Tell me what I'm missing: Pfleger is a white Catholic who did a guest sermon at Trinity.

[Buzz Clik]

Why is this supposed to reflect on Obama?

[Avalux]

1. Because the MSM says so.

Obama is a member of a church of thousands; this guy does a guest sermon and the press holds Obama accountable. Ugh. x(

[atreides1]

2. Because

It's Obama's church!!! Nobody else who attends services there matters.

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. He has close ties to the guy from his Chicago days

and, it is Obama's church.

And, I think the question is that Obama has gone to that church for 20 years. They did not JUST start this divisive, outrageous rhetoric, so, is Obama who is attempts to present, or is he like the other members of the church who shout "Amen" at the divisive talk?

[AngryAmish]

5. Obama earmarked money for Pflager's church.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

10. link?

n/t

[BobbyVan]

13. Boom

"Typical of Mr. Obama’s earmarks was a $100,000 grant for a youth center at a Catholic church run by the Rev. Michael Pfleger, a controversial priest who was one of the few South Side clergymen to back Mr. Obama against Mr. Rush."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/us/politics/11chicago.html?sq=pfleger&st=nyt&scp=2&pagewanted=all

[Buzz Clik]

19. So, it wasn't quite what you suggested, was it.

[BobbyVan]

29. I don't catch your drift. Bottom line: Obama sent taxpayer $ to help this clown spread the word

Let's hurry and nominate him before someone turns over another rock and it's too late!

:sarcasm:

[Buzz Clik]

34. You don't know the difference between a youth center and a church?

Get out much?

[BobbyVan]

38. Can you read???

"youth center at a Catholic church"

[sui generis]

41. the short answer my friend to your question

no he caint.

[Buzz Clik]

59. tsk tsk.

Just can't help yourself. Always the insults.

You made a baseless accusation, and now you're trying to get out of it by getting ugly.

[Raineyb]

81. You mean like Senator Clinton did to a foundation headed by the pastsor of a local church in NYC

And the pastor there just happened to endorse her?

Like that?

Regards

[Zueda]

21. Just what we needed...another youth center.

oh the humanity!

[NotThisTime]

25. Damn youth centers in the center of the violent urban areas... Don't build 'em

[ShortnFiery]

48. Yes in the RW world of the GOP, DLC and M$M people are ONE-DIMENSIONAL

:eyes:

We all know *others,* some of them are our close relatives who have "backward" if not overtly prejudicial views about *certain groups* of people.

YET, these *same individuals* may be very kind hearted and giving otherwise to those less fortunate than themselves.

People are Multi-Dimensional and their entire "heart and soul" can NOT be summed up within a few sound bytes.

I would rather have a President who can *see the good* in those who have other faults, than PURITY PUSHERS, and self-righteous candidates who wouldn't even listen to their underlying concerns which has helped FORMED the irrational prejudice in their views.

People who express prejudice are NOT *inherently evil* - It's their ACTIONS that belie their soul, not their rhetoric ... we need someone who UNDERSTANDS the complexity of The Human Condition.

We need Barack Obama because he can TAKE "the good" without OBLITERATING the whole person. That's a special person ... a Great Leader.

Personally I'm digusted with all the demonstrations of "self-righteous indignation" from the GOP, DLC, HRC and her surrogates.

"WELL, I NEVER!?!" Bullshit! I bet you have - and often. :evilgrin:

[stray cat]

71. Obviously you were not raised in the projects of Chicago

those inner city neighborhoods have the world at their fingertips - what privileges!

[keep_it_real]

43. Pastor Got $1.5 Million in Clinton Earmarks Before Endorsement

-snip-

(CNSNews.com) - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) secured more than $1 million in federal funding last year for a Harlem-based non-profit whose leader gave her presidential campaign a major endorsement last weekend.

Clinton -- who is aggressively competing for the black vote with her chief rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) -- touted the endorsement of Rev. Calvin O. Butts III, a prominent black leader and pastor of one of the oldest black churches in America, the Abyssinian Baptist Church of Harlem.

more here:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200801/POL20080124d.html

[Goblinmonger]

51. but, but, but, but.... n/t

[Shae]

70. Butts has actively campaigned for her . . .

and chastised blacks in his community for supporting Obama.

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. You want is so sad: they way everything Obama does is parsed

and distorted by his supporters and given the very best interpretation they can possibly muster--to the point of lunacy.

And everything Clinton does is parsed and distorted by Obama's supporters and given the worst possible interpretation they can possibly muster--to the point of lunacy.

There must be alot of pretzels out there.

[Goblinmonger]

52. How about the Clinton funding

of this guy up thread about two posts?

[cliffordu]

84. OMFG IT'S POLITICS!!!

A youth center. In the worst fucking neighborhood in all of Chicago.

I guess this is going to do him in after all.

Is Hillary still available??

[hokies4ever]

62. What about Hillary's association with an accused rapist

by not divorcing him. She's been an enabler of Bill's 'womanizing'.

[KittyWampus]

4. Scott McClellan

[Max_powers94]

6. If I live near this church I would be there every sunday

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

8. Well, it would depend on the quality of their coffee...

That's how I judge all faith traditions.

[JVS]

12. Lutheran, huh?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

27. LOL!!

I've got one of those "Gourmet Lutheran Coffee" mugs.

It's Heavenly!

[myrna minx]

46. LOL!

I've spent too many days drinking weak, weak Lutheran coffee. :rofl:

[JVS]

49. I think it varies by congregation, event, and individual.

My grandparents drank coffee all day, but they only set up the filter once. So the morning pot was strong, but subsequent pots got weaker and weaker as they just kept running water through the grounds. So if people are economy minded, coffee can get weak.

But a deluxe event: wedding, funeral, confimation, baptism, Christmas etc. is likely to be accompanied by egg coffee and stronger brews in general. As well as ham sandwiches with butter on both the top and bottom roll.

[Max_powers94]

15. Jamaican Blue Mountain Blend mmmmm

[Jersey Devil]

16. Catholics don't get coffee

You get a very boring ritual culminating in communion, a few minutes at best of a "sermon" that is usually totally boring and uncontroversial, shake each others' hands, then leave. It would be highly unusual to have a church social afterwards.

That's why this guy was so amusing. Not because he was funny at all (I didn't think he was - thought he was a jerk), but because this is never, ever done by Catholic priests. It was like a kindergarten teacher showing up for class dressed as a gypsy and doing the dance of the seven veils.

[Buzz Clik]

23. Yeah, I've about kindergarten teachers.

They sometimes make cameo appearances in Girls Gone Wild.

[JerseygirlCT]

93. Yes. True! We had a priest who totally endeared himself to us

kids in my youth by simply mentioning "Peanuts" every once in a while. Boy, he was a crazy guy, huh?

In the Episcopal church now, you feel anti-social if you don't at least eat and talk a bit before you go. And dessert on Sunday morning? Who can say no?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

11. for sure. in many churches, people are falling asleep in the pews

not in this one.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

7. cause the MSM is running campaign ads for Clinton pro bono

and the phony outrage over Father Pfleger's "comedy routine" is part of
a Clinton engineered commercial.

And if you haven't seen the video, Pfleger is priceless and totally accurate.
And hilarious!

Clearly he was aiming for humor and he achieved that goal.

[NashVegas]

9. Who Broke This?

Anyone know?

[slinkerwink]

24. No Quarter, the racist Anti-Obama site

[Buzz Clik]

28. I notice Michelle Malkin is all over it.

Funny how the Clinton camp keeps cuddling up with unsavory types.

[sui generis]

20. phony outrage?

I don't like it. Nor do I like the fact that Obama has to keep apologizing, very weakly I might add, for his associates' and supporters' comments is starting to wear on me.

It was a disgusting performance, as was the supportive laughter and clapping, and anyone who thinks it wasn't isn't worth the time of day in my book.

Where are our fucking manners? It's embarrassing.

[Buzz Clik]

26. Get over it. This doesn't even begin to compare to Geraldine Ferraro's routine.

Every campaign is saddled with a few loons. It happens.

[sui generis]

36. get over it?

Okay. I'm over it. Your meaningful words have changed my world. Do you think Hillary's supporters will be particularly warm to "get over it"? It was disgusting, I'm sorry I forgot what time it is. I still have some sense of decency, and I'm not that insecure that I must refuse to express it so I can suck the koolaid.

Are you really that stinking arrogant that you are sure BO absolutely doesn't require anyone's vote to elected but yours? If you truly believe that he is the Chosen One, then you better start working to make sure he stays the Chosen One. I am certain the white haired white guys who vote are going to vote for the white haired white guy, which, incidentally, is why Turd Blossom and Rupert Murdoch/Fox News are so eager to see him prevail in the primaries.

Sorry if I offended you, but hey, get over it. It's what's for breakfast.

[Buzz Clik]

60. Another round of insults. What exactly about this scares you so very much?

You are making a huge deal of this, but you flatly refuse to say why.

Curious.

[sui generis]

64. because I'm a freeper and mole and a spy

and I'm here to disrupt.

Sorry I fucking hate subtlety. I'm not making a big deal out of it, any more than I beat my wife.

You, however, are minimizing it. I wonder why that is? What are you so afraid of?

[Buzz Clik]

67. Not working.

This thread was a question about why this is a big deal. You say it's because where there's smoke, there's fire. But you won't say what the fire is.

Instead, you try to wiggle out of your comment by telling me it's my problem.

Six times now: what is the fire? What should we be fearing?

[sui generis]

72. I do not beat my wife

I said, observationally, where there is smoke there is probably a fire.

I am saying that Occam's Razor offering simplest correlation of observed data indicates that it is likely that BO approves of this tactic.

The first split on that correlation for me is: either he knows these people are out there and he approves, or he doesn't and he really IS that naive.

Neither likely "fire" is positive. There. Now call the authorities. I don't even have a wife.

[windbreeze]

86. In my neck of the woods....

it sure isn't playing the way you called it...I was in a small grocery store with several of those white haired, white guys, who don't think very highly of Hillary either, that she's over emotional, ran a shoddy campaign, and is anything but presidential material(that's their words, not mine)...they were shaking their heads and laughing out loud....and you know what...??? it surprised the hell out of me too, so maybe you shouldn't be so sure that your candidate is the "chosen one" either..(I'd like to know who started the "chosen one" meme, it's nothing, if not disgusting and insulting, but then I'm sure "they" knew it was, that's why it was started)

I wonder if some weren't more interested in making history, than they were in actually getting a particular person elected..I have a bigger question, is anyone asking why we haven't secured the vote yet??I'd have thought that would have been the very biggest goal, before this election time came around...but I guess not...we wouldn't want any distractions that might really be just as important, if not moreso, than who becomes the "chosen one"....seems to me, that securing the vote was ultimately much more important than any other part of the election.....wb

[Bake]

98. What? You mean we HAVEN'T secured the vote yet?

That ol' Howard Dean's just doing such a bang-up job. Some DUers are busy blaming Terry McAuliffe for not securing the vote, and now you're telling lme that Howard Dean hasn't either?

I'm shocked, I tell you. SHOCKED!

Bake

[windbreeze]

99. you are being facetious, right?...

maybe we're all playing the same game....wb

[SaveAmerica]

14. That pulpit has cables that lead directly to Obama's head...

Clearly the pulpit is trying to rule the world.

[my3boyz]

17. Because Hillary and the media say it does....Everything everyone says is Obama's fault!

He controls every word that comes out of every supporter's mouth!

[sui generis]

30. where there is lots of smoke . . .

probably a fire.

Maybe he should rally his so called supporters and discuss manners, civility, and something like senatorial decorum?

I'm sure there is an analog to the expression, "god, save me from your followers" that might be applicable here. If he's as blameless in this as everyone is naively willing to believe that tells me 1. you don't agree with the pastor (you earn a point), and


2. we may actually agree (you earn another point) that the ugliness needs to stop.

If everyone's crystal ball says you can seat this guy in the general election without Hillary's supporters, then I have a lottery ticket I'd like to sell you.

-sui

[Buzz Clik]

32. A fire? What fire? Please be really specific, okay?

[sui generis]

40. it's a saying

It's the folksy side of Occam's Razor. I'm sorry if wasn't specific enough for you, but get over it.

[Buzz Clik]

57. It's not just a saying. It means that smoke is a warning of an impending fire.

Figuratively and literally. I'm sure you weren't referring to Catholic priests burning down the Trinity Church (literal translation). So, what figurative meaning were you implying? What "fire" should we be fearing?

[sui generis]

66. I think you and I need to avoid each other

You love to put words in my mouth and I love to tell you the words that are coming out of my mouth and exactly what they mean, and for some reason you seem to believe you know what I'm saying better than I do.

We disagree. That is all and forever. I do not beat my wife. I stand behind the Occams Razor statement. I can't make it any simpler for you, it would be beneath me and insulting to you.

[Buzz Clik]

73. So, you spew cliches that have no meaning in this context? Bizarre.

[sui generis]

74. GOOD FUCKING LORD!

I can't imagine someone could be that stupid so I have to assume you are faking it. If you are not faking it, I apologize for insulting you.

[Buzz Clik]

75. More insults, still no explanation.

This isn't my problem. You've been given ample opportunity indicate what you mean, and you refuse to say.

[sui generis]

77. I had your number a long long time ago.

I'm not repeating myself for you. Even if I said "it's blue!" you would say I hadn't said what color it was. I repeat. I'm sorry if I offended you, but only if you really are that stupid.

[Buzz Clik]

92. There's no number to be had. You were caught making a hideous suggestion...

... but you didn't have the spine to follow through.

Racism is ugly in any form. From someone parading as a Democrat it's inexcusable.

[sui generis]

101. what in the fuck are you talking about

You did just call me a racist though. What race do you think I am? Just curious. Please copy and paste and point out where I was being racist and any other evidence you might have as to my racial origins. I am waiting for this one, and it's big pile of shit I just invited you step in if you're stupid, which means you certainly will.

You know Buzz, you don't have any character flaws. You are a character flaw. I see you have such a huge following here, and greatest respect from everyone so I am so DREADFULLY sorry I forgot to scrape my head on the floor when I bowed to your august opinion of anything. Normally when I see a lone loser out there I think it's my duty to try to build bridges and to try to meet somewhere in the middle.

I'm human, you're human, we all read according to our personal biases. I wonder at your singular antipathy towards me, which brooks no agreement from you ever. In fact now that I've said that you'll probably say ya don't hate me. If I say it's blue, you say it ain't or even more ludicrously that I never said it was a color at all. The point of your tactic is to get me to defend whether or not I said it was a color at all rather than what color it was. That is SO HIGHSCHOOL DEBATE, and so transparent that I genuinely feel bad for you.

I genuinely wish we could get along better, for what it's worth. I love to fight though (figuratively, to clarify for the utterly stupid), and that's my character flaw. I view it as exercise and sparring practice, not as a fight to the death, which is quite different from some of the people who think they are fit to challenge. In the real world I have done martial arts forever, if 25+ years counts as forever. It's a sport fought with the equally trained, not a reason to fight, and I would never hurt somebody who wasn't equally trained, or in an unfair fight. Now that was an analogy, not a threat. The analogy is that in the real world, I am equally adept at the verbal fight; it's not what I do for a living, just for entertainment.

I am full of myself and I don't care what anyone thinks about that. That's not a flaw, I've earned the right to say so, because I'm also still learning and growing and willing to adapt what I know about the world under the principle that once the deck has been shuffled and dealt, it is also necessary at some point to pick it up and evaluate your hand. If you are an amateur and you have a good hand, play it well or get out of the game. Leave the exercise of skill in a subtle game to the better trained exit early keeping your pot.

Having said that, you are not fit to challenge me. If you keep throwing yourself at me, I'm going to assume you're doing it because you are strangely excited by interacting with a brutal top daddy, and that's just gay dude. And before you go there, I can say that because . . . . I am queer and I have a sense of humor.

Please find some other beautiful man to go all goo goo over.

[my3boyz]

79. I don't give a crap about Hillary supporters who are so BITTER

that they won't support Obama! Vote for McCain! Stay home! I don't care! However, I DO hope all of you that would vote for McCain because you are pissed that Hillary did not get the nomination feel the pain from his decisions! I hope you all feel the pain of the high gas prices, more conservative Supreme Court,loss of home,loss of job, lack of healthcare, etc. If you are going to vote for the guy that is COMPLETELY opposite of your candidate just because Hillary did not win then you deserve what you get.

[sui generis]

80. brilliant and typical

so you don't give a crap if Obama doesn't get elected. That IS what you just said.

Seriously, and without further picking a fight, if you really believe this candidate walks on water why are this candidate's supporters so insecure?

If we are going to win by getting a democrat into the oval office, we by god need to not "don't give a crap", or the only reason we won't have that candidate in office will rest squarely on the shoulders of both of the ugliest kind of Obama and Hillary supporters.

I am amazed how childish this election is compared to four and eight years ago. It's like highschool among the supporters of both, not grown up politics.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. Not "supposed to", but why for some it "might"...

And I am only trying to answer your question, I am not pushing this viewpoint:

It provides another window into Trnity Church, and the view it gives to many Americans could be unsettling. All most people know about that church is what they see and hear in the media, including video tapes of parts of some controversial sermons that Reverend Wright gave there. Now they see video clips of another sermon that was delivered at Trinity Church. A common theme is a highly charged discussion of race relations in America. Some may agree with the sentiments expressed, others not, but clearly Barack Obama is carrying forth a different type of message about the future of race relations in America than that conveyed by these video clips.

If Pflegger was a white Catholic who had only endorsed Obama, that would mean one thing. The association between them would only be as strong as a political endorsement. The potential negative blow back for Obama here regards the reputation of the Church that he has belonged to for twenty years. It was led by Wright. It still is inviting speakers like Pfleger to their pulpet. Pfleger was given a very warm introduction. He was called a dear friend of Trinity Church. His remarks were very positively received. This reflects on the congregation and the congregation reflects on Obama since he chose to be in that congregation for twenty years where some will assume these types of sentiments are deeply rooted. If some Americans are upset by those sentiments, it therefor makes it a little harder for Obama to now preach racial unity to them, there is a little more basis for doubt.

[Buzz Clik]

22. Hm. I understand. I guess. It seems to be more reflective of a bored media.

So, in the 20 years that Obama has been attending the church, we now have video of three sermons that raise eyebrows.

I attended a church for about 15 years, and I never heard a single word on any Sunday that provided any inspiration on any subject. I guess that makes me dull and dreary by association.

[ShortnFiery]

58. Yes, the social gospel is often unsettling - but Trinity doesn't require "loyalty oaths"

to all that is said from the pulput.

We should NOT place our middle class WHITE standards ON inner city churches (despite the ethnic mix).

When the social gospel is preached, it's like "a presentation" - take what works and set aside the rest.

I wish my liberal priests at my parish would get "fired up" once in awhile, but they dare not. Why? Because of anal-retentive and self-righteous people who CAN'T ACCEPT controversial views.

You want our country to continue down an AUTHORITARIAN PATH where only "bland" gospel is preached, then continue with the bullshit known as "feingning self-righteous indignation."

This Priest made a point. You don't have to like it, but it is REAL, not some authoritarian ass-kisser spewing the same old "status quo" - "everything is FINE" talking points.

I want all views, even ones I don't agree with. Our media has HATE TV and RADIO in the form of FOX, but Heaven forbid if we allow those "LITTLE PEOPLE" (no political power) to give THEIR opinion. :(

[Tom Rinaldo]

69. I loved liberation theology

I became tuned into that back in the 80's when I worked as a community organizer for a progressive branch of Catholic Charities in San Francisco. I had a chance to meet an El Salvardorian priest who was personally instrumental in exposing Archbishop Romero to the teachings of liberation theology. Though I am not sure if there is a commonly defined understanding about what constitutes the "social gospel" I get the concept, and support it.

The only reason why we are talking about this here now though is because Barack Obama chose to pursue his life mission through the arena of politics, and somewhat unlike preaching, politics has a more clearly defined viability threshold. One must win elections in order to be a politician. So we are discussing the politics of this now, not the inherent spirituality and social change message.

[Fredda Weinberg]

31. You remind me of my dead relatives, who didn't recognize the significance

of German hate speech. Not us, they said ... we're the assimilated Jews, as German as they are.

Boy, did they learn a lesson.

But here we are again ... looking the face of evil and not agreeing on whether it matters.

[Buzz Clik]

33. AND HERE WE HAVE IT! THE BIG WINNER. INVOKING THE NAZIS!!!!!!

Ding ding ding ding!!!

So, you equate some wild-eyed white Catholic priest with the Nazis. Well, isn't that special.

And just who do you think the Trinity Church will be carting off to the ovens?

[ErinBerin84]

35. wow

I think what the Father said was horribly divisive, inappropriate, and disrespectful. That being said, I am also stunned by what some people are "stunned by" these days. But I have to say, the german hate speech thing kind of stunned me....

[Fredda Weinberg]

39. When I was young, Crown Height erupted in racial violence. I was

in the middle. Bias crimes are back up ... there are demonstrations by Orthodox Jews ... how am I supposed to feel?

[ErinBerin84]

45. I understand how you must feel.

But honestly, it did stun me when you said that, lol. Thanks for the context at least.

[ShortnFiery]

55. Probably a little bit safer than other Americas feel driving thru certain neighborhoods while BLACK.

:shrug:

[Fredda Weinberg]

90. So violence against my people is OK w/you because Whites attack

Blacks? Funny logic ...

[ShortnFiery]

53. What HARM has this lowly priest of ONE Parish caused WHITES?

Were white people LYNCHED? Were white people denied JOBS because of THIS PRIEST?

No, it's not racism unless it's spoken from "a position of power."

The truth hurts. And part of the reason we're giving Miss Hilly "a pass" on all sorts of lies and delusions she's spewing is *exactly* because she's WHITE. It sounds horrible, but it's the TRUTH unvarnished.

[sui generis]

76. Fredda, my dead relatives speak too.

Quite frankly, there is no winning with the you know who's here. They've never lost anything more significant than a family pet and have certainly never confronted real human ugliness anywhere but in a safe on line blog.

I think we should let these kids keep sucking the crack pipe and Darwin will take care of the rest.

[scheming daemons]

95. Wow... a Roman Catholic priest says some bad things = HOLOCAUST in the making!

Hyperbole much?

[demokatgurrl]

37. I'm suspicious. I almost think this guy wanted to

sabotage Obama. Or, he's collossally stupid, REALLY fucking stupid.

[npincus]

42. because the intellectually lazy, gossip-not-news MSM can't wait to revive Wright

and pastorbate instead of covering the damning sunstance of McClellan's book.

How charming to see CNN & MSNBC get their agenda from FUX.

[Marrah_G]

44. it should not, but it will

[ShortnFiery]

50. Yes, if HRC and the GOP get their way during this silly season - character assassination

by association will stick.

It's a disgusting sight to see. And it reflects poorly on our sense of humanity. :thumbsdown:

[Shae]

54. Because they don't have anything else. nt

[ashrob123]

56. Because Obama is responsible for every single word that comes from the mouth

of his supporters as soon as they step in front of a mic. People have no minds of their own and therefore when they speak they are always mouthpieces for Obama because obviously he thinks this exact same thing. Republicans are going to use this against them because it's much worse to laugh at her because she's using white privilege instead of using her feminine guile to sway voters. Because anyone that speaks against Clinton is both racist and sexist regardless of whether or not their comments were racist and/or sexist. Because anything against queen bee must be analyzed to the nth degree but references to the assassination of possible presidential nominees is just a slip of the tongue.

:sarcasm:

[ShortnFiery]

61. And HRC and the GOP get to remind us peons that "Obama's BLACK and HRC is NOT"

:nuke:

[Buzz Clik]

63. Indeed, indeed. And we've seen it here.

[Fresh_Start]

65. IT doesn't.

it just proves that religion itself is a mockery of what it professes

[GTurck]

68. Priests don't do sermons....

they do homilies and the distinction is significant. A sermon is an admonishment, teaching, or consolation chosen by a minister for his congregation it is not necessarily connected to the Bible but instead looks for support in the Old and New Testament. A homily is based entirely on the Missal readings for that day. The constraint is that throughout the Catholic Church the same passages are read on the same day. The progression is Old Testament reading; a psalm; a reading from the New Testament and lastly a reading from the Gospels. All have a thematic connection.
Pfleger is a Catholic priest living on the south side of Chicago ministering to a largely black Catholic parish. Parishes are part of dioceses which mainly are "political - administrative" divisions. Catholics do not change church because of the priest in the same way that Protestants do; if a priest is not working out or becomes a problem the Bishop or cardinal of the diocese removes them but the congregation does not leave.
I don't know what Pfleger said but his training is not in sermons as free-wheeling rhetoric but in imparting what is meant in the Bible to his congregation. Some are much better at this than others. My guess is Pfleger was not up to the task and badly imitated what he thought was the way to sermonize.
I agree; what has this got to do with Obama? If we excoriate a candidate for what others say or do just because the favor or don't favor that person who will be left? Have we devolved back to McCarthy and his finding fault with everyone but himself?

[Critters2]

94. In the United Church of Christ, of which Trinity is a member congregation,

a sermon is understood to be an exposition of a biblical text. It is not just an opportunity to stand in public and say whatever you want. It is expected to be expounding a text, which is read before the sermon.

I would love to know what text lends itself to mocking a woman who teared up when discussing her love for her country.

[GTurck]

100. That's why...

Pfleger has been told to be quiet by Cardinal George. I agree having now seen the tape that he was way over the line - especially from a white priest who pastors a mainly black parish. We don't need to be mocking and disrespecting anyone. Leave that to 'swift-boaters'.

[Douglas Carpenter]

78. don't even try to understand it -- it's called irrationality

:crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly:

[Overseas]

82. Because Senator Clinton is DESPERATE TO BASH OBAMA and the Superdelegates haven't stopped her. //nt

[redqueen]

83. Because desparate times call for desparate measures...

and both Hillary's campaign/supporters and the GOP/M$M are desperate to stop Obama.

Sadly, they STILL don't get that not that many people are going to fall for the three-card-monty bullshit anymore.

[dchill]

85. Because the DNC Rules and Bylaws committee...

meets tomorrow to very likely, in effect, give the nomination to Obama. That's too soon!
;)

[Buzz Clik]

87. that seems to be the strategy.

[barack the house]

88. Exactly you'd think Obama ran the church it is another lose connectionlike ayers who is a

reformed character. Obama is almost being linked to all negativity in the world which he has no hold over.

[Cheap_Trick]

89. because that's the endgame for HRC

THAT was the best they could come up with for one last-ditch effort.

How sad.

[Buzz Clik]

91. You'll find the strategy lightly disguised as furrowed brows of concern.

"Where there's smoke, there's fire." That's code for, "Dem folks is scarin' me. Don' dey scare yew too?"

It is sad to see one of our own pull this. And to consider just a few short weeks ago she was acting as if "core Democratic ideals' superceded the quest for office.

[havocmom]

96. Politics of perception. We perceived HRC figures a tragedy would be good for her career, we objected

so, another non related to Obama attack on Obama to take the heat off the really offensive person who said something profoundly tasteless. Much more comfy for Clinton if the chatter is about blaming Obama for something he didn't say but some white guy did.

[indimuse]

97. Obama and this Pfleger...go way back, they donate and raise money FOR EACH OTHER!

He also...was on the campaign trail WITH OBAMA in Iowa! He was the shoulder Obama seeked after the Wright Story broke. Was on his Web Site until LAST NIGHT( Spiritual Counsel..Guidance...) on...and on.... but I don't know....you tell me!