Swiftboat talking points

[Gman]

from our friends at FR who are keeping the SB vet thing going:

One never knows who is trolling FR for tidbits, sound bites and suggestions. Please use this thread to offer your own talking points and sound bites for the Swifties and media.

PLEASE - Sincere, serious and well thought out sound bites/talking points only! Let's make this a neat, compact reference thread for the media and Swifties. If someone refuses to cooperate, please self moderate (abuse button)!

1. Of course these men weren't on Kerry's boat, they were contemporaries, peers, senior officers and fellow swiftboat captains who were commanding their own boats and men alongside Kerry during the time of the events in question.

2. Collectively these men have 375 years of experience in Vietnam and on their swift boats, compared to the 16 total months of Kerry and his nine enlistees.

3. These men were in boats yards away from Kerry and were witnesses to what happened. They were well positioned to observe the events in question.

4. Many of the Swift Boat Vets are decorated war heroes themselves and not only have earned the right but have a duty to expose thos who they believe received honors fraudulently.

5. The Swift Boat Vets who signed the petition collectively earned (Insert total of medals and honors) Saying these men do not have the right to speak out or claiming they are lying is an abomination and insult to all soldiers who served their country honorably during the VietNam war.

6. Saying the Swifties have no right to give witness to these events because they were not in the same boat as Kerry is like saying Ron Goldman (if he survived) has no right to testify against OJ because he wasn't wearing Bruno Magli shoes.

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You'll be hearing these and others to be added on your local talk shows shortly.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1188761/posts

[Skinner]

1. LOL

"Saying the Swifties have no right to give witness to these events because they were not in the same boat as Kerry is like saying Ron Goldman (if he survived) has no right to testify against OJ because he wasn't wearing Bruno Magli shoes."

:wtf:

[madmax]

3. Out of the mouths of 'morans'

[Connie_Corleone]

5. That's the stupidest think I've ever read.

It amazes me how these right-wing idiots are willing to take the word of people who barely knew Kerry over people who were actually on the boat with him.

[Connie_Corleone]

21. THING

N/T

[beyurslf]

2. #5: These same men are attacking Kerry who won

<insert number of medals here> fighting honoraly in Vietnam. Why are they not dishonoring every servicemember?

Where are Bush's medals?

One of those men also signed the recommendation for Kerry's medals. Surely it is a felony to recommend someone who medals in service if the events are not truly worthy. I hope the Armed Services are looking into this.

[BR_Parkway]

4. Interesting how so many believe what these guys claim to remember

from 35 years ago - and are the same who say that it doesn't matter that NOBODY can remember * showing up for active duty. I have always wondered if Freepers have some type of learning disability or chemical imbalance that lets them totally gloss over or never notice the direct inconsistencies.

Like the entire "Kerry is a flip flopper" AND "Kerry has always voted for the most liberal causes, worse than Hillary or Ted Kennedy" - common sense says you could be one or the other, but being either one cancels out the other - duh

[sangh0]

6. "These men were in boats yards away from Kerry and were witnesses.."

OK, if they were so close, why didn't THEY save Rassmun?

[aden_nak]

7. Here's the question, though. . .

How many of these guys WERE on other Swift Boats at the same time as Kerry? I have heard/read that many of them were not even remotely close (from a location standpoint) to John Kerry during the course of their duties. I mean, technicaly, I am "yards away" from Kerry right now. Just many, MANY yards away. Now that's not a fact, that is just what I have heard, and thus it needs checking into. Anyone?

***Note to Freepers: This is what you do when you are not sure of something, you look it up, or at least admit to not being sure. Stating it as fact when you have no evidence to prove that fact is a nothing more than a small-minded combination of lying and laziness.**

[Gman]

10. You made a key point here

They won't use numbers in their proper context. For example, they keep saying the economy is the best in 20 years and we're adding jobs every month. The appallingly dismal jobs report last week sent the market way down last week, but hey, we added jobs.

[reprehensor]

8. They 'served' with Kerry in the same sense that...

...Snoopy 'served' with the Red Baron.

Thank you Jon Stewart.

[quispquake]

9. Yup, my favorite line from last night...

The Daily Show ROCKED last night!!!

[lapfog_1]

11. Point for point refutation

1. First off, please produce the documentation that these vets were
on boats RIGHT NEXT to Kerry's. Not just in Mekong delta somewhere.
(You'll excuse us if we are now a little skeptical). Second,
even if they are on the boat right next to Kerry's, how can they say
they know more about what Kerry did or said then the guys that WERE
on Kerry's boat? Unless they hoped off their boats and ran up the trail
and SAW Kerry confront the Viet Cong with the rocket launcher, how
can they say for sure that he was unarmed or running the other way or
any of the other Fucking Lies you've been spreading.

2. I'm sure that the men that served with Kerry (including Kerry)
spent, per capita, as much time in Vietnam as your clowns. Oh, did
you bother to say that Kerry's swiftboat service was his SECOND
tour of duty... he had already served a complete tour IN VIETNAM
on board ship... the second was a complete volunteer deal. Or are
you saying that all Navy shipboard veterans aren't REAL veterans
(and I have a dead brother who will come back and personally rip
out your eyes).

3. Yards away? Again, pardon our distrust, especially since the
commercial they produced gave the clear impression that the
Not-so-swift boat veterans for truth were on the same boats as
Kerry, but please provide Navy documents to back up this claim.
And again, 50 yards away and having their own boat to man and
their own fights to fight, I'm sure they were closely watching what
another boat was doing. Oh, since there were often 3 or 4 boats
on some of these raids (and Kerry was just another Lt back then),
quick who served on the OTHER boats... and I'm sure they watched
what they did too, so please (without consulting with anyone)
provide the details.

4. Decorated. Great. Please go vote for AWOL Bush. Being a
decorated vet does NOT give anyone the right to lie about anything.
And they've been proven to be liars.

5.Again, does not give them the right to lie. And lie they did.

6. Hmmm. That's just so silly, you folks cannot even construct a
correct analogy.

[ljm2002]

22. "decorated war heroes"

"4. Many of the Swift Boat Vets are decorated war heroes themselves and not only have earned the right but have a duty to expose thos who they believe received honors fraudulently."

But wait a minute. Aren't these guys calling into question the validity of medals in general? I mean, if Kerry's medals were *undeserved*, who's to say that their medals (assuming they really have any) are *deserved*? If the military can't be trusted to give medals for things that really happened -- if, in fact, one of the guys speaking up was actually *responsible* for commending Kerry and helping him to *get* one of his medals -- then how can they fall back on the "decorated war heroes" line? Huh? I ask ya!

[mememe]

12. Why doesn't Kerry kill this issue right away?

It would be so easy for JK to put this to bed tomorrow and totally discredit the Swift Boat Veterans. All he has to do is authorize the Navy to release all his service records. That would provide the documentation to refute any of their claims. I can't understand why he won't do that.

[Gman]

13. Gee, that's what the right wing wants Kerry to do too

what a coincidence.

[lapfog_1]

14. He already has.

www.johnkerry.com

That's why when the doctor of the SBVFT said he treated one of
the wounds for which Kerry received a purple heart, it was easy
to debunk... because that guys name doesn't appear on any of
John Kerry's medical records... including the ones where he was
treated after being hit with shrapnel.

Even Kerry admits that the wounds were minor, none kept him from
returning to duty. But the criteria for a purple heart is that
you receive wounds while engaged with the enemy.

[zulchzulu]

15. 3 simple points to debunk

1. NONE of the SBVFT members were on ANY of the swift boats that Kerry was on. The ad attempts to give the impression that they were on the same boat as Kerry.

2. The SwiftieCon that said he treated Kerry for his Purple Heart is a liar.

3. The Navy gives medals of valor after a board review and through a series of approval processes. To say Kerry's medals are not valid to to say that all those that recieved medals are not valid or should also be under scrutiny. The very point of questioning the validity of the medals is AN ATTACK on our military.

SwiftieCons like Hoffman and Elliot gave rave reviews of Kerry back when it happened. They are scum for changing their viewpoint 35 years later.

[aden_nak]

16. An excellent point here.

Are we to believe, then, that everyone involved in awarding Kerry those medals is/was a liar? Or dishonest? Or disrespectful towards the military and the vererans of Vietnam? Are we to believe that it is John Kerry's FAULT that he was awarded medals?

[zulchzulu]

17. Here is the possible ad to debunk the SBVFT ad

Simply get one or two of the people who awarded the medals for Kerry or anyone else during the Vietnam War to say that the process to award soldiers medals goes under hard scrutiny and review before awarding the soldier for their valor. To attack that process is to attack the validity of the process and hence, to attack the military and those who have fought and died for America.

Bitch....slap.....

[greensforpeace]

18. Have they given on the "Kerry was not in Cambonia" crap?

I've been reading how the "members not on the same boat" claim Kerry was NOT in Cambodia.

Will these people ever quit???

[Bush was AWOL]

19. What about Gardner?

I believe he is the only one. The Cambodian story is the only one that is questionable to me.

[delete_bush]

20. This whole thing is laughable

there is no reason to believe that anyone can clearly remember what happened so long ago in a setting that was pure hell and chaos on a daily basis.

If you ask any of these "swifties" what happened in any of the other battles they were in, those not involving Kerry, I dare say you would get a hundred different answers.

O'Neill has had a hard on for Kerry since the time his hero Nixon picked him to do battle with Kerry. It's interesting that Colson apologized to Kerry for any pain he suffered as a result of what he had done to him, and that later in life Nixon and Kerry met and seemed to have moved on from this incident.

Can you imagine the wrath from the repukes had anyone seriously questioned the circumstances surrounding Poppy's Distinguished Flying Cross?