Just A Random Thought On Swiftboat Vets for Truth

[ProfessorGAC]

I've saying this for the last several weeks here at DU, but the new commercials seem to reinforce it.

What kind of moron criticizes a veteran of a hot war because he wasn't wounded BADLY ENOUGH? Even in these ads now, the moron doctor says it was a superficial shrapnel wound.

Now even assuming that a combat surgeon would have rememberd the extremely minor wound he claims, this many years later, isn't the doctor saying that he wasn't wounded badly enough?

That being said, if he had a piece of shrapnel in his arm, no matter how big, no matter how deep, wouldn't that mean that Kerry was somewhere where shrapnel was flying around at near supersonic speeds?

Lastly, if these republican activists are trying to besmirch Kerry with this nonsense and nonsequitur, where are the Dem attack dogs pointing out that in order for this to even be a controversy, Kerry had to be where bullets and shrapnel were flying, where ambushes occurred, and where guys got blown off boats by mines.

When one compares that to Li'l Georgie learning to fly a useless fighter jet protecting the skies over Texas and Alabama (or maybe not) it would seem that these guys are not only snakes, but stupid snakes, to boot.
The Professor

[priller]

1. It's not supposed to make sense, just provoke an emotional reaction

The main reason these vets are willing to lie about Kerry is because they're still pissed at him for his anti-war stance when he got back. Still, 30 years later. There's no sense or logic to it.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. I Guess My Picque, Is Directed At. . .

. . .the strategists in the Kerry camp who haven't come up with a response, in public, that make these guys look as incredibly stupid as they are.

It would seem to be easy, based upon the points in my first post.

In addition, i would ask these SBVfT guys one question: "The military saw fit to honor Mr. Kerry on 5 different occasions. That's the military's responsibility and duty. So, why do you respect the military so little?"

The Professor

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProfessorGAC]

14. Next!

You call these debate points? Give me a break. First, my service has nothing to do with anything.

Kerry served IN A WAR ZONE! If your background is what you say it is, you understand the difference. Flying a trainer jet over Texas is not the same as being in a situation where there are bullets flying and shrapnel screaming.

Now, the trainer jets do not fly over Mach 1. That's ridiculous. They're 550 knot planes! Get your facts straight before you make contentions you can't support.

Also, the days of flying a fighter jet at near mach speeds stopped being a moment to moment death defying event about the time Chuck Yeager hit Mach 2 back around 1950. So, i would suggest that a TRAINER jet would be far less dangerous than being in a hot zone in an active war. It takes the logic of a cantelope to figure that out.

Your 20 men were folks that were in Vietnam when Kerry was there, but NOT one of them served directly with him. However, the members of Kerry's direct crew all stood up and said that he did act with valor, with distinction, and did do the things reported. So, you decide. Guys who were really there say it did happen, and guys who were somewhere in the country at the same time say it didn't. Again, simple logic dictates that eyewitness accounts carry more credence, because in a court of law, every prosecutor and every defense attorney knows that is the most credible of witnesses.

Now, also take into account that these "credible" men are financed over 80 cents on every dollar by a republican activist from Texas. (Look it up. Those are the facts!) So, it should create, from any thinking person, a serious and prolonged "Hmmmmmm?" Are these guys really interested in truth or is this totally politically motivated? If it's the latter, then one could infer that they are indeed lying for political gain.

The guys who stand up for Kerry aren't financed at all. What motivation would they have for saying he did those things? Well, i would surmise, none at all, except that they were there, they saw him act heroically, and are willing to stand by a guy they saw do heroic things. The difference in motivation is a fair standard to measure these two differeing POV's. It absolutely must be used in any valid measure of the differences.

Last Point: You say your dad was there. Good for him! You say he stayed 5 years and he waived his right to be sent home. Also, good for him! But, these supposed veterans for truth aren't really disputing the fact that he was there and he was wounded. They claim the wounds weren't bad enough. A guy got shot at, got hit at least 3 times that we know of, and it's not good enough. A little tough to swallow when the competitor wasn't getting shot at in any way. It's the illogic and duplicity on which i'm commenting, not military regulations.

Let me finish by asking a question: Do you really believe that it's just as dangerous to fly a trainer jet over open range, 20+ years into the jet age, as it is to be in a combat zone during a live fire fight? If you have the background you claim, there is only one answer to that question.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

15. Just As I Thought

Not really interested in debate. Just tossing a grenade and fleeing.

Brave, brave soldier, that!
The Professor

[Bandit]

16. I doubt you are who and what you say

You don't sound sincere. I am a Combat Vet and I call BS on your post.

[lunarboy13]

17. Republican Spin

Point 1: Bush was FOR the war in Vietnam, yet he chose not to fight in that war. This is cowardice at its most extreme.

Point 2: Anyone who claims that Kerry was awarded his medals in error calls into question every single medal the U.S. Navy awarded in Vietnam. For, if the Navy did not fully investigate the actions which merrited John Kerry a bronze star, then we cannot accept the Navy's record of ANY medal it awarded during that conflict.

Point 3: Kerry was ambivilent about the Vietnam War, yet he volunteered to fight in it.

Point 4: Bush went AWOL -- he couldn't even serve his whole term in the Texas Air National Guard.

[emulatorloo]

6. Rove money buys a lot of false outrage. . .and fake doctors EOM

[Brotherjohn]

2. Exactly. I just thought this morning how absurd this is. It's gone so far

... that we're becoming numb to it, and just letting it happen. He's a F***ing WAR HERO, for chrissakes!! They're questioning "how bad" his (3) Purple Heart wounds were?!?! Three years ago, I never would have thought it possible. It's just INSANE!

If the same thing was done to a McCain or another Republican war heros (I know, there are so few of them), could you IMAGINE the OUTRAGE? Imagine if "Repsonsible Fighter Pilots Against George H.W. Bush" started questioning Bush I's flight downing in the Pacific ("He did it b/c he knew he'd run for President one day!"). Imagine if "WWII Vets for Honesty in Claiming Hand Injuries" started asking Robert Dole "What's behind the pen, Bob?!"

That's why I posted this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=613619

[DebinTx]

3. Absolutely correct

What republicans don't understand is that every time they denigrate Kerry's service record, they besmerch the record of all the other combat vets who also received wounds and/or medals.

They continue to dig themselves a deeper grave.

[CityZen-X]

5. Stupid Snakes Indeed!

But remember that these SS are manufacturing reality for the stupid. Stupid is as stupid does! We smell the Bu$h*t, but the mindless fux that eat their crap are the ones who should be tested for insanity.

[ProfessorGAC]

8. Like I Said To Priller

But, where is the democratic response pointing out the absurdity, stupidity, and duplicity.

Why aren't these guys asked "Why do you hate the military?" The only logica reason why they would be saying these things is they hate the military, who awarded Kerry all those medals.

If it's not the reason, then they admit they're telling lies to get Kerry, and destroying their own act.

Lastly, where are the responses showing the difference between a "not so bad" purple heart, and flying a plane over Texas during a time of war?
The Professor

[chiburb]

7. There you go making sense again...

I suspect that other than the Rabid Right, most Americans have already seen through this crap or had the mental image of Kerry in 'Nam vs. AWOL Bush. I think this backfires on them big time.

[ProfessorGAC]

9. I Hope You're Right

But, i'd like the democratic pundits, talking heads, and leadership to be on TV and radio pointing out these absurdities. Then, i'd be more comfortable with your conclusion.
The Professor

[Norquist Nemesis]

10. Can't disagree with you on that, but why

aren't we out in force putting pressure on the Media (print and electronic) to make a choice. A) Quit giving this proven liar air time (he is a "trial lawyer don'tcha know ;) ) or B) Provide the same exposure for the unexplained absence in Bush's service until it's fully disclosed.

I think the Kerry campaign choosing not to attack gives them the high road for supporters to counter with. It shuts up veterans pretty darn quick that are trying to use it; worked with my dad.

Every time the media gives this POS one second of exposure they should end each piece with "Questions still remain unanswered concerning a period of President Bush's duty. The White House has not fully disclosed all documents on the issue."

[jayctravis]

11. he was there...

and he got injured. THREE TIMES.

He was performing duty and he could have gotten killed. They removed shrapnel from his arm. The fact that he was where shrapnel was exploding and didn't get injured more is a HAPPY thing.

Where are George's purple hearts?

[Bandit]

13. Any wound in Vietnam no matter how slight was life threatening

Vietnam was a very dirty environment and staff was rampant. Jungle Rot was everywhere. Tetinus and Cholera were real factors. What the hell is wrong with these people? I would bet if they stepped on a nail they would rush right to the emergency room. I would not like to meet any of these guys for fear of how our encounter may turn out. I don't care for phonies and that is what they are. I doubt if any of them ever saw any real combat or they would know better.