Let me try a simple metaphor for Kerry's War Resolution vote:

[Jackpine Radical]

We're about to send a cop out into a bad neighborhood. Should we give him a gun?
Yes.

The cop panics and kills a kid with the gun.

Does that mean we shouldn't have armed the cop?
No.
It means we should get a better class of cop.

If Kerry wins, he's going to have to go into some bad neighborhoods, and he'll maybe want a gun. If he now says it was wrong to arm the first cop, his opponents will turn that into an argument for not giving him a gun when his turn comes to go into that neighborhood.

Giving the President war authority is not the same thing as approving his stupid use of the authority.

[blm]

1. Simple and BRILLIANT.

Grazie.

[kikiek]

2. Excellent..I love it.

[ItsMyParty]

3. Just one correction

the "cop" didn't panic and kill the kid---he intended to kill the kid before going into the neighborhood.

[Generator]

6. That's it because Kerry didn't share the absolute loathing of Bush

that those that are/were anti-war, he didn't get it. He should have known that Bush was a dirty cop, and because he didn't-Kerry is almost as bad as Bush.

All those things that have come out since, the manipulations of the CIA by Cheney, the revelations of Clarke's book, well, damn that Kerry he should have known.

I think better of him than that. And that's because I must, and cynicism will just have me in the gutter. I'm going to believe Kerry when he says he trusted the President to be a real leader and not mess around with lives. Bush has done something unconscionable-and I'm not putting that on Kerry.

The blame belongs to Bush.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. I know that & agree, but for the limited purpose of my

metaphor, I didn't get into the motive in order to keep it simple.

[MoonRiver]

26. Making that cop a really BAD cop.

Yet another reason of why we need to get rid of really bad cop *, and replace him with good cop Kerry! :D

[mike_c]

4. OK, but the kid was unarmed....

He'd destroyed his weapons-- which the "cops" had given to him in the first place. He was already handcuffed and shackled by U.S. and U.K. overflights and bombing missions. His neighborhood was poisoned with depleted uranium. He was starving to death under U.N. sanctions-- 500,000 children from his neighborhood were already dead. His 'hood-- once one of the best in the city-- was shattered and crumbling because the "cops" had been preventing the delivery of services and using it for target practice for more than a decade.

We used to call them pigs when they oinked. I smell bacon in your metaphor.

[Jackpine Radical]

Yes, of course. This all raises a much larger set of issues

than I wanted to get into. I was thoroughly opposed to the war and to the resolution, but was trying--from a different set of assumptions than I held--to explain Kerry's behavior in terms that at least make sense and show him to be consistent. Hell, I was a Dean supporter & always thought Kerry was too DLC/Bonesy, but right now he's the only game in town.

[Q]

5. Jesus...it's like the Constitution doesn't matter anymore...

...Congress can't LEGALLY give the 'president' open-ended permission to wage war if he so desires. The Constitution says that the people's representatives must vote on it and DECLARE war.

- Iraq is a clusterfuck and Kerry won't be able to change that unless he pulls troops out of that hellhole. How many more excuses are Demcrats going to come up with to justify the killing of thousands of innocents and unnecessarily putting troops into harm's way?

- And...you didn't explain why that 'cop' had to go into that neighborhood in the first place? Was he pursuing a criminal? Or was he just 'looking for bad people' that may or may not be about to commit a crime?

[salib]

7. FINALLY, FINALLY, FINALLY!

Some sense. Thank you Q.

[WilliamPitt]

9. How was it open-ended

It was directed at Iraq. They tried to make it open-ended, but the evil Democrat Congressbastards took that shit out.

Congress has the power to give the president war powers. Gosh, in fact, that's a decent-sized portion of their job.

SECTION 8 OF THE CONSTITUTION:

Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

[DaveinMD]

11. this has been dead for some time

we haven't declared war since WWII. That includes the Korean War, Vietnam, and Clinton's interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo. I doubt we'll be declaring war again.

[mike_c]

12. congress did not declare war on Iraq....

They abdicated that responsibility-- and the responsibility for informed debate instead of patriotic speecifying-- by giving Bushco a blank check for war. It WAS open ended-- Bush had only to decide, in his own judgment, that Iraq should be invaded. He could and did base that judgment on lies and provocateurs-- Congress placed no restrictions on the administration that would prevent war or require examination of evidence in advance.

[Sparkly]

17. He could have ordered the invasion anyway

Bush had only to decide, in his own judgment, that Iraq should be invaded.

Congress didn't give him that. He's the Commander in Chief (the USSC gave him that!).

[mike_c]

19. but then at least Congress wouldn't be complicit....

Neither would one of my state's senators be complicit, nor would my party's candidates for president and vice-president. And the neocon cowards would not have dared invade without cover from a compliant Congress.

[oasis]

10. Good enough. (at least for the rational thinking population)

;-)

[blondeatlast]

13. Excellent. nt

[welshTerrier2]

14. aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhhhh ....

are you kidding me ??

i see no great value in listening to you hawks defend anyone's pro-war vote including Kerry's ... so i will not argue the IWR here ...

but i will take great issue with your absurd analogy ... allow me to propose another in its place ...

congress did not arm a policeman hoping he would do a good job protecting the innocent people in the community ... they armed a gangster and told him to use his judgment about whom to kill, how many to kill and when to kill ... most of us here knew the gangster wanted to slaughter tens of thousands of Iraqis ...

didn't you ??

[IronLionZion]

15. right on the money

it's not Kerry's fault that Bush abused the IWR (I think he actually violated it) And we know that Bush violated the UN resolution that HE PROPOSED! That's the sort of dumbasses we are dealing with here. Everybody knows Kerry is smart enough not to fuck up like Bush did.

[Sparkly]

16. Excellent!!

I love analogies, and this is a GREAT one!! Thank you! :hi:

[DaveinMD]

18. a message to anyone thinking of not voting for Kerry

I am so sick of people on the left making the perfect the enemy of the good. This is why the right keeps beating us. Because if we don't get everything our way, we pick up our toys and go home. If this continues, we're going to live in a country where there is no social safety net, where people are jailed for voicing dissent, where social security is eliminated, where the income tax is eliminated and more regressive taxation is in place and more terrible things. If this is what you want, vote for Nader or stay home. If you want to change things for the better, vote for John Kerry.

[quaker bill]

30. Another lame analogy

"Making the perfect the enemy of the good" requires the "good" to be present. No "good" was ever going to come of that vote. Tens of thousands of dead Iraqi's in an unjust war is not "good".

I will vote for Kerry because to the extent the "perfect" can be the enemy of the "good", it is only that much more the enemy of the "bad".

[latebloomer]

20. Doesn't make sense to me

He was a homicidal maniac, not a cop, and Kerry knew it and approved it anyway. Doesn't say much for his judgment-- or should I say morality.

[sampsonblk]

21. You omitted that the cop had killed repeatedly before...

and that the "kid" had tried to bump off the cop's daddy and that the cop has repeatedly stated his intention to have this kid removed one way or another.

Only a fool or a politician would hand over the gun under those circumstances. In any event, both would be at fault.

[ClassWarrior]

22. Awesome meme JR... you must be a Cheesehead.

[Jackpine Radical]

24. A meme with mixed reviews around here, I'd say.

BTW thanx for the sticker.

[quaker bill]

23. A better analogy

It was more like handing a 13 year old boy the car keys and then appearing shocked that he chose to drive and in fact does not drive very well.

Now that the accident has happened, the least we can do is take the keys away from the boy.

At least with Kerry we will be handing the keys to an adult.

[CTLawGuy]

25. shouldn't you make sure

the cop won't kill any kids before you give him a gun?

Doesn't the cop have to go through training and get a background check before you put him on the street with a gun?

[Jacobin]

27. Careful with analogy. Kerry sent Barney Fucking Fife out in

that neighborhood with a gun.

It was irresponsible and he knows it.

[GreenArrow]

28. the whole issue is a question of means versus ends

Kerry disaproved of Bush's means, but not the ends, ends which are fundamentally putrid and insupportable.

[The Hair in my Nose]

29. Yeah, but...

***Giving the President war authority is not the same thing as approving his stupid use of the authority.***

In this case Kerry didn't generically vote to give cops in general a gun, he knew who the cop was that he approved to tote a gun.

Heck, sane voices {Kucinich} warned the congress not to place a gun in this whacko's hand.

The "generic authorization ploy" ignores the historical contextual reality that this was the authorization of GEORGE W. CHIMP to pack heat! I assumes Kerry could not have foreseen the consequences of arming THIS president.

The analogy is, unfortunately, flawed.

~ The Hair in My Nose