Swift Boat ads - they didn't "backfire" when they ran them against McCain

[Democat]

They worked.

Let's not fool ourselves.

Unless Kerry does something very specific and effective to fight this, these ads will hurt Kerry, not Bush.

Look what these same criminals did to McCain in the primaries.

Don't buy the bullshit line that Americans don't respond to negative ads - they always have and probably always will.

[DaveFL99]

1. Nice guys finish last

[Xipe Totec]

15. Nice Guys Don't Always Finish Last

John McCain came out and blasted the Ads, and some conservative leaning websites have reacted by retracting their postings.

One such Website, which I monitor on a regular basis, is the Election Projections site 2004, which just posted a 'conditional retraction':

"If you have been a reader of this site for long, you know that I am interested in the truth above all else when it comes to the content of this site. I painstakingly strive to espouse only that which I believe is the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts; sometimes it is ugly. Sometimes it even means calling into question the military service of a decorated Viet Nam veteran such as Senator Kerry.

Sometimes, however, it also means retracting a post when enough doubt is cast on the veracity of the information contained in it. I do not condemn the Swift Boat Veterans and their anti-Kerry ad as Senator John McCain does, but, in response to McCain's statements and other feedback I've received from readers, I do feel compelled to remove my earlier post affirming them. Consider it a conditional retraction because if more comes to my attention concerning their activities, whether positive or negative, I will respond accordingly."

This is a lot more than we could expect from the likes of Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and the rest of the Republican Noise Machine.

Anyway, If you want to see an election projection from the other side of the fence, here is the website:

http://www.electionprojection.com/elections2004.html

Amazingly, the guy has been projecting a Kerry win for the past six months or more, even though it galls him no end. He is still a Rabid Right-Wing Republican Supporter, but at least the posted election projection numbers seem to be honest at the moment.

And he did pay attention to McCain when the Senator came out against the add.

[salinen]

16. Thanks Xipe

and welcome.

[WiseMen]

2. Sad but TRUE. Slime sticks better that pure spring water.

[lancdem]

3. I think the counterattack has begun

McCain's statement today has already put the WH on the defensive, forcing them to pretend to repudiate the ad. Kerry is not Michael Dukakis. I'm sure his campaign knew this was coming.

[Imalittleteapot]

4. Look for the Kerry camp to slam them on this one.

Not doing so would be a big mistake and they surely know it and will respond.

[salinen]

5. McCain

came to the rescue. Sometimes he wears a red cape, sometimes a white hood.

[formernaderite]

28. I don't believe McCain was coming to the rescue....

....I think he set this up so that the Bushies could "agree" with him, and then they added the lame statement that all the independant group ads should be repudiated and Kerry should join them. I'm no McCain fan, regardless of his "independant" leanings, he's a conservative through and through.

[ClintonTyree]

6. Most of the people..........

never found out about the lies until it was too late. The DNC is all over this like stink on shit and the press is ACTUALLY REPORTING IT!
I think it will bite the Cons in the ass before it's all over.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. I agree..McCain had to count on the media in SC to correct it and they

didn't...how many states is this ad playing in?

[DaveFL99]

21. That's the problem

it becomes national now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. Right but the news IS correcting it

[Proud2BAmurkin]

8. McCain didn't have "a McCain" denouncing them

And Bush hadn't fucked up the world the way he has now

[Connie_Corleone]

9. The Boston Globe Political Columnist on Franken's show said

That whenever an opponent attacked Kerry's war record, Kerry always won. And it was mostly due to his "band of brothers". They don't take no shit from anyone and they fight back.

I think Kerry's campaign will crush these swiftboat vets.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

12. Yup that's already been proven once in this campaign

Kerry's numbers went up the first time the Swift Boat Scumbags attacked. The idiots just can't help themselves.

[RamboLiberal]

10. They were more stealth with McCain

After the huge beating he put on the "Selected One" in NH they did their dirty deed in South Carolina with phone push polling slyly putting out the dirt on McCain. Get the book or DVD Bush's Brain - it's about that bastard Karl Rove and how he got * in Texas to beat Richards and how he screwed McCain to get * the Repug nomination.

[olddem43]

11. A WH spokesman said they do not question Kerry's service

[DaveinMD]

13. in New Hampshire

that year the attacks came in the form of push polls and no one stood up for McCain. This time, McCain is standing up for Kerry. The fact that a respected person of another party, who is backing another candidate, is standing up for Kerry makes a huge difference.

[WiseMen]

14. B.S. Almost everything they do is fraudulent and manipulative. Should we

now believe a repeat of the "WE KNOW NOTHING" dodge they used when the
same hit squad acted on their orders to assasinate John McCain's
presidential campaign??????

[bucknaked]

17. Also, the attacks against McCain were also during the R's primaries...

...these bogus attacks are occuring against a DNC-nominated Presidential candidate, who now has an entire party behind him. Unlike McCain's unfortunate run-in with this same type of crowd, Kerry has his entire (respective) party behind him (many of whom, are Vets), and more importantly, people who've actually served under him, people who were there, disputing these outright lies!

[snippy]

18. Kerry surrogates need to connect the ads to Bush.

These ads are an example of how Bush always campaigns. He needs to be forced to comment on the ads.

Another thing to remember is that when Bush lied about McCain's service, it was during a republican primary. Nothing appeals to republicans like hate filled lies. That is why Bush spread the rumor that McCain had a "black" daughter.

[Beetwasher]

19. No WAY! TOTALLY DIFFERENT AUDIENCE!!! Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong

No dis, but you're totally wrong! They accomplished the campaign against McCain in ONE SOUTHERN STATE and only needed to convince REPUBLICANS!!! It's TOTALLY different! Also, he no longer has the credibility to pull this off. No one believes him anymore, according the almost EVERY poll, Kerry is AHEAD in the credibility dept. This shit don't fly when you no longer have ANY credibility.

They will LOSE ALL THE MODERATE SWING VOTERS with this negative bullshit.

This could spell DOOM for the Bush campaign.

I LOVE THESE ADS!!!!

[Democat]

27. I want to be wrong on this one, but if it works in the "swing states"

Isn't that enough?

If someone still supports Bush after all we've seen, I find it very hard to believe that they are going to change their vote because someone on the right goes after Kerry like this.

On the other hand, I don't find it hard to believe that a certain number of people who are on the fence in the middle of the country will see this and it will reinforce what the media has been telling them - Kerry is a liar and a flip flopper and now he's lying about Vietnam.

I do not think this is going to "backfire" on its own. I think it's possible for Kerry's people to turn it around, but they better have a perfect plan and execute it quickly.

Isn't this the month that Kerry said his campaign will be completely dark on ads? If we wait 30 days to respond, that will be far too late.

[Beetwasher]

42. It's Already Backfired

Even Fox News commentators are denouncing and the WH is distancing itself from the ad. It's a disaster for them...Have you seen it? It's and obvious and horrendous hit piece. The only people who might believe it are Bush's insane base. Moderates and swing voters are notorious for their disgust of this type of negative smear job.

[wurzel]

20. They worked against Southern Republicans. Need we say more? n/t

[DaveFL99]

22. Christ I really hope you guys are right

[The Hair in my Nose]

23. Willie Horton

This is Willie Horton deja-Vu!

[union_maid]

25. They think that if something worked once it always will

This was as predictable as death and taxes. Kerry's campaign was ready for this. the DNC was ready. McCain probably gave a little thought ahead of time to what he'd do when it happened. When it was McCain, not too many people even knew who he was. Cleland was in a state race and that wasn't under a national microscope. This was a huge blunder, or maybe gamble on the part of the Republicans. It was either a mistake or they're so desperate that it was worth a shot.

[DinahMoeHum]

45. Old adage: "Never Play The Same Game Three Times Running"

1st time: Willie Horton
2nd time: John McCain in South Carolina primary
3rd time: Swift-boat ad.


Time's up, 'Pukes.


:kick::kick::kick:

[ItsMyParty]

26. This contains some real juicy possibilities for Kerry and the DNC

The key is to point out that it was the SAME band of scumbags that went after McCain---we know that, but the general population doesn't know either that it was done to McCain and/or that it was these same guys. Once that tie is established it paints a bad picture of Bush and the republicans. They can't pretend that this is some "out of the blue" attack. It starts to smell that they are into this up to their armpits. It looks like Bush is hiding his record, or his AWOL problem, etc. but trying to dishonor a veteran. (and the person above who said that Rove and Company always return to what worked before if right on the mark---thus, Teresa is a definite target; that's why it's important to jump on this now so that they have to think twice about starting the crap on Teresa that they did to McCain's wife and Dukakis' wife, etc.). Come on Kerry campaign, make the connection and put Bush right in the middle of it.

[Dr Fate]

31. I like it- it will force the media to ASK McCain about his situation...

...I hope the DNC is on the ball...

[Sparkly]

29. The difference is that people know the Chimp now

and they see the results. He's defeating himself as much as Kerry is defeating him.

[Dr Fate]

30. Time to bring out the AWOL stick again. n/t

n/t

[defoliant]

32. the fact they only bought a few airings is meaningless

The networks are playing it up. Kerry needs to put the guys from his boat on the tube. And the 527s have to fight fire, like by going after Bush on the AWOL issue -- see

www.rawstory.com

for great ammunition.

[mdguss]

33. They worked in South Carolina:

It wasn't just the horrible ads that belittled McCain's noble, honorable and distinguished service to our country, it was racist ads implying that McCain had fathered an daughter with an Asian mother (the truth is he adopted an Asian daughter).

It was below low. So is this. McCain is right to call them on it. The White House's press release shows exactly who is behind this one. This has Karl Rove's finger prints all over it. The Cleland ad. The racist ads against McCain, the smears against McCain's record, the ad up in New York paid for by two individuals (which is where the coordination ban comes from in the first place). The guy is doing a disservice to our country and our politics by peddling such shit as those ads. It feeds into cyncism that causes people to take their most precious right--the right to vote--lightly.

Bush should be ashamed. He clearly released it trying to get people to criticize third party ads, and get gentleman's agreement to ban them from the campaign. Of course, he only wants that because he scheduled his convention unnecessairly late, and it would give him a huge advantage. Bush and his henchmen are playing cynical games. Slandering someone's war service in order to gain a fiscal advantage is pathetic.

And people wonder why George W. Bush is so disliked by millions of Americans?

[Democat]

34. Bush promised to be a uniter and he continues to divide America

Another broken promise.

[Spiffarino]

37. Correction

The BS about "McCain's dark-skinned daughter born out of wedlock" was actually a push-poll done mostly to little old ladies and fundie Democrats. It wasn't an ad because that would have involved a modicum of honesty and courage. What they did was far more crooked and insidious.

What galls me about it is conservatives I know, when I bring it up, saying things like, "They never proved a link to Bush's campaign," as if it mattered.


On edit: wording

[RummyTheDummy]

35. Wrong.

Reasons they worked -- it was barely reported on, much less by the mainstream media at the time. The merit of these ads is actually being debated. Even my own local wingnut NBC affiliate was poo-pooing them today.

Second, the tactics employed against McCain were used primarily in a state (South Carolina) that isn't the most culturaly advanced in the union. Lots of dumb fundie christians. It also took place in a vacum and in relative secret. Other parts of the country won't be so tolerant to these tactics.

Third, you fail to account for Bush's cash/resources advantage over McCain in 2000.

[Beetwasher]

43. And Don't Forget the PUSH POLLING

That accompanied the ad.

[farmbo]

36. Pitting Kerry's " Band of Brothers" vs the GOP's "Band of Boneheads"

...we win in a laydown.

[Rev. Day-Bu]

39. Ditto

I was going to post essentially the same thing.

The Kerry camp should--and probably will--put together a counter-ad featuring Rev. Alston, Jim Rassman, and all the other guys who really DID serve with him. And the ad should not only show that Kerry's service was great, but should directly counter the "Smear Boat Veterans" ad by pointing out that none of these guys actually served with or knew Kerry, and the "doctor" (if he's even a doctor) who claims he treated Kerry didn't actually.

[WI_DEM]

38. well then maybe Kerry better get an ad on the air re: W's AWOL

status--fair is fair.

[wishlist]

40. Smears worked vs McGovern, McCain and Max Cleland but finally

there is acknowledgement in the media of the history of disgraceful RW smears of their political opponents' distinguished wartime records. The RWingers know that it has worked in the past starting with WW II hero McGovern whose patriotism was questioned when he ran against Nixon.

As long as only rabid RWingers like Hannity and Scarborough and Rush support the smear attack, it could backfire. Very good news today that media is covering story of how Kerry's flip-flopping commanding officer who recommended him for the Silver Star and supported him in 1996 now regrets participating in the smear and retracts his statements against Kerry.

Excellent timely letter appeared today in Asheville N.C. paper why Kerry should not have to spend his time and money defending these kind of attacks.

http://www.citizen-times.com/cgi-bin/article/letters/59182.shtml

Kerry needs immediate support from prominent military men such as Wes Clark.

[The Wielding Truth]

44. Just a court room trick

Isn't it the 'planting' of a raunchy thought that is being done here. Even if it is disproved the feeling lingers and the damage is done.
I suggest that the nasty taste of perjury be legally tasted by those who testified to this lie. This should be proven to be libel or slander by our righteous lawyers.
To the pious crowd I say, breaking the commandment of baring false witness is a sin that should be brought to light and witnessed to. Make it known that Godly people don't ruin reputations with falsehoods.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

41. But also, just because something worked once, it may not work again.

We don't know who these ads will hurt.