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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 01:56 PM
Original message
My second, more revised and updated, Electoral map

* COMBINED SAFE+VERY LIKELY = 179 *
safely Kerry: 168
CA,HI,IL,DC,DE,NJ,NY,CT,RI,MA,VT

very likely Kerry: 11
WA
-----------
swing-state leaning Kerry: 64
OR,NM,MN,MI,PA,ME:

Tossup: 89
NV,WI,IA,MO,OH,WV,FL,NH

swing-state leaning Bush: 64
AZ,CO,AR,TN,VA,NC
-----------
very likely Bush: 27
SD,LA,GA

safely Bush: 115
AK,ID,UT,ND,MT,WY,NE,KS,OK,TX,IN,KY,MS,AL,SC
* COMBINED SAFE+VERY LIKELY = 142 *
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Looks good, thank you
I hope you have the time and inclination to keep this updated throughout the campaign. Of the states that you listed as a tossup I think Kerry will pick up FL, IA, NH, WI. That should be enough to put him over the top.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Here's my stripped analysis
Edited on Tue Aug-10-04 02:22 PM by Bombtrack
Unless he can win BOTH Nevada and West Virginia, he needs to 1 one of these 3 states(because they're probably going to go for him before any of the "orange" states): Missouri, Ohio, or Florida.

Him winning every state we did in 00(not including FL) gives him 260. He needs another 10 to win. Missouri has 11, Ohio has 20, and Florida has 27. Of course this is not some absolute. But if I were a pundit who had to strip the election down to it's most probable, that's what I would say. Either we win Nevada AND West Virginia, or Missouri, or Florida, or Ohio.
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. We seem to be thinking along the same lines
I think NH and FL are the two states most likely to come over to Kerry this time around.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Looks about right
I might classify PA and MI as very likely, and NH, IA and WI as swing states leaning dem (while the polls are very close Kerry has a small lead in both)...

But then again it's not a bad idea to be somewhat conservative when classifying this and this is probably how the campaign is looking at it. None of the states listed as swing leaning for Kerry, swing, or swing leaning for Bush can be taken granted. I think Kerry can pull quite a few of them off.
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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good work ... we should try to keep this going

I listen to West Va NPR on the way to work each morning and West Va is sounding more and more like Kerry-Country from what I am hearing in polls.

Good to keep it "Toss Up", but this is one I would not be surprised if we carried...

Otherwise, your analysis is pretty damn good.
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Call me a skeptic..
but I am convinced that West Virginia and Nevada are the more likely path to victory this year. Ohio, despite all of this effort, still looks ugly (tied at best.. and this is before Bush's alleged bounce), and Florida is always suspect in my mind.

The good news with this scenario? It looks very likely that Kerry will win WV and NV.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. More likely than what?
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. More likely than..
winning either Florida or Ohio.

Ohio residents seem to refuse to learn the lesson of voting against one's own interests. And while Florida looks ripe right now, I am still a bit leery.

Of course, don't construe this as a "we should give-up" message. I still think we should fight like hell for FL and OH, but I also think that WV and NV not being in the same intense media spotlight could help us sneak a victory via these states..
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. You analysis is very good
We aren't gonna win FL or OH. Gotta find another way to 270.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. idiotic, unsubstantiated, and damaging scare tactics
Take this drivle to another thread.
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Lefty Pragmatist Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. ?
Kind of a weird response to someone's opinion that is, after all, not that far from the mainstream.

Personally, I think we have a decent shot in OH and a weak (but non-zero) shot in FL. But I don't see the justification for the freak out response.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Yeah if you go by the rediculous belief that the Florida GOP holds
all the cards, unique to any other state GOP in the country. Such as the GOP governor, legislature, and secretary of State in Ohio, the headquarters of DIEBOLD.

Yeah, they stole the election in 2000, but it wasn't a masterminded type of event. It was a sloppy, do-everything-you-can as-you-go type of fraud, that COULDN'T have taken place if 600 more people had voted for Gore.

This Fix-is-in attitude is wrong and anti-helpful to our cause, and only will lose us votes in the biggest swingstate.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Bullsh!t.
If we win by so much as over a point nationally we win FL and OH. We can't just be writing them off when we have such a good chance of winning them. To do so leaves us with no margin of error. States generally follow national trends in case you didn't know.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. SD and GA
I don't see how South Dakota and Georgia could be anything but safe Bush states. Even if they were theoretically winnable, the fact is that the Kerry campaign won't devote any resources to these states, which ensures that they'll end up in the Bush column.

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Big Al from WI Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. South Dakota--
Who is going to vote for Daschle and then turn around and vote for Bush?
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. people who like the ag pork he brings in
it's strange yes, but in 2000 ND above voted for * in a landslide and reelected Kent Conrad in a landslide, in fact Conrad did BETTER than *. SD is pretty similar. So strange as it sounds a good portion of SD will be voting for both Daschle and *.

I will say this though, all 4 Senators from the Dakotas are very smart campaigners. They know how to run in their states well.
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Fone Book Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. I remember reading something...
It said that the South Dakota GOP was disgusted that the republican state had two democratic senators.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. SD has an indy minded electorate
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Well Kerry might be spending some time on the Sioux Falls media market
Considering Sioux Falls provides most of the media for southwestern Minnesota and northwestern Iowa. But it won't be enough to cut down on his margin of loss in the lost cause western half of SD, and since it would make more sense to hit the population centers of the mentioned states, I doubt there will be much in Sioux Falls, not to mention that part of Iowa is the most right wing part of the state and actually makes most of the Deep South look liberal, and no, this is not an exaggeration.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
23. You'd be amazed how much closer GA would be with an innovative GOTV
effort. The state has the biggest black influx and growth of any in the country over the last 15 years, with an even higher rate since 2000, and it also has the second LOWEST turnout in the country. I'm not saying it's a swingstate. But it is not in the same category as SC or OK or UT
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. That was my only problem with the analysis
South Dakota and Georgia are absolutely solid for Bush. In fact, both of them will have far greater margins, in favor of Bush, than other states which are listed as safe for either candidate.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Have you even LOOKED at Georgia polls?
Bush hovers at 48-49, Kerry in the low 40's. You're just wrong that there are any "dark" red states up there that are in that place in the polls.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. CT is solid Kerry?
I thought they leaned repug.

:shrug:
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Connecticutt leaned Republican
from the Civil War to the 1980's. Not since then.

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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. No way - Kerry is up by 15+ points
Gore destroyed Bush here in 2000 as well, & Clinton won in '92 and '96...
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. My analysis
Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Florida.

If either guy wins three of the four, he's in.

If it's 2-2, we're looking at another Gore- Bush cliffhanger.

In trivia news, the four beige southern states are the exact same four states that joined the Confederacy after Fort Sumpter. I thought I was looking at a history textbook for a second there.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. Interesting fact
You're the DU resident military historian.
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. I've come to the conclusion that JK needs to get to 270 without
Florida or Ohio. He won't win either. He must win the Gore states, NH, WV and either AZ, NV, TN or AR.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. That's bunk.
We can't write off Florida and Ohio. What the hell's the matter with you? If we do that we have no margin for error. Besides, we have good chances in both states. Your strategy loses.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thank you. These people are doing Bush's work for him
and no, I'm not saying they're plants. Just misguided and ignorantly defeatist.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. While I would like another way
to the 270 (because I'm a bit leary of the fraud factor in both states), it would be incredibly foolish and idiotic to neglect the 47 combined electoral votes.

Kerry is smart and has his lawyers ready...and I'm sure he's ready to move if there is any indication of fraud.

There is no reason Kerry shouldn't be able to take Florida. He's polling better there than he is in Minnesotta! Many factors favor dems including demographics - many hispanics are dissapointed with Bush and there is a great opportunity.

I agree about NV, WV, and NH...but I think it'll be tough to get AZ.
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DemWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
24. I would have NM in the Kerry very likely light blue.
My Mom and Step-Dad live outside of Santa Fe and are very active politically, and from what they've seen and said, it's going to be a blue state.
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DemWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. and sorry, I forgot... Excellent Job!!!
I did a scenario, long since forgotten now, that had Bush and *A Democrat* tied. It involved New Hampshire, Nevada, and Arizona. I was like oh shit... but that was a while ago, during the first leg of the primaries.
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sleipnir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Perhaps, but Santa Fe is an anomaly politically in NM.
It's a liberal bastion, whilst the rest of the state tends to be more of a 50-50 split, but who knows this time around.

I'm not questioning your parents observations, only expressing that the state is quite politically complicated. I lived in Santa Fe for about 4 months a couple years ago and I got a good sense of the political oddity that is New Mexico.

I feel that Kerry should still focus attention in the state to assure a victory. It could be a mistake if Kerry writes off NM as a win this early in the campaign.
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sleipnir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-12-04 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Again, Bombtrack, Nice Job! Keep this up, this should be front page stuff
Ahhh, I see you now have NJ solid Blue :evilgrin: I knew it was only a matter of time!! No "Suggestions" this time, it looks exactly as I see the race to be "if the election were held today" (as much as I hate that phrase.)
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Sorry if I go by polls and not your parents
Don't mean to sound snarky, but I wasn't sure whether to keep in in the yellow much less light blue.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
26. Colorado is now officially tossup.
With the battle between Salazar and Coors, and 3 to 1 Democratic voted yesterday in the primaries, it is more and more likely that it could turn to Kerry's favor. He has visited Colorado three times, all with positive numbers, and Kerry is already within the MOE of the polling here in Colorado lately. Of course, Kerry is a native of Colorado, born in Aurora, CO at Fitzsimmons Army Medical Center (defunct).

Hawkeye-X
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I really don't think a big turnout for the dem primary trumps the fact
That most of the public professional polling firms haven't even been polling CO. Meaning the internals are probably that bad for Kerry and that good for Bush. Bush was at either 49 or 48 percent in almost all the polls prior
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-04 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
35. That is a terrific map & thank you for your effort....
I have my own electoral map, which I constantly play with, & I agree with you almost completely.

I would give Ga & S Dak to Bush...

I read yesterday that Kerry will not contest Arkansas...I hope this is not true...between Clinton, Wes Clark, & 2 Dem Senators, it seems it would be doable.

I also like the fact that you are looking at this in a conservative way...better to be cautious.

About a week or 2 after the Repub Convention, the polls should tell us a lot.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-04 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
36. I'd switch AZ & MO
I think MO is more likely to go Bush than AZ right now. Any reason I shouldn't think that? I'd also have Wisconsin green. Other than that, looks about right to me. Those three are just judgment calls, the numbers are pretty close.

Have to get those undecideds.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-13-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. "Any reason I shouldn't think that?" No, not if you look at the polls.
Edited on Fri Aug-13-04 01:31 PM by Bombtrack
Missouri:

Date,   Polling Co. Type MOE Republican Democrat Margin 

6/30/04 Rasmussen        LV 5.0% Bush 48% Kerry 44% Bush +4 

7/ 8/04 SurveyUSA    755 LV 4.0% Bush 48% Kerry 46% Bush +2 

7/20/04 Market R.I.  600 RV 4.0% Bush 44% Kerry 46% Kerry +2 

7/22/04 Research2000 802 LV:
 Nader not an option -      4.0% Bush 45% Kerry 48% Kerry +3 
 Nader an option -          4.0% Bush 45% Kerry 47% Kerry +2 

7/22/04 Gallup Link  636 LV:
 Nader not an option -      5.0% Bush 48% Kerry 48% Push 
 Nader an option -          5.0% Bush 47% Kerry 47% Push 

7/31/04 Rasmussen        LV 5.0% Bush 50% Kerry 46% Bush +4 

Missouri Likely voters Zogby Interactive: 
Date    MOE Republican Democrat  Margin 
5/24/04 4.3% Bush 43.9% Kerry 47.2%  Kerry +3.3 
6/ 6/04 2.7% Bush 48.6% Kerry 47.6%  Bush +1.0 
6/21/04 3.1% Bush 48.6% Kerry 47.9%  Bush +0.7% 
7/10/04 3.3% Bush 46.8% Kerry 50.1%  Kerry +3.3% 
7/23/04 3.9% Bush 48.1% Kerry 48.8%  Kerry +0.7% 
7/30/04 3.2% Bush 48.2% Kerry 48.8%  Kerry +0.6%  
(Zogby Interactive polls involve a self-selected group of
respondants, and as such are highly suspect.) 
----------------------------------------------
Arizona:

Date    Polling Co. Type MOE Republican Democrat  Margin 

2/19/04 SurveyUSA   RV   4.3% Bush 52% Kerry 44%  Bush +8 

2/22/04 AZ St. U. 430 RV 4.0% Bush 44% Kerry 46%  Dem +2 

3/18/04 SurveyUSA 634 LV 4.0% Bush 51% Kerry 42%  Bush +9 

4/26/04 AZ St. U. 410 RV 5.0% Bush 41% Kerry 38%  Bush +3 

5/4/04 Behavior Research Center: 
Nader not option- 555 RV 4.0% Bush 46% Kerry 42%  Bush +4 
Nader an option-  555 RV 4.0% Bush 45% Kerry 37%  Bush +8 

Date    Polling Co. Type MOE Republican Democrat  Margin 

5/23/04 AZ St. U. 377 RV 5.0% Bush 43% Kerry 38%  Bush +5 

6/13/04 Market S. 600 LV 4.0% Bush 44% Kerry 41%  Bush +3 

6/27/04 AZ St. U. 400 RV 5.0% Bush 47% Kerry 35%  Bush +12 

7/07/04 BehaviorRe.C. RV 5.0% Bush 48% Kerry 36%  Bush +12 

7/14/04 SurveyUSA 767 LV 4.0% Bush 53% Kerry 41%  Bush +12 

7/18/04 AZ St. U. 400 RV 5.0% Bush 41% Kerry 42%  Kerry +1 

8/01/04 Market S. 601 LV 4.0% Bush 48% Kerry 45%  Bush +3 

Key:
AZ St. U. = Arizona State University
Market S. = Market Solutions
BehaviorRe.C.
          = Behavior Research Center
-----------------------------------------------------------
Wisconsin:

Date    Polling Co. Type   MOE Republican Democrat Margin 

6/8/04  LA Times    694 RV 4.0% Bush 44%  Kerry 42% Bush +2
 
6/23/04 Badger Poll 504 Adults:
Nader an option            4.0% Bush 46% Kerry 42%  Bush +4 

7/12/04 C.F.S.R.A.  575 RV
two man race -             4.0% GB 48.4% JFK 45.9%  Bush +2.5 
four man race -            4.0% GB 46.1% JFK 44.6%  Bush +1.5 

7/13/04 Strategic V.(R) 801 LV
Nader not an option -      4.0% Bush 45% Kerry 48%  Kerry +3 
Nader an option -          4.0% Bush 45% Kerry 48%  Kerry +3 

7/15/04 A.R.G.      600 LV 4.0% Bush 42% Kerry 48%  Kerry +6 

8/2/04 Strategic V.(R) 801 LV
Nader not an option -      3.0% Bush 46% Kerry 49%  Kerry +3 
Nader an option -          4.0% Bush 46% Kerry 47%  Kerry +1 
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
40. Bump
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DrMath Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
42. I've got one too!
That's a really nice map. I have one too:

http://www.spacerad.com/electoral/
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. You've got Maine to the right of New Hampshire?
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