Question to Vets out there especially combat vets

[Bandit]

They said Kerry's first wound was self-inflicted and they used for their reasoning this little tidbit (from their book)

a. "Kerry's M-16 had jammed, and he picked up a grenade launcher, which he fired too close to shore and the shrapnel in his arm came from a grenade he launched, but Kerry claimed it was from enemy fire."

A grenade launcher has a built in safety feature to prevent just what they say happened. The round must travel a certain distance before it can explode. It doesn't matter what it hits it will not explode unless it has traveled a pre-determined distance. There is very little chance Kerry could have been wounded by his own grenade launcher. By design it cannot explode until it has reached a safe distance from the person firing the round. Most vets would know this. Especially if they spent any time in the field or were a grunt. So I find the statement highly dubious that he may have been wounded by his own M-79 Grenade.

This was what I was taught and I actually packed an M-79 for a while and I don't think it possible for one to wound themself with one. Anyone know anything different about this?

[HawkerHurricane]

1. Theoretically...

The distance traveled included any 'arc' you gave the round. If you pointed it straight up, it would arm on the way up and detonate when it hit you on the head.

But unlikely. They are reaching for anything to smear Kerry's service, since they can't defend Bushco's.

[PsN2Wind]

2. Google criteria purple heart

It states that a purple heart can not be awarded for a self-inflicted wound UNLESS it occurs in the "heat of battle". So they don't even have the winning side in that argument.

[chrisesq]

3. As I recall, it has to go 25 or 30 meters (can't remember) before it arms.

unlikely that someone could be injured by the round the round they fired. As I recall the M-79 (we had the M-203, but both used the 40mm HE round) has a lethal range of 5-10 meters from the blast.

[Jackpine Radical]

4. When I was in the hospital for a few (non-self-inflicted) AK holes,

there was a Vietnamese kid brought in with an unexploded M-79 round stuck in his face. He had been shot at such a close distance that it didn't arm. The surgeons more or less draped themselves in armored vests when they removed the round. Then they reconstructed his jaw.

As I recall, an M-79 round is fired out of a rifled barrel & designed to arm after a certain number of revolutions, amounting to about 40 feet of flight. The effective range is supposedly 5 meters, although that is the range at which you can count on getting enough pieces of frag into your opponent to take him out of action, and is not equivalent to the range that a piece of shrapnel can fly from it.

In combat, there's often a lot of stuff flying around & it's not possible to even guess where it's all coming from. There is certainly at least a remote chance that Kerry was hit by his own frag, but so what?

[leanings]

5. Well, 203 rounds

had a minimum arming distance of 14-28 meters. Minimum safe firing distance was supposedly 31 meters combat and 165 practice. (I can still remember this entire post briefing.)

But I found this on the M79:

"Early 40mm HE grenades could arm in as little as 5 meters (15 feet). This was found to give insufficient protection for jungle fighting. A later 40mm HE grenade extended the arming distance to 15 meters (45 feet). Muzzle velocity of the grenade is 75 meters/second (246 feet/second). The HE grenade has a kill radius of 5 meters (45 feet) and a wounding radius of 15 eters (50 feet). The HE grenade contains approximately 300 fragments."

http://www.mst2-vietnam.info/Stoner_ordnance_notes/stonerhtml/M-79_Grenade_Launcher.htm

It could happen. You could just as easily have 5.56 or 7.62 ricochet back at you. Ever seen tracer shot in an urban environment? Shit bounces all over like SuperBalls. It could have been shrapnel from his own GL; question is, why does it matter?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

6. "heat of battle" as per post 2. No it matters not. eom

[NukeProf]

7. Not likely, and some additional technical points

The M79 grenade rounds did nave to travel at least 5 meters to arm, but I think the newer (15 meter) rounds were in use by the time Kerry was in Vietnam. My recollection (I served as a squad leader there at the same time as the next President) is that we had the newer rounds. And while the thing could arm if you fired it straight up, it is difficult to imagine pulling that kind of boner.

My question, like others who have responded, is who could tell and does it matter? The wound was sustained in combat, hence the decoration. And the term SIW (self-inflicted wound) is usually reserved for wounds inflicted for the purpose of avoiding duty, which Kerry's certainly was not. More attempts by the smear machine to use techincal language in a way that would smear Kerry with vets, who think of SIWs in this technical sense.

By the way, we were also issued a short-range cannister round, loaded with 00 shot, for close action.

[dogman]

8. This is so petty and reflects on any vet who received any award.

How many medals have been awarded? Are they all up for review now? These men have no honor and definitely support an administration that does not honor the sacrifices made by Veterans. I knew a true hero who was shot in the back of the head during a firefight by his own brothers accidentally and left a widow and an unseen son. Is his sacrifice meaningless? These liars are not deserving of the attention they have been given. Kerry never said all the troops over there were guilty of atrocities, but atrocities sure happened.

[NukeProf]

9. Pat Tillman and meaningless death

As I recall, Pat Tillman was eulogized extensively after his death in Afghanistan. For those of you who forget, he was the Arizona Cardinals player who enlisted after 9/11. Later it was found that he died as a result of friendly fire. I don't recall any of the pro-war set, like Sen. McCain, revising their eulogies in light of this aspect of his demise.

[dogman]

10. You've reminded me of a call I had published in the local paper.

When their country faced war three prominent and wealthy young men enlisted in their nation’s military service. After being trained all three made requests of their commander. Pat Tillman requested to be sent to Afghanistan to fight for his country. John Kerry requested to be sent to Viet Nam to fight for his country. George W. Bush requested to be sent to Alabama to campaign for his Party.

[UTUSN]

11. Too Much Emphasis on the Purple Heart. What About the Silver/Bronze Stars

The captain (actually, Lieutenant) of my ship got a Purple Heart because the glass shattered at the bridge and he got cut ---AND BLED---- from the rocket shot at the ship. *I* didn't get a Purple Heart, but we were ALL in some kind of danger.

We don't care while it's happening. Why does anybody else?

"Just gimme a coupla aspirin.
I already got a Purple Heart."