For seven years we cried out for a "tough candidate". Now we can't handle it and we want her to quit

[CK_John]

I still want tough and hope it goes to the convention. The next 4 years are going to see $10 gas, no airline travel or airlines, food riots and bank failures. IMO, Hillary is the only one that is ready for the job.

[cliffordu]

1. Too bad she's just more of the same corrupt Washington.

[Kittycat]

5. Yep. We don't need another Liar in Cheif only looking out for themselves.

And just telling us what we want to hear, as the wind blows.

[JoFerret]

137. Thanks for kicking the thread.

with your irrelevant commentary.

[CK_John]

7. She is tough, ready and knows how to use Washington to get it done. n/t

[jwirr]

18. Get what done?

[JBoy]

40. She'll use anyone to get "it" done.

[walldude]

68. That may be true.. but the problem is Washington

knows how to use her as well. THey have no idea what to do with Obama. I'd rather have a candidate that the Washington elite fears than one they embrace.

[saltpoint]

72. She did a bang-up job on health care in the 90s.

[goclark]

113. You forgot the sarcasm ~ her health care plan got no where

[saltpoint]

118. Hi, goclark. I did forget to put in the sarcasm emoticon, but that's

what I meant.

Bill put her in charge and to this hour there is no comprehensive health care policy for the United States.

[goclark]

120. Old Crusoe ~ you are so right! I remember it clearly

They came into office and she was center stage with her Health Care plan.

It was front and center.
Then poof!

It got no where.

And now she is older and still pushing herself around and being bossy.

She is not inclusive unless you are doing it "Their Way"

[cliffordu]

76. If I wanted someone to "get 'er done" I'd call Larry the cable guy.

[NorthCarolina]

152. But Hillary is DLC and DLC=Republican

and we want CHANGE.

[JoFerret]

140. Too bad you are not in the real world

unlike candidates Obama and Clinton.

[sniffa]

2. Obama's too soft

All he's doing is fending off the Clinton machine.

[cliffordu]

77. Fock! That's perfect. And smiling while he does it.

[CatsDogsBabies]

3. I think Obama is a tougher candidate than HRC

just because he has a more reserved, less confrontational style, doesn't mean he's not tough.

[ginnyinWI]

39. amen

Just because she's loud, doesn't mean she has what it takes in a moment of crisis. Bush talks tough too--but is he really? No, he's stubborn and narrow-minded. I'm not saying Hillary is those things, but I'm just saying she's crafted a media image like Bush has. I want the guy who doesn't resort to hyperbole--who doesn't boast that we can wipe Iran off the map, for instance.

Going to war with a recently armed nuclear power? Sure--bring it on! :sarcasm:

[Skidmore]

61. Tougher and more astute and principled.

By a long shot. Just because you jump up and down and scream the loudest does not mean you are tough. Hillary supporters need only to look as far and Bush to understand where that mentality has gotten the nation.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

102. It's Gary Cooper (Obama) vs. John Wayne (Clinton).

Or Robert Mitchum vs. Edward G. Robinson.

[mmonk]

4. I prefer honest. Tough is in the eye of the beholder.

Obama's restraint against a fellow democrat shows toughness.

[Exilednight]

6. Who is we? I cried out for someone the opposite of Bush, not a Democrat just like him. n/t

[jasmine621]

144. Obama is more like Bush than Hillary. Folks have blinders on.

Obama is just smarter. But isn't he a uniter and not a divider? Wants to talk to everyone in the ME except Hamas. A healer, religious born again, addiction over-comer, greatly influenced by the pastor who converted him. Sounds a lot like Bush to me.

[goldcanyonaz]

8. She is the true fighter, and will NEVER back down.

[cali]

26. yeah. real tough. she keeps punching herself in the face.

she doesn't have the chops.

[goldcanyonaz]

36. In your oppinion. America does not agree. Obama can not close the deal.

Why is that? Oh, it has to be racism, right?

[cali]

44. lol he's closing it, dear. poor wittle hillykins. it's sexism

that's making the poor thing lose according to YOU and the endless whiny ass threads you post.

[goldcanyonaz]

47. Cali, I rarely post threads, you are your own personal echo chamber.

[cali]

71. whether in threads or posts that's been a constant refrain.

and you threw nasty out. don't whine when you get it back.

[dbmk]

45. So constantly, if slowly, increasing your backing

.. is "not closing the deal".

Then what does not moving you numbers at all for half a year, constitute?

[Exilednight]

46. If Hillary is so strong, then why can't she close the deal. She's getting beat by what many of ....

her supporters believe to be a nobody. If he's so weak, then why is she behind him?

[Telly Savalas]

131. Obama can't close the deal? Hillary had a gigantic lead going into this year.

She can't close the deal.

[otohara]

42. She Will Take Us Down

in her never-ending fight. The AA community will never trust the Clinton's again after this - they won't vote for her in 2012 if that's her plan.

[Armstead]

70. Like she continued to keep health care reform in the spotlight in the 90s?

After she and Bill botched healthcare reform early in their term, the issue disappeared.

Where was Hillary then? Why didn't they keep it on the front burner?

[whistler162]

103. Sun-Tzu disagrees with that idea.....

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sun-tzu/works/art-of-war/ch10.htm

"23. If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight, even though the ruler forbid it; if fighting will not result in victory, then you must not fight even at the ruler's bidding."

[RC]

107. And that is the problem. There indeed comes a time to quit when you are losing, or

'loosing' for you Hillarybots.

Hillary is wasting valuable resources against the Democrat side that would be better spent against McCain and the Fascists.

Hmmm, "McCain and the Fascists". That sounds like a new rock grope... errr, group.

[otohara]

9. We Did?

If that's true, why is the hope guy winning?

[nebula]

10. Don't confuse tough with dirty

we don't need another Bush wannabe.

[Barack_America]

11. Tough, smart and SANE. Hillary only brings toughness to the table...

"I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran".

That is a direct quote from Hillary Clinton. Does that sound smart or sane to you?

[flor de jasmim]

17. You nailed it! SANE

[helderheid]

20. Sane is good. I like sane.

[writes3000]

28. You said it better than I did. Thank you. n/t

[Barack_America]

95. Her obsession with toughness has sent intelligence and sanity packing.

This Iran quote is really beyond the pale.

Obama makes gaffes saying truths that are not politically popular.

Hillary makes gaffes saying foreign policy blunders that possibly affect our national security.

Hmm, which to choose, which to choose...this could be a tough one.

:think:

[CK_John]

30. The question was if Iran nuked first what would be our response. You know that and you pretend that

the statement came out of the blue.

[VolcanoJen]

43. The question was if Iran struck ISRAEL, not the US.

Big difference.

And it's not "sane" to obliterate millions of people and spread nuclear radioactivity throughout that region. And especially not if we have 150,000+ of our own soldiers sitting next door when Hillary Strangelove decides to show everyone how "tough" she is.

[graycem]

145. More than just Israel...

She included other countries in the Mideast as well. This morning on CNN one of her surrogates said she means "friendly countries" in the mideast, like, oh say, Saudi Arabia. Who called her comments "foolish." As they are.

The Saudi paper called Clinton's nuclear threat "the foreign politics of the madhouse," saying, "it demonstrates the same doltish ignorance that has distinguished Bush's foreign relations."

This is just one of the many articles about the reaction in the world community.

http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/


It is important for people to understand it is not even necessarily WHAT she said, but HOW she said it. Not smart.

[Barack_America]

50. Nuclear attack against the Mideast is an instance where one needs to chose their words carefully.

Things are taken out of context all the time. You don't think that terrorist groups are going to pull that quote out for their recruiting efforts?

And, considering the hornets nest that is the Mideast, I would expect every word to be qualified. But Hillary, no, she just throws shit out there without a second thought.

"Putin has no soul"
"The former Prime Minister of New Zealand" (+ tasteless, sexist joke that followed)
"If I'm President, we'll go to war with Iran"

Reckless, dangerous and just plain stupid things to say. At least Obama's gaffes have only threatened his candidacy. Hillary's gaffes threaten our foreign policy and, possibly, our safety.

[CK_John]

51. "All options are on the table", code speak for 60 yrs. n/t

[Barack_America]

60. Then it's a shame that she said she would "obliterate them" instead of "explore all options".

She just defined her foreign policy as a nuclear one. And the Middle East is none too happy about it.

Here's what the Arab News (from Saudia Arabia-no friend to Iran, I might add) had to say about it:

This is the foreign politics of the madhouse. It demonstrates the same doltish ignorance that has distinguished Bush’s foreign relations. It offers only violence where there should be negotiations and war where there could be peace. At a stroke, Clinton demonstrated to everyone in this region that if she were the next occupant of the White House, Iraq-like death and destruction would be the order of the day.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/04/iran-hillarys-t.html

[Avalux]

12. Being "tough" does not equal being nasty and vindictive.

Hillary is like a big bully, running around yelling about how tough she is and using GOP tactics to smear her opponent. Obama is the toughness we need; resolute and self-confident.

[Adelante]

13. She talks a lot about being tough nt

[Blue_Roses]

14. If she is so tough, then why hasn't she put forth legislation to investigate the

gas gouging BEFORE it's risen this high? She mentions California and how they were gouged by Enron a few years ago and how they should have been investigated.

I don't really think she's done much at all.

[cali]

15. hillary's not tough in the ways that we need to win

she's fucking losing, genius. she can't get out of her own way. hapless hilly. Obama is far more strategic and tough than hapless hilly could ever hope to be.

And it's very unlikely to go to the convention. tough shit.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Only if one confuses bullying + pandering with "tough".

AKA - triangulation.

[movonne]

19. The sooner the better...she is not a tough candidate she is a lying

candidate...there is a difference..

[jaxx]

21. Tough?

I just picked this up from another post...it's spot on.

“One of the things that I learned in the school yard was: the folks that are talking tough all the time, they’re not always that tough. If you’re really tough, you’re not always looking to try to start a fight. If you’re really tough, sometimes you just walk away. If you’re really tough, you just save it for when you really need it,” Obama said.

That's tough.

[writes3000]

22. I don't want a President who threatens nuclear war for political gain.

I don't want a President who regularly lies big for her or her own political advantage.

And most of all, I want a President who is mature and secure enough to admit their own mistakes - even when it means that some might consider that "weak".

I do not want another President with the temperament of George Bush Jr.

[VolcanoJen]

23. If she's so tough, why can't she beat Obama and win the nomination?

By your own definition, when Obama wins the nomination, he'll have done so by beating the toughest candidate out there. Doesn't that make him... tougher?

[kid a]

24. your confusing tough with stubborn selfishness - we've had that..for 7.5 years. nt

[LakeSamish706]

25. I'm sure the Obama supporters know this fact....

Very seldom (if ever) do you hear Obama using; "me or I" when he is talking, he uses "us and we" whereas Clinton generally uses "me or I". May be a small thing, but one I have noticed.

[ginnyinWI]

49. I noticed that early on, too

That's a leader--he will lead the nation, not "work for" the nation. That's a big difference.

[sendero]

27. We want her to be tough..

.. on REPUBLICANS. See how that works, ye of very little brain?

[writes3000]

31. The OP didn't call us names here. We shouldn't call them names. n/t

[sendero]

53. Alert me..

... I'm sick of idiots. Period.

[bowens43]

29. We didn't cry out

for a deceiving, cheating, lying, arrogant, unethical, power hungry candidate. We have a very strong candidate.
Obama will easily defeat MCCain despite the best efforts of hillary and her supporters to stop that from happening.

BTW , we don't want her to quit, we want her to admit that she lost.

[Kahuna]

32. She only fights for herself. When she could have fought for others she

stood down. No thanks.

[VolcanoJen]

37. ding ding ding

And that's the most infuriating part about her.

[graycem]

146. Amen!

Senator Byrd fighting against the invasion of Iraq is tough! She talks tough. MASSIVE difference.

[npincus]

33. Tough or scurrilous? And a big, giant liar to boot.

Were she so tough, she souldn't have invented snipers at Tuzla Airport.

[hisownpetard]

34. There are at least two kinds of 'tough': one is 'tough' as in 'able to withstand a lot of

wear and tear.' That would be Obama, with his cool and calm demeanor, inviting opinions from both sides of
any issue in order to ultimately come to a fair conclusion.

Then there's 'tough' as in 'This steak is so tough I can't chew it or swallow it. And I'd like my money back..."
Yeah - that sounds about right for Hillary, which has caused a lot of former Hillary supporters to decide that 'tough'
doesn't have to equal 'mean.'

[Connie_Corleone]

35. She's not tough. She only talks tough.

[Joe the Revelator]

38. Self Destructive is not "tough"

[ampad]

41. Tough?

Whatever, tough like Dubya. You can have your tough candidate but she isn't going to make it far. Tell you what though, too bad she wasn't tough when it came to fighting the Bush machine on this war, huh. Let us see here....... Tough to her Dem opponent by playing dirty and bitching every chance she gets opposed to tough to the bush machine who sent thousands to die in an unjust war for profit. Whatever, I love how you folks definition of tough. She didn't have the toughness to tell Bush to take his war and stuff it but she is tough because she if running a campaign like a Repig? Wow, I'm glad she is not my candidate.

[Captain Hilts]

48. Either of them is tougher than Gore and Kerry combined. Go team! nt

[dailykoff]

52. Yes, and what was she doing in the Senate those long seven years?

Capitulating to neocons does not constitute a record of toughness.

[Crunchy Frog]

54. Tough on the Republicans.

[Yael]

55. Sorry, but she isn't the one.

[Buzz Clik]

56. There are many aspects to being tough; delusional and divisive are not desirable.

[Armstead]

57. I want tough and smart and effective -- Not just tough and divisive

We've had eight years of tough and dumb in the White House.

We need someone who is tough in a "get things done" way. Not just tough for their own self-advancement.

[Colobo]

58. CK, you know Obama is what we were waiting for.

[Raven]

59. She's not tough, she's shrill. There is a big difference. n/t

[saltpoint]

62. You forgot pestilence and global contagion. And fire raining down from above.

"No airline travel" ? That doesn't sound right.

"No airlines" ? That doesn't sound right either.

Bank failures, maybe so, but we can likely withstand that with adequate prep and problem-solving.

Hillary is going to end food riots? That should be entertaining to watch. She can single-handedly feed the starving, in fact. She's always said she's good in the kitchen. She'll need to install a new sink, though. For some reason the old one's gone missing.

[CK_John]

64. With no oil and people with no money or jobs, how will there be any airlines? n/t

[saltpoint]

66. Look, my crystal ball's in the shop, but I think the airlines will still be

around.

8-track tapes, though, that's another story. They are on their way OUT. Mark my words.

[CK_John]

86. Eos Airlines Files for Bankruptcy, Plans to Shut Down Immediately

Source: WSJ

Eos Airlines Inc., a transatlantic, all-business-class airline, filed for bankruptcy protection over the weekend and said it will shut down Sunday, becoming the fourth U.S. carrier to go out of business this month.

Rising fuel prices, tight credit markets and the slowing economy are wreaking havoc on all U.S. carriers. But smaller, less well-funded companies are proving unable to withstand the challenges. Aloha AirGroup Inc., ATA Airlines Inc. and Skybus Airlines Inc. ceased operations earlier in April and Frontier Airlines Holdings Inc., filed for bankruptcy protection but continues to operate.

[saltpoint]

117. Ja, I read the news but corporate consolidation is not a recent

deveopment.

Any business will come under strain in hard times, here or anywhere else.

Smaller retail and grocery stores etc also go out of business for exactly the same reason, but there will continue to be small retial nad grocery stores through even a depression.

My hunch is that there will also be airlines and air flights.

[zulchzulu]

63. Thanks for stopping by, KKKarl...

Hillary is Snipergate. That means toast.

She is not "tough", she is bitter that she lost and she and her husband could care less about the Democratic Party.

SHE LOST. That's not "tough"... that's "through".

[Schema Thing]

65. We didn't mean "tough" as in "Republican-faux-tuff"

[donheld]

67. Dumbest post of the day

She's not fought Bush much at all.
She did not fight Gonzalez at all.
She did not fight the supreme court nominees
What the hell did she fight?

[BlueIdaho]

69. Not me.

I want a smart candidate able to move America forward and engage the world community. If we have to become republicans to compete with them I will find another party.

[tularetom]

73. She is not "tough" she's a moral coward

She did not have the guts to vote against a war she knew was a mistake.

She's still afraid to stand up against the failed war because people might think she's "weak".

She and bubba have spent the past few months kissing McCain's ass.

She's strictly a potemkin candidate - all facade with nothing inside.

WTF is she gonna do about all these woes you describe? Think she'll crack down on the corporate interests that have given her $100 MILLION over the past 5 years? Dream on.

Any of the other democratic candidates would have been "tougher' than she is - for sure Obama is.

And now she's put her foot in it so bad she will probably face a significant challenge to her senate seat in 2012.

[Raffi Ella]

74. Thanks for the post CK_John.

I will NEVER understand WHY D.U. hates Hillary, the toughest bitch on the block who will fight for us all.

She's exactly what we need.

[goldcanyonaz]

82. DAMN STRAIGHT! and, she will NEVER fold when counting the votes.

[kenny blankenship]

75. We said "tough" not PSYCHOTIC

You want it to go to the convention? Really you do? Is that your final answer?

THANK YOU! Thanks for revealing to the rest of us how demented and dangerous you are.

Contested nominations at conventions SPELL DEFEAT for whoever winds up with the nomination. You in your flaming neurosis think a contested convention is a vindication, the last best hope of the candidate who's "ready for the job"; but America looks at the party disunity onscreen and concludes No fucking way is that party ready to govern America!

By the way, Rush sends his thanks and regards.

[CK_John]

87. I voted for McGovern and don't want to do so again. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

134. Are you willing to destroy the Party for her ?

It's clear what you want - I'm asking you to realize that more than this year or the next four years are at stake. Much more.

[mdmc]

78. She is my Senator

I've never seen her be tough on the side of NY. Ever.

[Ichingcarpenter]

79. Hillary is Nasty But She is Not Tough

From Guy T. Saperstein


Hillary is a classic whiner. She and Bill whine about everything that doesn't go well for them. Unlike Harry Truman, who also said, "the buck stops here," she and Bill accept responsibility for nothing and blame others, especially the media, when things go wrong or their deceptions are exposed.ﾠ

Hillary and Bill whine about Democratic Party activists, young voters, running as a female, the media in general, the media catching her fabricating her history (bringing peace to Ireland, opposing NAFTA, facing sniper fire in Bosnia, etc.), the appeal of hope, Obama's eloquence, money, donors, Democratic Party rules. Last week, Hillary blamed the "activist base" of the Democratic Party -- and MoveOn, in particular -- for many of her electoral defeats, claiming, without a shred of evidence, that activists had "flooded" state caucuses and "intimidated" her supporters. Rather than accept responsibility for her campaign's well-documented failure adequately to plan for the caucus states, and despite her repeated claim she is the candidate "ready on Day One," she attacked core Democratic Party supporters. Rather than take responsibility for her inability to inspire the activist base with her ideas, she whined about their support of a more thoughtful, inspirational candidate. Candidates normally celebrate high levels of voter activism in the primaries, knowing these activists will work for the party's nominee in the general election, but Hillary is willing to burn the peasants in order to win the village for herself.

Hillary frequently whines about the media not being "fair." This is an old Clinton complaint, going back to her stone-walling about Travelgate, Whitewater and the revelations of Bill's many sexual shenanigans. How unfair of the press to remember that she supported NAFTA, falsely claimed to have been a key negotiator in peace talks in Ireland, and lied about her Bosnia trip.


Hillary whines about Obama's inspiration and eloquence. Hillary whines about the very nature of hope. Despite the Clintons' history of playing the Hope Card (we all remember Bill's 1992 campaign biopic, "The Man from Hope"), when the other guy is offering it, all of a sudden, hope is suspicious. In fact, it is downright delusional. "I could stand up here and say, let's get everyone together, let's get unified and the sky will open, the light will come down, celestial choirs will be singing, and the world will be perfect," she said in mock sarcasm of Obama's message of conciliation and hope.
ﾠ

Do we want a whiner to be President? Commander-in-Chief? Do we want to live through more chapters in the never-ending, but never-changing, Clinton Drama of Blame, Attack and Half-Truths? Or do we prefer a president who has demonstrated candor, who is willing to treat voters like adults, who takes responsibility for his behavior and offers thoughtful commentary on serious issues -- as Obama did with his former pastor? Do we want a president who behaves like a mature adult or someone whose emotional intelligence is on the level of a spoiled, whiny teenager?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/guy-t-saperstein/hillary-is-nasty-but-she_b_98719.html

[ruggerson]

91. 9/11 widows/widowers, police and firefighters would disagree with you

[Starbucks Anarchist]

80. She's only tough when it's herself on the line.

She sure as hell wasn't this tough on Iraq.

[cbayer]

81. This race is a dead heat because they are both tough.

I haven't seen two tougher candidates in a very long time. They are both up to the job,IMO.

[eallen]

83. No, sorry, I cried out for a candidate who would defend Constition and civil liberty...

Against the current assault on those.

What has Hillary said about investigating and prosecuting the members of Bush's Justice Department who put their stamp of approval on his torture policy?

:hippie:

[anonymous171]

84. If she had fought the Bush administration this hard she may have gotten my vote

[Milo_Bloom]

85. Clinton isn't a tough candidate, she is actually quite weak.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

88. Ready to what? Nuke Iran? nt

[pdxmom]

89. What makes her "tough"? Someone needs to define that term. Because

if it means that she sticks to something in the face of criticism and long odds, that is exactly what Bushco has been doing for the past 7 years. "Sticking it out" doesn't equate to tough, if it's not tempered with the good of the whole as opposed to trying to prove yourself right, regardless of who or what is hurt in the process.

[TheWraith]

90. A tough candidate doesn't squeal that the rules are unfair, or blame the media for losing.

Hillary is far from a tough candidate.

[dkf]

92. Unfortunately, she only fights when SHE is the one at risk.

Where was all this tough rhetoric against Bush for all these years? Where was all this fighting? I saw NONE.

And where was Bill? Sucking it up with Poppy Bush...DISGUST doesn't begin to describe how I feel over this "I'm a fighter" claptrap.

[sampsonblk]

93. We said TOUGH, not CROOKED

I want a candidate who is tough, strong advocate for our party's values and core beliefs. I never asked for a candidate who is solely a tough, strong advocate for herself and her own interests.

Hillary Clinton doesn't give a rat's ass about any party principles (IWR ring a bell?). She'd burn the whole party to the ground in order to secure a win for herself. She's made that clear.

[northzax]

151. Well thank god

we have a candidate who has consistently voted against the war. Voted against every funding bill, used the senate rule and committees to consistently oppose he war and its architects.

Oh wait, Chris Dodd dropped out? Oh, well at least Obama makes nice speeches about the war.

[monmouth]

94. Tough vs. obnoxious...two different things.. n/t

[cascadiance]

96. I want a tough candidate FOR US!! NOT for themselves!

BIG F'IN! DIFFERENCE! In some respects a tough candidate that fights for themselves and for their special interests cronies are WORSE than the wishy washy types that at some point in the future might be swayed over from the dark side to work for the people instead. They won't be leaders like others fighting FOR the people will be, but they will work OK when we DO have decent leaders working for us and NOT Korporate Amerika!

[GoldieAZ49]

97. It seems the party cannot handle "tough"

shortly after 9/11 I was talking to a friend, a lifelong dem from California, Joyce said she didn't expect to see another dem president in her lifetime because the dems just don't have the stomach for national security and that it would be the key issue for decades to come.

Hillary has stood against that charge, and her party will not support it.

I now think Joyce was right, she understands this party better than I do.

[cascadiance]

99. You're talking about one of Sibel Edmonds' dirty dozen...

... and I think Sibel understands the problems with our national security from THE PEOPLE'S PERSPECTIVE better than any of us here, including your friend!

We've had enough of the "tough minded fear tactics" of pols like Bush to make us scared of what we don't understand and one that continues to hide the facts from us and works more for special interests than the people!

Hillary Clinton is not what we need now!

[ClassWarrior]

98. For seven years we cried out for a non-insider candidate. Now we can't handle it...

...and we trash him like we're a Rape-Publican circle jerk on speed.

NGU.

[high density]

100. She's fighting for herself, not for us

That is the problem.

[krkaufman]

101. But how much of that "toughness" has been directed at the enemy ...?

... as opposed to friendly fire?

Hillary would be doing much better if she'd actually shown any of this ferocity during the last 7 years, directed at the Bush administration and the Republican regime rather than going along with them on one of the more damaging votes in the country's history.

[Kaleva]

104. Hillary isn't 'Rocky' tough

She is Joe Pesci in 'Goodfellas' tough.

[JustAnotherGen]

105. Actually

The tough guy got made fun of for being successful enough to afford $400 haircuts. He was talking about 'fighting' out of the gate yet all the Kumbayahers wanted their feel good candidates.

Now the Democratic Party has two feel good candidates to pick from and all of a sudden their longtime supporters (be it Clinton or Obama) want to invoke the word 'Fighter'.

Use anything - but don't use tough or fighter to describe what we've been left with.

Say she's steady and stands her ground - but she's just copying/lifting from Edwards.

[highprincipleswork]

106. I'd like strong over tough, especially when tough equals nasty.

I'm for Barack Obama because I he is plenty strong, just not ruthless in a selfish, ruthless, unprincipled way.

I abhor the divisive tactics of the Clinton campaign. I want a candidate that goes against the Republicans, not fellow Democrats. In my opinion, Barack Obama has done a much stronger version of this, although I wouldn't say he has been perfect for me either.

I believe that high principles do work and that they do win in the end. I'm betting on Barack.

[chascarrillo]

108. "Why do I always get the first question?"

Yeah, real tough.

[smoogatz]

109. I used to admire Hillary's "toughness."

Now she just seems desperate and a little bit megalomaniacal. For me, she's lost what credibility she had in the last few months.

[carpe diem]

110. tough enough to take down the republicans...

...not tough enough to stamp her feet until she destroys the Democratic Party because she doesn't get her way...

[burythehatchet]

111. for god sakes she is a coward. She is a spineless, yellow striped coward

slinging shit does not make one a fighter, it makes one a flinger of shit

[TheDonkey]

112. LOL, we want a candidate that will starnd up to rethugs not be a rethug herself

and bash other democrats and endorse the opposition.

[OnionPatch]

114. She's not tough in the way I want her to be.

I would have wanted her to be tough against the RW bullying us into a war. Instead I see her giving in and going along with the RW spin way too often. The flag-burning amendment comes to mind offhand. Oh, and she just bashed the party activists last week, didn't she? How tough of her to attack the people who do the most work for her party but cozy up to someone like Richard Mellon Scaife. Sorry, she's not tough in the ways I need and want her to be tough. It seems to me that she's only tough when it comes to her own ambitions.

[Cheap_Trick]

115. tough, yes

but I want a Democratic nominee who ACTS like a Democrat.

[CTLawGuy]

116. I don't want "tough"

I want "willing to do the right thing". Hillary is not that.

[thoughtcrime1984]

119. Tough as in ruining the Democratic Party?

Or tough as in chumming up to Bush/Cheney, and letting them walk all over her. She won't win. Tough.

[ileus]

121. Clinton for Change....that's all there is to say. nt

[karynnj]

122. You have a strange definition of tough

Let's do a comparison:
In HRC, we have a candidate, who has overreacted each time things looked even slightly bad for her. She was the inevitable nominee with a double digit lead when she and Bill called the normal criticism she got at the first Philly debate - swiftboating. It was not swiftboating. Bill Clinton was far less outraged when John Kerry was hit by millions of dollars backing lies than when his wife was said to have changed her answer --- because we all saw her do it. Kerry's own response was dignified and a clear cut, fact based denial of their charges before the Firefighters. He continued to run his campaign without letting the lies take over the campaign.

HRC has been near tears at least twice - because she was losing. Kerry never acted like that - ever. HRC and WJC have both showed a negative side where they are threatening people not behind them - Kerry never did that.

Then consider, HRC spoke at least 4 times of being under sniper fire in Bosnia. In 2004, Kerry NEVER spoke of being under sniper fire - the closest he got was to state that he still has shrapnel in his leg - if it weren't for the SBVT, he likely wouldn't have said that.
Now WJC supposedly thought Kerry, with a bronze star and a silver star spoke too much about Vietnam - yet, he defends HRC's flight of fancy that she was in danger.

Strength is NOT becoming like Karl Rove, strength is knowing that that is wrong and that we are better than that.

[sueragingroz]

123. AMEN /nt

[JoFerret]

124. We rent our clothing and wrung our hands

when Gore got rolled and Kerry got steamrolled.

Now so many are dancing because we have another rollee in Obama.

[uponit7771]

125. Against McSame I have no doubt he'll be "tough" but I'd rather have smart an live vs tough & stupid

[JoFerret]

128. Obama is a brilliant man

Clinton is a brilliant woman.

Please make a note.

[Vinca]

126. She might be a tough candidate, but what is her motive for running?

Why is she so tough? I don't think it's got a thing to do with the American people. The Clintons love power and the trappings of power. If she really cared about people who are hurting, she wouldn't be promising her healthcare reform by the end of her second term. What a convenient campaign issue that would be in 2012. "Keep me in office so I can provide universal healthcare." Right.

[Ysabel]

127. there's a difference between tough and being a war-mongering brute...

- if that's not clear yes i'm calling hillary a brute (and as someone else mentioned above i agree she's a shit-slinging coward she is not tough)...

[depakid]

129. Seems to me we wanted a tough PROGRESSIVE candidate

Not triangulation...

[Raine]

130. She continually whines and plays the victim

that's not being "tough".

[WeDidIt]

132. I don't want a candidate who acts like a REpublican

She uses REpublican tactics to fight.

To heck with that.

If she somehow steals the nomination, I'll vote for her, but nothing else. I would love nothing more than to donate to the DNC right now, but I cannot so long as any possibility whatsoever that she will be the nominee remains.

[Bread and Circus]

133. Tough, as in in fight for what's right. When has Clinton fought for anything other than herself?

And how is campaigning like a Republican tough? Despicable would be a better term.

[blm]

135. Where was she and her 'tough' act the last 7 years? Sabotaging OTHER Democrats for BushInc.

You want her rewarded? So does BushInc.

[MethuenProgressive]

136. Only the Fraidy-cats want her to quit.

[MrSlayer]

138. Rovian tactics do not equal toughness.

They equal cowardice and projection.

[eridani]

139. She's tough on Dems and soft on Rethugs

No Dem who uses Rethug framing all the time can get elected.

[Unbowed]

141. Tough? Lying and low-ball tactics are not tough. Neither is desperation. n/t

[graycem]

142. Tough doesn't mean talking tough...

I have been praying for a SMART and DIPLOMATIC President. If your only tool is a hammer, everything becomes a nail.


Exhibit A: President Bush - "Bring it on!" Tough? Hardly. Stupid? Most definitely.

[Perry Logan]

143. Logan's Law: anything a Clintophobe says about a Clinton is a lie.

There is clearly a screw loose with the anti-Clinton people--the "Clintophobes" who infest our fine forum. When they start talking about the Clintons, their heads practically spin around. You are a fool to believe a single word they say--at least until you change the subject.

A short time at DU will verify this sad MO: Clinton-bashers make false accusations about the Clintons, believe them, then repeat them endlessly. I don't know how they can do this, but they do.

They put all the debunkings and disproofs on ignore, and read only the responses of people who share their affliction. How clever is that?

In this way they create a political Bizarro World in which the Clintons are the bad guys. It creeps out DUers all the time:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5120659

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4779500&mesg_id=4779500

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4849238&mesg_id=4849238

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4922044&mesg_id=4922044

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4942967&mesg_id=4942967

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4964704&mesg_id=4964704

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4965088

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4965227

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4982708&mesg_id=4982708

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5036756

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5065868&mesg_id=5065868

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5156352&mesg_id=5156412

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5165104&mesg_id=5165104

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5180133&mesg_id=5181094

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5195072&mesg_id=5195072

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5204441&mesg_id=5204441

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5214352&mesg_id=5214352

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5226313&mesg_id=5226313

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5235825&mesg_id=5235825

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5304883

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5349292&mesg_id=5349292

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5392998&mesg_id=5392998

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5431535&mesg_id=5431535

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5431076&mesg_id=5431076

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5502064&mesg_id=5502064

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5571092&mesg_id=5571092

[my3boyz]

147. She is a lying, calculating witch! It would be a disgrace

to all women to have her as the first female president. There are many more women that could be commander-in-chief and make us proud!

[OzarkDem]

148. Agree, and we decried political leaders who waffled and dodged

and used spin instead of substance to discuss critical issues and their polices.

Some folks have really lowered the bar to support DU while turning Hillary into a punching bag.

[ShortnFiery]

149. HRC's not tough, she's had it handed to her ... she's a shameless bully.

I hope she loses her Senate Seat in addition to The Democratic Nomination.

Her bile filled speeches make HRC most worthy to lose it all.

[bklyncowgirl]

150. I would like to see a candidate who's tough against the Republicans

Not one who's joining in with them to destroy another Democrat.

All Democrats are very good at the circular firing squad but when it comes to standing up to the bully tactics of the GOP they quiver and quake like scared little puppies.

[shayes51]

153. Go Hillary!

Thanks for your post!

[JAbuchan08]

154. It's all well and good to have a tough candidate - if they fight for the right things

we had a tough as nails candidate in Howard Dean, but he got kneecapped by the same establishment that wants Hillary so desperately.

[smiley_glad_hands]

155. Triangulation is capitulation. How is that tough? eom