I just had to set an 11 year old STRAIGHT on the "Swiftboat" ad.

[in_cog_ni_to]

Man, I hate having to explain the truth to little kids. Their parents should be doing it. :grr: I live in repuke country and this crap is all over the place. Another little neighbor boy told my son that "Kerry will just be another Clinton." :grr: This is my life. <sigh>


My son has a friend over right now. My son came running downstairs to my office and said...."Mom, tell Jacob that the swiftboat story is a lie!" Jacob is standing behind him saying, "It's true! It's true!" and I said....."NO, it is NOT true!" He said, "Yes it is!" Me..."No, it's ALL a flat-out LIE! Not one of those men served with John Kerry in Vietnam and the ad is going to be pulled off of the air because it's a LIE." The little shit just stood there shaking his head "no" and says....."I don't believe it." Me....."Believe it, it's TRUE." He left my office with my son saying..."see? see? see? I told you!" :) That's my boy!

THIS is the little boy whose dad is a Marine, was almost killed in Vietnam and is "grooming" his sons (3 of them) to be Marines. The oldest son (a 15 year old) spent the summer going to different Marine "camps"....just for "fun." This 11 year old CAN'T WAIT to be a Marine. :eyes:

[Catfight]

1. These ads should be pulled and Bush should call for them to be pulled.

[Wickerman]

2. Bush should be pulled for not calling them to be pulled

and good on incognito (_ _ _ where they belong) for seeking the marine in making straight

[glitch]

3. ask him

"What would your father, the marine, say if he knew you were repeating lies about veterans?"

[yankee in nj]

4. "ask him"

you would also need to explain why only certain veterans get to tell their side of a story.

[Qutzupalotl]

7. Care to explain that comment?

[yankee in nj]

9. Re: Care to explain that comment

I just don't have a problem with allowing the other vets to have their say. I'm sure John Kerry can shoot these guys down if he chooses to. It seems pretty weak when he tries to make this about the difference between "serving with" and "serving on the same boat". It's not like they weren't all working on the same missions.

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. BUT, the ad SAYS

they served WITH John Kerry. THAT IS a lie. They did not serve with John Kerry. In fact, there's 2 different versions of what happened to Rasmussen in the water. Rasmussen's story and Thurlow's(?)(on another boat)story. WHO would know what happened to Rasmussen better than the man himself??? Come on! They are liars. Plain and simple.

[yankee in nj]

15. that's what I mean

They did serve with him, they were there together. It's not like they were on different ships, these were small boats.

There were 5 boats together on the river, one Guy says that he saw Rasmussen go into the water and that there were also others in the water at the same time due to a mine explosion.

My point is that they were serving together. They may be lying but not about serving together.

[Qutzupalotl]

16. They are lying about serving together.

To say you served WITH somebody is deliberately deceptive, if you only served at the same time. Some of the men never met Kerry. Some have praised him in earlier campaigns. Plus, Elliott retracted his statement, then retracted his retraction, so his credibility is shot.

I don't think the first amendment protects liars.

[yankee in nj]

20. re: They are lying about serving together

To claim that someone is lying because they weren't on the same boat yet were on the same missions is being deliberately deceptive. Do you think that JK thinks that he only served with the men on his boat?

This whole issue is not helping Bush, why not argue the facts and quit the name calling.

None of us know what happened on that river. Let the men who were there tell the story. The first amendment does protect this, libel can protect Kerry.

[Qutzupalotl]

22. Wrong.

They are being deliberately deceptive because they are trying to create the impression that they served closely with Kerry, when they did not.

>why not argue the facts and quit the name calling.
I am arguing the facts. They are liars. And by supporting them, you have proven yourself to be no better than these liars are.

>None of us know what happened on that river. Let the men who were there tell the story.
They did, at the convention. Did you miss it?

[Maddy McCall]

26. Bullshit. The ad says that they "served along side John Kerry."

THAT is what is deceptive. It is insinuating that these guys served on the same boat with Kerry. None did. The ones who actually served on Kerry's boat, minus one who has passed away, ALL SUPPORT KERRY.

And the doctor DID NOT TREAT KERRY! He flat-out lied. If you get a chance to see Susan Estrich's interview with one of these liars (was on Hannity last night--you should like that :-) ) it will all be much clearer to you.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. The ad shows a picture

of Kerry and his crew. The men in the pic are NOT the ones doing the ad and the vets against Kerry are trying to make people believe they are one and the same. They ARE lying. They did not serve under John Kerry. They were not on his boat. They were in the "vicinity." THAT is what they should have said. WHY aren't they screaming about the AWOL chimp who planted his fucking ass in Texas instead of going to Nam like Kerry did? This is BULLSHIT!

Rasmussen said he was being shot at and a guy from another boat says they were not being shot at. I think Rasmussen knows if bullets were flying at him or not. It's all one big LIE made to make Kerry look bad. It's dirty rotten politics. Just like what they did to Max Cleland and John McCain. Disgusting. :grr:

[rinsd]

23. Well what is the definition of "serving with"

Weren't these guys in his unit but not on his boat? I'm not quite sure what vets mean when they say served with. If it's almost always a direct relationship(ie: same platoon, boat, whatever), that would make it an exagerration.

Anyone got a decent answer on this one?

The rest is a bunch of he said/he said crap. Hopefully, Kerry willbe able to rise above this latest mudsling.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. They did not serve "under" John Kerry. They were not on his boat.

And they are lying about what happened because they are pissed off that he returned from Nam and protested the war.

I don't know if they were part of the same "unit" or "Platoon"...to me, it doesn't matter if they were. They are lying about the facts just because they are angry about his protests. This is going to backfire on them. They are looking very BAD right now.

[Maddy McCall]

27. Don't expect a response.

Tombstoned. :-)

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. I figured it wouldn't be long.

What a jerk. :eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. I'm SURE he got his "opinion"

from his Marine dad who's a repuke. :(

[glitch]

24. Yea, that's my point - the question will set up a discordance in his mind

and when he asks his father about it perhaps it will set one up there too. And maybe, I know unlikely, but just maybe the repuke Marine father will question his own beliefs.
It could happen. :D

[CarinKaryn]

6. Their father should be charged with child abuse.

and the kids should be taken away for reprogramming.

[MUSTANG_2004]

8. Well, technically...

you're response wasn't exactly accurate "Not one of those men served with John Kerry in Vietnam". I don't know about the others, but the fellow who was responsible for awarding Kerry the silver star certainly served with Kerry.

I think you meant to say "Not one of those men served under John Kerry"

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. You're right,

but he doesn't know that. :) He's still here so if it comes up again I will phrase it differently. :hi:

[DieboldMustDie]

10. "Kerry will just be another Clinton."

Woo Hoo! Eight more years of peace and prosperity. :bounce:

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. LOL!

That's what I said to my son when he told me what the kid had said. "What's wrong with that? Clinton was a great President!"

[Fleshdancer]

17. Peace, prosperity, and proper English! sounds sooo decadent

The concept sounds too good to be true. :)

[DaveFL99]

11. OK, this is my opening.

The controversy about this has given the story more publicity than it would have gotten if the damn ad had run.

I was watching O'Reilley last night (I don't know why and I sure didn't watch it all) and while he said the ad was a bad thing he PLAYED IT IN IT'S ENTIRETY. And he said that if any of the Swift Boats Vets who were involved in this ad wanted to come on and debate him about it he'd have a seat for them. That's just great. He'll condom them and keep running them.

Britt Hume covered the story by claiming that Bush had repudiated the ad and and condemned soft money and PLAYED THE FULL ad.

Boys and Girls we're getting screwed. What people will remember about this two weeks from now is what was in the ads. Bush isn't being hurt by this at all.

Carville would know what to do about this.

[cally]

18. Good for you

I think our kids are asking for validation and support. My kids have become radicals and occasionally ask for support for their positions. They are both more radical than I am but I always support them.

A different but related story. Several bumperstickers I had planned to pass out got wet. I decided to just give them away to friends. I go to send my kid to camp and asked someone I knew was a liberal if she wanted a Bumper Sticker. She took one, her husband did and then several parents walked up and asked for one. The funny part of all this is that one of my daughter's friends is a budding activist. She was looking shocked and then just laughed. I once pushed her to help me with a fundraiser for Kerry. She is a very radical and rejects traditional Dem party politics. When all these folks took Bumper stickers, including her own Mom, she just shook her head but looked with approval. Our next generation is ready for the fight. I think I taught her a lesson about activism.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. I agree about kids looking for validation.

My poor son was the only kid in his class to vote for Gore in the 2000 school election. He came home and was SO disgusted that he was the only Democrat in the whole class. I asked him if it felt good? and he said "Yeah, it felt great!" ;) I told him how proud I was of him for standing up for what he believed. (he was only 8 at the time!)He will always be involved in politics from here on out. He goes with me when I vote and gets a lecture on the importance of voting. He KNOWS. He helped me when I worked on the Wes Clark campaign and loved it. I just know that politics is in his blood now. That's a GOOD thing. Our kids SHOULD be involved and they should care about their country.