Lieberman on CNN Badly Undermines Kerry Position. Time to Pull the Plug

[WiseMen]

It time for the DNC to ask Joe to stop putting himself forward as a
party leader on the national networks if he can't support Kerry positions.

Lieberman basically calls on all to support the Bush position.
It was disgusting and destructive to campaign. Enough is enough.

Lieberman criticized Kerry's vote against the 87 Billion and
could not even give a spirited critique of Bush's
disasterous foreign policy posture that has alienated the rest of
the globe.

Kerry's votes are quite understandable: He supported presidential
war authority, conditionally and with warnings and caveats; then
he criticized Bush's deceptive and disastrous use of that
authority and refused to give another blank check against the deficit.

But Lieberman just sucks up to corporate media by saying "he doesn't
understand" Kerry's vote.

I am beginning to wonder how much harm Lieberman did to the Gore
campaign by pushing it to the "middle." Would Gore have lost if he
had chosen Kerry as his V.P. ????

[Pachamama]

1. Zell Miller & Joe Lieberman should change parties...

They are better spokesmen for the Repukes.... :puke:

[George_Bonanza]

2. Disown Lieberman and Miller

Though Miller makes Lieberman look like Nader.

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. Miller should be thrown out of the Democratic Party Senate caucus

It's a symbolic move anyway. The Repubs already have the votes to keep their guy as Majority leader, and Miller is a lame duck already.

Lieberman should be politely, but pointedly, disavowed on this issue, saying his views do not represent the Democratic Ticket or the majority of Democrats, though we respect his right to disagree and applaud the many fine Democratic stands that he has taken in other areas blah blah blah.

[otohara]

9. Interesting Biden & He Didn't Interview Together

he doesn't caucus with the dems anymore - so why should they bother being nicey nice to this turncoat

[cyclezealot]

13. I assume you mean Miller does not caucus with Dems.?

[otohara]

14. Si

I called his office one day and asked...

[flpoljunkie]

3. Lieberman neglected to say Bush has moved to Kerry's positions on Iraq...

Saying they have similar positions is not good enough. I hope he will do a better job of supporting Kerry in the future.

[AngryLizard]

5. We're talking about the man

Who ran a Senate campaign while running for vice-president, just in case it didn't work out. He has no sense of loyalty. He's a horrible advocate for the democratic party, which is probably why CNN is always putting him on camera. I remember during the convention, some Winger has playing the "voted against the 87 billion" card, and Lieberman just sat there nodding.

Someone in the campaign needs to pull the plug on him. Soon and fast.

[Raya]

4. Lieberman was a horrible choice for Gore. His moralizing made

it impossible for Gore to do the right thing in running on
the Clinton/Gore achievements.

[flaminbats]

43. either Kerry or Edwards would of been better than holy Joe...

Edwards would have helped Gore in Florida and the border states, and Kerry could have won swing voters for Gore in New Hampshire.

Lieberman not only helped Gore lose key votes to Nader, but putting him on the ticket in 2000 has now made him more of a danger to Kerry!

[LiberalVoice]

7. Lieberman was trash, is trash, will always be trash.

His undying support for Israel is enough to make me sick. :puke:

[Jim Sagle]

19. His support for Israel RAWWWWWWWWWKSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

But just about everything else about him SUXXXXXXXXXXX!!!!!!!!

(And that includes the Iraq war.)

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demwing]

21. How Can You Say Be Against An Entire Country?

And at the same time acknowledge that there are at least portions of that country's population that are innocent?

How can you make sweeping statements that toss all support for Isreal into a nice little package of your design? Is it just more simple for you to understand when presented that way? You understand that being simplistic and being factual are not the same thing, don't you?

How can you seriously believe that what you say can not be disputed, especially when what you have said is simply your own opinion?

And how can you expect to be taken seriouly with a "Fuck Isreal" foreign policy?

[nickinSTL]

26. don't know about the poster

you're replying to...

For me, I'm not against the Israeli people, or the Palestinian people, but the policies of the Israeli government.

The problems in the Middle East have no simple solution, but the US constantly supporting the Israeli government regardless of what they do, isn't helpful.

[REVOLT823]

53. Absolutely right nickinSTL,

as long as the Israeli government maintains its current policies against the Palestinians, and we continue to support them, nothing will change in the Middle East. 3,000 people did not die in NYC because they "hate our freedom", they died because we support the terrorizing of Palestinians.

[LiberalVoice]

28. I', sorry I should hav ebeen more specific.

When I said Fuck Isreal I meant the govt. specifically Sharon's Likud faction.

And as for my "undisputed" comment...What I meant to say was that IMHO I believe that the Israeli govt. is a totalitarian regime hell bent on keeping the palestinians as second class citizens or even better yet as animals.

Whether you take me seriously is hardly my worry. All I'm saying is that in my eyes supporting Israel and being against Bush doesn't mke sense from a logical stand point.

[Jim Sagle]

29. It makes perfect sense to me.

[JohnLocke]

8. I have lost all respect for Lieberman.

He's a Bush enabler.

[Cocoa]

10. Lieberman became irrelevant long ago

his primary campaign was painful to watch, what a huge relief it was when he dropped out.

Seeing him on TV now, it's kind of spooky, it's like Bruce Willis in "The Sixth Sense."

[salin]

11. Wonder where are token Lieberman defenders are..

who consistently tell us that it is WE not Lieberman who have the problem... that Lieberman is a good democrat... that our dislike of him must be something dark rather than legitimate?

The funny thing about Lieberman is that he honestly thought that HE was the dem frontrunner. That it was his right to walk to the nomination. He decried that the failure of Gore was due to his populism in his speeches, if he had just played it safe... and to the center (right)... they would have (according to mr joementum) won.

Joe, more than anyone you should know that give the rw a little fodder and they will denigrate you 100 times over. Yet you give them fodder to use to demean Kerry (or try to)? Geeeeeeeez.

[graywarrior]

12. He won't accept email from outside Connecticut

His website claims he receives so many emails (hate ones?) he can only accept them from people from Connecticut. How many people live in Connecticut, fer crissakes? Hope he gets voted out.

[JohnLocke]

17. I used to be one of those people. Not anymore.

[Bullshot]

15. I'll say it again.

Hey Lieberman. Go find your friend Alf and GO HOME!!!

Parasites like him will get more air play than Kerry and Edwards themselves because the media look for people like Lieberman who bash people in the Democratic party. It makes it sound like the party is in disarray.

If Lieberman is going to speak and act like a Republican, then he may as well switch parties.

[zulchzulu]

16. I never liked Loserman and wonder why Gore chose him for VP anyway

Good riddance, Joe. You suck. Go away.

[dolstein]

34. If you paid any attention to the 2000 election, you'd already know why

NT

[fujiyama]

18. This is the

umpteenth time he's undermined the campaign.

[Leilani]

39. He made his points yesterday

& they are STILL be used today by talking heads to put down Dean & Kerry.

Kerry blew it when he gave him a prime time spot on Thurs nite. That makes him more credible to some.

[Cha]

46. I was really disappointed when I saw lieman's schedule on

Thursday night...he should have been put on Wednesday at 4:30!

[Claire Beth]

22. yeah, I saw that and it sucked....

SHUTUP JOE LIEBERMAN. :kick:

[IndianaGreen]

23. I am more worried about Lieberman's neocon connections (Present Danger)

Lieberman has joined the neocons in revitalizing the old McCarthyist Committee for the Present Danger. Opposition to the phony Endless War on Terror will be treated as treason!

Here it from Holy Joe himself:

The Present Danger

By Joe Lieberman and Jon Kyl
Tuesday, July 20, 2004; Page A17

The successful handover of sovereignty to the Iraqi people last month offers fresh hope for stability and democracy in their country, but it could also mark a turning of the tide in the world war against terrorism. While the deposed tyrant and terrorist Saddam Hussein stands trial, the people of the great Muslim country he suppressed for so long are now standing proud and free, and taking control of their own destiny. And they are showing strong support for their new leadership and new optimism about their democratic future. According to a BBC/Oxford Research International poll released this month, 55 percent of Iraqis believe their lives today are quite good or very good, 56 percent believe their lives will get better in the next year, and 70 percent believe Iraq needs democracy.

<snip>

The liberation of Iraq has important implications for the region and for the broader war on terrorism. The leaders of the Democratic and Republican parties have so far stood firm in their commitment to finish the job in Iraq and to fight to victory the war on terrorism. But that bipartisan consensus is coming under growing public pressure and could fray in the months ahead. Although the tide is turning in the war on terrorism, a political undertow in this country could wash out our recent gains. We must not let this happen.

To make sure it doesn't, we are relaunching today the Committee on the Present Danger, a group of citizens of diverse political persuasions who will work to sustain and strengthen bipartisan support for the war on terrorism in Iraq and beyond.

The Committee on the Present Danger was first formed at the dawn of the Cold War in 1950 to educate Americans about the growing threat of Soviet communism. Democratic senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson of Washington state revitalized the group in the mid-'70s; this time it was focused on working for a stronger stance toward the Soviets and the increased defense spending necessary to carry out that policy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63067-2004Jul19.html

[lewiston]

24. Hey

Joe Lieberman is the bravest, kindest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

[IndianaGreen]

25. I see that you share a passion for the Queen of Diamonds

I haven't seen the remake of the Manchurian Candidate, but Holy Joe is "the bravest, kindest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."

[wuushew]

35. Complete horse poo

Go back into the mists of history and re-read the "kind" words that Senator Lieberman had to say of President Clinton. Aiding in that expensive witch hunt did not help in any way the Democratic cause.

[dolstein]

27. Here's the transcript -- what's all the fuss about?

This is what Lieberman had to say about Kerry:

<<BLITZER: Is that the fundamental difference, Senator Lieberman?

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: I don't think so. As a matter of fact, I thought one of the strong lines in John Kerry's speech on Thursday night was where he said that he's not going to give any other country or institution -- I assumed he meant the United Nations -- a veto over decisions that he would make to protect our security.

. . .

BLITZER: But why do you think that John Kerry would be able to get the job done in Iraq better than President Bush?

LIEBERMAN: Look, for me, I mean -- I'm supporting John Kerry for a lot of reasons. I think he'd conduct a more effective foreign policy overall, and, of course, I strongly support Senator Kerry's positions on health-care reform for Americans, job protection, retirement security and environmental protection.

BLITZER: So Iraq is not necessarily one of the issues?

LIEBERMAN: I think that -- and, for me, this is encouraging news. I know that Kerry and Edwards have disagreed at different times with President Bush on how he's carried out the war, but I think now everybody's in pretty much the same position.

And, to me, that's encouraging. Let's finish the job. We've got to finish the job. We cannot precipitously withdraw.

BLITZER: All right. I want, Senator Lieberman, your reaction, the Republicans making a big deal out of the fact that Edwards and Kerry voted against the $87 billion funding, including support for the troops, body armor and medical equipment and all sorts of other equipment needed by the troops. They're making a big deal out of this.

You voted in favor of that $87 billion. Did your two Democratic colleagues make a mistake?

LIEBERMAN: Wolf, I voted in favor of it. I thought it was the right vote. They've explained, just a few moments ago on your show, why they cast that vote.

Again, I want to come back to this, and I've been appealing to people to focus on today and tomorrow. What's your policy in Iraq today and tomorrow? And I don't see much difference between President Bush's policies and Senator Kerry's policies or intentions to carry out policies in Iraq. They both understand we've got to finish the job. They both understand it's critically important to stability in the Middle East. And, look, we got rid of murderous tyrannies in Afghanistan and in Iraq, that people have a real chance in both of those countries to governor themselves.>>

**************

Now I realize that any thread with Lieberman in the title draws all the Lieberman haters out of the woodwork. They claim to despise Lieberman for his hawkish position on Iraq, but, strangely enough, they never seem to criticize any of the other Democratic hawks on Capitol Hill, and certainly with nowhere near the same intensity.

It seems to me that, judging from the transcript, Lieberman goes out of his way to avoid criticizing the Kerry/Edwards ticket. Sure, Lieberman said he thought he voted the right way on the $87 billion, implying that Kerry, who voted differently, voted the wrong way. But so did Biden on Meet the Press. Big deal.

People need to get over the fact that Lieberman's not going to change his position on Iraq. But he's still actively supporting the Kerry ticket, and in fact, what he appears to be doing is reassuring hawkish Democrats and independents out there that Kerry isn't going to cut and run in Iraq. And the fact is, there's a lot of truth in what Lieberman is saying. After all, Kerry doesn't support an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Perhaps Kucinich does, but in case you weren't paying attention last week, Kerry's the party's nominee.

It seems to me that the people who are attacking Lieberman are really just angry at the fact that Kerry has yet you embrace their pacifist, withdraw-at-all-costs philosophy. But it's just so much easier from them to scapegoat Lieberman that it is to say what they're really thinking.

[sangh0]

30. Another stupid claim

bites the dust

[Leilani]

40. That transcript does not include what I found bothersome

When Dean criticized the Terror Alert, Lieberman said that was outrageous.

Keith Olbermann, tonite on Countdown, raised serious questions about the political motivations of terror alerts, & keeping people afraid.

Olbermann said he had a source at a targeted bldg in D.C., that pretty much discredited the alert, & that it was all political.

When journalists are suspicious of Bush, & reporting their doubts, it does not help to have Lieberman out there bolstering the White House.

[bbmykel]

33. I am not a huge fan of Lieberman

... but the transcript posted above surely does not warrant the hysterical condemnations in this thread. It looks like Joe did his best to not criticize Kerry/Edwards. What more could one ask for?

[Cha]

47. And why the fuck should he "criticize Kerry/Edwards?

We're all suppose to be against bush NOW!

And it turns out Dean was right, again!

[coeur_de_lion]

31. Somebody needs to tell Joe that the primary is over n/t

[dolstein]

32. I think he already knows it -- do you?

I posted the transcript. I don't see anything in there that would justify the kind of criticism Lieberman seems to be getting. But then again, what else is knew? Lieberman seems to be everyone's favorite scapegoat. People blame Lieberman for Gore's defeat, even though Lieberman received very favorable press coverage and Gore's biggest bounce in the polls coincided with his selection of Lieberman. People repeatedly trash Lieberman for his debate perforance, yet conveniently ignore the fact that Gore's own debate performance became the subject of nationale ridicule.

Now there will no doubt be a few people around here who say that their beef with Lieberman is relatedly solely to his position on the Iraq war. But the truth is, Lieberman was incredibly unpopular around here long before the war -- hell, long before 9/11.

The truth is that while Lieberman is among the most hawkish Democrats on Iraq, he is by no means the only hawk, even though he is the one who keeps getting singled out. I'd say he's gotten at least 10 times as much criticism as Gephardt, who was just as outspoken in his support of the war as Lieberman was.

And despite the rather curious attempt by DU'ers to link Lieberman to Zell Miller, Lieberman is supporting the Kerry ticket, whereas Miller is supporting Bush. Apparently, some people are so consumed by their irrational hatred of Lieberman that they've failed to notice this.

[Leilani]

41. Please see my post #40

about Lieberman & political motivations of Terror Alerts.

That is what bothered me about Lieberman.

I was a Clark supporter during the primaries, & I am mad at Lieberman about the campaign he used against Clark...it was nasty.

The other reason I do not like Joe, is how he tried to morph himself into John McCain in New Hampshire. Love or hate McCain, but Joe is NO John McCain. That was a pathetic attempt to tie himself to McCain s huge success in 2000 in New Hampshire.

Joe is a huge war hawk, as long as OTHER people go to war. McCain & Clark can talk whatever war talk they want, because they have walked the walk.

[sangh0]

36. Another hit and run

by WiseMen

[Sensitivity]

42. I was angry at many WiseMen posts. But he always turned out to be wise to

what was going on. That's my 2 cents.

[David Zephyr]

37. "Jealous Joe" Lieberman Will Continue to Undermine Kerry.

Just as he did Al Gore.

Nothing will stop him. He's just a pathetic old man riddled with jealousy.

He's as bad or worse than Zel Miller. Same emotional dynamic.

Lieberman: "...this is encouraging news. I know that Kerry and Edwards have disagreed at different times with President Bush on how he's carried out the war, but I think now everybody's in pretty much the same position."

[Cha]

48. Yeah, like fucking bush would be someone great to "agree"

with! Geez joe!

[ProfLefty]

38. Lieberman=turncoat

Have to agree with you Wise Men, Lieberman has consistently been off-message. Without coming right out and saying it he has lately been steadfastly supporting Bushie and the rw. Its time for the dnc to minimize or eliminate Lieberman's status as an official representative of Our party.

[Cha]

49. And how can they do that if cnn, msrnc, & fauxsux keep

inviting him on?

[gasperc]

44. he fucked us on the recount, man what a fuck head!!!

shut up Joe!!!! No wonder Gore didn't endorse him!!!

Picking Lieberman was Gore's blunder, he fell into Rove's trap of thinking Clinton's indiscretions were the only thing on people's minds!!!

[Cha]

50. And he's been "in rove's trap" ever since!

joe is a pious war monger.

[Cha]

45. Why the fuck did they let him speak at the convention?

lieman's was the only one I muted ..I wonder why?

[Skip Intro]

51. They let all the former candidates for the nomination speak

And I took care of some things around the house while he was on.

I lost all respect for him yesterday.

Btw, zidzi, its nice seeing you back on DU. Just thought I'd say that. :D

[Cha]

52. Thank you, nu_duer!

Yeah, I know they had to let him speak but to give him prime time?

And maybe there is a method in this madness but I don't think so..I think it's just joe being joe(scewing us over again) and I was hoping I'd heard the last of him.}(