promised the residents of East Liverpool, Ohio that they would not allow this incinerator originally approved by Bush '41 to operate. However, a Clinton EPA appointee, recommended by his classmate Hillary Clinton, approved the permit.

This is a tangled tale of corporatism, broken promises and an environmental disaster waiting to happen.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/31/21045/9822/688/446786

NEW RULING:

Ohio EPA Approves Permit Modification
For East Liverpool Incinerator
Ohio EPA has given final approval for Von Roll America, Inc., to receive, manage and incinerate waste not previously taken at its hazardous waste incinerator located at 1250 St. George Street in East Liverpool.

The permit modification allows the facility to receive and manage mixed infectious and hazardous waste. Typical wastes could include vaccines containing mercury; sharps containing chemotherapy drugs; growth plates and Petri dishes containing hazardous components; and tissue and organs from small lab animals preserved in ethanol or formaldehyde.

Ohio law requires that any infectious waste that also is hazardous waste be managed as hazardous waste. While the permit modification allows Von Roll to accept mixed infectious and hazardous waste, the facility will continue to be prohibited from accepting and treating waste that is only infectious.

On February 21, 2007, Ohio EPA held a public meeting in East Liverpool to discuss the draft permit modification. Comments presented at that meeting and during the public comment period were considered prior to final approval. Ohio EPA's written response to public comments is available online at: www.epa.state.oh.us/dhwm/von_roll_america_inc.html.

Issuance of the final permit modification can be appealed to the Environmental Review Appeals Commission (ERAC), 309 S. Fourth Street, Room 222, Columbus, Ohio 43215. Many appeals must be filed within 30 days of the issuance of the final permit; therefore, Ohio EPA recommends that anyone wishing to file an appeal contact ERAC at [phone] for more information. The appeal must be in writing and a copy must be received by the Ohio EPA director within three days of filing with ERAC. Further appeals can be made through civil courts.

The permit modification and related materials are available for review at the Carnegie Public Library located at 219 East Fourth Street, East Liverpool, and at Ohio EPA's Northeast District Office in Twinsburg by first calling [phone].

http://www.epa.state.oh.us/pic/nr/2008/january/VonRoll.html

Richard Wolf questioned: “…whether or not Anthrax is going to be incinerated.”

Response 2:
Yes, VRA will be authorized under this permit modification to manage anthrax, if it meets
the definition of a mixed infectious and hazardous waste (MIHW). MIHW is defined as
infectious waste that is also hazardous waste. In order to be managed as MIHW, waste
must be both infectious waste and hazardous waste simultaneously. If a waste stream
contained a mixture of untreated anthrax and hazardous waste with hazardous waste
codes, then VRA could request to manage the waste under this permit modification
request. Based upon Ohio EPA knowledge of waste generation, it is unlikely waste
streams containing both anthrax and hazardous waste will be generated.

-SNIP
During the hearing, it was clarified that the citizen was referring to the fact that examples
of possible mixed infectious and hazardous waste streams were provided on two
occasions. The examples provided were not identical on those two occasions, and the
citizen wondered why.

In the VRA news release for their public information meeting held on February 13, 2006,
VRA provided possible examples of MIHW including “...mixtures of these materials are
found during environmental cleanups such as those following the hurricanes that
pounded the Gulf Coast states. It is not uncommon in these and other disasters that
chemicals would be co-mingled with pharmaceuticals and other medicinal materials”.

In the Ohio EPA news release dated February 9, 2007, entitled Ohio EPA Schedules
Public Meeting Concerning East Liverpool Incinerator, examples included “...vaccines
containing mercury; sharps containing chemotherapy drugs; growth plates and Petri
dishes containing hazardous components; tissue and organs from small lab animals
preserved in ethanol...”.

pdf found here: http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dhwm/pdf/VRAResponsivenessSummary-101507.pdf
HERE IS SOME BACKGROUND ON THE SITE OF THE EAST LIVERPOOL OH TOXIC WASTE INCINERATOR:

The Problem

The Waste Technologies Industry, Inc. incinerator is located in the floodplain of the Ohio River in East Liverpool, Ohio. The surrounding area is elevated on a bluff, such that incinerator's stack is level with the windows of local buildings. The incinerator is located about 300 feet from homes and just 1100 feet from an elementary school. The location of the facility has been intensely criticized by citizens, scientists, and government officials alike. East Liverpool is located at the juncture of Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania, approximately 35 miles from Pittsburgh.

Waste Technologies Industry, Inc. (WTI)


WTI has also gained significant political support, as one of the original partners in the corporation was Jackson Stephens. Stephens, an Arkansas investor, was known as a significant contributor to Reagan, Bush, and Clinton campaigns.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

The EPA has been accused of having bias in favor of WTI and carrying out decision-making activities without required public participation. The agency also violated rules established in RCRA during the WTI permit application process. EPA admitted such wrong-doing at a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee's subcommitteeon Administrative Law and Government Relations, as well as the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

-SNIP

http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/mcormick.html#Key%20Actors


The incinerator failed its March 1993 test burn.<6> Among other shortcomings, its efficiency rating for burning mercury was only 7 percent, as opposed to the required 99.99 percent.

An April 1993 inspection of the facility revealed numerous violations. For example, employees had failed to store some of the hazardous waste in closed containers and were not monitoring the underlying soil conditions, although cracks had already appeared in the incinerator's foundations.

In late June, after a three-year investigation, the Ohio attorney general issued a heavily censored report concluding that, yes, because of all the ownership changes, under state law the incinerator permit was invalid after all. Nonetheless, on August 24, the U.S. EPA ruled that although Von Roll wrongfully failed to register the 1989 ownership change, this did not invalidate the incinerator's operating permit. The EPA just fined Von Roll $64,900 for failing to modify the permit.

On July 28, an EPA whistle-blower charged two senior EPA administrators with fraud for allowing the incinerator to operate despite the decision of the Ohio attorney general. In a memo to U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, Hugh Kaufman, whose job is to act as an internal watchdog at the EPA, claimed that Deputy Administrator Robert Sussman and Region 5 Director Valdus Adamkus modified the incinerator's permit to grant it "temporary authorization" to operate, even though they knew the permit was legally invalid. He called for a criminal investigation into Sussman, Adamkus, and the "business entities" running the incinerator. (The federal Justice Department has had no comment on Kaufman's charges.)<7>

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/motherjones.html

VP CANDIDATE AL GORE MADE CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO THE PEOPLE OF THE AREA TO BLOCK THE OPENING BUT ONCE IN OFFICE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION TURNED THEIR BACKS AND ALLOWED IT TO GO FORWARD:

Clinton Will Not Fight Toxic-Waste Incinerator
By KEITH SCHNEIDER,
Published: March 18, 1993

More than three months after Vice President-elect Al Gore vowed to block the opening of the nation's newest hazardous-waste incinerator, the Clinton Administration said today that it would not oppose the owner's plan to begin commercial operation of the plant, probably next month.

The decision, which was disclosed today by top officials at the Environmental Protection Agency, came a day after a Federal appellate court in Cincinnati cleared the way for the incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio, to begin accepting tons of toxic wastes.

-SNIP

But legal experts and a top official of the Environmental Protection Agency said the Federal hazardous-waste law gave the E.P.A. the authority to bar the incinerator from operating and could have halted a test burn that the incinerator's owner, Von Roll Inc., needed before it could begin commercial operation.

The Administration's decision represents a setback for Mr. Gore, who has made a specialty of environmental issues. The Vice President campaigned in the Ohio River Valley with Mr. Clinton last year and twice promised to investigate how one of the country's largest toxic-waste incinerators was built near the center of a densely populated community, where its emissions could blow onto a school, hundreds of homes and several churches.

-snip


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE4DC1F39F93BA25750C0A965958260

Behind The Scenes In Washington
When Clinton became president, he appointed Carol Browner head of U.S. Environmental Protection Agency,
Ms. Browner then sent a small cadre of scientists to court in Cleveland, Ohio, to serve as expert witnesses on behalf of Waste Technologies, Inc. (WTI).
Because a memo to Ms. Browner from one of her staff was leaked to Greenpeace (a plaintiff in the lawsuit trying to shut down WTI), Ms. Browner's staff were forced to admit under oath that after Ms. Browner took office on January 20th, EPA conducted a secret risk assessment on the WTI incinerator.

EPA's secret risk assessment revealed that the incinerator would be1000 times more dangerous than EPA had estimated in the risk assessment they released to the public.
New EPA appointee Browner recused herself from the issue, because her husband had connections to anti-WTI activists that opposed the incinerator. She left the matter in the hands of Robert Sussman, Deputy EPA Administrator.
After moving into Pennsylvania Avenue, Hillary had the opportunity to hook up with an old classmate.

The EPA Deputy Administrator Robert Sussman that eventually approved WTI's application was a law school classmate of Bill and Hillary Clinton.
Sussman had previously acted as legal counsel to the Chemical Manufacturing Association, at a time when two of its biggest clients, Du Pont and BASF, were negotiating contracts to supply two-thirds of the waste to WTI." The Nation Magazine
The resumption of operations was approved as Robert Sussman, deputy administrator of the EPA, met in Washington with Ohio Valley residents and Hugh Kaufman, an EPA whistleblower, who want the agency to shut down the incinerator.
The group questioned Sussman's involvement in Waste Technologies matters in light of his former private legal representation of chemical brokers who have contracts with the plant. The plant opponents also cited Sussman's appointment to the EPA through the influence of first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, whose former law firm represented the original founder of Waste Technologies.Source Archives Cleveland Plain Dealer (hat tip to Patriot Daily for the link)
-SNIP
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/31/21045/9822/688/446786


WHY WOULDN'T THE CLINTONS ACT TO STOP THIS TOXIC WASTE INCINERATOR?:

Stephens Inc. was founded by Witt Stephens, a state legislator's son who parlayed a Depression-era belt-buckle, Bible, and municipal-bond business into an immense personal fortune. After his retirement in 1973, the company was run by his shy younger brother, Jackson (a classmate of Jimmy Carter's at the Naval Academy). Witt Stephens and Stephens Inc. did much to create the economic paradox that is modern Arkansas: a desperately poor state with a scant 2.3 million inhabitants that is nonetheless home to a number of wealthy companies. Without the financial assistance of the Stephens brothers, Sam Walton might have ended his days as the most innovative merchant in Bentonville. Stephens money was also important to the fortunes of enterprises as various as Tyson Foods and Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, the television producer and reigning First Friend. Stephens Inc. is an important client of the Rose law firm, whose chairman, C. Joseph Giroir, made Hillary Rodham Clinton a partner. And back in 1977, Stephens assisted BCCI's infiltration of the American banking system by brokering the latter's purchase of National Bank of Georgia stock held by Bert Lance, former President Jimmy Carter's friend and disgraced budget director.

Jackson Stephens (who turned over the reins to his son, Warren, in the late eighties) and his firm were both substantial contributors to the campaigns of Presidents Reagan and Bush (to the tune of at least $100,000 in 1980 and 1989), but they have been closer still to Bill Clinton (whom Witt Stephens had been known to call "that boy").

On two occasions, once when Clinton was running for reelection in Arkansas in 1990 and again in March 1992, when his battered presidential campaign was broke, the Stephens family saved Clinton's bacon with an infusion of money. Indeed, it may not be too much to say that their Worthen Bank's emergency $3.5 million line of credit saved the presidential campaign from extinction. --L.J.D.


http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1993/11/davis.html



LEAGUE OF CONSERVATION VOTERS GAVE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION A C- FOR THEIR FIRST YEAR:

Washington, D.C. - The League of Conservation Voters (LCV), the self-described political arm of the environmental movement, has given President Clinton a middling grade of "C-plus" overall for "not working up to potential" during his first year in office.

In particular, the League criticized the Clinton Administration for failing to halt Waste Technologies Industries' controversial hazardous waste incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio.

-snip

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_fewer_onsite_hazwaste /

SO WHY DID THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION TURN THEIR BACKS ON THIS CASE?

Stephens was also the biggest financial backer of the Clinton-Gore campaign. The Little Rock investment banker had supported Clinton in each of his campaigns for governor, raised $100,000 in contributions for the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign, and extended a $3.5 million line of credit to the campaign through his bank. Hillary Rodham Clinton, while a partner at the Rose law firm in Little Rock, had represented a company controlled by the Stephens family.

Stephens' also had strong ties to previous presidents and was a major contributor to the Republican party. In 1991, Stephens had arranged a bail-out for a small Texas oil company on the verge of bankruptcy, according to the Wall Street Journal. One of the company's directors and stockholders was George W. Bush, now the leading Republican candidate for president. The Stephens family also contributed to the campaign that won him his current job, Governor of Texas.

On January 15, 1992, East Liverpool residents sought an injunction against the test burn. A federal judge in Cleveland ruled in March, 1993 that WTI could conduct the eight-day test burn but suspended further operation because of public health concerns raised at the hearing. Weeks later, an appeals court in Cincinnati overturned the decision, and the facility began operating.

WTI failed part of its test burn in 1993, releasing four times more mercury than allowed. Children at the elementary school were tested for mercury in their urine prior to WTI operation and again six months after the facility started burning as part of a state health study. In the first test, 69 percent of the children tested negative; the follow-up test found that nearly the same number tested positive.

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/jennl.html




But a top E.P.A. official and several legal experts in and out of the agency said the Administration had the authority to lift the permit for testing as soon as it took office. Now that the issue is being decided by the courts, any Administration action would swiftly be drawn into the litigation.

Investigators for the E.P.A. and Congressional committees who have followed the case speculated today that there may have been several reasons in addition to the legal issues for the Clinton Administration's failure to aggressively fight the incinerator immediately upon taking office.

The original investor in the $160 million plant was Jackson T. Stephens, chairman of Stephens Inc. in Little Rock, Ark., one of the nation's largest investment banking companies, and the Stephens family is a leading financial backer of Mr. Clinton's campaign. Mr. Stephens sold his interest in the incinerator in 1990, a company spokesman said, and it is not known whether he retains a financial stake.

-snip

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE4DC1F39F93BA25750C0A965958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

[Lucky 13]

15. That's great.

I would never call you any of those things. But I will disagree with you about Hillary. Vehemently.

If the tone here is too harsh for you, perhaps consider checking out another forum.

[kikiek]

16. We should be so lucky in the "land of the free". Thanks for being here and supporting her!

[goldcanyonaz]

19. Wow, thank you so much for this. It warms my heart.

[exsoccermom]

27. Just looking at her daughter

You see that she is a good person and has done many fine things-- this is even before you get to her work with Senators from both parties to pass legislation that is important to the American family.

[kikiek]

31. They are wonderful and intelligent people! They have been completely trashed. What a disgrace.

[lachattefolle]

149. It's been a very sad, and telling, primary season, hasn't it? n/t

[tekisui]

18. I am glad you're here.

Hillary Supporters are fine by me.

So much of what has been harmful and hateful here and elsewhere comes from people who focus on hate, rather than what unites and lifts us.

[Bensthename]

20. I support Obama but can see why you are frustrated.

Dont worry about the haters. Emotions are high right now.. I'm sure most regret or will regret what they have said..

[izzybeans]

21. I'm a white male supporting Obama. We have more in common then one might think.

I'm honored to be here with you.

Clinton is a formidable candidate and you have every reason to respect her.

I personally don't like her campaign choices. But that is me.

Thanks for sharing. :)

[goldcanyonaz]

25. WOW!! I'm honored to be with you as well.

[Bluenorthwest]

157. There are many campaign choices

Of both candidates that I find to be disgusting. I'll have to get over one set of disgust or the other to cast my vote. Those who see this nasty fight as one sided on either side are practicing selective vision. Evangelists preaching against gay people. Voting for the Patriot Act. Yes, this has been an ugly campaign. On both sides. Obama is the only one who let surrogates attack my family instead of the other candidate, so that does stick in my craw a bit.

[cbayer]

22. I am glad you are here and support your standing up for yourself.

Many here are bullies, nothing more. Name calling and bullying are weapons of the weak. If you look at them that way, they are a lot less threatening.

BTW, one of my favorite artists is Cesaria Evora. Although I have never been to the Ivory Coast, she evokes a beautiful picture of it for me.
:toast:

[goldcanyonaz]

35. From what I have read, you are a gay person, and I stand up for you too.

You will NOT be ignored any longer.

[cbayer]

41. I am a strong supporter of LGBT people.

I am flattered that you thought I was gay. Many of my gay friends wish I were, LOL!

[goldcanyonaz]

61. Then your friends will NO LONGER be IGNORED!

[grantcart]

23. I enjoy your tart remarks and have always found you fair

[goldcanyonaz]

28. Thanks Grant!

[Secret_Society]

24. I agree. I was actually afraid to start posting...

here. I had been reading DU for a while but have seen numerous Hillary supporters with a only a few posts be told to leave the forum. I thought this was a place where a fellow liberal could come and discuss issues and events, not get berated. Disappointed.

[goldcanyonaz]

30. I hope you're more brave now.

[BuyingThyme]

36. Welcome to DU Secret_Society!

:hi:

You aren't one them Skull and Bones, are ya?

[Occam Bandage]

68. From what I've seen, people don't get berated here simply for being Clinton supporters.

They get berated for posting bullshit to further their goal of taking down Obama. If you think that being a Clinton supporter means you have to post bullshit, then yeah, you won't last long. If you recognize that you can support Clinton and generally try to post truthful things, you'll be fine.

[Secret_Society]

78. Well I don't contend that all people here berate other...

liberals, but I have seen others who have told low post Clinton supporters to leave DU for posting neutral and truthful messages. And its not only Clinton supporters who post bullshit. Enough blame to go around.

[grantcart]

124. The ones that had a few posts and were told to leave the forum

are people who people who others have thought are people who were 'tombstoned' for violating the rules and have simply returned to disrupt the forum..


Please feel free to post whatever you want and you will find many Obama supporters who will defend your right to do so within the rules, which from this post I am sure you would do so.


Welcome to DU

[LulaMay]

26. It's nice to hear that the idea of a woman president is cheered upon there. I'm glad you're here.

[susankh4]

29. Thanks for being here!

[Raine]

32. I'm the opposite, a white woman who supports Obama

don't let it get you down, stay strong, support who you choose. :thumbsup:

[MoonRiver]

34. goldcanyonaz

:loveya::hug:

[ej510]

38. I could careless who you support sista. As long as you vote but Hillary......

has acted like an horses ass!

[RiverStone]

39. I may disagree with you on who you support...

But please know your race or gender would never play into why your should or should not support anybody.

I'd like to think we judge people based on their character, not their color - that is my experience with most folks here.

I think it's great you feel so passionate about Hillary - I feel equally passionate about Obama.

I'm confident the choice of the majority will win the nomination and that Obakma will be our next president.

I also hope you stay and lend your perspective to the battle ahead with the rethugs this fall.

peace~:)

[BlooInBloo]

40. I have no problem with any who vote for the Democratic nominee for President - welcome!

[la la]

42. I appreciate your being here, as well.

I support Hillary Clinton, and will till the end...I will also vote for a Democrat because I believe the last 7+ years have been deadly ones and will not trash 'my' party- because it's the party I believe in.

The dissing here of Hillary Clinton has been nasty and doesn't make DU look better. I've been reading it long before I started posting and I can't remember such vicious trashing of a member of 'our' party like this.

So- goldcanyonaz, post on and let us all hope for the best - whether it be Clinton or Obama---( but in my heart, I'll still be for Clinton!)

[goldcanyonaz]

47. Thanks La LA!!

[ecstatic]

43. who on DU called you that?

:shrug:

[PBS Poll-435]

44. Thank you for being here.

I have respected Hillary since I was a child too.

I voted for her (not so much Bill) in the 1992 Weekly Reader election. (I was 10)

[libbygurl]

45. Hillary would be proud to have you as a supporter - as I do. Wonderful to have you here -

- since you've shown yourself to be one of the SMARTEST people in the room everytime you're around.

So glad to know that in Ghana, they celebrate the idea of a woman president. Unlike here, sadly.

[goldcanyonaz]

49. OMG! Thank you, so very much.

[desi]

46. Glad you withstood the invective

and did not allow "them" to run you off goldcanyonaz. :pals:

K&R

[jesus_of_suburbia]

48. Thanks goldcanyonaz! I'm a male Hillary supporter who appreciates you!

Once this primary is over.. I will support the Dem nominee PERIOD! I think it's gonna be Obama.

That's what it's about in the end. But it is very sad to be a Hillary supporter on this board now.


I never thought people could be so heartless towards another Democrat who gets almost half the vote.

[Guaranteed]

50. She's not a leader. She abandoned our country during the

worst years of the Bush Administration.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that because they weren't paying attention at the time. But those who were around here, around DU when Iraq started- they know.

[goldcanyonaz]

55. So, your implication is that I'm simple. Have you ever been to Ghana?

I doubt you have.

[Guaranteed]

59. I'm not saying you're simple. I'm saying you weren't paying attention

to what Clinton was doing- or, not doing, rather- when the chips were down.

She totally avoided the media and any semblance of a leadership role when Bush was steamrolling the Democrats. She had the name to stand up and do something, but chose not to- in fact, chose to align herself against her own base, those against the war.

For years.

Then she showed up looking for the presidential nomination, counting on the fact that there were people out there who hadn't noticed that she had been gone for so long.

[goldcanyonaz]

74. Your comments can't erase the good that they have done for us.

[la la]

70. I was 'around here'

BEFORE * started the Iraq war. I was paying attention. I was against it all. How many DU-ers are still here from that time? How many of those are blaming Hillary Clinton for every f'en thing that's happened in the world since time began? geeze.

Clinton did not abandon the country --you're just venting your hatred for her--who knows really why so many here seem to have that hatred. It's worse than the hatred for * - which many of us seem to have forgotten about.

It's beyond the point where someone can post something for and about Clinton here, without them being immediately trashed and treated with a snarky response.

To the 'newby' who was 'afraid' to post here---welcome and please keep on posting-- there does need to be some even handedness, even here!

[Dinger]

51. I Support You goldcanyonaz

Thank you for your post:hug: :yourock:

[Occam Bandage]

53. Positive light? Coulda fooled me. Still, this can be a negative place, I suppose.

[goldcanyonaz]

57. Have you been to Ghana?

[Occam Bandage]

62. Nah. Have you been to Yiwu?

[goldcanyonaz]

73. I've never been to China but can't wait till we have a Chinese Presidential nominee.

[rasputin1952]

56. Race and gender should have nothing to do w/this contest...

somehow, they find their way in...:(

Those who would call you names or assault your integrity are, sadly, deplorable. For the record, I have no choice yet.

We had a couple of sisters at my Community College last year from the Ivory Coast, nice young ladies, it was a pleasure to discuss things with them. One was going to work toward Nursing, the other Agriculture, both were doing fine, and I do believe the went to Univ NE Lincoln.

Pleasure to meet you...:hi:

[goldcanyonaz]

81. Pleasure to meet you as well!

G-D Bless You!

[zabet]

58. k and r

Glad you are here! :hi:

[TheDonkey]

60. Whatever

Seriously, this faux outrage has to end. Who cares that you like Hillary. Go for it. Just don't expect us to sit back and let you bash Obama and cry wolf and not call you and your friends out.

Sorry we are not making a cross for your to fully show your GREAT sacrifice... :eyes:

[la la]

72. where and when

did goldcanyonaz 'bash' Obama?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

( wasn't that a 'nice' comment you added? Your name must truly show your personality and characteristics)

[mckeown1128]

63. "the idea of a woman being President is cheered upon"?!?!?

Hillary's gender like Obama's race shouldn't even considered when choosing president. I hope you aren't voting for her "because" she is a woman.

That being said... I am sorry ignorant idiots called you those things. Those who call you a sellout because you aren't voting based on race... are themselves probably voting for Obama for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately both candidates have voters supporting them for the wrong reason..


Obama has the "vote for because he is a man or because he is black" voters.

Hillary has the "vote for her because she is a woman or because she is white" voters.

[goldcanyonaz]

71. Thank you, Mckeown, but as a woman from Africa, voting for a woman would be

celebrated, considering we've only voted for men prior to this election.

[ProSense]

77. They (including his grandmother) are cheering Obama in Kenya. n/t

[Emit]

64. People on DU called you those things?

When? That's when you need to hit the alert button

[mikekohr]

65. White, middle aged, rural, working man for Obama

We are all family here. The policy differences between Senators Obama and Clinton are negligible. Regardless of who our nominee is, we will/should be supporting her/him. I respect you and your support for Senator Clinton and I wish that many of the harsh words that are often used here in this forum would be softened. We can respectfully disagree without being disagreeable or obnoxious.

May God bless you and your family,

mike kohr

[goldcanyonaz]

75. Thank you! Much love to your family as well.

[shayes51]

67. I appreciate you.

[goldcanyonaz]

87. Thank! you!

[Arkansas Granny]

69. It's been kind of lonely for Clinton supporters around here lately.

It's good to meet someone else who respects and supports her.

:hi:

[knixphan]

76. I'd pound the street for Barbara Boxer!

If she ever chose to run...

[JohnnyLib2]

79. Sheepish confession--

I sometimes wait for you to post when pro-Hillary comments are needed, and then take a deep breath and follow your lead. And, I've been thinking of you as a rancher from Arizona, like the strong women I grew up around. Glad you are here and pleased to learn more about your background.

:thumbsup: :hi:

[goldcanyonaz]

80. Really? G-D Love you!

I'm so flattered that I don't even know what the fuck to do.

OMG! You're Momma/Daddy raised you right!

:loveya:

[Bluebear]

82. I'm delighted to know more about you and you always have my respect & affection

I too, have been called everything up to and including racist for even questioning not only Obama but many leading candidates, including Clinton. I am glad you are here.

[goldcanyonaz]

89. Bluebear, man.....

You're one hell of a person. You bring tears to my eyes. Why? Because you're a champion in your own right, you've never once backed down from voicing the rights of gays, a voice we need to hear LOUD AND CLEAR every election until my rights our yours.

G-D Love You!

[JoFerret]

83. Hang in there

It's hard to buck the mob.

[Mezzo]

84. I support Hillary too!

Thank you for your post.

[bigwillq]

85. You're free to support whichever candidate

you want. No matter your sex, race or creed.

Don't let the haters get you down.

[Two Americas]

90. welcome

I appreciate your contributions. Glad you are here.

:hug:

[question everything]

92. Thank you for your courageous post

Isn't it interesting that women who do not support Hillary, and who stand up and declare this are being praised, yet blacks who would do the same about Obama are being harassed.

This is no longer DemocaticUnderground; this is ObamaUpperground and the Obama supporters here are as bad as the freepers.

[saltpoint]

93. Senator Clinton might have done a great deal better than she has had she

run a better campaign.

Her not running a worthy campaign has nothing to do with her being a woman. It has nothing to do with feminism generally, in my opinion.

Quite a damn few women are supporting Barack Obama. And properly so -- he's run the superior campaign. It isn't about gender or sex. It's about who a majority of Democratic voters want to lead for the next administration.

As for the dissing, you won't have to look hard to find race-baiting by Sen. Clinton's surrogates. Ferraro's remarks especially were untoward, uncalled for, and framed on FOX News, the ultimate Republican mainstream propaganda machine. That interview with John Gibson was greenlighted by Sen. Clinton. She should have known better than to ask Ferraro to stage it; Ferraro should have known better than to consent to do it. It was shameful.

[goldcanyonaz]

97. OC, wtf had Ferraro done for race baiting that you haven't done for sexist baiting?

You're the one who started a poll about Hillary and where she would be had it not been for her husband. Where have you been a champion for black rights like the Clintons have?

I'll wait....

[saltpoint]

99. Wait as long as you please. I stand by that poll. Mrs. Clinton is not a

self-achieved woman in the arena of politics. She is remarkable in many specific areas of accomplishment and I have never -- not once -- subtracted from those accomplishments and have defended her frequently for achieving them.

You got that wrong.

The Clintons were perceived as being "champions" for black rights, in your phrse, but after South Carolina, a sturdy reassessment of that status is demanded. Bill Clinton in particular stunk up the place in South Carolina on the subject of race.

Mrs. Clinton was able to enjoy the political celebrity and cash cow she accumulated because she was her husband's wife. I do not believe -- and neither does anyone else -- that Patty Murray or Barbara Mikulski would have enjoyed front-runner status and a multi-million dollar campaign kitty going into this nomination contest.

[goldcanyonaz]

100. And, many would stand behind Ferraros thinking in regards to Obama.

WTF has he ever done for us blacks in all his years in the state senate? We know he renamed a post office, but what did he do for blacks?

[saltpoint]

101. Jesus, what a vacuous comment.

You might try putting in the community-building effort he has in the Chicago area before you knock him on contributions to the social fabric.

[goldcanyonaz]

104. Vacuous, or not, where where you these last years in fighting for we blacks?

[saltpoint]

105. You can entertain yourself by questioning my citizenship til you are blue in

the face.

I'm not obliged to explain my contributions to you here or anywhere else.

Your OP was vacuous.

Read it again. Here are your key points:

1. You are a black woman. You're for Hillary.
2. You've been called names for your support of Hillary on DU -- names which a HUGE majority of people on this site have NEVER called you.
3. You're tired of the dissing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those aren't points at all, really.

[goldcanyonaz]

109. Your vote is no more regarded than mine.

[saltpoint]

110. No one has claimed it was.

[EFerrari]

137. Shhhhhhhhhhhh! You're interrupting the world's

smallest violins.

:hi:

[saltpoint]

147. LOL -- a belated good mornin' to ya, sfexpat2000, you clear-headed,

long-seeing, true-blue citizen, you!

And a poet besides!


:hi:

[EFerrari]

163. The witch that came (the withered hag)

The witch that came (the withered hag)
To wash the steps with pail and rag,
Was once the beauty Abishag,

The picture pride of Hollywood.
Too many fall from great and good
For you to doubt the likelihood.

Die early and avoid the fate.
Or if predestined to die late,
Make up your mind to die in state.

Make the whole stock exchange your own!
If need be occupy a throne,
Where nobody can call you crone.

Some have relied on what they knew;
Others on simply being true.
What worked for them might work for you.

No memory of having starred
Atones for later disregard,
Or keeps the end from being hard.

Better to go down dignified
With boughten friendship at your side
Than none at all. Provide, provide!

-- Robert Frost

:)

[Two Americas]

167. very important point

It is very difficult to get thoughtful discussions going around here about racism, and whenever any of us attempt to, there are certain to be several people jumping in to express racist ideas. Too few DUers recognize that or challenge people about that. Vicious, ugly, hateful comments are almost certain to appear any time the subject of racism comes up, and far too many DUers are willing to "consider" them as "opinions" or to accept and tolerate them.

Yet now, we are to believe that suddenly most of the people on the board have been transformed into courageous fighters against racism.

There is tokenism happening here, in my opinion: the elevation of one individual as a method for denying racism, as a way to alleviate guilt. I am not saying that this is true of all Obama supporters, of course, nor is it any reflection on Obama, whom I admire and respect greatly. Blacks carry a higher burden when seeking positions of power and influence, and he has handled that challenge brilliantly. But the wide discrepancy between the number of people who cared about racism before the Obama candidacy, and the number of people now portraying their support of Obama as a stance in opposition to racism, is very telling. That is tokenism, not much different than the first Bush administration saying, in effect: "call us racist will you? Look, we put Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court. That proves we are not racist."

Support for Obama is not necessarily a blow against racism. Opposition to his candidacy is not necessarily racist.

[RBInMaine]

95. I am an Obama supporter. This is US politics. Tough stuff. Thank you. After the primary is over,

we will overwhelmingly unite behind the nominee whomever it is. But right now we have to get through this tough primary fight, and tough it is. Sorry you've had some negative experience, but politics is very tough stuff. Let it roll off. Don't get cynical or discouraged. Democracy isn't easy. Thanks for your involvement in the process, which is good and healthy no matter who you support.

[Maribelle]

96. I am truly delighted you are here

:hug:

[cliffordu]

98. Well, I didn't know this before now and don't care

that you're a black woman.

What I've responded to is your POSTS. If I don't agree I try to respond in kind:

Nasty post== nasty response from me.

Good argument == good argument from me.

I would never attack you for being who you are, ever.

Cheers!

:hi:

[cooolandrew]

102. I have to say my dad is from Ghana, I was surprised he supported Hillary...

...SO, I concur that Ghana is for Hillary. My dad actually called her a saint which unnerved me. All I can say is imagine if someone had played kitchen sink against Hillary how would it make you feel and say it was another woman. Would it be right ? I mean especially since Hillary has suffered similar attacks in her life you would feel she had some empathy. I like empathy in people, if I found it in her campaign over Obama she would be my number one. The basic thing is, is 2 different perspectives in Africa Clintons have done great things for that continent, can never take that away, would never try to either, but in America black people have suffered and they did like the clintons but to see racial poltics from the clintons hurts to the core, folks expected so much better. I expected so much better it's not wat democrats stand for and I am proud what they stand for, really. And by definition that makes me proud of Sen. Barack Obama. I feel one day Ghana will hold similar reverance for this man, if they are willing to embrace the new. Ghana is matriarchal and Obama has those roots, so don't count out HRC as VP that is why he himself has not attacked her hardly at all.

[goldcanyonaz]

103. I didn't wish to include that she was considered a Saint in Ghana, but there you have it.

[cooolandrew]

107. No not to dismiss your view just expressing my perspective, fully entitled to vote as you wish.

Women do have high regard in lot of African culture and I guess it is only natual she would be the first choice. Sorry if it came across overly passionate. Just I have good faith in Obama. It in no way says that you are wrong to vote Hillary if that is what your heart believes. It was very cool to get more from the view of Ghana.

[goldcanyonaz]

111. I understand and respect your support for Obama, but Hillary is very loved in Ghana.

[cooolandrew]

112. Yeah, something that I didn't know so when my dad visited recently I didn't realise I was at odds..

.. with him. Anyway least it gives me more insight and I appreciate that. It shows I will have to handle conversations of politics more careful next time he rings, this poltics game is kinda tricky.

[goldcanyonaz]

113. You're a good son, but you probably already know that.

:grouphug:

[cooolandrew]

144. Thanks that's nice of you to say. What is good to hear that in some ways there reputation is in tact

if they are reading this it will be reassuring, but I am still confused at their tactics. I do respect though that considering the Clintons have done so much for Africa that Barack might be seen as less friendly to the contintnet. Not because he wouldn't care but America liely to be more suspicious who his loyalites are too. This clip might reassure a bit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikg6gj71U9k

[madrchsod]

117. our best friend is from ghana...

interesting three people tonight with connections to ghana...

[goldcanyonaz]

127. Were they brought up there too? How interesting.

[Ken Burch]

108. You shouldn't have been called any of those things.

And I say that as a white male Obama supporter.

Let's try to make this a bit less personal, folks.

It's the candidates we should go after, not each other.

[EFerrari]

138. I have to wonder if those allegations are even true.

The poster has been asked several times and has not answered or did I miss something?

Usually, this poster is on the other end of these unfortunate exchanges.

[Voice for Peace]

114. I am curious when you came to this country, and if that is a factor in your view

of Hillary. I don't hate her but I dislike her politics. I have been 100% cynical about politics and politicians in general up until this primary. There is something so different here from what I've ever seen -- or maybe I just was never paying enough attention. I left the country during the Vietnam war, Nixon & Johnson and returned in time for Reagan. Never liked Bill Clinton, it was something visceral, not logical.

I too like the idea of a woman president, and of more real women in power around the world, especially in Africa -- but in my opinion Obama has more of the qualities I'd want in a woman president. It's a different kind of strength than what I see in Hillary. Don't even know if I can put it into words. Whoever has it -- it doesn't really matter to me if they are male or female, white or black.

[cooolandrew]

145. For me it's like this you look nto his eyes and you see empahty and know he is on your side.

[Bluenorthwest]

159. Unless you are gay

And then you look into his eyes and see provencial and atavistic dogma and a set of Bush backing gay bashing surrogates reflected in his iris.
Just saying. If it is all about gut feelings of empathy, then Obama would be out of my considerations. Clearly Hillary is far more empathetic toward GLBT people than Obama, who has weak understandings that could only spring from a lifetime of avoiding 'those people' on his part.
I realize that is not important to you. But it is to me. Those who see only one vicious set of tactics in this race are cherry picking the facts and dismissing things they see as unimportant. I look into his eyes and I see a man filled with ambition and dogma. A man who says one thing about religious voters in SC and another in Penn. You see the boy crush of your dreams, I assume. Those who don't see the flaws in their own candidates are doing the fanclub crush thing, not the American citizen thing.

[Butch350]

115. Whinner

Whinner! It's your choice lady - you can't have your cake and eat it to.

[Evergreen Emerald]

153. I don't even know what the means? "have your cake and eat it to?"

What are you talking about?

[madrchsod]

116. you were raised in ghana?

our best friend is from ghana. fact we are working to get a sister city with his village.

[jillan]

118. You are one of my favorite DUers and I'm glad you're here.

I think that us Hillary supporters should start a thread about some of the comments that have been thrown at us....all in the name of HOPE.

:pals:

[kwenu]

119. Touching. Could you link us to these alleged insults because I recall a similar thread like this...

being posted some time ago. I'm afraid I've never seen language used like that here for no reason. It's terrible though if it happened.

[jackson_dem]

120. You are one of the best here

:thumbsup:

[GrandmaJones7]

121. Finally! THIS is the DU we need.

what a beautiful post! You GO girl! And we are all by your side headed into PA (lets hope it goes well!),

take care,

GJ

[Aussie leftie]

122. k & r

[AX10]

123. K & R

Join the club. It just isn't black women for Hillary, it's anyone who is for Hillary has been chastised by the netroots.

[madmom]

125. Welcome goldcanyonaz, it's nice to have another like minded DUer, for the newbies,

when the tension and insults get ratcheted up I just disappear for a few days, or stay out of the political forums, it helps some. Hopefully a lot of these transgressors are trolls trying to stir things up and will leave soon.

edit: I absolutely LOVE Arizona and hope to retire there, so much different than Ohio!

[goldcanyonaz]

131. Thanks! Just to tell you a secret.... It gets hotter than fuck here in the summer, 125 is the norm

[madmom]

134. I know I've been there a couple times, but the humidity here..you can't breath..not good!

[pettypace]

126. So you've latched on to Hillary because

she's a woman and so are you.

Enough said. None of us Obama people will try to change your mind.

[goldcanyonaz]

129. This coming from an Anyone but Clinton avatar person?

[JoFerret]

161. Hmm. Answer me this friend

They say 90% of african americans have "latched-on" to Obama and 95% of all evil people support McCain.
What do these statistics mean?

[Catherine Vincent]

128. Don't ever let anyone make you feel bad because of who you support.

Fuck e'm.

[OzarkDem]

130. Hang in there

Don't let them bully you. Their insults and taunts are nothing more than hot air.

[zulchzulu]

132. Well soon you will have Barack Obama as the nominee...so relax and have a great day!

PM me and I'll send you an Obama button and bumpersticker.

:hi:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

133. K & R.

Thank you, goldcanyonaz.

[goldcanyonaz]

135. Thank you!

[EFerrari]

136. I'm bookmarking this thread for the next time you attack someone.

for no reason.

If it quacks.

[TragedyandHope]

140. K & R for honest, thoughtful and civil disagreement

[Hawkeye-X]

141. Glad you're here too!

I respect a lot of reasonable Hillary Clinton supporters, and am glad to have you on my list. Maddy McCall should be very proud of you!

:hi: :hug:

My wife is a Clinton supporter so I guess I can't have everything!

Hawkeye-X

[FrenchieCat]

142. So you tell posters that you are Black, and they diss you and say

those things to you?

I would be interested in you PMing me, so that you can give me the names of those folks. I'm real curious because that shouldn't happen....and if you provide me with some links as backup, I'd like to have a word with some of those posters (via PM of course) especially if I know them. We don't have that many Black folks in this forum (well a few more now), and so I'd be interested.

Sorry to hear that you've had to experience that kind of pain.

[Jamastiene]

143. Stand your ground, goldcanyonaz.

You have every right to vote for who YOU feel is BEST for the job of President of the US. If someone else doesn't like it, that's their problem. We ALL have that right in this country and we ALL should vote for who WE feel is BEST. I don't care what color anyone is. It's about who we feel is best for the job. Period.

[JAbuchan08]

146. I respect your right to make that choice

but I can't respect the choice itself.

[MethuenProgressive]

148. I love your sig line, calling out 'democrat' Michelle Obama.

"I'd have to think about supporting Obama, his policies, his approach, his tone."
:thumbsup:

[OzarkDem]

150. I like your sig line, too!

:hi:

[Buzz Clik]

152. You are one of the big Clinton snarks on this board.

You have repeated pounded on my for my stands. Amazingly, I have attempted to engage you in real dialog, but I get crickets.

No sympathy from me.

[Evergreen Emerald]

154. I think you are wonderful

And I have been very disappointed in DU of late. I cannot even say "we" anymore, and I used to consider DU my home. But it has long since changed.

I am sorry about the ugliness you have experienced here.

[saltpoint]

156. So, I'm a white male who happens to support Barack Obama.

Seems to me the dissing goes in all directions in a political forum. I first joined this forum to discuss our fellow Democrats and have supported many Democrats over the period from roughly the 04 primaries to now and have arrived at a support for Obama currently. I've been called a lot of things here and elsewhere in the world and have developed a pretty thick skin. Generally I defend Democrats against Republicans and specific Democrats especially. I like some movies with Russell Crowe and the Dead's song, "Uncle John's Band."

I was raised in the Midwest but have lived all over, including both U.S. coasts, with time also in Costa Rica, Berlin, Amsterdam, London, and Montreal. In all those places, most book-readin' folks have no problem with women as leaders in either the public or private sectors, and don't have any problem with women as national leaders.

[JerseygirlCT]

164. I'm not calling you any names. I just disagree with you

That's what we have primaries for.

My beef is with the behavior of your candidate and her campaign staff, not with her supporters.

[pecwae]

165. Rec & kick

:thumbsup: goldcanyonaz

[Bolo Boffin]

166. No dissing here.

I support Obama, but Clinton will make a great president if she's our nominee.

[newmajority]

168. You're black? Who knew?

Last week you said you were Jewish. Not that it matters to me either way, and hey, Sammy Davis Jr. managed to pull it off, so why not?

Seriously though, as an Obama supporter, I would never consider referring to anyone as an "Uncle Tom" or "Jim Crowe" for supporting Hillary.

Delusional, perhaps. Hillbot, probably. :evilgrin:

But those other names have no place on a Democratic board. (unless they're used in a reference to Ken Blackwell or Clarence Thomas, perhaps)