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Lone_Wolf_Moderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 01:25 AM
Original message
Somebody dissuade my fears....
I just checked out the RNC hit piece on Kerry's Iraq war flip flops. Not to freak anyone out, but all in all, it doesn't look good. Based on what Kerry said today about the war, and the way he comes off in this "documentary," he looks like a big time flip-flopper. Any thoughts?
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. Look here:
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Lone_Wolf_Moderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's a great site.
Why isn't this information getting out? Curse that liberal media!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Any 'flip flops" couldn't possibly match the lies that got us into Iraq
nt
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. Kerry has been consistent


Pre-Iraq vote 10/09/02:
Let me be clear: I am voting to give this authority to the President for one reason and one reason only: to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction if we cannot accomplish that objective through new tough weapons inspections. In giving the President this authority, I expect him to fulfill the commitments he has made to the American people in recent days - to work with the United Nations Security Council to adopt a new resolution setting out "tough, immediate" inspections requirements and to "act with our allies at our side" if we have to disarm Saddam Hussein by force.

If he fails to do so, I will be the first to speak out. If we do go to war with Iraq, it is imperative that we do so in concert with others in the international community. The Administration has come to recognize this as has our closet ally, Prime Minister Tony Blair in Britain. The Administration may not be in the habit of building coalitions, but that is what they need to do - and it is what can be done. If we go it alone without reason, we risk inflaming an entire region and breeding a new generation of terrorists, a new cadre of anti-American zealots - and we will be less secure, not more secure, at the end of the day, even with Saddam Hussein disarmed. Let there be no doubt or confusion as to where I stand: I will support a multilateral effort to disarm Iraq by force, if we have exhausted all other options. But I cannot - and will not - support a unilateral, US war against Iraq unless the threat is imminent and no multilateral effort is possible.

And in voting to grant the President the authority to use force, I am not giving him carte blanche to run roughshod over every country that poses - or may pose - a potential threat to the United States. Every nation has the right to act preemptively if it faces an imminent and grave threat. But the threat we face, today, with Iraq fails the test. Yes, it is grave because of the deadliness of Saddam Hussein's arsenal and the very high probability that he will use these weapons one day if he is not disarmed. But it is not imminent. None of our intelligence reports suggest that Saddam Hussein is about to launch any kind of attack against us or countries in the region. The argument for going to war against Iraq is rooted in enforcement of the international community's demand that Iraq disarm. It is not rooted in the doctrine of preemption. Nor is the grant of authority in this resolution an acknowledgment that Congress accepts or agrees with the President's new strategic doctrine of preemption. Just the opposite. This resolution clearly limits the authority given to the President to use force in Iraq, and only Iraq, and for the specific purpose of defending the United States against the threat posed by Iraq "and" enforcing relevant Security Council resolutions. The definition of purpose circumscribes the authority given to the President to the use of force to disarm Iraq because only Iraq's weapons of mass destruction meet the two criteria laid out in this resolution.

Mr. President, Congressional action on this resolution is not the end of our national debate on how best to disarm Iraq. Nor does it mean that we have exhausted all our peaceful options to achieve this goal. There is much more to be done.

The Administration must continue its efforts to build support at the United Nations for a new, unfettered, unconditional weapons inspection regime. If we can eliminate the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs through inspections whenever, wherever, and however we want them - including in presidential palaces -- and I am highly skeptical we can given the Iraqi regime's record of thwarting U.N. inspectors in the past - then we have an obligation to try that course of action first, before we expend American lives and treasure on a war with Iraq.
http://www.seanrobins.com/kerry/kerry_senate_2002_10_09.htm


Pre-invasion 1/23/03:
As I have said frequently and repeat here today, the United States should never go to war because it wants to, the United States should go to war because we have to. And we don't have to until we have exhausted the remedies available, built legitimacy and earned the consent of the American people, absent, of course, an imminent threat requiring urgent action.

The Administration must pass this test. I believe they must take the time to do the hard work of diplomacy. They must do a better job of making their case to the American people and to the world.

I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/issues/kerr012303spfp.html




Yesterday:
In response, Kerry, distinguishing between invading Iraq and authorizing the action said, ''Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it was the right authority for a president to have." Kerry has said the decision to invade rested with the president.

Then, in his most direct challenge to Bush about the war, Kerry listed four questions for the president, inquiring about prewar intelligence, postwar planning, the lack of efforts to bring other nations into the war as allies, and why Americans were misled about the war.

And unlike Bush, who never mentioned Kerry by name during his New Hampshire campaign stop, the Massachusetts senator said, ''My question to President Bush is: Why did he rush to war without a plan to win the peace? Why did he rush to war on faulty intelligence and not do the hard work necessary to give America the truth? Why did he mislead America about how he would go to war? Why has he not brought other countries to the table in order to support American troops in the way that we deserve it and relieve a pressure from the American people?

''There are four not-hypothetical questions -- like the president's -- (but) real questions that matter to Americans, and I hope you'll get the answers to those questions, because the American people deserve them," Kerry said.
http://tinyurl.com/3k2js




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Lone_Wolf_Moderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Great work.
This really does lay everything out for you. The thing is, Republicans like to use soundbytes out of context to make him appear like a flip-flopper. One thing that needs to be stressed: The distinction between the Iraq War resolution vote, and the vote to go to war. Kerry never voted to go to war. He voted for the authority to use force if absolutely neccessary, as he should have.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. The republicans are lying
Edited on Wed Aug-11-04 08:27 AM by emulatorloo
Kerry has been consistent. . .a lot of spin yesterday based on misleading headlines, not what Kerry said.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. Please, you're worried because of a Karl Rove desperation hit job??
* bamboozled the Congress and most Americans with his lies. Also, Kerry just voted for authorization, and gave a personal caveat that * should use this vote to send inspectors in, and only go to war under the auspices of the U.N. * ignored all these factors and blasted his way into a non-threatening sovereign country. The results have been disastrous, and * OWNS THEM. Kerry is NOT complicit in *'s crimes.

It is a huge political mistake, imho, for the * thugs to be emphasizing Kerry's vote on Iraq. All it does is keep the Iraq fiasco, with its national and international nightmarish consequences, in the public eye. We should make no mistake that the public blames * and his crowd for Iraq. They led us to war on the basis of lies and spin. The media widely covered all the lies, hoping no doubt, that it would help * win public approval and raise his job approval ratings. Had the whores known the ultimate outcome of this ill conceived invasion, they probably would have underplayed the scam, fearing it would come back to bite * in his sorry arse. But as a result of the whores' mistake, these lies have been well covered, and many Americans remember falling for them. * will be held responsible for Iraq, and his numerous other hideous policies and decisions, on November 2nd.
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Lone_Wolf_Moderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I don't even know why I was so worried...
it's really easy to debunk this "documentary" if you take the time to. The Republicans are counting on people not having the time or the inclination to check between the lines, much like their attacks on his voting record on defense.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I get down very often about all this.
So much is at stake, and we're battling not just *, but the American media, that's it's inevitable we feel anxious. :hug:
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Any thoughts? Yes.
Quit wringing your hands.

:eyes:
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-11-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why should we disuade your hopes? Oh, sorry... your fears?
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